750 S3 - the recommisioning

[canuck750]

Jim,

What's your logic for using the NOS side covers on the bike and stashing the originals?

Why not use the originals that will match the tank, and sit on the NOS?

They're only "NOS" once.  You do plan to ride the bike.

Cam

You are right Cam, I got that backwards, NOS get put away and I clean and polish the stock side covers to match the tank. (I should be sleeping but I have to drive family to the airport in 20 minutes ::))

and I will definitely be riding this bike, no trailer queens here.

I got a Brown side stand in the mail today for the S3, what a great piece of kit.


Cheers

Jim

[canuck750]

Good on you Jim,
 i for one appreciate your story and pics. I have a task in front of me, pulling the crank out of the zuke 750 GT. meaning a complete engine strip. I can't yet find the energy to do it after a 4 year restoration. maybe this weekend ?

I can relate to that, I can procrastinate for a long time over a daunting task and when ready throw all caution to the wind and dive in ;D

Cheers

Jim

[Cam3512]

You are right Cam, I got that backwards, NOS get put away and I clean and polish the stock side covers to match the tank. (I should be sleeping but I have to drive family to the airport in 20 minutes ::))

and I will definitely be riding this bike, no trailer queens here.

I got a Brown side stand in the mail today for the S3, what a great piece of kit.


Cheers

Jim

Okay, that makes sense.  Brown side stand was the first thing I added to my LeMans.  Love it!

Cam

[canuck750]

Time to strip the transmission

Home made clutch spline tool from an old clutch plate and a 4 prong socket from Mg Cycle



One more special tool to grasp the nut and an old piece of a U joint with a long section of pipe for leverage and the nut spins off easily



Removed the speedo drive unit, pull out the gear and shim and catch the ball bearing as it falls off the slot in the output shaft



Now the rear cover can pop off and a shaft comes with it



The S3 has the upgraded bearing and plates where as the Eldo and V7 Sport I have worked on have brass and steel plates here



The bearings in the cover don't feel good, they feel to all have a notch, the bearings need to come out, into the oven until the cove reaches 350 F





And the case bearings also feel rough



Examining the gear sets there is a lot of wear at this point on each of the corresponding gears



I have another 5 speed out of a 850T that nay have better gear sets

The leading edge of each tooth has the hard surface worn off and there are 'bite' marks in each face of every tooth





I got off lucky with the engine crank and main bearings being in spec, unfortunately the transmission needs a full set of case bearings and the gear sets are not the best.



Next the rear drive, fingers crossed

[balvenie]

Love it ;-T

[canuck750]

I sealed up the empty transmission case and took it to the car wash for a blast of aluminum brightener, waiting on a full set of bearings to arrive.



While the transmission site on the backburner I stripped the forks, an impact makes the job easier





The dampers are very weak, I will replace them with new FAC dampers and progressive springs, the dust caps, and tubes will be replaced as well, only the fork lowers, caps and damper rods are salvageable.



Whatever paint Guzzi used on the fork lowers it's damn hard to get off, bead blast hardly touches it, I ended up sanding the paint off then touching up with a glass bead blast, polished the alloy tops and masked for powder, ... I forgot to order the silver powder >:(

All the small painted brackets, fork clamps, headlight shell and gauge mount were stripped and powder coated satin black







I use a cheap Eastwood Automotive powder coat kit and a cheap old wall oven I set up under my bench, the oven was free for pickup on the local small adds.

Now to find some silver powder

[canuck750]

Wheel rebuilding is a lot of work and my least favorite part of rebuilding any bike, 40 spokes, 40 nipples, corroded rims, hubs that need cleaning and the bearing carriers to freshen up, X two.

40+ year old wheels are not easy to strip , looses each spoke a few turns with a wrench



Then back the nipple off a few more turns with a flat blade



Then a short rap with a hammer on the flat blade to crack the spoke free from the hub



Always a couple spokes that are not going to loosen without heat



Only 4 bent spokes, I have spares

no visible cracks in the hubs or rims



A soda blast to the inside of the rims and the hubs strips off the corrosion in the spoke recess



Now to polish 80 spokes, 80 nipples and two rims, and then lace and balance, new rim tape, new tubes and tires, A Guzzi engine rebuild is easy compared to this.....

