Breva 1100 Gearbox Replacement - AKA the Guzzi from hell

[BrevaIsTheName]

Good afternoon, all! I am new to Moto Guzzis and the board in general, and have come seeking your advice. Please excuse this wall of a post, and I humbly ask that you hear my story:

    About two months ago, I bought a Moto Guzzi Breva 1100. We shared 1,000 wonderful miles together before the shift return spring inside the transmission failed, falling into the gears and locking/grenading the gearbox. (Yes, catastrophically, at almost 50mph). This being my first guzzi (but not at all my first bike), I took the bike to the first guzzi mechanic willing to help me sort the bike out-- the previous owner was "gracious" enough to supply me the transmission from a 2V Norge for free to swap in.





$2,000 and a few days later, my Brevonna was back on her feet again, if not a little weary. The new box seemed to shift okay, but made a distinct warbling noise from the input shaft side of the box-- ONLY when accelerating or maintaining speed. Slowly, I kept riding to determine whether this was just another case of the infamous "standard guzzi noises". All seemed to be going well...  then yesterday, something loudly CLUNKED near the input shaft side of the box. Now my gears just sound 'wobbly', like they are not meshing well or being carried adequately at all. I suspect the point of failure to be a bad input bearing and will be changing the trans oil soon-- but ultimately I don't know how many miles are on this box and want a proper Breva box back in to have this whole bike "done correctly". There were also issues with my mechanic: missing bolts, kickstand not being fastened down upon delivery, etc...





In short,  a series of bad decisions were made in haste due to my anxiety about working on this bike myself when my previous experience has been exclusively working on chain-driven Japanese machines. I would like to have this job done right.

I have purchased a new, tested transmission from SunCoastCycleSports, and am armed with a motorcycle lift, torque-wrench, all the metric sockets and tools needed (so I believe), a label maker, spare parts catalog and factory service manual.

My background is in engineering. I am not a complete idiot, but far from experienced. I can do basic maintenance like adjusting the valve lash and checking/replacing all three fluids in the bike, but that's about as far as said experience lies.





My question, dear guzzisti, is whether this is a job I can take on-- and if so, what I need to know about it. It looks like (despite their strange design) crabbing the frame by the motor mount brackets is still viable on CARC frames, so I shouldn't have to completely drop the engine... but what should I worry about? How can I accomplish this? Is the service manual missing any critical information? I will take any advice or chastisement you folks would care to throw my way.

Grazie Mille,
- BrevaIsTheName

[guzzisteve]

Can't crab a CARC bike, frame wraps around & under the trans. Motor & trans comes out together. That is the quickest way. Been doing them 16yrs. No easy way.

[BrevaIsTheName]

yikes... good to know, thanks for the reply. Any tricks a novice should know before attempting? I won't lie, that sounds pretty daunting as I've never had to pull a motor completely before.

[guzzisteve]

Swing arm, pipes off & TB's loose from head. Take off breather LH front on cover, enough room to go forward, tilt & roll back of trans over the lump sideplates are bolted to. Then lift frame in back & slide motor & trans out to one side. Unplug & disconnect everything

Get the service manual, it's all covered.

[BrevaIsTheName]

Awesome! I have the service manual. Just checking, no "special" tools or major gaskets needed? I don't see any gasket between the gearbox and the motor, is that correct? Sorry for the barrage of questions, but I really appreciate your responses. 

Here is my incredibly basic shadetree setup right now:

[guzzisteve]

I have a copy of the Tune up Guide for Shade Tree Mechanic, it was put out by MCNOC for tuning up a Guzzi.
You will be OK

[BrevaIsTheName]

just found that.. this is awesome!! Thank you GuzziSteve! I'm stoked. This is my first big project and only makes me want to keep the bike for life if all works out :)

[guzzisteve]

I still have 2 of the new ones I bought in 80's. Going to work, have a 03 Stone to install clutch & fix oil leaks and put back together. Enjoy.

[Huzo]

For heaven’s sake don’t do it outdoors.
At least get a garden shed or something, give yourself a fighting chance at success.

[Pescatore]

You're a brave soul for doing this outside. Not impossible, but definitely an additional obstacle for a first timer.

