Norge front suspension. Newbie question

[lsrxc]

Hello all. Just purchased a 2014 Norge. Never had a adjustable front fork bike before, and the owner's manual didn't give much detail on adjustments other than turns for preload.

There are two adjustments on left and right legs. Are they preload adjustments for that particular leg? What's confusing is that the left adjuster, from full open to close, is about 14 revs while the right is 3.5.

Currently, the ride is rather harsh with the 3rd world roads in Illinois. Are there any tips on adjustments to soften the ride?

Everywhere I read about the fronts state preload adjustment only, so I'm not sure why the difference in revolutions. Appreciate any advice or information that can fill in the blanks. Love the Norge by the way.

[ItsForrest]

I bought a new leftover '12 Norge a few months ago which I believe has the same forks. 
Note that Guzzi has never been afraid of changing things along the way without documenting so I may be wrong, but...
I'm a big guy at about 280lbs but find the forks rather harsh as well. The spring rate seems ok with me with some preload added but the damping is rather stiff except when riding fairly fast and hard. I talked to the guys at Moto International and was told that I should give the front end at least 1,000 miles to settle in before making any mods or upgrades. Well, it has about 1,200 miles on it now and the forks don't feel much different. I may be experimenting with different fork oil weights but don't have the budget to do much more than that these days.

To your original question: Both knobs are spring preload. I have seen a few comments about the knobs being rather stiff or sticky. It may be worth working them back and forth a few times to see if they free up and give you more range.

Note that adjusting the spring preload really doesn't make the forks and more or less stiff or compliant, it will only change the sag, ride height, or where the forks ride within the range of travel. 

Fork tops look like the pic below, right? Small hex over bigger hex? Both the same? Small hex is the spring preload, large hex is the fork cap. Probably don't want to unscrew the big hex.

[lsrxc]

Thanks for the response. Yes, there is a small hex over the large, just like your picture.
I do notice a slight friction points along the way when rotating the adjusters, but it takes little effort to overcome. I'll try to do the wiggle when I get more resistance, but it really does feel like it's at the end of it's travel.

Just strange that the revolution gap between the legs are that significant. Also, the large hex on the right rotates along with the small, while the left does not. Is that something you're experiencing as well?

[Waltr]

The large hex would do the same on my leftover 2012 until I lubed with silicone.  Keeping the damping up in the rear helps the front

[ItsForrest]

The big hex is the actual top of the fork and should remain snugly seated. The torque for the top cap is only 20Nm or ~15ft/lbs so you shouldn't over tighten it, but it should not be turning along with the small hex, which is your spring preload adjuster. If you ride with the large hex not all the way snug, it may not be holding by enough threads and may run the risk of stripping and allowing the fork to collapse.

On my bike, when new, the adjusters were all the way out. The only way they would turn is in or clockwise. Turning the counter-clockwise would unscrew the top cap on the fork. While my fork adjusters turned easy enough using a socket on a long extension to clear the handlebars, it would not surprise me if they weren't lubed properly from the factory and were hard to turn. Pushing down on the adjuster while turning may help fight the springs tendency to add friction to the adjuster threads.

According to the owner's manual, the adjuster should have about 5 total turns from max to min.

For me, at 280lbs, 3 full turns in on the fork preload put me at ~ 1.5 inches or 33% sag with just me on the bike. This is in line with the manual which states 0 - 3 turns in for normal to medium load.
On the rear shock, 25 clicks on the preload adjust from all the way out put me in the same ~33% sag, which is once again in line with the manual's suggestions. The rear has more travel so I set sag there at ~1.75 inches.

The rear shock does have rebound damping adjustment but not compression adjustment. I haven't dialed that in but I know I need to increase rebound damping as the rear tends to over extend on repeated bumps. If it tends to load up or sink and not return over multiple hits, the rebound damping would need to be reduced.

[Hellgate]

I'll post a link to a how to later today. Start by setting static sag, then dynamic sag, then damping. You may need to consider different weight springs and preload only takes available travel out of the suspension.

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[gahellinger]

As an owner of a '14 Norge, I am also interested in learning of the suspension adjustments for this bike. The owner manual is minimalistic at best.

Thanks.

George

[nikwax]

It's good to see more 8V Norge owners around!


I think ItsForrest is giving great advice here. There's not much adjustment to the front suspension. Mine was mis-adjusted from the factory, and I also had the deal where one of the fork tops was not securely clamped. It is harsh, and I agree that it has to do with the damping (which is not adjustable). On the other hand, I've never had it dive, and overall for OEM suspension it's OK.


The rear has a good deal of adjustment in both spring preload and damping. Again, it's a bit on the harsh side, but not bad for OEM suspension. It actually rides and handles really well with a full load.


Better suspension is available but be prepared to shell out $$$.

[Seeker67]

As an owner of a '14 Norge, I am also interested in learning of the suspension adjustments for this bike. The owner manual is minimalistic at best.

+1 (Though in my case I just bought a new '12 Norge)

To me, the front end seems to dive every time I touch the front brake and I'd like to hear how to minimize that behavior.  So far I've been chicken to try any adjustments for fear of breaking something.

[lsrxc]

I have the first service soon, but I think there's a bind with the right small and large hex. ItsForrest's note about the big hex being the top of the fork seems strange considering I can't seem to turn the small without the large following it. I'll invest in some dealer time to get this figured out.


