2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest

[Dogwalker]

Torque curve comparison, V7 classic (pre - single throttle body) vs V75 4V

[jas67]

Wow!    That's a significant difference!

[moltoguzzi]

You really need to move somewhere with more corners then!

Kurt

Dear Mr. Kurt. You and many here are living in a Guzzi fantasy world were 38hp to the crank is all you need. BUT power is not for 100% of the times, its for when you need it, as when stuck behind a slower vehicle on a two lane twisty mountain hwy.. Or when accelerating on a short on ramp. Or when in traffic and you need quick acceleration to save your bacon. Engine power is needed just as much as brake power. No one here would ride a bike with weak brakes. My HD883 is great for around town and running errands, BUT would not even think of taking a long trip because of lack of engine and brake power.

[kevdog3019]

Wow!    That's a significant difference!

You should feel the yeehaa difference between the upper revs of the V65 8 valve vs. the V75 4 valve even though overall torque is not greater. They simply keep pulling and it's darned addictive.

If this was the only thing Guzzi changed they would have a fantastic solution in keeping everything intact as far as what exists, yet appeal to the throttle twisters who want that something extra. Win/win.

[roadscum]

I understand what you're saying, but the extreme example is meant to illustrate the downside and there is a sliding scale between the two where you lose the desirable characteristics of one when you go toward the other.

And as I've already said. I will ride the V7 in my garage 9 out of 10 times over the Duc 696.

The  characteristic you seek is a SLOW bike? What am I missing?

Paul

[Kev m]

Dear Mr. Kurt. You and many here are living in a Guzzi fantasy world were 38hp to the crank is all you need. BUT power is not for 100% of the times, its for when you need it, as when stuck behind a slower vehicle on a two lane twisty mountain hwy.. Or when accelerating on a short on ramp. Or when in traffic and you need quick acceleration to save your bacon. Engine power is needed just as much as brake power. No one here would ride a bike with weak brakes. My HD883 is great for around town and running errands, BUT would not even think of taking a long trip because of lack of engine and brake power.

Point of order 50 hp to the crank.

And perhaps you should learn better riding techniques because one of my buddies rode his 07 883 from PA to Alaska and back. Another has over 100k on his 05.

Jenn rode from PA to FL and back on her 05 883L the first month she owned it and THAT was the middle of winter.

Hell, I've got two friends I've mentioned who tour on their 883's regularly. Their last trip was PA to Milwaukee and the UP. Of course this if the same couple who rode from Miami to Philly with her on a Rebel 250 before she got the 883.

This conversation is therefore about DESIRE and NOT about NEED.

Now about that time my buddy and I pulled away from and lost two JAPanInc  Sportbike in the twisty road through French Creek State Forest on a pair of 883's. ;)

[Kev m]

The  characteristic you seek is a SLOW bike? What am I missing?

Paul

What are you missing? Thanks for the setup, but I'll refrain from the cheap shots. ;)

You're missing my point. I'm seeking a bike that is FUN closer to legal limits.

I'm seeking a bike that I can run through the gears without breaking the speed limit (or the ton), by SECOND.

I'm seeking a bike I can work through the tight corners and not take the Dragon or the road to Tortilla Flats in only 1st and 2nd because anything else is too much for the road.

Even the Duc 696 tempts one above the ton and doesn't feel as fun at 80 mph in a sweeper as my V7 does at 70.

[kevdog3019]

Something to ponder.  An 8 valve motor likes to sit up in the revs a bit more than the 4 valve (at least in comparison to the comparable big and small blocks at the time of my comparison).  I had a Centauro, a V11 Lemans, a Breva 750, and 2 Larios.  The 8 Valves smoothed out at around 5k RPM and the 4 valves at around 4K RPM (give or take a couple).  Both bikes were 5 speed and geared lower.  The lower gearing makes perfect sense really.  However, gearing has no bearing on engine speed smoothness as RPM's are RPM's.  I've changed gearing and it made no difference so can't argue that fact.  In other words, if you go by feel with the motor, there's less shifting on the 8 valve motor because they simply settle in higher.  So... Guzzi throws a 6th gear in now??  Hmmm...  makes me wonder.  I've got the same gearing in my Lario now as a common V65 (changed out primary) with 16" wheels and my cruising speed RPM at 70mph is 4800.  That is where the bikes engine is happiest to begin its settling in.  I, for one, would NOT want a 6 speed in a higher revving bike unless it was geared identical to what's there in the 5 speed with the addition of a 6th gear for when you want to do the ton.  If they're essentially spreading 5 out over 6 gears I think it's a waste.  I also don't think they need more help down low from the current gearing on the sb engines.  