 I'm guessing the Breva is a Norge w/o fairing.   If so, you might want to do other tasks, like air filter, inner spark plugs, generator belt... check oil pressure sensor for leaks, clean the engine.
All reasons for doing this indoors.
Please post your progress.

[BrevaIsTheName]

I wish I had space anywhere indoors. Sadly this is the only option for me at the moment short of dragging the bugger into my kitchen and going at it there... at least snacks wouldn't be a problem!

I have two jacks coming to support the transmission under the lift as the frame comes off. New fluids as well, and to top this adventure off, it's looking like I'll be grabbing a 750 Breva this weekend for an irresistible deal. ($1,000 and in need of "only" a new dash.. but we will see).

Either way, I promise to keep you all entertained throughout this. If anyone familiar with CARC guzzis has any input or tips facilitating easy remove and reinstallation, please chime in!

[moto]

Only a kitchen? Here's inspiration for you!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b91iJMd1Nio

[n3303j]

When I moved to the new place there was no garage for the first year.
This $400 12'X15" tent with polytarp laid as a floor was the temporary solution.
Great garage built and tent now houses the lawn tractorand related devices.

[Moparnut72]

I once replaced a broken valve torsion bar in my buddy's 450 Honda in my kitchen. I was of course single and lived in a small mill house with no garage let alone much of a yard. We left on a 3 week ride through the north west with no further issues. Couldn't say the same for my BMW though.
kk

[guzzisteve]

When I moved to the new place there was no garage for the first year.
This $400 12'X15" tent with polytarp laid as a floor was the temporary solution.
Great garage built and tent now houses the lawn tractorand related devices.

This &  4 x 8 sheet of plywood to put bike on. No loosing parts in the grass.

[DoubleGuzzi]

Good ideas from n3303j & guzzisteve 

[BrevaIsTheName]

Great ideas! I think I will survive without the tent THIS time, but will put it on the list of things to buy before the fun purchases (exhaust, beetle map... various goodies). Thank you all for the ideas. I think I'll throw down plywood and a large tarp to watch the screws! Hopefully everything should be here by this weekend so stand-by before the updates really start coming :D Will post pic of the "operating room" shortly

[kballowe]

HEY ! 

What's all this business about working on motorbikes in the kitchen ?

[BrevaIsTheName]

...And so it begins! Last night was the first day of working on the bike. Lots of prep work (thank you to the gent who suggested I use a tarp... it would have been inconceivable to do this "raw" on the grass, lol). After about 4 good hours yesterday I got the tank, fuel lines, and airbox system off. Everything is being labelled as I go, which is great because I am learning (a) where the vacuum lines go, and (b) how many of them were improperly connected or installed by the previous owner and possibly even the mechanic who I last visited. Glad I am doing this myself.

The workstation:






Had to stop to admire that gorgeous CARC drive line (the Breva covers/rearsets really take away from its glory):




And behold, the litany of labels which will allow me peace-of-mind once the time comes to reinstall everything:




I will also be checking the swingarm bearings while I am in here. The threads on the swingarm pin castle nut (the one that "preloads" the bearings and requires the special tool) are a little chewed up, but I think they will be OK once I clean everything. I plan to clean as much as I can with a damp rag and IPA (rubbing alcohol), then re-grease all surfaces with some lithium grease. Removing the CARC driveshaft is not a fun job but went alright once I had a buddy hammer the yoke while I pulled it.

Here is the current state of the Bike:




Tonight, I will be disconnecting everything and hopefully lifting the frame off entirely. I will see about getting the new gearbox installed to the motor before the end of the night.

Folks who've done this before, how is the best way to lift the frame off the engine? Can you treat it like a tonti and "wheelbarrow" it off? Or should I be focused on lifting the bike down. Any things to watch out for?

As always, I welcome your feedback, laughter, and even your insults.

[BrevaIsTheName]

Oh! And not to Hijack my own thread, but I was able to pick up the baby Breva last week as well: She's received new fluids and runs good, I think. I've never owned a small block so I don't know how slow they are "supposed to be" in comparison. I'm sure the crowd of people who I just offended will be happy to chime in on that fact. Perhaps the TBs need balancing?

