Creeping Techno Fluff on New Vehicles

[leafman60]

I typically scoff at some of what I call Techno Fluff on new motorcycles, particularly my former brand of choice, BMW.

Keyless ignitions, electronic suspension adjusters, electronic shifters, electronic incline braking, on and on.  One of the biggest attractions of a Guzzi for me is that they typically don't clutter their machines with this BS!

Yes, some technology is welcomed. Modern ignition systems, suspensions, brakes and engines have all benefitted from technological improvements. The sort of things that irritate me, however, are gadgets that attempt to make riding easier on the rider, to insulate the rider from the inherent tasks of riding a bike.

Wanna stop on a hill? You shouldn't have to worry about holding the rear brake with your right foot and synchronizing the release of that brake as you engage the clutch on takeaway. The engineers now offer electronic brakes to tend to that chore.

Does the top of your foot hurt from flipping that shift lever into gears?  Poor baby. Give is a dose of electric shifting to ease that burdensome chore! If such things are too much trouble for you, an Impala may be better suited to your transportation needs.

Well, today I took delivery of a new 2015 Chevy Tahoe Z71. The darn thing is loaded with the same sort of BS!  I've owned about 6 of these now and every new version tends to offer a creeping onset of Techno Fluff to ease the driving experience. I don't want a lot of this electronic fluff. My goodness, I'll need a few weeks to learn all the features on this new Tahoe.

I didn't know I was getting all of this when I ordered the custom-built SUV.  Turns out that much of this stuff is mandatory in packages that go with critical features I did want.  It's sort of like cable TV. You have to get loads of BS channels that you don't want in order to get one or two channels you do want.

This new truck (seems odd to call this thing that) offers electronic voice command control for everything, keyless locks and ignition, I have front collision sensors that alert me if I overtake another vehicle to quickly, I have lane center warning that senses the road lanes and warns me if I am running off the road, I have an electronic matrix that pops up on my LCD screen when backing up to show me the long distance clear path behind me, on and on, many other gadgets.  Generally, I tend to know if I run off the road and I have no problem looking before I back.  

I'm sure points can be made about how these things can be helpful and safer but I don't need that help.  I don't even like the complicated electronically-controlled heat and air on most cars.  Just give me a fan control knob and a temperature control knob.  I'm happy with that.

Maybe I am increasingly becoming a luddite but I feel like a lot of this stuff is being forced upon us in a slow metamorphosis to a helpless state of dependence on something other than our own selves and our own capabilities!

[trippah]

and in about ten years, we will have a 2-3% fatality rate (unsolved techno glitches) when those in charge institute the save the planet by mandatory population reduction. ;D ;D  Ops sorry, was just watching Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

[56Pan]

I typically scoff at some of what I call Techno Fluff on new motorcycles, particularly my former brand of choice, BMW.

Keyless ignitions, electronic suspension adjusters, electronic shifters, electronic incline braking, on and on.  One of the biggest attractions of a Guzzi for me is that they typically don't clutter their machines with this BS!

Yes, some technology is welcomed. Modern ignition systems, suspensions, brakes and engines have all benefitted from technological improvements. The sort of things that irritate me, however, are gadgets that attempt to make riding easier on the rider, to insulate the rider from the inherent tasks of riding a bike.

Wanna stop on a hill? You shouldn't have to worry about holding the rear brake with your right foot and synchronizing the release of that brake as you engage the clutch on takeaway. The engineers now offer electronic brakes to tend to that chore.

Does the top of your foot hurt from flipping that shift lever into gears?  Poor baby. Give is a dose of electric shifting to ease that burdensome chore! If such things are too much trouble for you, an Impala may be better suited to your transportation needs.

Well, today I took delivery of a new 2015 Chevy Tahoe Z71. The darn thing is loaded with the same sort of BS!  I've owned about 6 of these now and every new version tends to offer a creeping onset of Techno Fluff to ease the driving experience. I don't want a lot of this electronic fluff. My goodness, I'll need a few weeks to learn all the features on this new Tahoe.