I get that it's an upgraded box and easier for them to manufacture, and the marketing department has something to write about.  From that perspective I'm fine with the change.  But, I'm not overly excited from a "real-world" perspective on need if they go to 8 valve heads.  Just my perspective on 8-valve heads through the years.  Don't know the current 8-valve heads so would love to hear others on that.  

[roadscum]

What are you missing? Thanks for the setup, but I'll refrain from the cheap shots. ;)

You're missing my point. I'm seeking a bike that is FUN closer to legal limits.

I'm seeking a bike that I can run through the gears without breaking the speed limit (or the ton), by SECOND.

I'm seeking a bike I can work through the tight corners and not take the Dragon or the road to Tortilla Flats in only 1st and 2nd because anything else is too much for the road.

Even the Duc 696 temps one above the ton and doesn't feel as fun at 80 mph in a sweeper as my V7 does at 70.

Did not attempt to set you up Kev, Just want to understand the reasoning behind your comments.

Paul

[Tazturtle]

Dear Mr. Kurt. You and many here are living in a Guzzi fantasy world were 38hp to the crank is all you need. BUT power is not for 100% of the times, its for when you need it, as when stuck behind a slower vehicle on a two lane twisty mountain hwy.. Or when accelerating on a short on ramp. Or when in traffic and you need quick acceleration to save your bacon. Engine power is needed just as much as brake power. No one here would ride a bike with weak brakes. My HD883 is great for around town and running errands, BUT would not even think of taking a long trip because of lack of engine and brake power.

I beg to differ. You and many others are living in a fantasy world about how much power you actually NEED on the road. My old V7R had no problems in any of those situations with about 50HP at the crank. My current modded 848 runs about 140HP at the crank and is no more enjoyable, or that much faster on the road, wherever there are corners.

But i spend 90% of my riding in back road twisties - YMMV.

Each to their own, but why people who dont own a V7 and have no intention of buying one spend so much time whining about them is puzzling. Get a hobby!

Kurt

[Tazturtle]

And though I'm no racer, I don't pussy my 848.

[moltoguzzi]

I beg to differ. You and many others are living in a fantasy world about how much power you actually NEED on the road. My old V7R had no problems in any of those situations with about 50HP at the crank. My current modded 848 runs about 140HP at the crank and is no more enjoyable, or that much faster on the road, wherever there are corners.

But i spend 90% of my riding in back road twisties - YMMV.

Each to their own, but why people who dont own a V7 and have no intention of buying one spend so much time whining about them is puzzling. Get a hobby!

Kurt

************************************************* No need to get all defensive and insulting. I ride an EV1064 and use all of its engine power(7800rpm) on twisty roads as I'm in second most of the time and third if there is enough straight between corners. While its true that the V7 will corner as good as the EV, its not true that it will power out of the corner as good as the EV, I have ridden a 2012 racer on the same roads as the EV so its not an opinion, its a fact.
Dear Kev M. I know riders that traveled to Alaska and around the globe on Vespas and other small cc's two wheelers and the fact that your wife rode it to Florida proves what many here have stated, "The V7 is a GIRL bike".

[jas67]

****************************************************

 :pop

[Kev m]

************************************************************** No need to get all defensive and insulting. I ride an EV1064 and use all of its engine power(7800rpm) on twisty roads as I'm in second most of the time and third if there is enough straight between corners. While its true that the V7 will corner as good as the EV, its not true that it will power out of the corner as good as the EV, I have ridden a 2012 racer on the same roads as the EV so its not an opinion, its a fact.
Dear Kev M. I know riders that traveled to Alaska and around the globe on Vespas and other small cc's two wheelers and the fact that your wife rode it to Florida proves what many here have stated, "The V7 is a GIRL bike".

OK, forget it. I'm not being defensive, I'm carrying on a conversation and I'm not gonna waste my time throwing around moronic insults

You would do well to listen and perhaps educate yourself.

For example, the power-to-weight ratio of the EV is almost identical to the new V7. I put a happy 40k on my Jackal, but it was materially no quicker. I base this not on one demo ride but 7k miles on my V7 and specs.

Also on the one hand you say you can't tour on an 883 cause it's too slow, then when I provide examples to the contrary you admit to knowing someone who has toured extreme distances on something less powerful. ;D

And uh you lost me on what Jenn has to do with the V7 as I've only talked about her riding her 883, 1200 or Duc, but no matter.

