Anudder kweshun

[HardAspie]

The more I research the more I think.

I am pondering simplicity. I like the new V7 but have reservations about automotive electronics. New bikes seem to have about the same impenetrable onboard electronics as have the cars that have plagues me. Electronic ignition and EFI, ABS, Traction Control, Instrumentation, ECU, Data connections... And I ponder older Geese. So my first question:

Are older Guzzis a good bet? Bear in mind my bike will be my sole motorized vehicle.

Thanks!

[wymple]

I"ll take a carbed Guzzi with aftermarket Dyna ignition, thank you.

[HardAspie]

That is sounding good to me. Thank you.

[pyoungbl]

I'm happy with the relatively simple electronics on the V7.  The fuel injection system is well proven and very simple, particularly with the single throttle body on the newest versions.  By '16 we'll see ABS on all bikes sold in Europe so the V7 will have that too.  Once again, it will be a fairly simple version.  To get something pre EFI you have to go back quite a few years...I'm not sure when the change took place but it is probably around 2000, maybe earlier.  Bottom line, you would be looking for a 15 year old bike if you want carbs and no electronics.  If this is going to be your sole transportation I'd recommend a newer bike because age itself will cause more problems than electronics.

Peter Y.

[HardAspie]

Thank you!
Great answer.

So much to ponder. My decision is some time off. I like to have time to think.

[SED]

It may be that they are simpler than they seem.  I once had an ignition switch fail in a Honda and the whole car shut down and coasted to the side of the hwy... in the rain after a wet ski day.   I was stumped until I decided that it was probably a lot like my old Mustang or Healey or Triumph and jumpered the coil from the battery.  It worked!  Bump started it and the engine ran and the wipers even worked.   

Confession is that the Honda is now 30 years old (I may be living in the past...).

Not sure the new Guzzis even have coils, but it may be a get you home tactic if a new bike quits (and it has a coil).

[HardAspie]

You know, that hit it. I am old. I recall points and coils and carburetors and such all too well. I have a fair bit of knowledge of their operation and of failures. I've dealt with such technology a long time and know how to generally avoid trouble-along-the-roadside issues and how to to deal with them. I do not so understand digital electronics.

Also, I am one of those people who cannot wear electronic watches.

[HardAspie]

I love the promise of digitronics.  but have had issues with the reality thereof. I am thinking carbs are pretty easy to deal with and I could live with electronic ignition. One issue is distance to any MG dealer...if tronics poop. Long tow. Mostly analogue electrics can be figured with a decent multimeter.

[HardAspie]

Thank you. I am getting a lot of good information here.

[Yukonica]

Hi Laura, thus far, the people answering your question are guardian's of the marque.
Any one of them has more innate understanding of Guzzi's than you or I have time left on this earth to grasp. Listen to them well.
The foundation of my perspective seems built on experiences quite similar to yours so I'll chime in from that angle. I  grew up on British sports cars. (Mom had Austin's: Sprite, 3000 and some horrid black bowler thingy). My first, second, third and fourth cars had SU carbs. I 'get' being able to hear/sense how to make primitive machines work. Fast forward many years; I'm riding a 2013 V7 Special. Maintenance, repairs, parts, advice, moral support is only available through my very own fingers and an ADSL connection to resources like this forum. Without these people i'd never have the fortitude to own a Guzzi. My parts store is in Texas and the nearest dealer is 2500 km away... but it is 'a dry challenge'
Admissions: first off, in my ignorance, I've managed to screw up what was a pretty well set-up machine. That ECU is still pondering what quirk of karma sent it into my hands to be set and reset. Second; following advice of these kind folk: I've 'unscrewed-up' that same ECU.
What I'm saying is; the technology is a benefit not a barrier. The mechanical bits are robust. The engineering is as simple as 'the old days' and the operating system seems to be pretty well fool-proof (based on this fool's proofing)
When time comes to put down your cash: I don't think there is a better way to go than a modern Guzzi. Other makes offer seamless disposable inanimate innocuous forms; you'll never build the intimacy of knowing you set your own valves and could do it again roadside.

[guzzimike]

Get a carbie round fin, SKIP the Dyna...The Dual Points are just fine.

I have seen a dozen big block Guzzis retrofitted with Dynas go tits up over the past 15+years.

