*California 1400 Merged Threadfest*

[WP2]

1400 sounds cool on it's face, but my 1056 Stone does just fine. Plenty of power rides well after sorting- what's more to want? I regularly "outperform" my buddies.

All I'd be looking for to opt out of the Stone before 100,000 would be a stronger alternator, more low end torque ( re: Harley) and better feedback thru instrumentation - beyond these my Stone makes me happy on the 700 mile days.

The big-un has to show me something very substantially different to cause me to look at moving to a newer model before this one is worn out.

I'm glad that the Guzzi minds are looking for market share thru cc's - we need the presence, but for those of us that are happy with Guzzi's, it's hard to preach to the choir when we're singing.

Walt

[rocker59]

1056 Stone?

[SidecarMike]

No to me the ICK really starts with the size 1400, 1600 or 1800 is a small car not a bike (TO ME).

That's right, to you!  No need to deny motorcyclists their legitimate need for power, in case they're out there in the wind or something.  Or maybe really big guys who have trouble on the hills.

Thing is, if that's what the need/want, there are already plenty of options that cater to that taste.

As some point, perhaps attempting to meet such demands may stray too much from what makes a Guzzi special...

Or, God forbid, make them successful.   ;-T

[Kev m]

No to me the ICK really starts with the size 1400, 1600 or 1800 is a small car not a bike (TO ME).

That's right, to you!  No need to deny motorcyclists their legitimate need for power, in case they're out there in the wind or something.  Or maybe really big guys who have trouble on the hills.

Thing is, if that's what the need/want, there are already plenty of options that cater to that taste.

As some point, perhaps attempting to meet such demands may stray too much from what makes a Guzzi special...

Or, God forbid, make them successful.   ;-T

Or God Forbid, make them the same as everyone else  ::)

[rocker59]

Tri-colore assless chaps...  I know a few wimmins I'd like to see in those!!!

[John in PA]

Maybe they bolted two V7c engines together

oo-oo, water-cooled transverse vee-four.
Haven't seen one of those since the Euro Ford/ SAAB 96 engine.  Bullet-proof old hoor, if you don't count the sprague clutch.

Bring the displacement per cylinder down a little (say 350 cc) and you'd have a pretty smooth little motor.
With watercooling, you might actually get it short enough to work.

Umm, I believe we're describing the power plant in the Honda ST1100 and ST1300.  And they are dandy engines.  I just hope if Guzzi makes it they don't hide it under a lot of plastic.  Oh, and they should make it with more "soul"  ( It's bound to have more "character" just cause it's a Guzzi.)

[cali]

Er,I think we are getting off the beaten track a bit.I did say in my original post that the "goldwing' type version should be marketed as their FLAGSHIP model,in other words still make the naked versions of the cali to complement the flash one(that way in theory it should keep just about every one happy)cos I know myelf that in 15-20 years time I'll be looking for a comfy tourer with all the gears.

[Ragnar]

I can't see the need for 1400 0r 1500cc.
Why not just produce a Cali with the Bellagio frame and the 4V 1200 engine?
Enough power and it would make a good tourer.
I don't want to see Guzzi produce a Gold wing or anything near it, excess for the sake of it just isn't the way Guzzi do things.
I don't want to spend ages finding out what about 20 or 30 different buttons do before I ride.

[Greg Field]

Photos showed me leads me to believe that Piaggio is smart enough to know that the new machine must have the larger alternator. That means the new machine cannot be based on the Bellagio, which has a frame that disallows this feature. All of the rest falls out from there.

[PeteS]

I can't see the need for 1400 0r 1500cc.
Why not just produce a Cali with the Bellagio frame and the 4V 1200 engine?

I was hoping they would do that the first time I saw the Bellagio. Guzzi will never make a bike that would appeal to the Goldwing crowd unless it was at least 4 cylinders, 1400 ccs and a larger more comfortable ride. They could make a bike to better compete with with the Beemer RT with just a few changes to the Norge like an integrated trunk with better passenger accommodations. For one up touring the Norge or EV is all you need but to take two people on 10,000 mile rides you need something with more space and luggage capacity, unless you are 19. Then a sportbike and knapsack will do. ;)

Pete

[ronjon]

I think Moto Guzzi is going in the right direction with a 1400cc machine.  Take a look at the competition, Harleys and Japanese tourers are all larger that that.  For example, Kawasaki released their new "flagship" in 2009.  Check out their marketing hype below.  Large engines are what riders want so Guzzi should try to capture some of this market.

