*California 1400 Merged Threadfest*

[Chuck in Indiana]

You guys calling these forwards have never actually seen a bike with forwards have you?

Forwards are raised pegs at the very front of the motor and frame. When riding with forwards your legs are near straight.

These are similar to Calis and HD touring bikes. Somewhere between mids (knee in front of you and foot below your knee) and forwards. I suspect one's foot will be slightly in front of one's knee, leg still mostly bent.

This gives lot's of options for leg and foot positioning and lends itself to comfortable all day rides without completely compromising your lower body for handling/bike control.

You're fulla carp, Kev.  ;D :BEER: If they're not below me or behind me, they're "forward" controls. Don't like em. Never have. Never will. ~; That's why they make all kinds.

[Kev m]

Chuck - You don't have to like em...just understand there's a difference between forwards, touring controls,  and mids,  just like there's a difference between standard and rearsets. Are you even a potential customer?  Have you owned a Cali or cruiser before?

Gnigma - I hear you about some alignments but since dimensions of the new motor are unknown we can't be sure about the relative dimensions yet. I certainly hope they're not too extreme.

[EVboyeee]

The Roaddog plus others   http://www.factoryfat.com/moreautofour.html












The Gelbke story by Buzz Wallneck: By Buzz Walneck

Back in 1965 a guy by the name of William Gelbke, also known as "Wild Bill", constructed a bike of his own design. He dubbed his creation "ROADOG" and began touring the United States on it. Bill and ROADOG were seen all over the country. It is said that Bill put over 20,000 miles on ROADOG the first year alone.

Bill graduated college in Wisconsin as an electronic engineer and moved out to California for additional schooling at a Southern California University. On leaving there, he was scooped up by McDonell-Douglas for work in a defense system program. Bill did not enjoy his work at McDonell-Douglas. He dreamed of designing and building motorcycles. One day, he decided to realize his dreams and he left McDonell-Douglas. Now he was free to build motorcycles his way! He began to design ROADOG. His design included Earles front forks, an automatic transmission and lots of power for touring and reliability. Add to that a shaft drive and disc brakes...OVER 30-YEARS AGO!

Bill moved to Chicago and opened up a cycle shop on Cicero Avenue. That was about 1962, when his plan was to build a prototype bike that he would test and ultimately put into production as a smaller model. His plan for the production model included an 80-cubic inch, English automotive 4-cylinder engine with an automatic transmission and shaft drive.

With "ROADOG" Bill wanted a bike that would cruise indefinitely at 90+ MPH. He wanted a bike as reliable as could be made. With an "IRON DUKE" 4-cylinder 152 cubic inch Chevy II engine, a Powerglide transmission, a modified Chevy differential and Corvette disc brakes, that type of reliability was accomplished. ROADOG had no side stand, but was parked with the use of four hydraulic rams, which were individually deployed by the driver. After touring the country, Bill went to work on the production model which was called the "Gelbke Auto-Four". While larger than a big Harley, they were quite a bit smaller than ROADOG and employed an Austin Mini engine and transmission. About 8-were produced and sold.

In 1972 an article on ROADOG was printed in a magazine. The article stated that the bike was 17-feet long and weighed 3,280 pounds! Also, that it could easily cruise at 90+ MPH, and that Bill had driven the bike more than 20,000 miles with no problems. The article pointed out that Bill's goals were to produce a bike that was dependable, had out-standing highway roadability, and high-speed, long distance cruising ability. Bill certainly achieved his goals!

We have heard quite a few stories from old friends of Bill. Some go like this: "Let's take a ride (from Wisconsin), to Oklahoma where you can get a really good steak". Or "Let's take a ride to Texas where they have really good beer"• often done in February or March! Another guy told us of seeing "Wild Bill and ROADOG" passing him on the tollway here in Illinois at about 100-MPH!! Before long he spotted Bill and a State Trooper on the side of the road. A few minutes later, he was again passed by Bill and ROADOG, again doing about 100-MPH! Later he stopped at Bill's shop and asked if he had gotten a ticket. Bill told him that the police officer had stopped him just to get a better look at ROADOG!