All had been installed correctly and had been running OK for one to 5 years.  And then with zero warning,  as in stopping to get fuel...Then once fueled up, rider engages starter, and Shiite hits fan.  One side would not fire. Curiously enough, about 80% of these it was the Right side which crapped out at the Black Box ( NO, Not a Coil issue - )   

The Solution was to pull the plug and chugg back to base one cylinder. Once there a thorough check of each individual component's integrity focused the problem on the black box.

About half of those affected by the Dyna Virus have taken to keeping a spare Dual Points plate as a lifesaver / back up.

My thought is " Why bother with the EI retrofit in the First Place..?"  -

You Do Not Need itr. Unless you must have "Gee- Wizz Kool" technology for technologys sake.

Look..The Dual points run smoothly enough 99% of the time; and years down the road, when eventually the Dual Points do begin t close the gap,   they tend to display a subtle, yet unmistakeable warning  - IOW, NO Surprises, No Sudden waylaid to the Roadside due to Dynainfection

Keep the Dual Points, save $150, and do not risk becoming infected.

It is a WIN, WIN, WiIN

At least, it is and Has Been for me and my CX100, since 1997.





-

[boatdetective]

I tuned my 1200S yesterday in a matter of minutes with a homemade manometer and guzzidiag. throttlebody injection is very, very simple. Although I understand the appeal of the older stuff- I have to say that there are undeniable advantages to new tech ECUs. You just do NOT see these things dying by the side of the road left and right.

[Vasco DG]

The great thing about the old 'Points and Coils' technology is they you can fix it at the side of the road, (If you have the skills!). And you know what? That's exactly what you will be doing while owners of modern bikes are riding and having fun!

Flame away....

Pete

[nick949]

You just do NOT see these things dying by the side of the road left and right.

Guess which one is broken? (Highway 17, east of Sault Ste.Marie - 8PM)



That damnable 30 amp fuse!

BUT - keeping the Eldo running does require constant attention and my 2007 Breva 1100 has never let me down. I'm firmly in both camps.

Nick

[blackcat]

The great thing about the old 'Points and Coils' technology is they you can fix it at the side of the road, (If you have the skills!). And you know what? That's exactly what you will be doing while owners of modern bikes are riding and having fun!

Flame away....

Pete

I agree, buy the V7 or if you have to buy an older bike get one that is well sorted out.

PS. And this is from someone who just rode his 81 CX 2000 miles with a few problems. Yes I made it, but sometimes wished that a criminal would have stolen the bike in route.

[charlie b]

I like Pete's and Nick's answers.

I have a 30yr old bike.  It takes a lot of care and feeding.  I carry extra throttle and clutch cables.  Also carry a full complement of tools.  Yes, I can fix it by the side of the road, and I have, several times.  Just this weekend I had to replace a starter relay.  No big deal, but, if I didn't have one in a drawer it would have meant bump starting it to get it to the store.

I also recently had a Honda NT700V, bought new.  It never needed anything except normal maintenance (adjust valves on it was a PITA).  All electronic stuff.  Many of them have gone over 100k miles with nothing but normal maintenance.  If it ever needed maint that I could not perform, I could have it towed to the nearest dealer to get it fixed.  And there are three Honda dealers in our small city.

So, if I wanted a bike as my only transport I would probably end up with a new or clean UJM.  Yes, if someone I 'knew' had a good, more modern Guzzi available I might be tempted at one of them too.  But, unless you have a good dealer near you......

If you are in the boonies then an old carb bike with points would be better because you can do everything yourself.  Stock up on spare parts and you will be fine.  But, plan on an hour or more of maintenance every month, and carry tools with you  :)

[kirby1923]

I just last rode my '81 CX from SoCal to the top of Pikes Peak and back.

Never missed a beat.

:-)

[sib]

I think our individual preferences also depend on the stage of our life.  When I was younger, I liked the challenge of constantly tweaking and fiddling with my machines, getting them ever more perfectly tuned (or so I imagined), trying to improve on what the manufacturer engineered.  Now, not so much.  My current bike ('16 V7II Stone) just works.  Every time.  It stays in perfect tune.  No floats of float valves to get stuck, no points that arc and get out of adjustment, no need to synchronize anything.  Push the start button, it starts.  It purrs at speed, goes where I point it, and stops when I want it to.  Life is good.

[M0T0Geezer]

10 years ago a Honda dealer said my '76 Gold Wing was "too old" for them to work on.

A month ago, a BMW dealer told my friend that his 80s something beemer was too old to be serviced.

Old is OK if you want to do everything yourself, locate and acquire used parts, etc.