I didn't know I was getting all of this when I ordered the custom-built SUV.  Turns out that much of this stuff is mandatory in packages that go with critical features I did want.  It's sort of like cable TV. You have to get loads of BS channels that you don't want in order to get one or two channels you do want.

This new truck (seems odd to call this thing that) offers electronic voice command control for everything, keyless locks and ignition, I have front collision sensors that alert me if I overtake another vehicle to quickly, I have lane center warning that senses the road lanes and warns me if I am running off the road, I have an electronic matrix that pops up on my LCD screen when backing up to show me the long distance clear path behind me, on and on, many other gadgets.  Generally, I tend to know if I run off the road and I have no problem looking before I back.  

I'm sure points can be made about how these things can be helpful and safer but I don't need that help.  I don't even like the complicated electronically-controlled heat and air on most cars.  Just give me a fan control knob and a temperature control knob.  I'm happy with that.

Maybe I am increasingly becoming a luddite but I feel like a lot of this stuff is being forced upon us in a slow metamorphosis to a helpless state of dependence on something other than our own selves and our own capabilities!

 :+1 

[cruzziguzzi]

I truly "feel for" the folks I know who can't go it alone on vehicles. I would rather "roll my own" and am fortunate to have a wife who not only tolerates it but in fact encourages it. My newest acquisition is for her and in fact pleaded for by her. It'll be an MG with almost no motive nor electrical components left from England.

Her Land Rover Discovery is being supplanted by a beautiful, resurrected 1973 Scout. She loves the look but really appreciates the simplicity over the "Soccer-momed" Land Rover.

I view more and more of my friends and family as being essentially addicted for life to car payments as the vehicles seldom last significantly beyond the payment schedule anymore. Each year brings more complexity, whether foisted upon the consumer through the manufacturers by nanny-government or demanded by the soccer-moms and soccer-mom-men of the U.S.

I wouldn't be building the Scout for Sarah if I could get her a TDi Defender but alas, the nanies won't let them in and when they do, the "Real Housewives" will demand they be reduced to rolling techno-pillows dependent upon umbilicals to keep running.

*-*End Rant*-*

Todd.

[Lannis]

I truly "feel for" the folks I know who can't go it alone on vehicles. I would rather "roll my own" and am fortunate to have a wife who not only tolerates it but in fact encourages it. My newest acquisition is for her and in fact pleaded for by her. It'll be an MG with almost no motive nor electrical components left from England.

Her Land Rover Discovery is being supplanted by a beautiful, resurrected 1973 Scout. She loves the look but really appreciates the simplicity over the "Soccer-momed" Land Rover.

I view more and more of my friends and family as being essentially addicted for life to car payments as the vehicles seldom last significantly beyond the payment schedule anymore. Each year brings more complexity, whether foisted upon the consumer through the manufacturers by nanny-government or demanded by the soccer-moms and soccer-mom-men of the U.S.

I wouldn't be building the Scout for Sarah if I could get her a TDi Defender but alas, the nanies won't let them in and when they do, the "Real Housewives" will demand they be reduced to rolling techno-pillows dependent upon umbilicals to keep running.

*-*End Rant*-*

Todd.

All this stuff is on new cars because people demand that it be there.   They won't buy cars without it.   :P

Motorcycle magazines test Moto Guzzis and snort and chuckle because they don't have fly-by-wire and nuclear-powered ABS and built in head-up displays like Gold Things do.    :( 

But we shouldn't laugh.   There are people on this very list, who in their youth and middle years were strong, self-reliant, dependable, well'ard Motorcycle Riders, who today will tell you that they won't leave the driveway without their smart-phone and GPS unit that automatically tells them how to drive and where the nearest Cracker Barrel is and how far it is to the Exxon station, and so they can check in with Honey at every gas stop and four times each evening at the campground, in case "something happens" I suppose.   ;)

Careful, though.   If you say anything disparaging about this techno-fluff trend, you will hear things about stone axes and caves and flint-knapping, as if you either have to live in 2015 or 100,000 BC, there's no in between.    For me, 1982 is about right.  ;-T

Lannis

[Sasquatch Jim]

  Just solutions to non existent problems.