Later Bill moved back to his hometown in northern Wisconsin and went into another field. In 1979 Bill was killed in a domestic dispute and "ROADOG" disappeared not to be seen again for 15-years. Over the years I saw posters in various cycle shops with Bill sitting on the bike, and wondered what ever happened to him and the bike. Was it laying in some garage? Was it rusting away in some junkyard or had it been long ago chopped up as scrap? After about a 6-year search, we did a small article in our magazine, which prompted a couple of calls to us. Then one day "THE CALL" came in.

"I know where the big bike "ROADOG" is". Shortly thereafter, we were headed off with a large trailer and bought the bike. The 15-years of storage were pretty kind to it, and it was soon running again. We are keeping it as an unrestored bike, looking just like "Wild Bill" left it.. all those years ago. 
     

[jackson]

It doesn't appear to be a CARC bike.

[Silver Goose]

I will hold out on passing judgement concerning the 1400. The factory rarely calls for my opinion on most anything. IMO I would have liked to have seen a smaller (750 CC) Stelvio on the market. While I love my 2009 Stelvio (5500 miles in six weeks) I think the buying public is looking for more affordable, fun and rideable motorcycles. I think, due to size and production output that Moto Guzzi would have looked at moving volume rather than a styling exercise.

I really hope that the new models sell well and that MG stays in business for many years, who knows, I might need a few spare parts.

[Kev m]

It doesn't appear to be a CARC bike.

True,  but was it ever expected to be?

The earliest images shown what a year or more ago showed twin shocks.

[brenwin]

The Roaddog plus others   http://www.factoryfat.com/moreautofour.html












The Gelbke story by Buzz Wallneck: By Buzz Walneck

Back in 1965 a guy by the name of William Gelbke, also known as "Wild Bill", constructed a bike of his own design. He dubbed his creation "ROADOG" and began touring the United States on it. Bill and ROADOG were seen all over the country. It is said that Bill put over 20,000 miles on ROADOG the first year alone.

Bill graduated college in Wisconsin as an electronic engineer and moved out to California for additional schooling at a Southern California University. On leaving there, he was scooped up by McDonell-Douglas for work in a defense system program. Bill did not enjoy his work at McDonell-Douglas. He dreamed of designing and building motorcycles. One day, he decided to realize his dreams and he left McDonell-Douglas. Now he was free to build motorcycles his way! He began to design ROADOG. His design included Earles front forks, an automatic transmission and lots of power for touring and reliability. Add to that a shaft drive and disc brakes...OVER 30-YEARS AGO!

Bill moved to Chicago and opened up a cycle shop on Cicero Avenue. That was about 1962, when his plan was to build a prototype bike that he would test and ultimately put into production as a smaller model. His plan for the production model included an 80-cubic inch, English automotive 4-cylinder engine with an automatic transmission and shaft drive.

With "ROADOG" Bill wanted a bike that would cruise indefinitely at 90+ MPH. He wanted a bike as reliable as could be made. With an "IRON DUKE" 4-cylinder 152 cubic inch Chevy II engine, a Powerglide transmission, a modified Chevy differential and Corvette disc brakes, that type of reliability was accomplished. ROADOG had no side stand, but was parked with the use of four hydraulic rams, which were individually deployed by the driver. After touring the country, Bill went to work on the production model which was called the "Gelbke Auto-Four". While larger than a big Harley, they were quite a bit smaller than ROADOG and employed an Austin Mini engine and transmission. About 8-were produced and sold.

In 1972 an article on ROADOG was printed in a magazine. The article stated that the bike was 17-feet long and weighed 3,280 pounds! Also, that it could easily cruise at 90+ MPH, and that Bill had driven the bike more than 20,000 miles with no problems. The article pointed out that Bill's goals were to produce a bike that was dependable, had out-standing highway roadability, and high-speed, long distance cruising ability. Bill certainly achieved his goals!