2010 Kawasaki Vulcan 1700 Voyager ABS

Built for the touring rider who has to have it all—and look good having it…

Flagship of the Vulcan® 1700 family, the Kawasaki Vulcan 1700 Voyager® and Voyager ABS come equipped with everything the serious touring rider needs to pile on the miles in comfort and style: a large frame-mounted fairing, amazing storage capacity, a sculpted touring seat, electronic cruise control, a premium sound system and a powerful long-stroke 1700cc, liquid-cooled, 52° V-Twin

 

[Dean Rose]

I think Moto Guzzi is going in the right direction with a 1400cc machine.  Take a look at the competition, Harleys and Japanese tourers are all larger that that.  For example, Kawasaki released their new "flagship" in 2009.  Check out their marketing hype below.  Large engines are what riders want so Guzzi should try to capture some of this market.

2010 Kawasaki Vulcan 1700 Voyager ABS

Built for the touring rider who has to have it all—and look good having it…

Flagship of the Vulcan® 1700 family, the Kawasaki Vulcan 1700 Voyager® and Voyager ABS come equipped with everything the serious touring rider needs to pile on the miles in comfort and style: a large frame-mounted fairing, amazing storage capacity, a sculpted touring seat, electronic cruise control, a premium sound system and a powerful long-stroke 1700cc, liquid-cooled, 52° V-Twin

 

Would I have to wear that costume if I ride one?

Dean

[ronjon]

I think Moto Guzzi is going in the right direction with a 1400cc machine.  Take a look at the competition, Harleys and Japanese tourers are all larger that that.  For example, Kawasaki released their new "flagship" in 2009.  Check out their marketing hype below.  Large engines are what riders want so Guzzi should try to capture some of this market.

2010 Kawasaki Vulcan 1700 Voyager ABS

Built for the touring rider who has to have it all—and look good having it…

Flagship of the Vulcan® 1700 family, the Kawasaki Vulcan 1700 Voyager® and Voyager ABS come equipped with everything the serious touring rider needs to pile on the miles in comfort and style: a large frame-mounted fairing, amazing storage capacity, a sculpted touring seat, electronic cruise control, a premium sound system and a powerful long-stroke 1700cc, liquid-cooled, 52° V-Twin

 

Would I have to wear that costume if I ride one?

Dean

Every bike will include a pair of tri-color ass-less chaps :D

[5154guzzi]

 I`d think that new 1400 8 valve motor would be very competitive regarding torque and hp as compared to the large cruisers out there. Too many folks ( not so much on this board ) are caught up with  the size matters issues. No cruiser can hustle thru the curves or twisties like a guzzi without shedding weight, metal bits sparks etc.

 The thought of that power plant in a sportier chassis, say a larger version of the V7 Cafe or maybe something even sportier is sure enticing.....

 exciting times !<divclass="msgbox">Nofilesuploaded!</div>

[jsh1120]

I can't see the need for 1400 0r 1500cc.
Why not just produce a Cali with the Bellagio frame and the 4V 1200 engine?
Enough power and it would make a good tourer.
I don't want to see Guzzi produce a Gold wing or anything near it, excess for the sake of it just isn't the way Guzzi do things.
I don't want to spend ages finding out what about 20 or 30 different buttons do before I ride.

I doubt that 90%+ of current Guzzi owners "see the need for 1400 or 1500 cc's," especially them fancy Europeans that show up here.  ;) Such folks, however, are obviously not the primary target market for such a bike. It's us overweight Americans who believe bigger is always better and for whom an 1100cc cruiser is a "midsize" bike that Guzzi is hoping to interest, I assume.

I'd be very surprised, however, to see MG try to emulate the Gold Wing in terms of looks or technological doo-dads. That's a market that Honda owns lock, stock, and barrel. And no effort to add buttons is going to overcome the advantage Honda has in terms of that amazing six cylinder GW engine.

What MG does have a chance of capturing, however, is the same market segment Triumph hopes to get with the new Thunderbird with a bias toward touring over bar hopping. As Greg notes, having an electrical system capable of running accessories is critical in that regard. So is a traditional look. And in that MG may have an advantage over Triumph in not having to hide a radiator somewhere. (A careful examination of the Thunderbird suggests Triumph spent considerable effort in diverting attention away from that component.)

Personally, I hope MG sells every example they can manufacture. The "halo effect" of a CalVin 1400 is likely to be substantial, I think. And since Aprilia has nothing at all in that market segment, I think it suggests a very smart corporate strategy.

[Ragnar]

I can't see the need for 1400 0r 1500cc.
Why not just produce a Cali with the Bellagio frame and the 4V 1200 engine?
Enough power and it would make a good tourer.
I don't want to see Guzzi produce a Gold wing or anything near it, excess for the sake of it just isn't the way Guzzi do things.
I don't want to spend ages finding out what about 20 or 30 different buttons do before I ride.