[Guido Valvole]

1982… sounds about right. Let's see, in the garage are a 1985 Le Mans 1000, still killing electrical bugs but I think coil replacement and yet another new battery should fix that. 1981 Monza with Lucas RITA ignition. Runs great, I suppose I should get a Dyna S just in case but (with major gearbox and rear drive work and new non-stretchy exhaust valves and lots of Time-Serts and helicoils) it's a happy, healthy runner. 1979 V50II, reliable and fun, if slow. 1963 BSA B40 in SS90 tune but with new Amal and Electrix electronic magneto so no battery - rock simple and silly fun at least to 55 or 60 mph. 90 on it would be scarier than 180 on a Hayabusa. Brakes? Surely you jest… drums from the "front brake will throw you over the bars" days. Dog Bless compression braking… close to infinitely rebuildable and close to flint-axe simple. Should last as long as the (recently CLA'd with new lubricants so good for the next 3 owners) 30s and 50s Leicas.

1982 - functional electronic ignition, analog everything else. Sure, fuel injection -- if set up correctly -- is better than a carburetor. But there's that set up right bit, and factory disasters to get past emissions or noise (read: running too lean). And not fixable without $$$$$$$ worth of equipment.

We have the best new cars (and motorcycles) ever now. Give them 5 to 10 years and they'll be the worst used pieces of dreck ever. As soon as the complex electronics start to go, it's all over. The Prince of Darkness could be dealt with. Technolo-G™ can't. At least without $$$$$$$$$$$$$ worth of special equipment and training, obsolete before you're finished. It's all electronic devices now, and the Silly Con Valley motto is "newer than tomorrow, obsolete yesterday!"
Excuse me whilst I throw my wooden shoe into the gearworks  ~;
cr

[Arizona Wayne]

These are reasons I'm no longer interested in a new MC.  They've gotten too sophisticated for me to work on most the time any more.   Some call it progress.  I call it unnecessary, at least for me.  Guess it's because I'm just an old fuddy duddy now.  Seems vintage bike events have more attendees every year.  ???   Why is that?  Maybe if us oldsters didn't have memories of how MCling used to be we wouldn't give a hoot how it is changing?

As for the "improved" cars/trucks, is that why they cost so much more now than they used to?  Hope I die before I need a new car or truck in my lifetime.  :BEER:   So far the most I've paid for either is $16,000.  ;D

[Arizona Wayne]

Gonna ride over to the annual Laughlin River Run(50 mi.) tomorrow.  Hope to see some of the new Indians there amongst mostly Harleys.  Perfect weather for it.  ;-T

[LowRyter]

I used to special order my cars so I wouldn't get power windows.  Still have my 94 Camaro with roll ups.

[nc43bsa]

I'm far from being a Luddite, but after hearing horror stories from techs, such as:

     1) a popular German car that will destroy its all-powerful BCM if the battery is disconnected without going through the "Shutdown Routine"
     
     2) another brand of German car that toasted its computer once under warranty (estimated cost of ~$5k if not warrantied) and stranded its owner 4 times before giving tell-tale signs the computer was about to toss its cookies again (not under warranty this time)

     3) the American car that had to have the BCM reprogrammed after having the A/T fluid changed

I think my 1999 Buick will be the newest car I'll ever own.

[lucky phil]

I typically scoff at some of what I call Techno Fluff on new motorcycles, particularly my former brand of choice, BMW.

Keyless ignitions, electronic suspension adjusters, electronic shifters, electronic incline braking, on and on.  One of the biggest attractions of a Guzzi for me is that they typically don't clutter their machines with this BS!

Yes, some technology is welcomed. Modern ignition systems, suspensions, brakes and engines have all benefitted from technological improvements. The sort of things that irritate me, however, are gadgets that attempt to make riding easier on the rider, to insulate the rider from the inherent tasks of riding a bike.

Wanna stop on a hill? You shouldn't have to worry about holding the rear brake with your right foot and synchronizing the release of that brake as you engage the clutch on takeaway. The engineers now offer electronic brakes to tend to that chore.

