*California 1400 Merged Threadfest*

[dgurovich]

"Why would a company want to transform a marque known for its engine"

Well, no.  The marque was known for a huge string of GP victories up until 1957.  Then it was known for having incredibly outdated bikes.  Then it was known for police bikes.  Then the V7 Sport came about.

That bike was the DAMNED FASTEST BIKE that you could buy for arguably, a couple of years.  Hailwood called it "the best handling street bike in the world" even though Guzzi, even at that time, couldn't afford to pay him to race their stuff.

Guzzi, at the end of 1972, was known for building amazingly solid tourers and having the DAMNED FASTEST BIKE that you could buy.  Now, Guzzi is known for having dealers that range from excellent to "a spot on the floor next to the Kymco bikes".  They're known for having a bunch of things that need to be "fixed" before delivery.  They're known for great bikes once they're set up right, that run forever.  They are certainly not known for having the DAMNED FASTEST BIKE, or even the very best handling bike, anymore.  It's competition provide lighter faster bikes for better prices and with higher reliability.

Don't change anything?  Just keep it the same and make it more reliable?  People on this site still complain about Guzzi going to fuel injection, yet they're on their second generation.  Show me a world class bike with points and carbs.  Please.

Guzzi is dead if it goes down the same path it has followed for the last four decades.  Basta!  If "too much horsepower" is the complaint (is that from the same people that complain about the V7 Classics LACK of it?) --- Then guess what.  A water-cooled motor will allow for a much smaller, lighter motor producing 100 hp, using lighter materials and with much greater efficiency, if that's what you want.  If you want to have the "DFB" you can buy, and make Guzzi what it was at it's height during the V-twin era (arguably '71-74), then you have to face facts.

Saying that Piaggio doesn't care about Guzzi is farcical.  Hell, they even left the plant up in Mandello -- I would have turned it into a museum and moved it to Pescara where the engineers, QUALITY CONTROL and most of the components are made.  Hell, even Ford shutters it's old plants -- I can see the die-hard Ford guys complaining that any Ford not built on the same line as the original Model T is "just a poseur".

You might hate it, but time just moves forward, technology gets better, even if you don't like it, it just does -- how many of you here were late to the party with the internet, saying "I don't need to be connected, yada yada yada", yet there seems to be a community for everyone, even a bunch of polar opposites that like Guzzis whether they are old or new, carbed or not, spoked wheels, small blocks, and retired cops at donut shops. 

It's gonna be different -- if you don't like different and wish everything was like a 1000S or V7 Sport, which I would rather own than many new bikes of any brand, there's good news.  You can buy Tonti frames, motors, parts both NOS and custom all over the place and build what you like.  If you want to embrace the future, well, it's a comin'!

[Greg Field]

Back to the article in Motorcyclist about a longitudinal water-cooled V-Twin with canted forward cylinders. How does that work? How do you cant cylinders forward with the crankshaft running fore and aft? The piece goes onto say that's being done to increase legroom and place more weight toward the front wheel. But I can't visualize how this is to be done. Now if the crank was transverse and it was a parallel twin I have no problem. Someone shed some light please!   **C

There's no light to be shed. It's a stupid idea. They're trying to get the cylinders out of the way of the rider's knees. Why have the cylinders there if you do not need them there for air-cooling? It'd be way smarter to move the cylinders into a configuration that makes sense on a water-cooled machine.

I'm thinking mechanicals here, I understand the comfort and perhaps performance benefits. But how does one cant V-twin cylinders forward when they're tied to a crank running fore and aft? I can't envision the design.

The crank centerline would have to be canted along with the cylinders. That means the trans would be canted, too.

[dilligaf]

AMF started development on the engine used in the V-Rod in the late 70ies.  They also had a liquid cooled 4 cylinder underdevelopment at the same time.  We were all quit excited and expected Harley to become competitive on the race track again.  Shortly after AMF sold Harley to a "group of investors" who stopped selling motorcycles and started selling Harley Davidson.  Like it or not, they knew what they were doing.
Matt

Sort of true. AMF hired Porsche Design to pen a series of modular engines that could use components in common to make a twin-, a four-, and a six-cylinder engine. This was the NOVA project.

The later V-Rod is a different engine.