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[frans belgium]

Much is said and written about the stiffer (and better) suspension of the new Norge 8V as opposed to the previous model and the Breva.
After experimenting with a lot of different set ups, my final conclusion was that the rear spring was still too soft for our combined weight and travelling gear, making the bike sit on the tail and the front was too stiff and thus harsh.
Swapped the rear for after market hagons and the front for Hyperpro progressives.  Made this a different bike alltogether.

[guzziks]

Go to the racetech site, they have a manual on setting the suspension.  Measuring and setting sag is time consuming , but easy if you have help.   Also just search on motorcycle suspension and you will get a bunch of stuff.

If the loaded and unloaded sag don't fall into the "suggested" range then you get into changing springs, which is a lot of trouble.   The only damping adjustment is the rear rebound.  

Warning, if the big nut is turning whist you are trying to adjust the front preload, you could have a big problem if the bike front end is on the ground and the big nut , fork top cap, is almost unscrewed.  The loaded spring could strip out a few threads and shoot the nut out.  Then the bike will drop down, only supported by one fork, and much pain getting it all back together.

If the fork top cap is to be removed, the fork must be unloaded, the preload adjuster backed off all the way.  Even then as you unscrew the fork cap , you must keep pressure on the cap until it is fully unscrewed.

I have some goog articles on this stuff, but no way to add to this forum.  

Also go to traxxion suspension for more info.  Unfortunately, over the years they seemed to have removed a lot of the how to do it stuff.  I guess they want you to call.

[lsrxc]

Just back from the initial service. And both adjusters will have to be replaced.
- The right one, which has the large hex rotating with the small, is jammed. Not sure if it came that way from the factory, or if it was something I did. I think the former.
- The left one, apparently I broke the "stop", so the small hex keeps turning out.

At this point, once these get replaced, I'm not going to touch it. I followed the owners manual exactly on the adjustment procedure, and didn't feel that I've overcranked the bolts in any way (I'm generally carefull about that). I'll just deal with it. No idea why the simple instructions from the manual jazzed up the adjusters.

Please keep this in mind for you new Norge owners out there. Love the bike anyways. Thanks for your help and advice.

[nikwax]

One thing I've found in the manual was that whoever did the English translation didn't do a great job of it. There are obvious mistakes between up and down, left and right, clockwise and anti-clockwise.

[canuguzzi]

Up/down, clockwise and counter(anti) clockwise, left and right are all relative to the perspective of the manual writer as well as what part is actually moving.

Example: When you screw down a fork adjuster you might think the nut is moving down to compress the spring. To the writer, the fork is extending and thus raising the bike relative to the ground so it is moving up. You are screwing down the nut but the effect is to raise the tubes in the fork.

It can drive you crazy unless you know the perspective of the writer. Always proceed with caution till you figure our the perspective.

[guzziks]

iSRXC,  you didn't break anything unless you really beared down.  These are not high quality forks and probably came the way you found them.  The adjuster/fork cap is just a threaded screw that goes up/down to press on the fork spring.

Also it never makes the fork stiffer or softer, although the terms are used a lot.  The spring rate is the same no matter how much or little screwing you do.  Unfortunately there is not much you can do if the fork will not follow road irregularities since there is no compression or rebound hydraulic adjustment.

[ItsForrest]

You're correct that unless you have some pretty sophisticated suspension, (these forks are simple damper rod forks, not high-tech stuff) you are not making the fork stiffer by adding pre-load. This can be really hard to explain to many or most folks. And let's be honest, most of us don't push our bikes hard enough to care. Just remember that adjusting spring pre-load is really just adjusting ride height.
 
You can adjust damping by changing to different weight fork oil. Yes, you have to remove the wheel, brakes, etc. and remove the forks to drain and refill them so it is not a simple adjustment for most folks. I recently changed out the stock fork oil, which the manual says is 15wt, for 10 wt BelRay fork oil. Just by pouring the old oil out and new in, it was evident that the new oil was significantly thinner that the stock fluid.

It is worthy of noting that fork oil viscosity or weight is not consistent from brand to brand. If you want to experiment with different weight oils, stick to the same brand. It's quite possible for example, that the stock oil, which they spec at 15wt, is closer to 20wt Belray. 

I have not had a chance to try any fast riding out in the twisties but I have ridden in city traffic on typical crappy city roads and freeways. The front end is much more compliant and controlled. It doesn't feel like it's bouncing off the road over moderate bumps like it did before. On the down side, going to lighter oil does allow more dive under hard braking.

The fork caps are held captive by the handlebar castings. You do need to break them loose while the forks are in the clamps but they will not come out unless/until you either remove the bars or remove the forks from the clamps. Once the caps are off, it is a very good idea to lube the adjuster threads and o-rings and work them through their adjustment range a few times before re-installing them.

[guzzied]

Hello,

 I'm a new 2014 Norge owner (have had it for 2 weeks now) and find the front forks way too soft, meaning way too much fork dive when using the front brake. It forces you to ease the front brake on, which is hard to do with the Brembo's as they feel really grabby. The rear suspension with the preload turned all the way up and rebound adjusted 6 clicks out, has way too much sag for riding 2 up (220 lb. rider with leathers/helmet plus wife, 150 lbs, with full leathers/helmet).  I guess I was spoiled with my 2003 Rosso Corsa, as with the Ohlins suspension, all was good out of the box, even riding 2 up.

I have purchased the Matris front fork kit and am also thinking about a Wilber's rear shock with an external preload adjuster. I was quoted about $850. from a local dealer and it seems the cheapest way to go. 

Anyone else having the same problems?

Thanks, Mike