Does the top of your foot hurt from flipping that shift lever into gears?  Poor baby. Give is a dose of electric shifting to ease that burdensome chore! If such things are too much trouble for you, an Impala may be better suited to your transportation needs.

Well, today I took delivery of a new 2015 Chevy Tahoe Z71. The darn thing is loaded with the same sort of BS!  I've owned about 6 of these now and every new version tends to offer a creeping onset of Techno Fluff to ease the driving experience. I don't want a lot of this electronic fluff. My goodness, I'll need a few weeks to learn all the features on this new Tahoe.

I didn't know I was getting all of this when I ordered the custom-built SUV.  Turns out that much of this stuff is mandatory in packages that go with critical features I did want.  It's sort of like cable TV. You have to get loads of BS channels that you don't want in order to get one or two channels you do want.

This new truck (seems odd to call this thing that) offers electronic voice command control for everything, keyless locks and ignition, I have front collision sensors that alert me if I overtake another vehicle to quickly, I have lane center warning that senses the road lanes and warns me if I am running off the road, I have an electronic matrix that pops up on my LCD screen when backing up to show me the long distance clear path behind me, on and on, many other gadgets.  Generally, I tend to know if I run off the road and I have no problem looking before I back.  

I'm sure points can be made about how these things can be helpful and safer but I don't need that help.  I don't even like the complicated electronically-controlled heat and air on most cars.  Just give me a fan control knob and a temperature control knob.  I'm happy with that.

Maybe I am increasingly becoming a luddite but I feel like a lot of this stuff is being forced upon us in a slow metamorphosis to a helpless state of dependence on something other than our own selves and our own capabilities!

Yep and all this stuff is aimed at one national market in particular......gue ss which one

Ciao

[Aaron D.]

I too prefer simplicity-no ABS on bikes, etc, but new cars are better and more reliable. Period.

Well,maybe not PERIOD, but I got my Audi with stick shift, no fancy packages, I can turn off the anti skid stuff-I've been driving "drive by wire"for 13 years, never a hint of trouble. I do think DBW is much better with stick instead of automatic, especially DSG type boxes.

But I'd rather build up a Scout myself than get a Discovery. Though I'd check Jeeps, my wife's Rubicon is a stone axe with fuel injection, and it's been great for 9 years now.

[leafman60]

Yesterday, the sales manager had to give me a quick tutorial about all the bells and whistles just so I could get the new car home and read the operator's manual. I voiced my disdain for a lot of it to him and he nodded his head in agreement but went on to tell me about the customers who wanted these Techno Fluff items.

For example- the keyless entry and operation. He told me that women love that feature because they don't have to dig into their purse to find their car keys. The transponder is in the purse somewhere so all they have to do touch the door unlock pad, sit down and touch the engine start button.

The drop-down "conversation mirror" allows women to see the kids or other passengers in the back seat while they talk to them.

The electric-operated lay-down seats triggered from the cargo loading area-  women don't want to have to walk all the way around to the rear side doors to manually release and lay down the back seats to provide room in the cargo area. Now they can stand at the back door and simply press a button in order to make more room for groceries or clothes in the cargo area.

All the electronic guidance technology also appeals to women who can't always worry about things like staying on the road when more important things like talking on their cellphones are on their minds.

Guys have their own proclivities as well. All the electronic screen gadgetry appeal to men.  Seeing a digitized "clear grid" of the area into which you are backing and the large entertainment screen that does everything with a voice command or touch of the finger are things guys like to play with.

Still, in the end, the sales people told me that the biggest influence on new car design are the notions and desires of women!  If momma is happy, everybody is happy.
 

[mtiberio]

soon, cars will drive themselves. once the insurance companies figure out that computers have fewer accidents than people, you will have to pay a premium to drive a car without a computer...

for the past few years GM has been the biggest employer of computer programmers. what the heck do you think they have been doing.

[Two Checks]

My Guzzis came from the factory with GPS.
Yep, that's right, they came with GPS.

Gluteus Positioning System, aka the seat. We don' need no steenking techno crap!
I thought people buy motorcycles to "get away from it all" or "clear their heads". Now when folks buy a bike they have to add gizmos.

It's like "time savin.g devices" in our homes. We now have so many we no longer have time to do anything.