We have heard quite a few stories from old friends of Bill. Some go like this: "Let's take a ride (from Wisconsin), to Oklahoma where you can get a really good steak". Or "Let's take a ride to Texas where they have really good beer"• often done in February or March! Another guy told us of seeing "Wild Bill and ROADOG" passing him on the tollway here in Illinois at about 100-MPH!! Before long he spotted Bill and a State Trooper on the side of the road. A few minutes later, he was again passed by Bill and ROADOG, again doing about 100-MPH! Later he stopped at Bill's shop and asked if he had gotten a ticket. Bill told him that the police officer had stopped him just to get a better look at ROADOG!

Later Bill moved back to his hometown in northern Wisconsin and went into another field. In 1979 Bill was killed in a domestic dispute and "ROADOG" disappeared not to be seen again for 15-years. Over the years I saw posters in various cycle shops with Bill sitting on the bike, and wondered what ever happened to him and the bike. Was it laying in some garage? Was it rusting away in some junkyard or had it been long ago chopped up as scrap? After about a 6-year search, we did a small article in our magazine, which prompted a couple of calls to us. Then one day "THE CALL" came in.

"I know where the big bike "ROADOG" is". Shortly thereafter, we were headed off with a large trailer and bought the bike. The 15-years of storage were pretty kind to it, and it was soon running again. We are keeping it as an unrestored bike, looking just like "Wild Bill" left it.. all those years ago. 
     

Great stuff , thanks for this . Sure proves the old saying about truth being stranger than fiction .  Cheers.

[jackson]

True,  but was it ever expected to be?

The earliest images shown what a year or more ago showed twin shocks.

Yeah, I know.........but the early drawings and articles are NOT always what comes to production.  I'm just a tiny bit surprised that they didn't make it a CARC bike. 

[Kev m]

Yeah, I know.........but the early drawings and articles are NOT always what comes to production.  I'm just a tiny bit surprised that they didn't make it a CARC bike.  

True true...but I'm not talking drawings or articles, I mean Piaggio press photos and mock-ups which are usually pretty close to the truth and they were all dual shock, from the early white one, to the early black one and finally the later black ones showed at this years EU and US dealer meetings.

[blackcat]

I got to see the bike and meet Buzz when he brought it to Carlisle,Pa sometime in the mid 90's. The bike is a monster and not particularly attractive.

[Suncoast]

I think the new Cali will go head to head with the Triumph Thunderbird http://www.triumph.co.uk/uk/12785.aspx Very similar in design IMO

[Guzikid]

 Then the M-G better be r-e-a-l good.  I've ridden both the standard and the Storm versions of the Thunderbird.  They are great bikes with lottsa torque and handle very well.  The price of the 1400 may make the difference....??? We'll have to wait and see.  The Kid

[Gravel guy]

Maybe if one were to hang a steak from the handlebars the dogs would play with it?  IDK; maybe the design will grow on me?   :-\

[mtiberio]

At least get it straight, the real thing, not some wanna-be poser... Wild Bill Gelbke and the Roadog...

http://thenewcaferacersociety.blogspot.com/2008/05/wild-bill-gelbkes-road-dog.html

coming soon:

[VTwins]

  I'm not to moved by the first picture. Awful long, I like how they covered the frame with the tank. I talked with a tank builder about doing it on the Griso. He said he could, and this is pretty much what we came up with a facade or tank cut out around the cylinder. It does have the Rune, Diavel seat, Victory tailight, look. All things I don't favor. I never liked alot of the Guzzi bike's styling though. The Centuro and Jackal I never warmed up to. This is a  street/cruiser shot for sure. There is only one line from the clutch I think your looking at the wires from handle bar controls. While speaking of controls, these are definately Forward controls. The shifter is almost in front of the frame and engine, and the floor boards are too forward to stand up on. My Harley boards were moved forward only two inches and you cant stand on the boards without pulling your self up with bars and can't stay on them. These boards are forward of the Cali's, which actually got complaints about their placement. Harley controls are not, all forward and up. Depends on the model, and besides we were doing forward controls on choppers in the 60's before Harley copied custom mods we were doing. Same as they do today. Or are we talking about the girls bikes? (Sportsters) The Guzzi crowd definately have a differant perspective when it comes to bikes and looks. I haven't had a pipe since the 60's and I don't have any suspenders, maybe thats part of the problem.   ~T~

[Kev m]

I still say it's gonna depend on actual dimensions.

