*California 1400 Merged Threadfest*

[Kev m]

I can understand what you're saying Pan

If I had to pin it all on one, I'd go with a bigger retro.

A Bellagio in V7 clothing - $9999, and a cafe version (could they 8V it?) for $10999

Along with dropping the V7 price to $7000 so it could at least compete for entry level business

Not that either is going to happen.

[Greg Field]

I'd agree more with Pan's more expansive definition of a cruiser than with Kev's more restrictive one. I look upon a Road King as a cruiser. Same for the Dynas and Sportsters. Same for the Stars/Vulcans/Victorys/Viragos/ad nauseum.

Cruiser ergos are not a result of anything but reality. American buyers of cruisers want low seat heights. How do you get low seat heights and still allow for workable control positioning given American-sized people? There's one way: move 'em forward.

Without low seat heights, Guzzi will not be able to compete in the cruiser market. If they lower seat heights, they'll have to move the controls forward. This might gain them some customers, but it would also alienate just about all of us here.

And if they are going to seriously compete in the cruiser market, they will find out exactly what the Japanese and Victory and E-H. etc. have found out:

1) It isn't that easy

2) You won't really net mass success until you make your bike look and run similar enough to a Harley that it might as well be one.

As a long-time observer of what works and what doesn't in the US market, I would advise Guzzi to not even think about competing in the cruiser market.

Cal III and on Calis have always been styled as cruisers but have always functioned as very competent "standards."

I'd rather see Guzzi drop the silly pretense of cruiser-ism and just make an excellent standard with unique style yet modern function. I think the Nuovo Tonti frame of the Bellagio is the place to start. Modify the front downtubes to allow the belt-driven alternator, though, so it has enough electrical capacity for the modern rider. Then make it look like a bike only Guzzi could design. Ultimately, I think that'd net more sales.

Alternatively, do what Ducati did and pump up the small-blocks. The Tontino frame could be beefed up a bit to soldier on. I'm not sure what potential there is in the motor, but certainly there is some, especially if they ditched the heron heads and made it a high-cam.

[Kev m]

I think I'm with Greg on this...

[rocker59]

I think I'm with Greg on this...

Me, too...

[LowRyter]

Listen, a Cali only looks like a "Cruiser".  Actually, it's a cop bike.  That means it corners and brakes.  It as the same carrying capacity as Harley Glide but weighs 200 lb less.  Yeah, it doesn't have a lot of power, but performs beyond it's styling once it's going.  

Before I found the Guzzi I was looking for a two-up bike.  I've ridden many of the Metric and Harley cruisers with touring packs. Let me tell ya, the first steep turn and the Road King is scraping it's floor boards.  The Beemer C bike?  Same thing.   The new Japanese cruisers are heavier than many Harley's.  Gold Wing might be good, but look at the price.

My EV has normal riding position, no legs-forward deal.  It handles, brakes, has ground clearance.  The EV would be almost perfect it had 30 more hp, lower gearing, 6 speed, factory faring, and bigger alternator & elec do dads.  But I wouldn't give up the handing and sportiness to get there.

1600 bike would likely be a monster in size and drive a Buick.  Now a 1400 version of the existing package, 8v, and little weight gain, that sounds like a nicely balanced piece.

[Guzzimundi]

Well, you guys wanted bigger. You got bigger. California 1400 coming in Milano. Darn, no pictures yet.

Moto Guzzi California 1400
Arriverà nel 2010 con un motore V2 millequattro

La Moto Guzzi California 1400, spinta da un rinnovato motore V2 trasversale, otto valvole, dovrebbe essere tra i modelli più interessanti che Moto Guzzi presenterà al prossimo Salone di Milano 2009: si tratta di un modello 2010 molto atteso dagli appassionati dell'Aquila di Mandello, non solo perchè tra i più venduti dell'intera gamma ma soprattutto perchè rappresenta un po' l'anello di congiunzione tra la Moto Guzzi del passato e quella più moderna, fatta di moto estremamente interessanti sotto il profilotecnico ed estetico.

