Stelvio CARC failure in Oz AND South Africa

[MotoZA]

No news yet. Hopefully this week. I'll post as soon as I get a reply from Piaggio via my local importer.

[MotoZA]

For those still interested in this: my local agent informed me that the parts are being shipped to Italy for further investigations, but that's all I have for now. I'm sure Piaggio will get to the bottom of this, the Italians pride themselves on the quality of their bikes.

[Vasco DG]

There are many people, myself included, who remain very interested. Thanks for the update.

Pete

[Aaron D.]

Yes, thank you. I don't own a CARC bike but I really like Moto Guzzi and hope this is a complete fluke and that they stand behind their bike.

Besides I am curious!

[oldbike54]

 Glad to see this has been turned into a fact finding mission 

  Dusty

[ridingron]

Quote from: Norge Pilot on October 22, 2015, 11:24:36 PM

Can anyone with a Stelvio post the allowable gross weight of the bike? Should be on a sticker somewhere.



Sticker on the Headstock of my '09 quotes [MAX WEIGHT 495KG]
Given the Bike weighs around 300, that doesn't leave a lot of leeway once you add Rider and Pillion, say 90kg each fully kitted out?
That leaves only 15kg for tools/luggage/extra fuel etc . . .   

For the Muricans in the group. 495KG minus the 300KG bike leaves 195KG. That equals about 429 lbs. The 90KG rider and 90kg pillion equals about 400lbs. 29 lbs doesn't leave a lot of room for luggage.

[WitchCityGuzzi]

I still find it hard to believe that weight alone caused it. Perhaps if the shock bottoms out and the shock is tranmitted to the swing arm. Who knows. I do know that I've loaded the hell out of mine with no ill effect.



This was taken during a cross country trip that included a run up to Alaska and 7000 miles or so back to Massachusetts. For a couple of thousand miles I also had a friend ride as pillion.  The only issue I had was a couple of loose spokes which I nipped up along the way. The bike was loaded with clothes, camping gear, fuel etc. A substantial amount of weight.

It'll be interesting to see what Guzzi finds.

[lucky phil]

My guess would be cyclic loading creating a crack at a stress raising point that being the threaded cable mount hole. The frequency of the loading (arm movement over time interval) and the acceleration of the arm (how fast it moves over a given time period) in combination with the strain imposed (weight) causes the issue.
Thing is there are some many operating variables, combined with manufacturing variables its difficult to predict which will crack and which will be fine. Truth is they will all  almost certainly crack eventually but it may not be before the practicle life of the bike is over anyway.
If I had one of these arms fitted to my bike I would at the very least clean the threads out of the hole and finish the hole interior surface to a high standard and use a rubber well plug to attach the clamp. Garanteed to at least help the situation.
Ciao   

[Kent in Upstate NY]

Here is an article that describes what could be a cause, i.e. a casting issue. http://www.totalmateria.com/Article83.htm

[canuguzzi]

Given the amount of stuff that gets stuffed into rear top cases, its amazing you don't see them cracking and falling off bikes all over the place. After the weight if the top case itself, the loading weight left equals about ibe roll of toilet paper and a box of cotton balls.

[John Warner]

Given the 'litigation-happy' nature of most of the World's Markets nowadays, I'm sure all manufacturers leave a fair-sized 'safety margin' when setting things like weight limits.

[MotoZA]

Piaggio came back and said it's not a factory fault/defect. I have nothing more that that, unfortunately.

Anyway, my bad luck, I suppose.

[jacksonracingcomau]

Piaggio came back and said it's not a factory fault/defect. I have nothing more that that, unfortunately.

Anyway, my bad luck, I suppose.

Good luck I'd say, many places I've been that could of been so much worse, dead not out of question.
Did they say who's fault/defect it was ? Act of God maybe ?

[MotoZA]

No reasons given, no fingers pointed. They cannot claim abuse on my part because the bike has a full service history with the dealers, the bike still looks like new (baring the swing-arm), and the rear shock and wheel didn't get damaged or bent or anything of the sort. I can't claim it's a design fault (the tapped hole) because there are many out there not breaking. So it's a stalemate. There's no point in fighting this, I won't get anywhere, I will just have to buy another bike.

[Vasco DG]

Hate to say it but after my experience yesterday at our importer I'm unsurprised.

