Bezzi / Barr Photoshop Phantasy Pthreadfest

[rocker59]

Very tasty!

M

Now, all you need to do is adapt Harley XR1200 bodywork to your Breva...

[rocker59]

There is at least one V7 Cafe Classic running around with custom headpipes and the Triumph mufflers.

This was posted in the "V7 Crap" thread.  I PMd the guy over at ADVrider, but no response:

Got a message from the "Cafe Scrambler" guy:

"Mike,
The cans are Scrambler but the head pipes are custom made by a local fab shop in town.
Worked out pretty good.
Owen."

[Mile High Guzzi]

I love my 1200 Sport, and it's the best all-around bike in my stable, but I can think of other (sub 500 lb) platforms I would turn into a scrambler if I expected to venture off-road much.  Physics is physics.

[gentlemanjim]

I don't see that you have a problem.  Put on some dual sport rubber, get some custom bent headers 2:1 (maybe a quota geader will fit) and put on a suppertrapp muffler.. Search ebay fr Quots bits that can make the conversion (front wheel, etc.

[Calimero]

looks like a smaller Stelvio is finally in the making.

http://motosketches.blogspot.com/2014/11/moto-guzzi-stelvio-940.html

[arveno]

I like it,




keep dreaming....

[Cage Free]

Why would they bother? Can't possibly be much lighter and would have less power and torque. Looks like a photo shop job to me. Griso exhaust?

[Vasco DG]

The

Pushrod

Engine

Big

Block

Is

No

More

Get

Over

It!!!

[Dogwalker]

Looks like a photo shop job to me. Griso exhaust?

Griso exhaust, Honda Crosstourer saddle, tank and headlight.

A smaller Stelvio is probably coming, but it will never be made with the 940 engine.

[Demar]

That's still too big and too heavy. It should be based on a "new" V7 790 or 820 small block motor.

[rocker59]

another Bezzi cut and paste photoshop job.

just what the world, and the internet needed...   :-\

[pauldaytona]

When we get a small stelvio it will be like the old 750 ntx in more modern clothes, 48hp.

[ChuckH]

... a small stelvio it will be like the old 750 ntx in more modern clothes, 48hp.

That will be more than adequate to meet my touring needs.  I rode a lot of miles on a 650 Strom and it had plenty for the mountains, even heavily loaded.

[oceanluvr]

Here is the page with a literal translation....

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmotosketches.blogspot.com%2F2014%2F11%2Fmoto-guzzi-stelvio-940.html

[rocker59]

Here is the page with a literal translation....

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmotosketches.blogspot.com%2F2014%2F11%2Fmoto-guzzi-stelvio-940.html

Pure fantasy.

For me, this is an example of the bad part of the internet.  Anyone can post up a photoshop image, dream up some text, and then people believe that this is some sort of company prototype, rather than the fantasy artwork of a dreamer who isn't even connected to the company.

[Vasco DG]

Exactly. A waste of electrons.

With the V7-II the factory now has a powerplant virtually ideal for a 'Mini Stelvio'. Ideally it would be a bit shorter and dry-sumping it would make sense but cost money but stick it in a decent frame with modern suspension and it would be ideal for people who don't suffer some form of *Inadequacy* issues.

Six speeds means better flexibility of gearing. The current power output is quite sufficient to propel it down the road at an adequate velocity and it is simple and virtually unburstable. What's not to like?

Some serial masturbator's wet dream cobbled together with photoshop does the brand no favours and only goes to show a hopeless dedication and rusted-on inability to accept change and dare I say it improvement!

Pete

[Mal Wright]

That's still too big and too heavy. It should be based on a "new" V7 790 or 820 small block motor.

Yep. Use the small block pumped to 850cc with the drone heads, single throttle body, dry sump and as light as possible. Target weight around 170kg dry and power around 75hp (should be achievable). Keep the pushrods and the ability to service on the side of the road with just an allen key and a shifter. Run it on 91 octane. Guzzi's attempts in the past like the NTX 750 were always measured by the Dakar results, which did not reflect the true abilities of these machines in my opinion. If they kept developing the format and sort out the glitches, they would have been epic bikes.

Moto Guzzi need to look again at the market for a middle (light) weight adventure shafty. With more power, modern electronics and better suspension, a small block would make a cracker of a desert tourer for 'round Australia / Africa or back-road touring. Bull dust and sandy trails will kill chains and sprockets rapidly, and there are plenty of great trails just like that in Australia. Up the West Australian coast through Lancelin, Jurien Bay and along the Zoigtdorp Cliffs to Steep Point in Shark Bay. Along the Gibb River Rd through the Kimberleys to the Bungle Bungles and many great water holes. Along the electrical access track to Cooktown and on to Bamaga on the Cape York Peninsula. I doubt many people would venture down these trails on a Stelvio, 1200GS or even the KTMs. You want something light and powerful, and with a rear weight bias to keep weight off the front wheel.