I tried to explain my preferences and points on this. A sliding scale of balance between performance and efficiency, of real world usability allowing you to push the bike a little without as great a risk to life and limb vs riding a super bike at 2/10ths.

Feel free to disagree with preferences, but at least respond with some real world facts and experience.

But if you can't or your logic fails and all you can do is start calling names that's kinda sad.

I'm out, ride safe.

No animosity meant.

[sib]

Aside from the gratuitous snarky comments, this thread beautifully illustrates how great it is that there is a huge range of motorcycle types available, something to suit everyone's taste.  Without needing to disparage other folks' taste, I can unapologetically state my preference for the V7 line.  I neither need nor want more power or weight to satisfy my cycling needs.  If my choice were limited to bigger bikes, I probably wouldn't be riding at all.  In other areas of my life, I drive a Prius rather than a Hummer, Corvette, or Ferrari, my house is mid sized instead of a McMansion or one-room apartment, and I only have one wife rather than being a bachelor or polygamist.  To each his/her own.  Enjoy!

[Penderic]

If more, more, more is what you like, have I got a girl for you! (Not really.  ;) )


Or how aboot a bike that makes you work out each ride. No pain No gain.

[roadscum]

If more, more, more is what you like, have I got a girl for you! (Not really.  ;) )


Or how aboot a bike that makes you work out each ride. No pain No gain.

For the ride of your life!   ;D

Pul

[Tazturtle]

************************************************* No need to get all defensive and insulting. I ride an EV1064 and use all of its engine power(7800rpm) on twisty roads as I'm in second most of the time and third if there is enough straight between corners. While its true that the V7 will corner as good as the EV, its not true that it will power out of the corner as good as the EV, I have ridden a 2012 racer on the same roads as the EV so its not an opinion, its a fact.
Dear Kev M. I know riders that traveled to Alaska and around the globe on Vespas and other small cc's two wheelers and the fact that your wife rode it to Florida proves what many here have stated, "The V7 is a GIRL bike".

Sorry Molto - It was never my intent to insult you or anyone else. I'm not sure where in my post I did that!?

The fact remains that you and others complain on a thread about a bike you don't own and apparently have no intention of buying. It's all a bit bizarre! By the standards of modern sports bikes, wouldn't the HP of an EV and in fact every road Guzzi ever made make them "girl's bikes"?

Not that I like that term - because I know some very capable and fast female riders.

I'm all for live and let live and thank goodness everyone has different tastes in their two wheeled machines.  I guess I really don't get why so many whine about the V7s - which are great real world road bikes.

Kurt



Kurt

[guzziboy66]

And though I'm no racer, I don't pussy my 848.

C'mon Taz.  Sheesh - There's like an 1/8" left to use there.  You're wasting rubber man.  Stop going easy on the tire an lean that bike a little. :BEER:

Disclaimer: I'm making a joke here and not intending to insult Taz or his tire with the skinny little chicken strips.  Really - I'm not.

[Tazturtle]

Ha ha Eric. I always like to keep a 1/8" margin for safety on the street... :p

Back on topic: i guess if i only had 50 more HP they'd be gone!!!

Kurt

[Matteo]

I got a chance to to ride a 2014 V7 Stone at Portland Inernational Raceway courtesy of Portland Moto Guzzi last August and was very impressed. I was able to easily pass the bigger bikes on the corners and had power to hit the ton on the straights. I am in the hunt for one now. I like the new 6 speed with ABS. Add the record kit fairing and have some fun.

[sib]

I sure wish there were some way to persuade Moto Guzzi to release the 6-sp. V7s in the US soon, rather than their plan to introduce them a year from now as 2016 models, as my dealer informed me.  I'm willing to take the risk of being an early adopter.

[MRLost]

Holy Cow.

Go faster. Go slower. More power. Less power. Five gears. Six gears. Faster. Faster still. Can I go faster? Do you want to go faster? Why? Why not?

I have a 2013 V7 Stone with the Kaifa forks. My question, to any who may know the answer, is - will the V7II have Kaifa forks or something better?

I have four bikes, including the V7, and they're all pretty good bikes. Of them all, the V7's suspension is ... in the greatest need of enhancement.

I realize I have options to improve the V7's suspension and I fully intend to implement one of those options. Or maybe there is only the Matris option for the forks ... I haven't been able to absolutely pin that down.

But I only want to do this once so I would like to know if the V7II will introduce new and better options for up-grading my forks? And if the V7II has Kaifa forks just like the 2013 and 2014 V7 bikes, what are the odds that additional companies will offer up-grades to those forks? Cuz the stock Kaifa sorta suck. I've ridden worse. But not since about 1978.

