*California 1400 Merged Threadfest*

[jsh1120]

Maybe they bolted two V7c engines together

oo-oo, water-cooled transverse vee-four.
Haven't seen one of those since the Euro Ford/ SAAB 96 engine.  Bullet-proof old hoor, if you don't count the sprague clutch.

Had two of those. The last one eventually rusted into two pieces (the car not the motor) as a result of Michigan winter salt. As I recall the motor was a Ford 292 V-8 sawed in half. Rumor had it that the motor was adapted from an industrial engine used to pump water from Dutch windmills. Now THAT's an agricultural heritage for a vehicle.

[guzzisteve]

A California w/ the Big Bore kit like the BB1 most likely.

[jsh1120]

MMMMMM,sounds very tasty,maybe now that they intend to play with the big boys(road king,electraglide,goldwing etc)mandello might consider producing some accessories to personalise it(instead of the "what you see is what you get" way of thinking)and hopefully they  put some more thought into the design and quality of the bike(given the usual recalls of the previous models that has been released),besides I can't wait to see what colour it will be.

Actually, at 1400cc's, it would hardly be in the "big cruiser" league defined by the examples above. Not meant as a criticism by any means, but when I bought my 1520cc Valkyrie in 2002, it was still considered to be a HUGE engine, surpassed at that time only by the VTX and the then new GoldWing. Now, anything under 1600cc's is in the "mid-size" cruiser segment.

But keep the weight under 700 lbs and the MSRP under $16K, give it an easily detachable windscreen and passenger backrest, allow for luggage that looks well integrated into the design, emphasize its handling, and it may attract some interest from a market segment that hasn't considered a Guzzi.

[hareynolds]

Maybe they bolted two V7c engines together

oo-oo, water-cooled transverse vee-four.
Haven't seen one of those since the Euro Ford/ SAAB 96 engine.  Bullet-proof old hoor, if you don't count the sprague clutch.

Had two of those. The last one eventually rusted into two pieces (the car not the motor) as a result of Michigan winter salt. As I recall the motor was a Ford 292 V-8 sawed in half. Rumor had it that the motor was adapted from an industrial engine used to pump water from Dutch windmills. Now THAT's an agricultural heritage for a vehicle.

I too understand that it was (a) half a small block Ford (front half, I suppose, unlike the later SAAB 99 canted motor, which was the right half of a Rover 3500 V8 IIRC) and (b) indeed was an industrial motor typically used for water pumps (also welders, hydraulic power units, etc).

The ONLY problems with that car were the fiber cam gear (cheap and easy to replace, typically at 100K miles) and the idiotic sprague clutch, which was a hold-over from the 2-stroke (3 cyl) motor (I had one of the last Saab "Shrike" 95 wagons;  truly a horrible auto. Shrikes are birds that eat Beetles, get it?).

On the 2-stroke the sprague clutch allowed you to keep the revs up around corners, but the V4 had a great torque curve, so the only logic for keeping it was to prevent folks from losing front traction during engine braking. With the engine cantilevered out over the front wheels, this wasn't likely to happen, and the sprague clutch was just an expensive achilles heel.  If you could keep the body together (preferred technique: undercoat with used motor oil every fall, especially inside the rocker panels) that car would easily do 250K without pulling the heads.

Never heard the Dutch part of the story, but sounds plausible, as it was a German Ford motor.

[Seagondollar]

I had a Saab 96 and heard the V4 came from an English tractor.

And if you want a V4 motorcycle, buy a frikkin Honda.  The new VFR1200 has more bells and whistles than poor Guzzi could ever have. 

Now let us go back to our anachronisms. 

Greg - A Griso style frame on a Cali?  The mind boggles. 

[HDGoose]

Hope it has a realistic fuel tank.

[Greg Field]

Greg - A Griso style frame on a Cali?  The mind boggles. 

Yes, but with a feature I am not allowed to discuss. That's a hell of a good frame. And it's long. The Stelvio frame is based upon the Griso, too.  Basically, once the current Calis are done, there're four Guzzi frames: the Nuovo Tonti (Bellagio, which is the Tonti frame adapted to CARC), Tontino ("little Tonti" B750, N750, V7C), the B1100 frame (B11, Sp12, N12, all with intake under the tank), and Griso (G11, G12, St12, all with intake under the seat). Then, what might come next.

[pete roper]

oo-oo, water-cooled transverse vee-four.
Haven't seen one of those since the Euro Ford/ SAAB 96 engine.  Bullet-proof old hoor, if you don't count the sprague clutch.

which rock have you been under for the last twenty years? What is the ST 1000/1200 Honda if not a watercooled, transverse V4? :D

Pete

[Ragnar]

Maybe they bolted two V7c engines together

oo-oo, water-cooled transverse vee-four.
Haven't seen one of those since the Euro Ford/ SAAB 96 engine.  Bullet-proof old hoor, if you don't count the sprague clutch.

Had two of those. The last one eventually rusted into two pieces (the car not the motor) as a result of Michigan winter salt. As I recall the motor was a Ford 292 V-8 sawed in half. Rumor had it that the motor was adapted from an industrial engine used to pump water from Dutch windmills. Now THAT's an agricultural heritage for a vehicle.

The Ford V4 "Essex" engine was fitted to a van called a Transit, I had one it was junk. The motor was forever blowing head gaskets and flooding the cab with water. You also seemed to lose synchro on the gearbox on many of them.
 It was too low powered for some versions. A "Luton" Transit with the load area extending over the cab would only reach 50mph on a good day.
I don't know how it went elsewhere, but in the UK I reckon it was one of the worst engines and gearbox combinations Ford ever used.

[Yad]

Sweet!

I'm ready to check it out.  Could Moto Guzzi be so bold as to bring back the signature color of all time, Gialo Sole?   ;)
 

if you look at the parts manual, that's what they are calling the color of the V7 Cafe Classic.

[Atlanta Guzzi]

Sweet!

I'm ready to check it out.  Could Moto Guzzi be so bold as to bring back the signature color of all time, Gialo Sole?   ;)
 

if you look at the parts manual, that's what they are calling the color of the V7 Cafe Classic.

Sun Yellow? 

[Yad]

Sweet!

I'm ready to check it out.  Could Moto Guzzi be so bold as to bring back the signature color of all time, Gialo Sole?   ;)
  

if you look at the parts manual, that's what they are calling the color of the V7 Cafe Classic.

Sun Yellow?  

Really. From V7 Cafe Classic parts manual, pg 12:

"Fuel tank, yellow - - AUS-EU-J-UK -  y.so.   97892800XG4   1   DA009"

y.so. = yellow solar


Or, to find out another way:

Go to the V7 Cafe Classic page on the Moto Guzzi Italian site

http://www.motoguzzi.it/it_IT/prodotti/listino_prezzi/configurator_step2.aspx?id=206

then, go to the little boxes that show the choices, either white or "legnano", which is what the text calls the green color. Hold your cursor over the green without clicking, and "Giallo Solaris" pops up.

The white is called "Bianco Diamante"

[Atlanta Guzzi]

Sweet!

I'm ready to check it out.  Could Moto Guzzi be so bold as to bring back the signature color of all time, Gialo Sole?   ;)
  

if you look at the parts manual, that's what they are calling the color of the V7 Cafe Classic.

Sun Yellow?  

Really. From V7 Cafe Classic parts manual, pg 12:

"Fuel tank, yellow - - AUS-EU-J-UK -  y.so.   97892800XG4   1   DA009"

y.so. = yellow solar


Or, to find out another way:

Go to the V7 Cafe Classic page on the Moto Guzzi Italian site

http://www.motoguzzi.it/it_IT/prodotti/listino_prezzi/configurator_step2.aspx?id=206

then, go to the little boxes that show the choices, either white or "legnano", which is what the text calls the green color. Hold your cursor over the green without clicking, and "Giallo Solaris" pops up.

The white is called "Bianco Diamante"

Thanks for the insight!

I guess the sun comes in all colors?  ;)

[Yad]

yup. Must have been a very odd day in Mandello when that was named.
d

[cali]

[/quote]

Actually, at 1400cc's, it would hardly be in the "big cruiser" league defined by the examples above. Not meant as a criticism by any means, but when I bought my 1520cc Valkyrie in 2002, it was still considered to be a HUGE engine, surpassed at that time only by the VTX and the then new GoldWing. Now, anything under 1600cc's is in the "mid-size" cruiser segment.

But keep the weight under 700 lbs and the MSRP under $16K, give it an easily detachable windscreen and passenger backrest, allow for luggage that looks well integrated into the design, emphasize its handling, and it may attract some interest from a market segment that hasn't considered a Guzzi.
[/quote]The california cruiser is far from obsolete,let's call it "evolution".Give it a few years and it will be up there with the best of them although the frame may have to be lenthened a mite to allow for the bigger pots.

[rocker59]

The california cruiser is far from obsolete,let's call it "evolution".

Give it a few years and it will be up there with the best of them although the frame may have to be lenthened a mite to allow for the bigger pots.

Huh?

You want to expand on that thought?

[cali]

The california is finally growing up (slowly).If this model is successful market wise then who knows it could even be made bigger,say a 1600 or even an 1800,fit a full fairing and all the bells and whistles and market it as their flagship model like the goldwing.

[Kev m]

If this model is successful market wise then who knows it could even be made bigger,say a 1600 or even an 1800,fit a full fairing and all the bells and whistles and market it as their flagship model like the goldwing.

ICK  ::(

[cali]

If this model is successful market wise then who knows it could even be made bigger,say a 1600 or even an 1800,fit a full fairing and all the bells and whistles and market it as their flagship model like the goldwing.

ICK  ::(

Some might say ick Kev but they could carry on with the other cali variants like the stone,alloy etc and just make the top of the range cali into their flagship, that would give buyers a better choice in the cruiser range.JMHO ;D

[Kev m]

If this model is successful market wise then who knows it could even be made bigger,say a 1600 or even an 1800,fit a full fairing and all the bells and whistles and market it as their flagship model like the goldwing.

ICK  ::(

Some might say ick Kev but they could carry on with the other cali variants like the stone,alloy etc and just make the top of the range cali into their flagship, that would give buyers a better choice in the cruiser range.JMHO ;D

No to me the ICK really starts with the size 1400, 1600 or 1800 is a small car not a bike (TO ME).

[cali]

If this model is successful market wise then who knows it could even be made bigger,say a 1600 or even an 1800,fit a full fairing and all the bells and whistles and market it as their flagship model like the goldwing.

ICK  ::(

Some might say ick Kev but they could carry on with the other cali variants like the stone,alloy etc and just make the top of the range cali into their flagship, that would give buyers a better choice in the cruiser range.JMHO ;D

No to me the ICK really starts with the size 1400, 1600 or 1800 is a small car not a bike (TO ME).

Maybe just stick with the 1100 with all the bells and whistles,would that work?

[Kev m]

Tony - I don't doubt that there are people out there who want the bells and whistles and those types may want the 1400, 1600 or 1800...

...me, I'd be happy with the Bellagio, or with an 1100 or 1200cc 2V Cali - but I'm funny that way, I know what I need and excess is just excess.

Ya know what bells and whistles I like? I dig the clocks, temperature gauges and trip computers, maybe some easy accessories, an externally mounted oil filter and a decent alternator.

[donn]

No to me the ICK really starts with the size 1400, 1600 or 1800 is a small car not a bike (TO ME).

That's right, to you!  No need to deny motorcyclists their legitimate need for power, in case they're out there in the wind or something.  Or maybe really big guys who have trouble on the hills.

[rocker59]

The california is finally growing up (slowly).If this model is successful market wise then who knows it could even be made bigger,say a 1600 or even an 1800,fit a full fairing and all the bells and whistles and market it as their flagship model like the goldwing.

I curse the day that there is a "Moto Guzzi" in the same market niche as a Goldwing.

[Kev m]

No to me the ICK really starts with the size 1400, 1600 or 1800 is a small car not a bike (TO ME).

That's right, to you!  No need to deny motorcyclists their legitimate need for power, in case they're out there in the wind or something.  Or maybe really big guys who have trouble on the hills.

Thing is, if that's what the need/want, there are already plenty of options that cater to that taste.

As some point, perhaps attempting to meet such demands may stray too much from what makes a Guzzi special...

[Turin]

That's right, to you!  No need to deny motorcyclists their legitimate need for power, in case they're out there in the wind or something.  Or maybe really big guys who have trouble on the hills.

How big do you have to be to have trouble going up hills ? I'm pretty big, and my 850 T does just fine. If a really big guy means 300 + lbs., running a couple laps around the block a few times a week might offset the need for those exta cubic centimeters. ;D

[jsh1120]

The california cruiser is far from obsolete,let's call it "evolution".Give it a few years and it will be up there with the best of them although the frame may have to be lenthened a mite to allow for the bigger pots.

Are you talking about the engine or the rider? I'm under the impression that the displacement growth in cruisers is a result of the displacement growth of their market.

[RichEV]

A new Guzzi of l400 or l500 cc displacement, equipped like a Valkyrie Interstate less 350 lbs. of weight would be just what I would
want.. matching equipment fore and aft, a stylish bike with style less the bulk of the Interstate...Perfec t in my opinion....a long
distance cruiser with everything you need, and still a guzzi...like those full faired models in the l990s or so....Cal IIIs only complete.

And with a damn outside oil filter so we can change our oil quickly and filter at the same time....thanks...

Rich EV

[jsh1120]

A new Guzzi of l400 or l500 cc displacement, equipped like a Valkyrie Interstate less 350 lbs. of weight would be just what I would
want.. matching equipment fore and aft, a stylish bike with style less the bulk of the Interstate...Perfec t in my opinion....a long
distance cruiser with everything you need, and still a guzzi...like those full faired models in the l990s or so....Cal IIIs only complete.

And with a damn outside oil filter so we can change our oil quickly and filter at the same time....thanks...

Rich EV

I share the desire. Have to say, though, that shaving 350lbs off the weight of the Valk would be difficult. My guess is that 600+ lbs would be the lower limit. Bikes, much like the rest of us, have put on weight over the last thirty years, or so, that's difficult to shed.

[donn]

That's right, to you!  No need to deny motorcyclists their legitimate need for power, in case they're out there in the wind or something.  Or maybe really big guys who have trouble on the hills.

How big do you have to be to have trouble going up hills ? I'm pretty big, and my 850 T does just fine. If a really big guy means 300 + lbs., running a couple laps around the block a few times a week might offset the need for those exta cubic centimeters. ;D

Well, I really was only kind of poking fun at the people here who seem to feel Moto Guzzi will never get anywhere with motorcycles based on their inadequately powerful 750 small block.  But sure, sometimes you see some pretty big guys on motorcycles.  Maybe Moto Guzzi has been looking at actuarial statistics.