The ideal bike for me would fit neatly between the single cylinder bikes and the heavy twins, which has been an elusive formula for most manufacturers. They either get the light weight with no power, or good power but too heavy. I think MG are missing an opportunity with the V7 to make a niche in this space.

[Demar]

Yep. Use the small block pumped to 850cc with the drone heads, single throttle body, dry sump and as light as possible. Target weight around 170kg dry and power around 75hp (should be achievable). Keep the pushrods and the ability to service on the side of the road with just an allen key and a shifter. Run it on 91 octane. Guzzi's attempts in the past like the NTX 750 were always measured by the Dakar results, which did not reflect the true abilities of these machines in my opinion. If they kept developing the format and sort out the glitches, they would have been epic bikes.

Moto Guzzi need to look again at the market for a middle (light) weight adventure shafty. With more power, modern electronics and better suspension, a small block would make a cracker of a desert tourer for 'round Australia / Africa or back-road touring. Bull dust and sandy trails will kill chains and sprockets rapidly, and there are plenty of great trails just like that in Australia. Up the West Australian coast through Lancelin, Jurien Bay and along the Zoigtdorp Cliffs to Steep Point in Shark Bay. Along the Gibb River Rd through the Kimberleys to the Bungle Bungles and many great water holes. Along the electrical access track to Cooktown and on to Bamaga on the Cape York Peninsula. I doubt many people would venture down these trails on a Stelvio, 1200GS or even the KTMs. You want something light and powerful, and with a rear weight bias to keep weight off the front wheel.

The ideal bike for me would fit neatly between the single cylinder bikes and the heavy twins, which has been an elusive formula for most manufacturers. They either get the light weight with no power, or good power but too heavy. I think MG are missing an opportunity with the V7 to make a niche in this space.

Excellent... I hope it comes true. Many of us have been waiting for this. I'd buy one tomorrow if it were available.

[Murray]

Yep. Use the small block pumped to 850cc with the drone heads, single throttle body, dry sump and as light as possible. Target weight around 170kg dry and power around 75hp (should be achievable). Keep the pushrods and the ability to service on the side of the road with just an allen key and a shifter. Run it on 91 octane.

Moto Guzzi need to look again at the market for a middle (light) weight adventure shafty. With more power, modern electronics and better suspension, a small block would make a cracker of a desert tourer for 'round Australia / Africa or back-road touring.

The ideal bike for me would fit neatly between the single cylinder bikes and the heavy twins, which has been an elusive formula for most manufacturers. They either get the light weight with no power, or good power but too heavy. I think MG are missing an opportunity with the V7 to make a niche in this space.

So just completely re design the motor gearbox frame and final drive system, people seem to forget the humble XR600 air cooled lump that was traditionally used for this kind of thing was 150kgs for only an extra 20kgs you want an extra cylinder shaft drive fuel injection and ABS pump let me guess you also want the frame to be steel so you can weld it. Although they must stick with the antiquated cooling and valve actuation system you also want pretty big HP and it to run effectively on kerosene.

I should also point out these are the style of bikes people traditionally don't buy the BMWDakar 650 Yamaha 660 Tenre etc will all do what you describe with their modern single cylinders are not the vibrating paint shakers of old. If the market niche does exist Guzzi are deliberately ignoring because it would be a massive amount of design work to hit 2/3rds of what you have specified. Yet if they only hit 2/3rds of what you specified there would be a bunch of people saying I won't buy one because it hasn't got 5 more hp 5 less kgs its water cooled, fuel injected, overhead cam etc etc.

I think they are right to ignore it the cost vs reward is simply not there. How many of the V7 Eldo/Ambo fans have run down to their local dealer and thrown a deposit down on the new 1400 version that will be arriving shortly, I doubt you'd need to take of your shoes to count them.

[leafman60]

So just completely re design the motor gearbox frame and final drive system, people seem to forget the humble XR600 air cooled lump that was traditionally used for this kind of thing was 150kgs for only an extra 20kgs you want an extra cylinder shaft drive fuel injection and ABS pump let me guess you also want the frame to be steel so you can weld it. Although they must stick with the antiquated cooling and valve actuation system you also want pretty big HP and it to run effectively on kerosene.

I should also point out these are the style of bikes people traditionally don't buy the BMWDakar 650 Yamaha 660 Tenre etc will all do what you describe with their modern single cylinders are not the vibrating paint shakers of old. If the market niche does exist Guzzi are deliberately ignoring because it would be a massive amount of design work to hit 2/3rds of what you have specified. Yet if they only hit 2/3rds of what you specified there would be a bunch of people saying I won't buy one because it hasn't got 5 more hp 5 less kgs its water cooled, fuel injected, overhead cam etc etc.