It's very fun. I understand why people say the 1100 Breva feels a little less raw than the unchanged SB platform. Both will be kept for some time, but I will be doing a lot more cosmetic work to the 750. That will get its own thread in time!







 

[guzzisteve]

If you take all the exhaust off you'll see the frame member under trans, you move motor forward , then twist & tilt back of trans over the mess to the outside.

[BrevaIsTheName]

Thanks guzzisteve,worked like a charm. Long night! New trans installed. Longer writeup and buttoning her up tomorrow.

Oil in the old gearbox looks... Fine? I'm surprised. It was making some truly awful noises- clacking, random chops like things are binding... Yet totally clear. Maybe that collapsed Belleville washer issue from the early CARC model runs?

Pics below:

[Perazzimx14]

Can't crab a CARC bike, frame wraps around & under the trans. Motor & trans comes out together. That is the quickest way. Been doing them 16yrs. No easy way.

Crab/crabbing: Act of fishing for crabs.

Crib/Cribbing: Refers to a temporary structure of stacked blocks (typically wood, but also metal or composite) used to support a load, especially after it has been raised or lifted. It's essentially a method of providing a stable and elevated base for heavy objects, often used in conjunction with lifting equipment like cranes or jacks. Cribbing is used to stabilize loads, distribute weight, and ensure a safe working environment.

[Pescatore]

Now the gearbox matches the head covers.
Great progress.  I'm cheering you on.

[moto]

Crab/crabbing: Act of fishing for crabs.

crab 1
(krăb)
n.
4. A machine for handling or hoisting heavy weights.

I think we are OK here. To crab is to lift a heavy object as with a crab. To crib is to support a heavy object as with a crib.

Now let's practice our new vocabulary in a sentence:

"He crabbed the frame after cribbing the motor on a stack of dictionaries."

It is true the cited dictionary does not list this sense of crab as a verb, but the appropriateness of the usage seems clear. We are not talking about supporting the frame, we are talking about lifting it.

[/schoolmarmmode]

[SemperVee]

*Very impressive first time attempt even against not having garage to work in.  Bravo!
 

[guzzisteve]

Your finger nails are dirty like mine!! Ha Ha ha

[blackcat]

Good job, certainly doesn't look like fun and I hope to not have this kind of fun with my Norge.

[Dave Swanson]

*Very impressive first time attempt even against not having garage to work in.  Bravo!

I 2nd that.  Impressive enthusiasm.  I see red suspenders in his future!

[BrevaIsTheName]

Thanks, all! Today we had a small hiccup but luckily it was resolved quickly. If another unsuspecting novice ever decides to be as stupid as me and attempt this, I need to make the (now obvious) note that the clutch pushrod is NOT part of the gearbox.

I had the whole frame back on with the mounts torqued and I-Marked when I bled the clutch to discover the lack of... clutch! It was like grabbing a fistful of rock; the lever had no travel whatsoever, leading to a small freakout thinking I had bought a defective gearbox. (If this sounds naive to you, you are reading the post of a guy who could barely adjust his valve clearance a year ago). 

using the parts explosion in the MG spare parts catalog, I pieced together the fact that the rod shown in the clutch assembly is in fact, NOT something that stays in the transmission all the time (again... duh.)



The rod here (and its bushings/thrust bearings) were not included in my new gearbox, so I was able to transfer it over from the old box by pulling the old rod with a pair of pliers and collecting the assembly as it came out. The ONE thing that worries me here is that I didn't see the input bushing on the end of the rod (12 in the parts diagram). I am **assuming** it stayed pressed into the input gear side of the box (big unlabelled part of the pic, for the uninitiated), and got close-ish to verifying this by pulling the OTHER shaft from my original failed transmission. (The fact that I have more than 1 failed transmission still being hilariously painful, but I digress.) So two separate data points confirm that the install is correct.




Anyways, to make a long story short, my dear Brevonna has her clutch once again. Unforecasted rain has halted work for today, but my goal is to have the old girl completely buttoned up by the end of the weekend.