[sib]

I'm old enough to remember when you had to change car tires every 10k miles.  Starters, generators, regulators (remember those), batteries went every 10-15k, not to mention fan belts, good for maybe 15k at best.  No hydraulic valve lifters, no electronic ignition, no fuel injection, everything had to be constantly adjusted to keep the cars running.  I "fondly" remember skinning my knuckles and burning my arms while working on various GTO's, etc., in my driveway.  Not so much anymore.

My current car is a 2014 Prius, which I bought new.  I got the model with all the bells and whistles because I like gadgets and most of the ones installed on the car seemed useful.  Back in 2014, built-in GPS, keyless entry, and xenon arc headlights were novelties, and now they're common, so my car still feels modern.  Nothing has gone wrong with the car in 11 years and 150k miles.  I've easily saved enough on gas over the years to have paid for any initial price premium on the car.  And, I get to feel smug by using less fuel and creating less carbon dioxide.  I intend to keep it until something major blows and then get another Prius.

Now, if I were interested in antique cars, I might feel differently, but for me, a car is a means to get around, not a life-enriching hobby.  If a gadget like ABS or traction control helps to keep me on the road, great.

My motorcycle is a MG V7 Stone.  It's simple, but has enough modern features to make it reliable, so I can spend more time riding it and less time futzing with it.  I respect those folks who like to spend much of their time tinkering with their bikes and rarely actually ride them.  That is a different hobby entirely.  I'll most likely trade my bike for a V7II because I like the idea of ABS and might enjoy the extra gear.

Vive la différence.

[Lannis]

My Guzzis came from the factory with GPS.
Yep, that's right, they came with GPS.

Gluteus Positioning System, aka the seat. We don' need no steenking techno crap!
I thought people buy motorcycles to "get away from it all" or "clear their heads". Now when folks buy a bike they have to add gizmos.

It's like "time savin.g devices" in our homes. We now have so many we no longer have time to do anything.

Part of the desire for "stuff" on cars today is because people have so much more money compared to what they used to have.   Back in what people like to call the "good old days" when Dad working down at the manufacturing mill could raise a family on one income, we had NOTHING like we have today; we just didn't have the money for it, and didn't think we needed it.   

If car companies wanted, they could build a basic car equipped like a base 1964 Ford Falcon, using modern materials and technology, for about $5000.   No power anything, vinyl seats, no gadgets, no AC, just like we used to do.

But no one would buy it.   Despite all the jealous whining and moaning about "income disparity" and "bad economy" and "both parents have to work" and "need to raise the minimum wage", we've got (let me use the technical term) a sh!tpotfull of money compared to what we had 50 years ago, and we splash it around on stuff that we believe we "need" now.   Fancy cars, fancy technology, tons of "time" and "labor"-saving stuff.   And like you say, as a result, we don't have time to do anything any more ....

Lannis

[Sack]

I'm far from being a Luddite, but after hearing horror stories from techs, such as:

     1) a popular German car that will destroy its all-powerful BCM if the battery is disconnected without going through the "Shutdown Routine"
     
     2) another brand of German car that toasted its computer once under warranty (estimated cost of ~$5k if not warrantied) and stranded its owner 4 times before giving tell-tale signs the computer was about to toss its cookies again (not under warranty this time)

     3) the American car that had to have the BCM reprogrammed after having the A/T fluid changed

I think my 1999 Buick will be the newest car I'll ever own.

It's hard to compare the Germans to other brands because from what I see they (and others in their market) deal in an artificial world. So in demand are their cars by the elite that many owners don't care what it takes to keep them on the road. My brother has worked for a leading German brand for years and he's full of stories of wealthy owners who don't blink at all when clicking option boxes for a $5000 set of new rims or whatever. He mentions parts prices for common maintenance items, such as spark plugs, that the dealer sells for four times what the same plug costs over at NAPA or any other auto parts store. They don't care. They have more money than they know what to do with and all they want is to get back out on the road again where they can be seen by those that care. It's a different world today. Just reading how the iPhone has become quite the status symbol. Even Apple wants to push themselves into the markets of the "I don't care what it costs, I just have to be there with this", trying to distance themselves from competing brands which hopefully will be viewed only as commodities.