Remember this bike was designed to look big, bit actually looked smaller once they started showing pics with people in it like the execs or Max Biaggi.

[Chuck in Indiana]

I still say it's gonna depend on actual dimensions.

Remember this bike was designed to look big, bit actually looked smaller once they started showing pics with people in it like the execs or Max Biaggi.

<poking with stick>  Naw, you're still saying it doesn't have forward controls.. ~; :BEER: ;D

[Kev m]

<poking with stick>  Naw, you're still saying it doesn't have forward controls.. ~; :BEER: ;D

LOL well yes,  it's still a touring and not gynecological exam position ....but maybe I'm letting my optimism get the better of me.

[Avvocato]

I found these factory photos on Facebook.  I haven't seen them before.  Hope you enjoy.

[Kev m]

Dogwalker beat you to it by about a day.  Good stuff though.

[Avvocato]

 :wife:

[Arizona Wayne]

OMG, those pictures are so GROSS !!!   :-X

[VTwins]

  Choppers and all types of custom builds back in the day included pegs attached where ever they could be attached out front, bars and seat allowed riders to lay back and feet out front. Then controls were moved forward, again any way that worked. We used chains for linkage a lot. Controls moved forward of a standard position became forward controls, whether floor boards or foot pegs were used. Early Harley tour bikes FLH's had high seats and boards in a standard placement and later years in Evo and Twin Cam FL's boards and controls started moving forward more and more. Harley has always kept track of mods and custom work done by riders which sported home made or after factory parts and then installed parts and designs on their stock models. In most cases they bought out after factory part makers designs to keep them from making them and then Harley put their name on the parts. The Shovelhead Wide Glides were one of the early stock bikes that came with forward controls stock to copy chopper designs. If you look at that seat position and where those floor boards, and controls are on the New Guzzi 1400 they are definitely forward of a standard position. Same happened with the British race bikes and rear sets, they just refer to controls and pegs moved rear of standard. Forward controls is nothing more than a term used for controls forward of a standard position regardless of the bike, they dont have to be high or wide or exaggerated as on some choppers.  :)  Another thing I hear from newer riders is they refer to foot clutch, hand shift bikes as Suicide Shifter or Suicide Clutch. Again actually it was a mod done to a standard foot clutch hand shift bike.   ;-T
   ~T~ 

[Kev m]

I would suggest that language is fluid and terms change.

I would generally agree with you if not for the vast difference between seating with true forwards (leaning back on tailbone) vs with touring controls and typical floorboards (sitting straight up). These generally also vary in leg positions the former almost straight and the later almost 90. So although some might call the later forward, I think that's unfair and doesn't accurately tell the story.

Despite that oddity I suspect most of us can recognize the following types even if we disagree on the definitions:

Legs bent, knees in front of feet,  feet below or behind butt (rearset)

Legs bent around 90 degrees, knees in front of butt,  feet generally below knees (standard / mid)

Legs straight (or nearly), feet well in front of knees (forwards)

Where I claim a difference is between mids and forwards.

I generally feel current FLHs (and those since the EVO), FLSTs, Calis and some Japanese brands with floorboards (maybe Vice too) have floorboards which allow the rider to sit up (not leaning back), feet slightly in front of knees, but legs still bent. Generally sufficiently steady enough to stand without pulling.   I call those touring mids for lack of a better term because I find them closer to the functionality of mids than sole of your boot, toes pointing up,  legs nearly straight,  can't stand on pegs "forwards".

Semantics? Perhaps.

Granted I understand how riders of sportbikes would call almost anything not rearset "forwards" from their perspectives. But to do so seems lacking in precision of meaning,  to color with too broad a stroke things that are not as similar as the one term might suggest.