I think they are right to ignore it the cost vs reward is simply not there. How many of the V7 Eldo/Ambo fans have run down to their local dealer and thrown a deposit down on the new 1400 version that will be arriving shortly, I doubt you'd need to take of your shoes to count them.

Lol, that may be a little over pessimistic even for Guzzi.  Applying that sort of reasoning and we'd probably not have any of the new models introduced by Guzzi in recent years.

I dunno what's going to happen as far as new models.  We are lucky to have what we have.  But, I too would love to see and would buy a reduced-size Stelvio based on an upgraded small block engine.

During my recent lucky visit to the Guzzi factory and my meeting with the Production Manager for Guzzi, I specifically asked him 2 questions.

1.  Will there be an upgraded version of the V7 small block that provides more power? Before I finished my question, he was shaking his head in affirmation. He said they were well aware of the shortcomings of the V7 engine and how it compared to other 750-800 engines on the market.  He agreed that Guzzi needed to do something to upgrade the small block and smiled broadly as he said they were working on it.

2. I then told him that I and many others would love to see a baby Stelvio with that sort of motor.  Again, he smiled and said that he agreed and personally wanted such a bike himself. He again said that "they" were considering such a bike and the engineers were working on it.

"All of these things are great and good ideas and we are working on them but such major moves take time."


So, who knows, he may have only been trying to placate me and move on. On the other hand, I was at least glad to see that these two topics were familiar to someone high in the Guzzi hierarchy and he didn't say "Aw, wow man, we never have even thought about that."

.

[Mal Wright]

The following article shows a Paris Dakah version weighing 162 kgs dry, and without the benefit of modern electronics or construction. Although it does have a titanium pipe.

http://www.guzzi.com.au/baja/index.shtml

[Murray]

The following article shows a Paris Dakah version weighing 162 kgs dry, and without the benefit of modern electronics or construction. Although it does have a titanium pipe.

http://www.guzzi.com.au/baja/index.shtml

Never had any kind of emissions to actually meet and tended to tear the swing arm mounting points out of the rear of the gearbox.

[Dogwalker]

The NTX 650 actually weighted 182 kg wet (with 5kg of gasoline).
It's already a very low weight (almost incredibly low compared with others twin dirt bike) for a twin cylinder adventure bike, equipped with half fairing, 32l tank, rack, central stand and sump protection.
Is approximately the weight of a single cylinder XT660R, and less than a XT660Z Tenerè.

[Vasco DG]

Yep. Use the small block pumped to 850cc with the drone heads, single throttle body, dry sump and as light as possible. Target weight around 170kg dry and power around 75hp (should be achievable). Keep the pushrods and the ability to service on the side of the road with just an allen key and a shifter. Run it on 91 octane. Guzzi's attempts in the past like the NTX 750 were always measured by the Dakar results, which did not reflect the true abilities of these machines in my opinion. If they kept developing the format and sort out the glitches, they would have been epic bikes.

Moto Guzzi need to look again at the market for a middle (light) weight adventure shafty. With more power, modern electronics and better suspension, a small block would make a cracker of a desert tourer for 'round Australia / Africa or back-road touring. Bull dust and sandy trails will kill chains and sprockets rapidly, and there are plenty of great trails just like that in Australia. Up the West Australian coast through Lancelin, Jurien Bay and along the Zoigtdorp Cliffs to Steep Point in Shark Bay. Along the Gibb River Rd through the Kimberleys to the Bungle Bungles and many great water holes. Along the electrical access track to Cooktown and on to Bamaga on the Cape York Peninsula. I doubt many people would venture down these trails on a Stelvio, 1200GS or even the KTMs. You want something light and powerful, and with a rear weight bias to keep weight off the front wheel.

The ideal bike for me would fit neatly between the single cylinder bikes and the heavy twins, which has been an elusive formula for most manufacturers. They either get the light weight with no power, or good power but too heavy. I think MG are missing an opportunity with the V7 to make a niche in this space.

I always love this. How will it be achievable? Fairy dust? It ain't gunna happen with a small valved,Herron headed, air cooled motor.

Pete

[Mal Wright]

I always love this. How will it be achievable? Fairy dust? It ain't gunna happen with a small valved,Herron headed, air cooled motor.

Pete

Then we agree. I was thinking more like the heads off the drone engine developed for the US department of defence. They have the design already and with some R and D should be able to make it work for the road.

I think the original 4 valve 750s produced over 60hp in some variants, so its not such a leap to get 75hp from an 800-850 with fuel injection, ECU management and decent breathing. Cooling can be handled with an oil cooler. They just need to give it a try, but even if the power was just "as much as practicable" given air cooling constraints, then it could still be a terrific bike. And we could always apply some hotting up afterwards if they give us the right components to start with.