Il nuovo motore, che condividerà la classica architettura a V di 90° con albero motore disposto longitudinalmente, condividerà con i modelli più recenti la trasmissione a cardano CARC, la tecnologia di distribuzione a quattro valvoleper cilindro. Non si tratterà, in ogni caso, di un aumento della cilindrata studiato con il semplice fine di cercare più potenza massima, anche perchè aivari allestimenti California non servono molti più dei 73.4 CV attualmente erogati dal V2 da 1.064 cc., ma più semplicemente un massiccio aumento della coppia motrice ai medi regimi.

Lo stesso motore sarà invece chiamato a tirare fuori le unghie quando sarà installato su moto dal tono più sportivo o gran turismo ancor più toste della Norge: 125 CV potrebbero essere tranquillamente alla portata di un motore di questa cubatura. Un valore con il quale i tecnici Moto Guzzi non sono mai arrivati a confrontarsi sino ad oggi, se non nel caso della MGS, e che permetterà di andare ad esplorare nuovi confini in termini di tipologia di prodotto.

Grande e grossa come l'attuale, in particolar modo nell'allestimento Vintage, la California 2010 sarà completamente rivista e corretta rispetto al modello attuale: l'impostazione stilistica rimarrà quella della classica custom all'italiana, ma siamo certi che le novità interessanti non mancheranno.

[PICKLEKOOKEN]

  Do you have it in English?

[rocker59]

  Do you have it in English?

A new California sporting CARC and a bumped out to 1400cc version of the current big block will be on the podium in Milan at EICMA.

That's been predicted for about a year.  It'll be interesting to see what they did with the styling...  Eldo/Ambo or HD/Clone ? 

[rocker59]

Oh, and they're saying that the new motor "could be" capable of 125hp...    :D

[Gary Scott]

Pictures yes pictures an more pictures is it coming across the pond to the good ole USA an when
Gary

[jsh1120]

My Valkyrie, usually disdainful of new cruiser introductions, is a bit concerned.

[Guzzimundi]

  Do you have it in English?

Well this is what the internet translates into english:

Movement Guzzi California 1400 Will Arrive in 2010 with an engine V2 millequattro

The Movement Guzzi California 1400, pushed from a renewed engine V2 transversal, eight valves, would have to be between the models more interesting that Movement Guzzi will present to the next Lounge of Milan 2009: it is discussed of a model 2010 very long-awaited from the fascinated some eagle of Mandello, not only because between the most sold of the whole range but above all because represents a little one the ring of conjunction between the Movement Modern, done of movement extremely interesting under the profilotecnico and aesthetic.  

The new engine, that will share the classic architecture to V of 90° with crankshaft arranged lengthwise, will share with the most recent models the transmission to card CARC, the technology of distribution to four valvoleper cylinder.  It will not be treated, at any rate, of an increase of the rolled studied with the simple end of to seek more greatest power, also because aivari preparations California do not serve a lot more of 73,4 HP at present distributed from the V2 from 1,064 cc., but more simply a bulky increase of the couple engine to the middle regimes.  

The same engine instead will be called to pull out of the nails when will be installed on movement from the sportiest tone or big tourism even more immediately of the Norge:  125 HP would be able to be calmly to the course of an engine of this cubic capacity.  A value with which the technical Movement Guzzi never arrived to confront itself since to today, if not in the case of the MGS, and that will allow to go to explore new boundaries in product of typology of limits.  

Large and gross like the present, in particolar manner in the preparation Vintage, the California 2010 completely will be reviewed and correct with respect to the present model: the stylistic mailing will will remain that of the classic custom to the Italian, but we are certain that the interesting novelty will not be lacking.  

But do notice that last paragraph. I quote: " Large and gross like the present...." I hope the Italian translators do a better job in the marketing department lest we want Guzzi to go the Buell way.  ::)

[jsh1120]

^^^ Well that certainly clears it up.

[RayB]

Maybe they bolted two V7c engines together

[rocker59]

Here's my "translation":

Moto Guzzi California 1400 Will Arrive in 2010 with a V2 millequattro engine.