[Maaka]

love the pics Klondike...keep them coming as I have to attack a wheel for my first time soon..apparently the drive spindle is worn, so on the lookout for replacement..love the soda thingy..does wonders..do you find the alum goes dark grey again over time??

[canuck750]

Hi Maaka,

The cleaned aluminum will oxidize and turn darker gray over time. I coat clean alloy with ACF50 once the parts are assembled, it gives at least 1 year of road use protection.

cheers

Jim

[canuck750]

Going to get the wheel building behind me, it's the last of the 'dirty' jobs.

Fine brass wire wheel in the bench grinder, then rouge polish on a buffer wheel, 80 spokes and nipples freshened up,



Then to polish the back rim, it makes one heck of a mess to make it shine again



Ready to lace it up



A little anti-size on the end of the spoke that fits into the hub, one day someone will restore this bike again and hopefully the spokes will be a little easier to get out



Guzzi wheels are so easy to assemble compared to a Japanese wheel with hooked spokes, usually 4 different types per wheel



6 fresh carrier bolts



and cleaned up the rubber dampers



Then the big plate



Then to squeeze the plate into the rubbers so the great big snap ring can fit





Snap ring pops in and the lock tab to keep it there

[Brightblade]

Wow you really made that thing shine

[canuck750]

Thanks!  I spent about 20 minutes buffing the rim, by pre-treating it with Aluminum Brightener 1st and getting the oxidation off, the polishing is much, much less work, that and the fact that the rim was in pretty good shape to begin with.

Cheers

Jim

[canuck750]

I was considering buying new stainless steel headers and cross over, the discolouration, stains and pits looked pretty ugly



I want to keep as many of the original parts as possible so I tried polishing the parts with several different grits of polishing compound. After a couple hours working on the two headers and cross over I am very surprised that they cleaned up pretty good, they are stainless to my surprise and though they are not 'like new' the finish suits the bike,



Polished up the rear fender, bead blasted the rust of the steel brace and brushed Tremclad over the raw steel,



A good portion of the bike's components are shipped off for engine machine work,  cylinder plating, flywheel lightening, cad plating, chrome plating and the frame is out for painting, now to wait for it all to come back and then it's just reverse the order like the manual says and put it all back together, simple at this point. ::)

[balvenie]

             Those stainless parts you polished look like they are chromed ;-T

[Triple Jim]

I enjoyed rebuilding my Mille's front wheel.  The amazing thing was the way the hub guided each cleaned and polished spoke right to its rim hole without having to think about lacing at all.  Much better than the usual spokes with a ≈90° bend at the head, and a drilled flange on the hub.  I have a feeling you liked doing it more than you let on.   ;D

[canuck750]

Guzzi wheels and spokes are brilliant, why other manufacturers' have not copied the simple straight pull spoke is beyond me. I have laced a lot of Yamaha and Honda dirt bike wheels, 4 different spokes per wheel, much, much more work. A guzzi wheel is really not even laced, more like just assembled.
I admit that I may not like building wheels but the end result is more than worth the aggravation. :)

[Maaka]

Mate, you are real bike wizard, and I just sit here with my mouth hung open, and in awe of you work, and workshop..Wish I lived just around the corner...hahaha

[canuck750]

Thanks for the kind words Maaka,

I got a replacement wheel in the mail today from a fellow guzzista; thanks Jack. A blast with the high pressure baking soda to remove the surface oxidation, and the scum in the spoke holes, then a 200 grit sanding pad on a foam palm sander to get rid of the deep scratches and touch up the edge of the rims, and it will polish up very nicely.

Baking Soda is my friend!