Otherwise, I'd recommend you buy a 21st century bike and enjoy the ride and the tech!

'Geezer

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

In 32 years of Guzzi ownership, I can count on one hand (with fingers left over) the number of times I've worked on my old Guzzis "on the side of the road". In the same period of time, to count the number of newer "wonder bikes" I've seen stranded and unfixable along side the road would require that I remove both of my shoes. 

And the terrible burden of setting my points and timing, cleaning the float bowls out and syncing the carbs once a year! Oh, the agony... 

[Chuck in Indiana]

What Charlie said. However, if is some old suspenders wearing turd that doesn't get fixed if it ain't broke, something is ready to break.    If you maintain your old Guzzi in like new mechanical condition, it will run forever.

[HardAspie]

Thank you all! I have now a wealth of information to sort through. Information is far better than guesswork! Since I have time between now and onset of official old age, I have time to handle all this. And...to some extent, I plan on being opportunistic. See what happens. Tellya wot; very often G-d has better plans for me than anything that I can come up with! Thanks to all of you.

[lorazepam]

Having ridden for over 40 years, I would go with something like the V7. Dependable single fuel injection, the electronics are pretty simple, and maintenance is stone easy. It is a mixture of older bike simplicity, and modern fuel management. Best of both worlds.

[sidecarnutz]

I recently decided that old Carb'd Guzzi's and Urals were too complicated for me as a professional mechanic. So I sold the Urals and bought a 2003 Royal Enfield 500 with carb and points ignition. Its a daily driver, much the same as my old lawn tractor! 

[HardAspie]

I have actually pondered a Royal Enfield! I actually like the idea of a two wheeled garden tractor. The new ones are all EFI, rats. I also looked at Zook's DR 650, but quickly ran into a few issues that could make me regret the purchase. Tellya wot, another candidate would be a nice later (end production models are mechanically better in many ways, but less collectible than early oval tank types.) Triumph T140. I kinda like stoneaxe.

[HardAspie]

Have considered. Pretty much ruled out.

[wymple]

Get a carbie round fin, SKIP the Dyna...The Dual Points are just fine.

I have seen a dozen big block Guzzis retrofitted with Dynas go tits up over the past 15+years.

All had been installed correctly and had been running OK for one to 5 years.  And then with zero warning,  as in stopping to get fuel...Then once fueled up, rider engages starter, and Shiite hits fan.  One side would not fire. Curiously enough, about 80% of these it was the Right side which crapped out at the Black Box ( NO, Not a Coil issue - )   

The Solution was to pull the plug and chugg back to base one cylinder. Once there a thorough check of each individual component's integrity focused the problem on the black box.

About half of those affected by the Dyna Virus have taken to keeping a spare Dual Points plate as a lifesaver / back up.

My thought is " Why bother with the EI retrofit in the First Place..?"  -

You Do Not Need itr. Unless you must have "Gee- Wizz Kool" technology for technologys sake.

Look..The Dual points run smoothly enough 99% of the time; and years down the road, when eventually the Dual Points do begin t close the gap,   they tend to display a subtle, yet unmistakeable warning  - IOW, NO Surprises, No Sudden waylaid to the Roadside due to Dynainfection

Keep the Dual Points, save $150, and do not risk becoming infected.

It is a WIN, WIN, WiIN

At least, it is and Has Been for me and my CX100, since 1997.





-

I won't disagree on the big blocks, but the small blocks seem to be much improved by Dyna ignitions IMO. The Dyna on my Cal II has been there a long time, but I haven't taken any polls from others. As far as buying something newer, that's fine if you're not a tinkerer anyhow. But if my Cal II quits halfway to nowhere, I've got a sporting chance. There are horror stories about extremely expensive components on newer bikes that guarantee you're on the truck, and you'll need a loan.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I recently decided that old Carb'd Guzzi's and Urals were too complicated for me as a professional mechanic. So I sold the Urals and bought a 2003 Royal Enfield 500 with carb and points ignition. Its a daily driver, much the same as my old lawn tractor! 

A Loopframe Guzzi "too complicated"?    Seriously?

[HardAspie]

Am thinking older Guzzis. I have a while to ponder and am keeping all options open and while I ask a lot of questions.

[GearheadGrrrl]

'81 or later BMW R65- easy to work on, carbs but electronic ignition ('79 and '80 had points ignition), 450 pounds weight, going price for a decent running one is $2000-$3000.