Not how I remember it.  When the AMF folks asked the dealer I was working for at the time to take on the Harley line he talked about a V-twin double head cam and a V-four underdevelopment by Porsche.  Both were water cooled.  I do not remember anything being said about a 6 cylinder.  However, as you say, the V-Rod could very well be a different engine.  The next time I see my former BOSS I will ask.  All of that aside we were both sorry to see Harley walk away from the track.  He sold Harley to the current dealer shortly after the "group of investors" purchased Harley from AMF.
Matt
Matt

[PeteS]

[
The really big question to me is -- Can you convince a traditionalist that a small block is a Cali?  Maybe that's the real intent here -- forming an unsuspecting focus group to see if they can sneak that one over on us.

Its not a small block. The scrambler is a small block, the Cali is a big block. Maybe the rumored 1300 cc or bigger engine. Bring it on, I am ready for a replacement for the EV.


Pete

[bad Chad]

Well said my friend.   It's all right here.

"Why would a company want to transform a marque known for its engine"

Well, no.  The marque was known for a huge string of GP victories up until 1957.  Then it was known for having incredibly outdated bikes.  Then it was known for police bikes.  Then the V7 Sport came about.

That bike was the DAMNED FASTEST BIKE that you could buy for arguably, a couple of years.  Hailwood called it "the best handling street bike in the world" even though Guzzi, even at that time, couldn't afford to pay him to race their stuff.

Guzzi, at the end of 1972, was known for building amazingly solid tourers and having the DAMNED FASTEST BIKE that you could buy.  Now, Guzzi is known for having dealers that range from excellent to "a spot on the floor next to the Kymco bikes".  They're known for having a bunch of things that need to be "fixed" before delivery.  They're known for great bikes once they're set up right, that run forever.  They are certainly not known for having the DAMNED FASTEST BIKE, or even the very best handling bike, anymore.  It's competition provide lighter faster bikes for better prices and with higher reliability.

Don't change anything?  Just keep it the same and make it more reliable?  People on this site still complain about Guzzi going to fuel injection, yet they're on their second generation.  Show me a world class bike with points and carbs.  Please.

Guzzi is dead if it goes down the same path it has followed for the last four decades.  Basta!  If "too much horsepower" is the complaint (is that from the same people that complain about the V7 Classics LACK of it?) --- Then guess what.  A water-cooled motor will allow for a much smaller, lighter motor producing 100 hp, using lighter materials and with much greater efficiency, if that's what you want.  If you want to have the "DFB" you can buy, and make Guzzi what it was at it's height during the V-twin era (arguably '71-74), then you have to face facts.

Saying that Piaggio doesn't care about Guzzi is farcical.  Hell, they even left the plant up in Mandello -- I would have turned it into a museum and moved it to Pescara where the engineers, QUALITY CONTROL and most of the components are made.  Hell, even Ford shutters it's old plants -- I can see the die-hard Ford guys complaining that any Ford not built on the same line as the original Model T is "just a poseur".

You might hate it, but time just moves forward, technology gets better, even if you don't like it, it just does -- how many of you here were late to the party with the internet, saying "I don't need to be connected, yada yada yada", yet there seems to be a community for everyone, even a bunch of polar opposites that like Guzzis whether they are old or new, carbed or not, spoked wheels, small blocks, and retired cops at donut shops. 

It's gonna be different -- if you don't like different and wish everything was like a 1000S or V7 Sport, which I would rather own than many new bikes of any brand, there's good news.  You can buy Tonti frames, motors, parts both NOS and custom all over the place and build what you like.  If you want to embrace the future, well, it's a comin'!

[gentlemanjim]

dgurovich thanks for sttting the record straight - my sentiments exactly.

[kevdog3019]

Times have changed since the V7 Sport came along.  Now there are tens of bike manufacturers that make amazingly fast, great handling bikes.  Do you think Guzzi could make a bike faster and handle better than the Busa?  Back in the day there was a lot to be figured out with the archaic engines and engineering of great handling bikes.  Guzzi did well to figure that stuff out, but now most everyone has figured it out ten times over.  Do people care?  Some want the fastest and lightest no doubt, but others don't.  You have to look to a niche these days.  Somebody answer me this:  If it's all about handling, speed, and sophistication (water-cooling, lighter metals, etc.), how is Harley's doing it?  Why am I the only one to mention Harley over and over?  Is it because it's hard to admit that archaic designs still sell?  
-Kevin

[Big Block Jon]

Why am I the only one to mention Harley over and over?  Is it because it's hard to admit that archaic designs still sell?