And sand paper saves a good hour of polishing ;)

[canuck750]

The industrial plater called today, my box of cadmium platting is done, I am very fortunate to have a shop willing to take my small order of tiny parts and treat them with care,



These came out looking like new



With the bearing spacers back from platting I can finish the wheel assembly

Press in the new sealed wheel bearings



Reinstall the snap rings



I used a drum sander to remove the powder paint out of the inside of the center cut out of the discs so they will slide over the bearing carriers



New bolt and nut retainers and used the re-plated original bolts

Spacer fits in here



I use an old feeler gauge to protect the fresh powder coating on the disc to bend over the lock tabs



Front wheel ready to be trued prior to new rim bands, tubes, and tires



But the rear wheel has me stumped, the bearing carrier fit in just right and the rear disc popped over the carrier, when I flipped the wheel over to install the spacer it sticks up to far???

Rechecking the front wheel the spacer is fitting just right between the two front bearings, so I think I have the front wheel carriers and spacer in correct.

I need to check my parts manual (at the office), I think this piece goes here (with the spacer inside the hub center) and then the sealed bearing goes into the recess



I took lots and lots of pictures of everything else as I disassembled it, except the wheels, because they are straight forward  :beat_horse :beat_horse

[mgmark]

I believe that spacer goes on the outside of the bearing, between the bearing and the caliper carrier. The smaller diameter goes towards the bearing.
You are doing very nice work. I wish I could have bought your black Sport when it was available.

Mark

[canuck750]

I looked through my 750 S3 part book (just a short supplement to the 850 T3 parts book), the rear wheel is the 850 T3 assembly with no changes

Part #25 is the 'CUP' - the flanged washer, it fits under the bearing against the spacer, it may be the piece that is already in the cast crush drive plate in my pictures and the flanged thick washer in my hand maybe goes somewhere else??? I recall a piece, probably the mystery flange / washer fell of the rear wheel as it was propped up against a wall.  The tube spacer length just seems odd in the rear wheel hub.



The front wheel on the S3 uses the bearing  flanges as the rear wheel on the 850T3, but the bearing spacer tube is from the 850 T3 and the front and rear wheel bearing spacers tubes have different part numbers.



This is the 850T3 front wheel diagram

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

#25 is called a "grease cup" by S-D and looks like this:





The "thick flanged washer" is #19 and goes where Mark said it does.

[canuck750]

Thanks Charlie!

So it appears to be set into the cast splined plate already, the new bearings are sealed. I wonder if the purpose of the 'Grease Cup' was for the use of non sealed bearings?

Do you pop out the sealed bearing faces and grease them and use standard type grease seals or just keep use sealed wheel bearings?

Jim

[NCAmother]

I love your posts!!!!

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Do you pop out the sealed bearing faces and grease them and use standard type grease seals or just keep use sealed wheel bearings?

Jim

I always stick with whatever type bearing is installed from the factory. If it's sealed, that's what I replace it with.

[canuck750]

Thanks Charlie, I just want to be sure. ;-T

[canuck750]

I figured out the rear wheel, thanks to Charlie and Mark, on the S3 the bearing tube spacers are slightly different lengths front to back, the rear being about 1.5mm shorter, once swapped it all falls into place, and the rear outer wheel bearing sits into the flange as it should.

Trued the rims with a dial gauge, pretty easy on a straight pull spoke rim, I try to get to 20 thou up/down and L/R. I think the rubber tire typically balances out the variance, I have no real idea as to how accurate the factory spec on the rim is supposed to be, anyone know??



I am going to order a pair of Bridgestone BT45 tires for the front and rear, once mounted a big job will be behind me.

[balvenie]

Pretty ;-T

[canuck750]

Got some of the small bits done, mostly the electrical support brackets, diode, regulator etc, just soda blasted the coils and then sprayed them to look like gold cad plating, the reg was painted and a band of yellow electrical tape goes around the bottom (could not find the blue but I have seen yellow banded Bosch regulators as well). Reused the diode board, new rubber bits and cable clamps.



Most of the parts that got sent out for work will hopefully trickle back in this week.

[Zinfan]

Super fun read!  Can't wait for the next episode.