And regarding weight, I think the standard NTX 650s were around 165-170kg dry depending on the model (note the specs in one of the links), which lines up with around 180+kg fuelled and ready to go, which as stated is already amazingly light.

http://www.odd-bike.com/2014/04/moto-guzzi-v-twin-off-roaders.html
http://www.motorbikes.be/en/Moto_Guzzi_NTX_650_1993.aspx

No fairy dust required.

[AH Fan]

The

Pushrod

Engine

Big

Block

Is

No

More

Get

Over

It!!!

I'm betting there is a few thousand M/G owners that will disagree with that Pete.........    ;D
  Put me at the top of the list........

 ;-T

[Vasco DG]

I'm betting there is a few thousand M/G owners that will disagree with that Pete.........    ;D
  Put me at the top of the list........

 ;-T

They aren't making them any more. It's that simple. I never suggested that they won't be around for a long time. The old donk was a great motor but it was way past its use by date. Of the factory and brand was to survive it had to be replaced and it has.

I still have at least two pushrod big blocks and love 'em to bits but they aren't making them any more!

Pete

[Vasco DG]

Then we agree. I was thinking more like the heads off the drone engine developed for the US department of defence. They have the design already and with some R and D should be able to make it work for the road.

I think the original 4 valve 750s produced over 60hp in some variants, so its not such a leap to get 75hp from an 800-850 with fuel injection, ECU management and decent breathing. Cooling can be handled with an oil cooler. They just need to give it a try, but even if the power was just "as much as practicable" given air cooling constraints, then it could still be a terrific bike. And we could always apply some hotting up afterwards if they give us the right components to start with.

And regarding weight, I think the standard NTX 650s were around 165-170kg dry depending on the model (note the specs in one of the links), which lines up with around 180+kg fuelled and ready to go, which as stated is already amazingly light.

http://www.odd-bike.com/2014/04/moto-guzzi-v-twin-off-roaders.html
http://www.motorbikes.be/en/Moto_Guzzi_NTX_650_1993.aspx

No fairy dust required.

I sincerely doubt that the drone motor will make significantly more power, certainly no more than a good Lario. We'll know soon enough when Chuck gets his up and running.

As for the 4V 750's? They were the most dreadful grenades imagineable! Really, I was working on them when they were new. They would sometimes shed their exhaust valve heads within the first hundred miles!

As for the idea that if we 'Are given the right pieces to start with' you can hot it up with aftermarket stuff? How pray tell? There are some very skilled people who have been hotting up smallblocks for years and none of them have ever got anywhere near 85HP! It's more of the Fairy Dust I'm afraid. Even in the extremely unlikely event that someone did manage to drag that much power out of a Smallblock I doubt whether it would be even remotely reliable and it would be an unrideable pig in the lower rev range.

For me if they simplyut the single TB motor with six speed in a decent, modern frame equipped with real suspension as a Mini Stelvio I'd be all over it like a rash. You certainly don't need 85HP to tour anywhere on dirt or tarmac. Whatever the current 750 produces would be fine by me.

Pete

[Mal Wright]

Dusty, I want what you and Vasco are smokin' :)

I suggested 75hp because it would make a dream bike. A push for sure, but doable. The standard bike makes 50.

And Pete I am still agreeing with you. I doubt very much that it could be done with the standard heads, or two piece valves that broke in the first few hundred kays, or with poor oil flow or whatever else ailed the old models. But with some good design it *could* be done. Think about it this way, do you think Honda could make 75hp out of an 800cc air/oil cooled twin?

So I guess your comments are more about what Moto Guzzi are capable of doing than how unrealistic my suggestions are. What I am suggesting is what I see is needed to make a niche bike. A platform to build on.

Perhaps the fairy dust is in peoples eyes blocking their vision...

http://archive.guzzitech.com/photos/Charlie1.jpg

[jacksonracingcomau]

Moto Guzzi need to look again at the market for a middle (light) weight adventure shafty. With more power, modern electronics and better suspension, a small block would make a cracker of a desert tourer for 'round Australia / Africa or back-road touring.

Along the electrical access track to Cooktown and on to Bamaga on the Cape York Peninsula. I doubt many people would venture down these trails on a Stelvio, 1200GS or even the KTMs. You want something light and powerful, and with a rear weight bias to keep weight off the front wheel.

The ideal bike for me would fit neatly between the single cylinder bikes and the heavy twins, which has been an elusive formula for most manufacturers. They either get the light weight with no power, or good power but too heavy. I think MG are missing an opportunity with the V7 to make a niche in this space.

Those that do it, do it, million more pics of those saddlebags all over the world.

But fix the travel/weight problem with a drive box and I'll have one too, no need for any great power, light and no plastic sh#t to break much more important to me.