I have an uneasy feeling (and I suspect others share it) that Harley has been riding along on a peculiarly vaporous mixture of image-marketing and Jingoistic "America First" prejudice for an extraordinarily long time. And that the hallucinogenic incense is beginning its inevitable dissipation.

 

[kevdog3019]

I've felt this way myself Jon, but if you look at that piece of engineering dump compared to the Guzzi ditch-pump I don't see how their numbers are so much higher.  I'm only referring to the engine because according to the folks that's what sells a bike.  NOT!!
Guzzi needs some smoke and mirrors like Harley, not an engine.
-Kevin

[rodekyll]

[
The really big question to me is -- Can you convince a traditionalist that a small block is a Cali?  Maybe that's the real intent here -- forming an unsuspecting focus group to see if they can sneak that one over on us.

Its not a small block. The scrambler is a small block, the Cali is a big block. Maybe the rumored 1300 cc or bigger engine. Bring it on, I am ready for a replacement for the EV.


Pete

That makes me feel better. 

Personally I feel the 1100 is big enough for my needs.  It handles about like I wished my old V1000 did.

[Greg Field]

AMF started development on the engine used in the V-Rod in the late 70ies.  They also had a liquid cooled 4 cylinder underdevelopment at the same time.  We were all quit excited and expected Harley to become competitive on the race track again.  Shortly after AMF sold Harley to a "group of investors" who stopped selling motorcycles and started selling Harley Davidson.  Like it or not, they knew what they were doing.
Matt

Sort of true. AMF hired Porsche Design to pen a series of modular engines that could use components in common to make a twin-, a four-, and a six-cylinder engine. This was the NOVA project.

The later V-Rod is a different engine.

Not how I remember it.  When the AMF folks asked the dealer I was working for at the time to take on the Harley line he talked about a V-twin double head cam and a V-four underdevelopment by Porsche.  Both were water cooled.  I do not remember anything being said about a 6 cylinder.  However, as you say, the V-Rod could very well be a different engine.  The next time I see my former BOSS I will ask.  All of that aside we were both sorry to see Harley walk away from the track.  He sold Harley to the current dealer shortly after the "group of investors" purchased Harley from AMF.
Matt
Matt

One day when I was in the Harley archives, I got to sit on three of the NOVA prototypes. One of them had the fairing that they later resurrected on the FXRT. That bike's in the H-D museum right now (or at least was when I was there in November). It was Vaughn Beals, the CEO of Harley that spearheaded the buyback of the company, who told me about the two-four-six bit.

[Moto]

Oh frig.  This is a better image.  Someone please tell me those aren't forward boards?   :(

Wow. That sure is a floorboard, with a heel-and-toe shifter too. That's what looked like a two-into-one pipe in the earlier picture.

All you who have been wanting a modern Eldo just got it!

I could see my wife liking this a lot better than the Griso for two-up trips.

[Kev m]

Harley is doing it for one simple reason 90% of the buying public don't want the fastest, lightest or best handling bike.

Judging from bike sales, at least in the US, most riders want something that is easy to own (I.e. reliable, comfortable,  looks and feels good, easy to find accessories etc.

Sure, a percentage want racers, and some want adventure tourers or some other niche, but at the end of the day most riders want to ride and not worry about needing to scrounge a dealer, accessories or parts.

And THAT is Guzzis' greatest challenge if they need/want growth in the US.

They can water cool some of their motors if need be, or introduce a second line of motors with a different architecture but not unless they preserve or create some brand identity.  Right now the motor layout IS their identity.

[Amboman]

Oh frig.  This is a better image.  Someone please tell me those aren't forward boards?   :(

All you who have been wanting a modern Eldo just got it!

 ::) ::) Don't see any resemblance to an Eldo myself.

I'm betting the reason there are cutouts in the "tank" for the cylinder heads is two-fold: larger cylinders/heads with water-cooling and a very wide "tank" with gauges mounted on top.

[Bill929]

I'm with Rocker59 on the California - long and low - I like it...  and I think a V7 Scrambler is a great idea. 