My brother was just telling me that in the rarefied air of the elite who buy their products, the manufacturer will commonly cover very expensive out of warranty service issues because many of their customers are very influential and so to keep positive PR.

Customers today are more obsessed today with bling. To be seen without it is unacceptable. That's a great reason why vehicles today have what they do. It's available and "I" need it!

[Lannis]

It's hard to compare the Germans to other brands because from what I see they (and others in their market) deal in an artificial world. So in demand are their cars by the elite that many owners don't care what it takes to keep them on the road. My brother has worked for a leading German brand for years and he's full of stories of wealthy owners who don't blink at all when clicking option boxes for a $5000 set of new rims or whatever. He mentions parts prices for common maintenance items, such as spark plugs, that the dealer sells for four times what the same plug costs over at NAPA or any other auto parts store. They don't care. They have more money than they know what to do with and all they want is to get back out on the road again where they can be seen by those that care. It's a different world today. Just reading how the iPhone has become quite the status symbol. Even Apple wants to push themselves into the markets of the "I don't care what it costs, I just have to be there with this", trying to distance themselves from competing brands which hopefully will be viewed only as commodities.

My brother was just telling me that in the rarefied air of the elite who buy their products, the manufacturer will commonly cover very expensive out of warranty service issues because many of their customers are very influential and so to keep positive PR.

Customers today are more obsessed today with bling. To be seen without it is unacceptable. That's a great reason why vehicles today have what they do. It's available and "I" need it!

I was talking to my brother about HIS BMW.   He bought a 750-series sedan loaded with all the BMW farkles, and that's a lot of them.

I asked him "What are you going to do when any of this stuff breaks?   Can anyone fix it?" 

And he said "Not gonna be my problem.   No way I'll still own this car by the time things start breaking - that'll be someone else's problem ...."

Lannis

[travelingbyguzzi]

You kids get off my lawn!

[Triple Jim]

Still, in the end, the sales people told me that the biggest influence on new car design are the notions and desires of women!  If momma is happy, everybody is happy.

There's a lot of truth to that.  A friend of mine is about to go on a long trip in a car, alone.  His girlfriend (common law wife?) was so concerned for his safety that she convinced him they needed to get a new car for him to drive on the trip.  They bought one with a lot of input from her, and now that they have it, she has indicated that she'll probably drive it a lot after the trip.   :P

[leafman60]

I was talking to my brother about HIS BMW.   He bought a 750-series sedan loaded with all the BMW farkles, and that's a lot of them.

I asked him "What are you going to do when any of this stuff breaks?   Can anyone fix it?" 

And he said "Not gonna be my problem.   No way I'll still own this car by the time things start breaking - that'll be someone else's problem ...."

Lannis

That's becoming a cardinal rule of high-tech motorcycle or automobile ownership.  Never let it go out of warranty.

In the BMW motorcycle world, extended warranties or sales before warranty expiration is highly advised and increasingly practiced.  I think the same practice for such high-tech cars/trucks would also be advisable.  That said, I've owned and logged many miles on about 6 Tahoe SUV's and experienced only very minor issues with them.  

[Tobit]

My beef is that all this electronic cellulite referred to as "technology" works better and is more reliable than the electronics needed to actually run the vehicle.  Our '95 Volvo with 220,000 miles has NEVER had an electronic failure of any kind.  ECU, Trans shift module, lighting, accessories, etc.  Now, you get all the social media crap, $1000 HID headlights, CANs, and even the simplest thing, like turning on the headlights, is done by a button or knob that runs through a voltage divider, to the "Intelligent Power Module" (Dodge) to direct battery current through the BCM to each headlight.  Notice how many vehicles are running around with one headlight or tail light out?  A few years ago the reverse lights stopped working in the S-10 my transmitter engineer used, so it wouldn't pass inspection.  Relay?  Lamps?  Nope.  A $500 BCM that is buried under the center of the dash.