The Moto Guzzi California 1400, pushed by a renewed transverse V2 engine with eight valves, will be between more interesting models that Moto Guzzi will present to the next Lounge of Milan 2009: it is discussed that a 2010 model, very long-awaited from the eagle of Mandello, will replace the most sold model of the whole range.  Above all this new model represents a little ring of conjunction between the modern moto and those of old, done extremely interesting with proficiency and with a nice aesthetic.  

The new engine, that will share the classic architecture of the V of 90° with legnthwise-arranged crankshaft, will share with the most recent models the transmission and CARC, and the technology of the four valve per cylinder heads.   

The same engine will be called to "pull out the stops" when will be installed in a Moto Guzzi of the sportiest tone, or big tourer even more capable than the Norge:  125 HP would be easily attainable in an engine of this cubic capacity.  Something which Moto Guzzi has never attained, except in the case of the MGS, and that will allow Moto Guzzi to explore new boundaries in product "typology" limits.  

Large like the California Vintage, the California 2010 will be completely correct with respect to the present model: the style will remain that of the classic custom Italian motorcycle, but we are certain that this interesting motorcycle will not be lacking.  

[Guzzimundi]

Maybe they bolted two V7c engines together

Nah, that would be an underpowered catamaran.

[Greg Field]

Sounds like what I saw pictures of at the dealer meeting.

[cali]

MMMMMM,sounds very tasty,maybe now that they intend to play with the big boys(road king,electraglide,goldwing etc)mandello might consider producing some accessories to personalise it(instead of the "what you see is what you get" way of thinking)and hopefully they  put some more thought into the design and quality of the bike(given the usual recalls of the previous models that has been released),besides I can't wait to see what colour it will be.

[Atlanta Guzzi]

Sweet!

I'm ready to check it out.  Could Moto Guzzi be so bold as to bring back the signature color of all time, Gialo Sole?   ;)
 

[Travman]

So when is the EICMA show in Milan?

[toddhaven]

Sounds like what I saw pictures of at the dealer meeting.

Bellagio-based, or did they get a real alternator on the things?

[John in PA]

So when is the EICMA show in Milan?

Nov. 10-15, 2009

[LowRyter]

I hope it's not a 700 - 800 lb behemoth

[Greg Field]

Sounds like what I saw pictures of at the dealer meeting.

Bellagio-based, or did they get a real alternator on the things?

Frame looked Griso based. Has the big alternator.

EDIT: Reading back on that description, they might be talking about another bike. The description includes one feature that the bike we were shown definitely did not have. Could be the describer isn't a keen observer, though.

[casalambretta]

Sounds like what I saw pictures of at the dealer meeting.

Bellagio-based, or did they get a real alternator on the things?

Frame looked Griso based. Has the big alternator.

EDIT: Reading back on that description, they might be talking about another bike. The description includes one feature that the bike we were shown definitely did not have. Could be the describer isn't a keen observer, though.

Besides the hp comparison to the MGS, this article is about the new 1400 California only, and how the engine may be used to bring out a real sport bike or more powerful tourer down the road.

I hope Piaggio continues down this road in order to pretend Guzzi is still alive, looks very interesting.

AlexM

[hareynolds]

Maybe they bolted two V7c engines together

oo-oo, water-cooled transverse vee-four.
Haven't seen one of those since the Euro Ford/ SAAB 96 engine.  Bullet-proof old hoor, if you don't count the sprague clutch.

Bring the displacement per cylinder down a little (say 350 cc) and you'd have a pretty smooth little motor.
With watercooling, you might actually get it short enough to work.

[Ottogerd]

I go to the EICMA on 10th and I am very eager to see what they have done. The most important question for me is, if the new bike has ABS System. If it has, I will order one.

[Guzzimundi]

I go to the EICMA on 10th and I am very eager to see what they have done. The most important question for me is, if the new bike has ABS System. If it has, I will order one.

And so you will be reporting directly back to us with pics!  :o

[IceBlue]

That would be a requirement I should say   ;)
 :PICS!: :PICS!: :PICS!: :PICS!:
Your posts/pictures will be the most studies posts on the board  :P

Ciao

[Ottogerd]

with pleasure, of course.