[Greg Field]

Nuovo California:  Long and Low.  Nice.  Twin shocks, but an odd looking left side of the swingarm.  I'm wondering if they've got a new casting based on the CARC, but one which has a left side...  Twin shocks for the purists!  Pipe appears for all the world to be a 2:1 left-side.  I'd sure like to see a right side photo.  I agree with others.  from the looks of it, the fuel may not be in the fuel tank, but lower and partially under the seat, ala Ducati Multistrada, maybe?  I like the seat.  The bike looks edgy and modern.  There is something about the styling that makes me think GL1000 instead of Ambo/Eldo, though, and that sorta bothers me...  Overall, I like it.  Can't wait to see more!

V7 Scrambler?  Yep.  Sweet!  Brang it!

When we were shown the mockups, we were told that the specific "spiritual" (not stylistic) inspiration for new Cali was the Road King. This differs substantially in look from what we were shown.

[Amboman]

I'll pose the question I always ask when we discuss whatever new liquid-cooled engine has been mentioned in the media: what engine configuration should "Guzzi" adopt that will be as identifiable as their own rather than just another "me too" effort? Just about every configuration has been-there-done-that to death by some other manufacturer. Triple - Triumph. Flat-four - Honda. Flat-six - Honda. Inline-six - BMW now. V-four - Honda. Inline-four - everybody (really worked well the first time Guzzi/Benelli tried!). Flat-twin - BMW. V-Twin (transverse crank) - everybody. Parallel-twin - Triumph, Norton. What's that leave? V6, V8, maybe a wide angle V-twin (120 like the Bicilindrica), radial? 

[bad Chad]

Great question Amboman, I would really love to here what Greg has to say on this one.

[moltoguzzi]

Guzzi could possibly be resurrected,  

You are kidding right?! First Guzzi isn't dead and no resurrection necessary! Second, Guzzi has put out as many and in many cases more truly new products(New engines, frames) not just derivatives than most manufacturers and certainly more than the largest M/C maker, our own HD. What is necessary is supporting Guzzi whenever possible by buying these new products and again whenever possible support those local dealers that are trying. I visit other manufacturers forums and have not seen the kind of negativity toward their brand this board shows on a regular basis.
 

[Greg Field]

Guzzi could possibly be resurrected,  

You are kidding right?! First Guzzi isn't dead and no resurrection necessary! Second, Guzzi has put out as many and in many cases more truly new products(New engines, frames) not just derivatives than most manufacturers and certainly more than the largest M/C maker, our own HD. What is necessary is supporting Guzzi whenever possible by buying these new products and again whenever possible support those local dealers that are trying. I visit other manufacturers forums and have not seen the kind of negativity toward their brand this board shows on a regular basis.
 

Not kidding.

[Travman]

I'll pose the question I always ask when we discuss whatever new liquid-cooled engine has been mentioned in the media: what engine configuration should "Guzzi" adopt that will be as identifiable as their own rather than just another "me too" effort? Just about every configuration has been-there-done-that to death by some other manufacturer. Triple - Triumph. Flat-four - Honda. Flat-six - Honda. Inline-six - BMW now. V-four - Honda. Inline-four - everybody (really worked well the first time Guzzi/Benelli tried!). Flat-twin - BMW. V-Twin (transverse crank) - everybody. Parallel-twin - Triumph, Norton. What's that leave? V6, V8, maybe a wide angle V-twin (120 like the Bicilindrica), radial? 

Perhaps a longitudinally mounted V4. Honda has done it with their ST1100 & ST1300 but they are not known for it.  Guzzi could make it their own and then be known for longitudinally mounted V2's and V4's.

[rodekyll]

Guzzi could possibly be resurrected,  

You are kidding right?! First Guzzi isn't dead and no resurrection necessary! Second, Guzzi has put out as many and in many cases more truly new products(New engines, frames) not just derivatives than most manufacturers and certainly more than the largest M/C maker, our own HD. What is necessary is supporting Guzzi whenever possible by buying these new products and again whenever possible support those local dealers that are trying. I visit other manufacturers forums and have not seen the kind of negativity toward their brand this board shows on a regular basis.
 

Just for accuracy -- Honda is the largest motorcycle mfgr, followed by Yamaha.  Both labels easily outstrip Guzzi in terms of 'truly new' products.