I continue to hope these controls turn out to be more like a Cali or FLH/FLST than the true forwards of an FXST or Victory with pegs etc

Time will tell.

[VTwins]

    I often run into riders that started riding Harleys during the Evo days, or the big majority that started with Twin Cams. They grow a goatee get some ink and presto a biker, and even worse an expert on all things Harley. Usually these are the same guys that told all the Harley jokes and talked about leaks and how they were junk. Fact is they were either too young, couldn't wrench on bikes and didn't have the guts to pay dues and had no passion to ride them. They waited until it was safe to ride them with all the other Road King newbees and the bikes were leak free and they could take them to the dealer for service. In their mind they know Harleys and might have even trailered to Sturgis. You try to be nice to them and educate them, stop and help them. Fix their bike, save them money, you know, teach em something. Same true of Guzzi Riders, I rode across country coast to coast with a Eldo in 1976. Owned two and a Lemans 1 back in the day and bought them when you could buy them for $100-$200. I'm sure there's guys here on this site that have lots of Guzzi story's and info. Thats why I come on here as I have 3 Guzzi's still as well as Liter Ducati's, BMW, Harleys (I've had several since 1972 high school) Indians, built, restored, customized British, Italian, American, German, have several trophys. I try to follow forums for info when I have time. I love to hear story's and get experienced scoop from experts and seasoned riders. I have a tough time sometimes staying tuned in long, as there's always a few of those "presto see my dew rag experts" that know too much to learn anything. Ones that talk alot but don't say much, see its a virtual world where anyone can feel safe spouting on line and have more posts than miles under their belts. I ride with young and old, sport bikes, adventure, Harleys, all the time all over the country. I dont have red suspenders, a beard, not that that's a bad thing, but I've been around and like young guys that listen and learn and ask, instead of try to convince you they know it all. I love talking to guys with bikes that have done their own work and share tips and stories. The original Indian owner/riders have great info tips and stories. If you met me you would never know I've been around as long as I have. I remember alot but keep up with the new bikes, and times pretty well. Also been around long enough to remember the 80's and those Gargoyes and Razor glasses and back when they were in. I also have open face helmets from the 60's and 70's not re-pops.     ~T~

[VTwins]

   I'm still kinda new here so maybe we help me figure out who is on here to learn and share, who has experience and is a seasoned rider and who is F.O.S. and just doesn't have real friends and have no one to listen to them so they become virtual experts. It would save me time as I could skip some posts.    ;D   Sorry  I'll try again in the morning. I do enjoy motorcycle info, problems, fixes, issues, warranty info. good stories about rides and people, pictures, new products and such, thank-you to those that contribute that and I will contribute to the forum best I can and contribute $$ also.   ~T~   

[Dogwalker]

The lever seems a little behind that of The California Classic to me.

[Kev m]

V - I'm certainly a good bit younger than you and have little experience with 70s Harleys,  mostly because I didn't go to high school till the 80s and started riding in the 90s. My Harleys (I've owned 5 so far) have all been EVOs by choice (ive rebuilt an IH for a friend and uhh no thanks). In my mere 20 or so years of riding I've enjoyed Harleys, BMWs,  Guzzis and a number of other sundry brands/bikes. My career gave me access to a ton more for a while and I thoroughly enjoyed the variety. It's rare that someone other than me lays a wrench on my machines,  but the occasional warranty job crops up.

Not sure what all this resume stuff has to do with the ergos of the new Cali or related semantics, but it's all good.

Dogwalker. Maybe it's image quality on this phone but is that the pivot you can see on the new Cali? Is the toe shifter still at the front of the floorboard?  That's the dimension people are using to say these are more forward. And they might be, but I still say height and distance from seat to control is going to make all the difference.

[Dogwalker]

In the picture, the toe shifter is at the center of the floorboard (under) and of the cylinder (above). We'll see on the definitive bike.

[Kev m]

Really?  So there's no heel? How is the linkage setup? That's a long way to go without a pivot?   ???