I really like this bike but the suspension has just got to be improved or the bike will never live up to its potential. Unless your idea of potential is scaring the living daylights out of yourself in some cranky washboard corner with a come-hither guard-rail on the outside.

Appreciate your thoughts, folks. Chill the flame, please. I'm just old biker trash who seeks a 21st Century suspension for his latest cool scooter.

[Tazturtle]

I'm with you on the forks - and the power thing. The soft Marzocchis on my '11 V7R were its Achilles heel.

Here's my abridged version of the "more power" race since the 60's:

1963 Triumph Bonneville - 46HP
1969 Honda 750 Four - 67HP
1982 Suzuki Katana 1100 - 111HP
1990 Kawasaki ZZR 1100 - 146HP
2000 Suzuki Hayabusa - 175HP
2012 BMW S1000RR - 193HP
2016 Ducati Panigale 1299 210HP??

And over all that time period motorcyclists have spent most of their time on the road around 70mph! How often do any of us spend much time on the road above 100mph?...

Kurt

[Kev m]

I'm with you on the forks - and the power thing. The soft Marzocchis on my '11 V7R were its Achilles heel.

Here's my abridged version of the "more power" race since the 60's:

1963 Triumph Bonneville - 46HP

<snip>

2016 Ducati Panigale 1299 210HP??

And over all that time period motorcyclists have spent most of their time on the road around 70mph! How often do any of us spend much time on the road above 100mph?...

THIS!

I've got ZERO interest in that entire list of bikes except the modern version of the Bonnie and MAYBE MAYBE the modern version of the CB.

[Bill Hagan]

I got a chance to to ride a 2014 V7 Stone at Portland Inernational Raceway courtesy of Portland Moto Guzzi last August and was very impressed. I was able to easily pass the bigger bikes on the corners and had power to hit the ton on the straights. I am in the hunt for one now. I like the new 6 speed with ABS. Add the record kit fairing and have some fun.

I certainly could not keep up with you on the track on any machine, but I may try to do so in purchases ... à la our Norges ... a bit after you and sans fairing.

Decisions, decisions: tractor, mini-split for Moto Grappa, or V7? 

If I space that right, it'll be in that order one year at a time, which gives Mandello time to get it all right for my 70th birthday present to myself in 2017.   ;D

Bill

[kevdog3019]

Holy Cow.

Go faster. Go slower. More power. Less power. Five gears. Six gears. Faster. Faster still. Can I go faster? Do you want to go faster? Why? Why not?

I have a 2013 V7 Stone with the Kaifa forks. My question, to any who may know the answer, is - will the V7II have Kaifa forks or something better?

I have four bikes, including the V7, and they're all pretty good bikes. Of them all, the V7's suspension is ... in the greatest need of enhancement.

I realize I have options to improve the V7's suspension and I fully intend to implement one of those options. Or maybe there is only the Matris option for the forks ... I haven't been able to absolutely pin that down.

But I only want to do this once so I would like to know if the V7II will introduce new and better options for up-grading my forks? And if the V7II has Kaifa forks just like the 2013 and 2014 V7 bikes, what are the odds that additional companies will offer up-grades to those forks? Cuz the stock Kaifa sorta suck. I've ridden worse. But not since about 1978.

I really like this bike but the suspension has just got to be improved or the bike will never live up to its potential. Unless your idea of potential is scaring the living daylights out of yourself in some cranky washboard corner with a come-hither guard-rail on the outside.

Appreciate your thoughts, folks. Chill the flame, please. I'm just old biker trash who seeks a 21st Century suspension for his latest cool scooter.

Maybe with an upgraded hp sb engine will come better suspension.  More of a justification thing.  Think entry-level here (not my words) and you get what you get.  I'd love to see this one stick around while the new one comes out with some goodies on it.  Both parties would be happy. 

[tonUPRacer]

My guess would be any factory front suspension upgrade would be limited to the Racer model and the Stone and Special would retain the lower quality goods. I'm not holding my breath on that one and waiting around for what may or may not happen. I just had the Matris kit installed and I'm now waiting on some weight specific springs for the Bitubos. I'm hoping those upgrades will do the job.

[Yeahoo Whoyah]

I sure wish there were some way to persuade Moto Guzzi to release the 6-sp. V7s in the US soon, rather than their plan to introduce them a year from now as 2016 models, as my dealer informed me.  I'm willing to take the risk of being an early adopter.

 USA has to wait until 2017?  Now that's disappointing.   :(

[Loftness]

More likely 2016, but still stinks