And my opinion:  I don't donate to for-profit organizations by choice.  That's not the way business works.  It is not necessary that I buy whatever crap Guzzi serves up for no other reason than to support them.  Me on a tupperware/fly-by-wire/where's-my-key-labeled-TUESDAY bike?  That's just stupid.  If they want my business, they necessarily need to offer me something I think is useful, and then be responsive to me as an owner.  At present they fail at both levels.

[moltoguzzi]

Why am I the only one to mention Harley over and over?  Is it because it's hard to admit that archaic designs still sell?

I have an uneasy feeling (and I suspect others share it) that Harley has been riding along on a peculiarly vaporous mixture of image-marketing and Jingoistic "America First" prejudice for an extraordinarily long time. And that the hallucinogenic incense is beginning its inevitable dissipation.

 

I can report with certainty that HD will be riding the vaporous mixture wave for a long time. I happened to take a break at an HD dealership, (Yes, they do have the cleanest bathroom in town), while their HOG chapter was having a recruiting drive, the brainwashing is on par or greater than the "Third Reich". Other brands are refered to as brand X, and what is talked about is the experience, the comradeship, the accessories and customization. The average age was about 45 and solid middle/working class, with a few 30's & 60's something. It was a bit unreal but then again how many pay large fees to belong to clubs just to belong somewhere.  

[kevdog3019]

Harley is doing it for one simple reason 90% of the buying public don't want the fastest, lightest or best handling bike.

Judging from bike sales, at least in the US, most riders want something that is easy to own (I.e. reliable, comfortable,  looks and feels good, easy to find accessories etc.

Sure, a percentage want racers, and some want adventure tourers or some other niche, but at the end of the day most riders want to ride and not worry about needing to scrounge a dealer, accessories or parts.

And THAT is Guzzis' greatest challenge if they need/want growth in the US.

They can water cool some of their motors if need be, or introduce a second line of motors with a different architecture but not unless they preserve or create some brand identity.  Right now the motor layout IS their identity.

Amen Kevin!  This engine IS their identity.  It's the first thing I recognize a Guzzi by.  I have yet to hear what others have to say about what configuration they think Guzzi should adopt.  I've spilled my guts now... lets hear some specifics on what people want.  Greg seems to be the biggest proponent for change and someone that has great insight, so lets hear what he has to say.
-Kevin  

[Mark West]

I like the general lines but not sure about those floorboards. They look way too forward for my taste. But then you'll probably be able to bolt on the lower frame rails from any old Tonti and go back to pegs.

Whatever the case, I'm glad to see them doing something with the Cali line. It'll be interesting to see what eventually is offered to the public.

[Big Block Jon]

They look way too forward for my taste.

Seems like the rider's knees would conflict with the covers it that's where the boards are.

[Greg Field]

Guzzi has built just about every engine configuration in its past. Piaggio needs to decide what sort of bikes Guzzi should build, and then choose the best engine design for that usage. They need to be rational.

Look at that new Cali. It's a cruiser/light tourer modeled to be an Italian Road King. All the successful bikes in this category have low seat heights that are arrived at by the same means: stretch the chassis and move the controls forward. That's even tougher to do on a Guzzi because the cylinders are in the way if the controls are moved forward. It's not the right engine for the job.

[moltoguzzi]

Guzzi could possibly be resurrected,  

You are kidding right?! First Guzzi isn't dead and no resurrection necessary! Second, Guzzi has put out as many and in many cases more truly new products(New engines, frames) not just derivatives than most manufacturers and certainly more than the largest M/C maker, our own HD. What is necessary is supporting Guzzi whenever possible by buying these new products and again whenever possible support those local dealers that are trying. I visit other manufacturers forums and have not seen the kind of negativity toward their brand this board shows on a regular basis.
 

Just for accuracy -- Honda is the largest motorcycle mfgr, followed by Yamaha.  Both labels easily outstrip Guzzi in terms of 'truly new' products.

And my opinion:  I don't donate to for-profit organizations by choice.  That's not the way business works.  It is not necessary that I buy whatever crap Guzzi serves up for no other reason than to support them.  Me on a tupperware/fly-by-wire/where's-my-key-labeled-TUESDAY bike?  That's just stupid.  If they want my business, they necessarily need to offer me something I think is useful, and then be responsive to me as an owner.  At present they fail at both levels.