[MotoZA]

It is unfortunate.

[MotoZA]

Thanks.

No, it's money I can put towards a new bike. At least I have an interesting story to tell.

[Bonafide Bob]

Piaggio came back and said it's not a factory fault/defect. I have nothing more that that, unfortunately.

Anyway, my bad luck, I suppose.

That sure don't give me a warm fuzzy feeling about Moto Guzzi/Piaggio, it seems to me that they should have at least offered to replace the parts.

Bob

[John A]

Many years ago I was considering working for Maserati/ Moto Guzzi as a tech rep. I asked a friend who worked for them how it would be. He said that besides the low pay they had to tighten up on warranty claims to stay in business and I would probly have to deny claims that should be paid. What's interesting is that after changing ownership a couple times, that still appears to be the same.

[Triple Jim]

That sure don't give me a warm fuzzy feeling about Moto Guzzi/Piaggio, it seems to me that they should have at least offered to replace the parts.

I'm afraid that their lawyers probably decided that replacing the parts free could be viewed as an admission that the problem was their fault, and they don't want to end up in court, defending themselves in an injury suit with that admission already made.

[Bonafide Bob]

I'm afraid that their lawyers probably decided that replacing the parts free could be viewed as an admission that the problem was their fault, and they don't want to end up in court, defending themselves in an injury suit with that admission already made.

I am sure you are correct, but if there are more failures they are going to end up in court anyway.

 Bob

[Triple Jim]

I am sure you are correct, but if there are more failures they are going to end up in court anyway.

Yes, you're right, and they know that, but they won't have already made the admission of guilt when they get there.  The attitude sucks, and I've come across it a few times before, when a highly rated company I'd have expected to replace a failed part just for its customer service reputation refuses and gives a lot of excuses as to what caused the failure, none of which is their fault.

[oldbike54]

Yes, you're right, and they know that, but they won't have already made the admission of guilt when they get there.  The attitude sucks, and I've come across it a few times before, when a highly rated company I'd have expected to replace a failed part just for its customer service reputation refuses and gives a lot of excuses as to what caused the failure, none of which is their fault.

 The John Belushi defense ?

  Dusty

[Bonafide Bob]

Yes, you're right, and they know that, but they won't have already made the admission of guilt when they get there.  The attitude sucks, and I've come across it a few times before, when a highly rated company I'd have expected to replace a failed part just for its customer service reputation refuses and gives a lot of excuses as to what caused the failure, none of which is their fault.

  Let one fail here in the U.S and lawyers will be standing in line to take the case.
  The more I read about Moto Guzzi customer service the better My H.D is looking to me. ;-)
  Bob

[pauldaytona]

Thanks.

No, it's money I can put towards a new bike. At least I have an interesting story to tell.

 So you get a new/used swingarm, put it in and sell the bike?

[canuguzzi]

Never underestimate the ability of lower echelon minions to slow information processing to a crawl.

Do jets not fly from Oz to Italy in a day or is everything done by rowboat? You would think, given the nature of the failure that the swingarm would be packed up and FedExed to Italy the day after the bike was at the dealer and by now there would be some resolution even if only for the individual bike.

That the entire bike wasn't crated and sent to Italy immediately is astounding. What factory would not want to see first hand the bike as it sat to inspect for other damage, clues that indicate how the bike was used and so on?

It isn't like some bungee cord broke loose and the eggs fell off the back seat.

On the other hand, with that kind of failure, the bike wouldn't see a dealer until a factory rep came out and everything got documented at some expert shop so everyone sees everything at the same time and since I own the bike, a documented chain of evidence implemented in case MG decided to blame something else. Once they have it, would you really trust they do more than look out for their own interests?

BTW, that would apply regardless of model, brand or country of origin.

[Vasco DG]

So how about if I send you a swing arm and torque rod gratis? Why? Simply because I can and if you onsell the bike you do it with full disclosure?

I have a real issue with Piaggio at the moment but I love the bikes, just hate the 'Meh! Your problem' attitude.

Pete

[MotoZA]

So how about if I send you a swing arm and torque rod gratis? Why? Simply because I can and if you onsell the bike you do it with full disclosure?

<snip>

Pete

You're not serious, are you?

[Larry]

You're not serious, are you?

Too right he is.

[Vasco DG]

Why would I say it if I wasn't serious?

Pete