I doubt that 90%+ of current Guzzi owners "see the need for 1400 or 1500 cc's," especially them fancy Europeans that show up here.  ;) Such folks, however, are obviously not the primary target market for such a bike. It's us overweight Americans who believe bigger is always better and for whom an 1100cc cruiser is a "midsize" bike that Guzzi is hoping to interest, I assume.

I'd be very surprised, however, to see MG try to emulate the Gold Wing in terms of looks or technological doo-dads. That's a market that Honda owns lock, stock, and barrel. And no effort to add buttons is going to overcome the advantage Honda has in terms of that amazing six cylinder GW engine.

What MG does have a chance of capturing, however, is the same market segment Triumph hopes to get with the new Thunderbird with a bias toward touring over bar hopping. As Greg notes, having an electrical system capable of running accessories is critical in that regard. So is a traditional look. And in that MG may have an advantage over Triumph in not having to hide a radiator somewhere. (A careful examination of the Thunderbird suggests Triumph spent considerable effort in diverting attention away from that component.)

Personally, I hope MG sells every example they can manufacture. The "halo effect" of a CalVin 1400 is likely to be substantial, I think. And since Aprilia has nothing at all in that market segment, I think it suggests a very smart corporate strategy.

This makes sense to me, the Thunderbird is attracting a lot of attention and it is an area Guzzi could compete in.
OK if the 1400 turns out like that, I won't object. As long as it isn't a fat and thirsty, I want at least 46mpg (imp), I would prefer 50. 

[Dean Rose]

I can't see the need for 1400 0r 1500cc.
Why not just produce a Cali with the Bellagio frame and the 4V 1200 engine?
Enough power and it would make a good tourer.
I don't want to see Guzzi produce a Gold wing or anything near it, excess for the sake of it just isn't the way Guzzi do things.
I don't want to spend ages finding out what about 20 or 30 different buttons do before I ride.

I doubt that 90%+ of current Guzzi owners "see the need for 1400 or 1500 cc's," especially them fancy Europeans that show up here.  ;) Such folks, however, are obviously not the primary target market for such a bike. It's us overweight Americans who believe bigger is always better and for whom an 1100cc cruiser is a "midsize" bike that Guzzi is hoping to interest, I assume.

I'd be very surprised, however, to see MG try to emulate the Gold Wing in terms of looks or technological doo-dads. That's a market that Honda owns lock, stock, and barrel. And no effort to add buttons is going to overcome the advantage Honda has in terms of that amazing six cylinder GW engine.

What MG does have a chance of capturing, however, is the same market segment Triumph hopes to get with the new Thunderbird with a bias toward touring over bar hopping. As Greg notes, having an electrical system capable of running accessories is critical in that regard. So is a traditional look. And in that MG may have an advantage over Triumph in not having to hide a radiator somewhere. (A careful examination of the Thunderbird suggests Triumph spent considerable effort in diverting attention away from that component.)

Personally, I hope MG sells every example they can manufacture. The "halo effect" of a CalVin 1400 is likely to be substantial, I think. And since Aprilia has nothing at all in that market segment, I think it suggests a very smart corporate strategy.

Lets see they only build 7,000 bike a year and only 10% of those come over here. So how do we think that we could convince them to build the GUZZI equvilent of a Wing or something I surely don't want. My EV is a great touring machine why do I need a 1600cc Winnebago? Wait does it come with a Teddy Bear and matching satin jackets.

Dean



 

[T.B.]

teddy bear and satin jacket.  lol. ;D ;-T
i'll take mine in an 1800 trike.  now only if they could flip the engine around so it was pointing the right way.

[JohninVT`]

I can't see the need for 1400 0r 1500cc.
Why not just produce a Cali with the Bellagio frame and the 4V 1200 engine?
Enough power and it would make a good tourer.
I don't want to see Guzzi produce a Gold wing or anything near it, excess for the sake of it just isn't the way Guzzi do things.
I don't want to spend ages finding out what about 20 or 30 different buttons do before I ride.

I doubt that 90%+ of current Guzzi owners "see the need for 1400 or 1500 cc's," especially them fancy Europeans that show up here.  ;) Such folks, however, are obviously not the primary target market for such a bike. It's us overweight Americans who believe bigger is always better and for whom an 1100cc cruiser is a "midsize" bike that Guzzi is hoping to interest, I assume.