Just for accuracy HD is the largest motorcycle manufacrurer, only when you include scooters do the others become first! Where is the crap that Guzzi is serving up? A lot of crap does get dished out here but not by Guzzi! They failed you at both levels?! Get real, or at least reasonable, did you EVER buy a new Guzzi?! For 2011 all they did IS respond to customers requests with the Norge and the Stelvio improvements. I bet less than 1 percent on this board ever bought a new Guzzi, including myself but then I don't bash and bitch about Guzzi this and Guzzi that. This should be called the anti-Guzzi board. Bad Chad and others who truly appreciate and support Guzzi for other reasons than a low resale value excluded.

[Greg Field]

Guzzi could possibly be resurrected,  

You are kidding right?! First Guzzi isn't dead and no resurrection necessary! Second, Guzzi has put out as many and in many cases more truly new products(New engines, frames) not just derivatives than most manufacturers and certainly more than the largest M/C maker, our own HD. What is necessary is supporting Guzzi whenever possible by buying these new products and again whenever possible support those local dealers that are trying. I visit other manufacturers forums and have not seen the kind of negativity toward their brand this board shows on a regular basis.
 

Just for accuracy -- Honda is the largest motorcycle mfgr, followed by Yamaha.  Both labels easily outstrip Guzzi in terms of 'truly new' products.

And my opinion:  I don't donate to for-profit organizations by choice.  That's not the way business works.  It is not necessary that I buy whatever crap Guzzi serves up for no other reason than to support them.  Me on a tupperware/fly-by-wire/where's-my-key-labeled-TUESDAY bike?  That's just stupid.  If they want my business, they necessarily need to offer me something I think is useful, and then be responsive to me as an owner.  At present they fail at both levels.

Just for accuracy HD is the largest motorcycle manufacrurer, only when you include scooters do the others become first! Where is the crap that Guzzi is serving up? A lot of crap does get dished out here but not by Guzzi! They failed you at both levels?! Get real, or at least reasonable, did you EVER buy a new Guzzi?! For 2011 all they did IS respond to customers requests with the Norge and the Stelvio improvements. I bet less than 1 percent on this board ever bought a new Guzzi, including myself but then I don't bash and bitch about Guzzi this and Guzzi that. This should be called the anti-Guzzi board. Bad Chad and others who truly appreciate and support Guzzi for other reasons than a low resale value excluded.

4/10 on that rant.

So you and Chad are the anti-anti-Guzzi board members?  ;D

[moltoguzzi]

Guzzi could possibly be resurrected,  

You are kidding right?! First Guzzi isn't dead and no resurrection necessary! Second, Guzzi has put out as many and in many cases more truly new products(New engines, frames) not just derivatives than most manufacturers and certainly more than the largest M/C maker, our own HD. What is necessary is supporting Guzzi whenever possible by buying these new products and again whenever possible support those local dealers that are trying. I visit other manufacturers forums and have not seen the kind of negativity toward their brand this board shows on a regular basis.
 

Just for accuracy -- Honda is the largest motorcycle mfgr, followed by Yamaha.  Both labels easily outstrip Guzzi in terms of 'truly new' products.

And my opinion:  I don't donate to for-profit organizations by choice.  That's not the way business works.  It is not necessary that I buy whatever crap Guzzi serves up for no other reason than to support them.  Me on a tupperware/fly-by-wire/where's-my-key-labeled-TUESDAY bike?  That's just stupid.  If they want my business, they necessarily need to offer me something I think is useful, and then be responsive to me as an owner.  At present they fail at both levels.

Just for accuracy HD is the largest motorcycle manufacrurer, only when you include scooters do the others become first! Where is the crap that Guzzi is serving up? A lot of crap does get dished out here but not by Guzzi! They failed you at both levels?! Get real, or at least reasonable, did you EVER buy a new Guzzi?! For 2011 all they did IS respond to customers requests with the Norge and the Stelvio improvements. I bet less than 1 percent on this board ever bought a new Guzzi, including myself but then I don't bash and bitch about Guzzi this and Guzzi that. This should be called the anti-Guzzi board. Bad Chad and others who truly appreciate and support Guzzi for other reasons than a low resale value excluded.

4/10 on that rant.

So you and Chad are the anti-anti-Guzzi board members?  ;D

First, good to hear from you, what are you up to, I hope it has to do with Italian motorcycles? Unfortunately its not just a rant but factual rant against anti-Guzzi Guzzisti rant, got that.  ;D