My new '07 Cherokee had chronic but intermittent shift and limp-home issues.  Dealer response?  "Never heard of that."  I pointed him to pages on the web of owners with the same issue.  They screwed with it under warranty racking up what would be $800 - $1000 repairs each time without fixing it.  It was my company car.  If it were mine I would have dumped it before the warranty ran out.

Last week a friend bought a '15 Subaru Outback.  Really nice vehicle.  I was interested for my wife so I started researching it.  Uh oh, Bluetooth, smartphone synchronization, rear camera, automatic braking collision avoidance, "Eyesight" that lets you know if the car ahead is beginning to slow or speed up, lane drift (brain drift) control and CVT.  First thing I found was that the battery is underrated and the Outback has a no-start issue.  All the electronic crap works but it won't start.  Battery is of an unusual size so there is a waiting list to located the uprated replacement.  

I guess as long as the "entertain me" electronics work, you can sit on the side of the road and play with yourself until AAA arrives.  

Here's a site I recommend for anyone looking for a vehicle, new or used.  

http://www.carcomplaints.com

Watch any car commercial.  It's about electronic fluff, no longer about drivetrain, suspension or long-term reliability.

My name is Tobit and I"m a Luddite.

 :beat_horse

[leafman60]

There's a lot of truth to that.  A friend of mine is about to go on a long trip in a car, alone.  His girlfriend (common law wife?) was so concerned for his safety that she convinced him they needed to get a new car for him to drive on the trip.  They bought one with a lot of input from her, and now that they have it, she has indicated that she'll probably drive it a lot after the trip.   :P

In case people don't already know this - women rule the world.

They have accomplished this partly with a pervasive subterfuge of perpetrating the "it's a man's world" myth.  Yes, it may be a man's world but the men have learned to operate it according to the wishes of women.  


.

[leafman60]

PS:  I'm glad none of my women read this thread. lol

[Bill929]

Lisa's F150 has a backup camera that I find very useful.  I can back to a trailer without any help, which would be impossible to see (we have a Leer cap) w/o it.  I also think that the backup cameras have prevented thousands of  minor accidents, caused primarily by those drivers who have no idea where their vehicle begins or ends - note that I specifically did not use the phrase "distracted soccor moms" - oh, I guess I did.  I've recently transitioned from a 1991 LeMans, whose major technological advancement was disc brakes, to a BMW GS, which has more electronics on it than I can possibly figure out.  The BMW is quite a machine, but I will be the first to admit it will be quite expensive to fix when these gadgets go wrong.  I did recently find out that the riding modes are quite useful, when I uh - "got temporarily stuck" in mud and wet leaves in an off-road excursion and found that "enduro" mode works much better in that scenario than "road" mode.    

[Tobit]

I was talking to my brother about HIS BMW.   He bought a 750-series sedan loaded with all the BMW farkles, and that's a lot of them.

I asked him "What are you going to do when any of this stuff breaks?   Can anyone fix it?" 

And he said "Not gonna be my problem.   No way I'll still own this car by the time things start breaking - that'll be someone else's problem ...."

Lannis

 :+1

[GearheadGrrrl]

http://gearheadgrrrl.com/2015/04/15/transportation-taxes-risin-again/

Blog I wrote on Volvo/Mack trucks new system that tracks a truck and can "rat off" the owner if they take it off road, overload it, or otherwise "abuse" it. The key part of the truck they're spying on is their automated manual transmission, for which no rebuild parts are available... You have to buy a rebuilt transmission from Volvo if it fails!

[segesta]

I was talking to my brother about HIS BMW.   He bought a 750-series sedan loaded with all the BMW farkles, and that's a lot of them.

I asked him "What are you going to do when any of this stuff breaks?   Can anyone fix it?" 

And he said "Not gonna be my problem.   No way I'll still own this car by the time things start breaking - that'll be someone else's problem ...."

Lannis

1. I'm reminded of my boss's etc boss, who had a 750 BMW a few years back. He didn't feel like waiting 3 weeks for some critical part to come from Germany, so he just traded in the car for a new one.

2. If you're looking for an old fashioned, solid-as-a-rock car like a Mercedes 240 from the 1980s, they still make them. It's called a "Civic."