I'd be very surprised, however, to see MG try to emulate the Gold Wing in terms of looks or technological doo-dads. That's a market that Honda owns lock, stock, and barrel. And no effort to add buttons is going to overcome the advantage Honda has in terms of that amazing six cylinder GW engine.

What MG does have a chance of capturing, however, is the same market segment Triumph hopes to get with the new Thunderbird with a bias toward touring over bar hopping. As Greg notes, having an electrical system capable of running accessories is critical in that regard. So is a traditional look. And in that MG may have an advantage over Triumph in not having to hide a radiator somewhere. (A careful examination of the Thunderbird suggests Triumph spent considerable effort in diverting attention away from that component.)

Personally, I hope MG sells every example they can manufacture. The "halo effect" of a CalVin 1400 is likely to be substantial, I think. And since Aprilia has nothing at all in that market segment, I think it suggests a very smart corporate strategy.

Lets see they only build 7,000 bike a year and only 10% of those come over here. So how do we think that we could convince them to build the GUZZI equvilent of a Wing or something I surely don't want. My EV is a great touring machine why do I need a 1600cc Winnebago? Wait does it come with a Teddy Bear and matching satin jackets.

Dean



 

Half that.  I saw a posting from Piaggio describing how they're going to use a new 12 million dollar grant to develop electric Guzzis and it said Guzzi sold 3,500 bikes last year and they need 4,500 to break even next year.  I am amazed that Piaggio hasn't pulled the plug and I'm also amazed people can bitch about new product from a company who probably sold fewer bikes than Bimota did last year.  Hell, I bet even those morons at Orange County Choppers sold 500 bikes last year.  To say Guzzi isn't a player in the US(or any market) and needs to branch out from what current Guzzi owners want is a massive, massive understatement.  It's time for Piaggio to throw a bunch of stuff against teh wall and see what sticks.  Past time some would say.        

[NorthRider]

How big is "too big"?
I was told that Honda was going to discontinue the 1800 VTX and retain the 1300 VTX in the 2010 line-up by our local dealer.* He stated that the 1800 did not sell that well, as compaired to the 1300. Could it be that people are seeing the light when it comes to 800+ pound motorcycles with bigger engines than some small cars?

*I looked on the Honda Powersports web site and still see the 1800 advertised....So I am not really sure what is happening with it.

[HDGoose]

How big is "too big"?
I was told that Honda was going to discontinue the 1800 VTX and retain the 1300 VTX in the 2010 line-up by our local dealer.* He stated that the 1800 did not sell that well, as compaired to the 1300. Could it be that people are seeing the light when it comes to 800+ pound motorcycles with bigger engines than some small cars?

*I looked on the Honda Powersports web site and still see the 1800 advertised....So I am not really sure what is happening with it.

The 1300 is anemic...the 1800 is nice.

[HDGoose]

Photos showed me leads me to believe that Piaggio is smart enough to know that the new machine must have the larger alternator. That means the new machine cannot be based on the Bellagio, which has a frame that disallows this feature. All of the rest falls out from there.

Loop frame?   ;-T ;D

Hopefully with a suitable sized fuel tank.

[bad Chad]

When the %&^#@# is someone going to leak a photo!! ???

[John Ulrich]

When the %&^#@# is someone going to leak a photo!! ???

[Kev m]

How big is "too big"?
I was told that Honda was going to discontinue the 1800 VTX and retain the 1300 VTX in the 2010 line-up by our local dealer.* He stated that the 1800 did not sell that well, as compaired to the 1300. Could it be that people are seeing the light when it comes to 800+ pound motorcycles with bigger engines than some small cars?

*I looked on the Honda Powersports web site and still see the 1800 advertised....So I am not really sure what is happening with it.

But is it the 09 or an 2010? If it's an 09, then it's still on the site while dealers try to sell through inventory...

[SidecarMike]

When the %&^#@# is someone going to leak a photo!! ???

You probably caused a couple of coronaries John!

[HDGoose]

When the %&^#@# is someone going to leak a photo!! ???

You probably caused a couple of coronaries John!

Knowing the folks I know from this board...I was expecing that!

[Seagondollar]

It'll be shown at EICMA, starting on the 10th.  

Edit:  OK, there I go making assumptions or at least being guilty of wishful thinking.

[Greg Field]

Well, one report said it will be shown.

The stuff I saw of the new Cali didn't seem that ready, nor did they hint that it would be for EICMA. They did hint at some other things that would be, though. We shall see.

[Kev m]

Well, one report said it will be shown.

The stuff I saw of the new Cali didn't seem that ready, nor did they hint that it would be for EICMA. They did hint at some other things that would be, though. We shall see.

You tease like a beoch  :-*   P:) :BEER: