Water Cooling for 2017?

[canuguzzi]

Anyone who's ridden a 2nd Gen Norge knows that MG practically solved the heat management problem. In high temps, even at a stop for long lights and traffic unless you are the shorts and sandals type, heat on the rider isn't a problem. Someone at MG really figured it out and did so with style.

They could easily stick a radiator on it and you'd hardly notice the difference. The rest of the plumbing any decent designer could make look like it was air cooled. If they wanted to do a water cooled bike, that would seem to be the best place to start, a bike with lots of cowling and fairing. Besides, ST riders would welcome it.

[jas67]

Point of order, it looks like you're talking @ the crank specs.

If so the 696 is rated at 80 hp.

http://www.ducatiusa.com/bikes/monster/696/2014/tech_spec.do

and you got the 796 correct:

http://www.ducati.com/bikes/monster/796_corse_stripe/tech_spec.do

And honestly, the 696 is fun, but even IT tempts me to go faster than I need to.

I can always count on your for a fact check 

I was going by memory.  The difference is even smaller than I remembered it being.

Yes, I can see were the 696 would tempt just as much as the 796.

The V7 and either of my Airheads are way better for commuting, as they don't tempt near as much, and thus aren't as frustrating dealing with the slow cars I sometimes encounter.   

[Kev m]

The V7 and either of my Airheads are way better for commuting, as they don't tempt near as much, and thus aren't as frustrating dealing with the slow cars I sometimes encounter.   

I just got back from a ride around the forest and I thought about that as I was on The Tail of the Possum.

I was following a car or two that was doing about 65 mph (I think the limit is probably 55 on most of that road) and I was thinking about this thread.

I was actually having a VERY PLEASANT ride through the trees, through the mesh jacket and in my open face helmet I was feeling the somewhat cool air coming out of the forest on either side of me and I was really enjoying riding at a pace about 100 yards or so behind the traffic, just matching them.

Now the joke about the Tail of the Possum is that it's 11 miles and 1 curve, but that's a slight exaggeration.

It's probably only 8-9 miles and there's probably about 8 curves  (ok maybe 7, as one of them is barely not a straight line). They're all gentle sweepers, except maybe one towards the east end (second to last) that gets narrow and then goes over a bumpy bridge just past the apex. All but that last one I can take comfortably at 70 or so on any of our bikes (Sporty, V7, Duc). And I mean comfortably, I feel like I'm not even pushing...well maybe I feel a little closer to pushing on the Sporty, but even still.

So the traffic pace of 65 was ALMOST perfect, unless they slowed for the curves (which they did).

But it was easy, a few hundred yards before the curves I downshifted and slowed putting more distance between them and me, then I'd accelerate, take the curve at my desired speed and shut it down as I was closing in on them again, slowly putting that 100 yards back between us before we approached the next curve, usually a mile or so away.

ANYWAY, about halfway through today I was thinking to myself IF I was on the Duc, or if I was on the Buell, or B11 etc. I'd likely have passed them, and then taken the next curve at 80, and then kept the speed up, and then come across someone who was going faster, so I'd accelerate some more...and then I'd take the next curve faster still.

This IS the road that I was playing with the Corvette while I was on the Duc last year... anyone who has heard that story should understand what I'm saying.

So I'm thinking about this and I realized, damn I'm having a perfectly good time and although the V7 HAS the power to pass those cars, there was literally NO NEED, so NO PROBLEM.

Ironically a little while later, on another nearby stretch a Durango decided to put their turn signal on and move half into the bicycle lane to let me by, even though they were also doing 65, I was at least 50 yards behind them (maybe more) AND we were in a straight passing zone without a car in sight. But I didn't want to be impolite, so I dropped it a gear and quickly passed them and put some distance on them before coming back into our lane. I couldn't help but think of that other thread where the doofus in a video supposedly was bagging on the passing power of the V7... yeah man, I'm sure you NEED to be doing more than 80 or 90 to pass where you live... whatever...

[rocker59]

ANYWAY, about halfway through today I was thinking to myself IF I was on the Duc, or if I was on the Buell, or B11 etc. I'd likely have passed them, and then taken the next curve at 80, and then kept the speed up, and then come across someone who was going faster, so I'd accelerate some more...and then I'd take the next curve faster still.

This IS the road that I was playing with the Corvette while I was on the Duc last year... anyone who has heard that story should understand what I'm saying.

So I'm thinking about this and I realized, damn I'm having a perfectly good time and although the V7 HAS the power to pass those cars, there was literally NO NEED, so NO PROBLEM.
 

This is exactly why I like riding the V7s.  My Sport 1100 is like a Greek Siren and would lure me to do just what you've described.

The Sport 1100 is a wonderful, elemental, and capable sporty bike.  Especially on that type of sweeping road.  However, it is not comfortable or fun just cruising along.  It wants to be ridden like Dr. John intended.  And sometimes I wish the Siren didn't call.

That's where the V7 is perfect.  60-65 on a 55 posted 2-lane highway.  Not demanding that you dominate the road, but allowing you to enjoy it as it comes.  And if the odd pass is needed, it really isn't an issue.

Totally different vibe.  And totally enjoyable.

[jas67]

ANYWAY, about halfway through today I was thinking to myself IF I was on the Duc, or if I was on the Buell, or B11 etc. I'd likely have passed them, and then taken the next curve at 80, and then kept the speed up, and then come across someone who was going faster, so I'd accelerate some more...and then I'd take the next curve faster still.

THIS ^^^^^^^^

Since the temps were to 80 or less, I rode the B11 to work today for the first time in a while.     I made a few passes on two lane roads on the way home that I wouldn't have bothered with on the V7 or one of the airheads -- not because I couldn't have on those bikes, but, I wouldn't have felt the need.

[sturgeon]

I know it's anecdotal, but I've been stuck 2-3 times that I can think of off the top of my head in summertime (80-90F) stop-n-go traffic for anywhere from 1-2 HOURS and not HAD to shut down an air-cooled bike.

Then your boys must have more asbestos on 'em than mine do 

(It was me that was getting cooked, not the bikes).

[Kev m]

Then your boys must have more asbestos on 'em than mine do 

(It was me that was getting cooked, not the bikes).

I think it is just differences in particular bikes. Some bikes allow better airflow or position your boys further away from the heat than others.

I think my Buell S3T would have cooked me in that condition, same with my Breva 1100, but luckily the times it happened involved a Sportster, a Road King (EVO EFI, ran a lot cooler than current) and a Jackal.

[bpreynolds]

BP, if you had re-mapped you Stelvio, your heat problem would probably have been greatly fixed.

Looking back on it, I think you are absolutely right.  I think wiseman Ralph Glorioso from the board here suggested this even.  All of the tremendous popping elicited on decel tells me that "maybe" the bike was running lean and a really lean bike will definitely run hotter.  I've been trying to address the same problem with my Thunderbird Sport project that has been running lean and very hot even after flushing radiator, replacing oil/filter, coolant, and repairing/testing fan. 

I think had my only issue with the bike been its temp, then I would have more greatly investigated solutions, but my size and the bike's size was also a factor.  Though I have a nice long inseam (32") that enjoys legroom and enjoys taller machines in general, I am seriously about 145lbs. soaking wet and only 5'9" total.  The bike's height combined with its weight led to many in helmet sweats on hotter days just to get it turned around, plan for parking, and that kinda thing.  I'm whining like a white man here  but it just got old and after at least several scary almost drops, just decided that maybe ADV bikes aren't for me.  Do not get me wrong, however, I thought the bike was pretty phenomenal once moving, handling, braking, sound, was fantatic.

[pyoungbl]

My Stelvio was re-mapped specifically to reduce the heat.   This was probably effective in terms of cooling the cylinders and exhaust temps but did little to make the engine feel cooler when riding the bike.  Why?  Well, the heads are constantly being flushed with hot oil from the oil cooler.  Whatever temperature the oil gets to is exactly what you will feel at the heads.  Guzzi solved this with the latest model Norge by installing plastic ducts over the heads to divert that head heat away from the rider's knees.  Leafman60 has adapted these to his Stelvio and seems to be very happy with the result.  His mod involved making some brackets to mount the ducts so it would appear that Guzzi could do something similar for the rest of us.  This would certainly be welcomed by those of us who's left knee tends to rest on that head...and get toasty as a result.

Peter Y.

[blakebird]

This conversation rambles around a bit, but a few have hit it square on the head....H-D and BMW went with liquid cooled HEADS and kept the cylinders finned and air cooled.
Radiators can be much smaller and concealed so they don't spoil the look. Keeping the head temps in line is what allows them to meet EPA emissions with tighter tolerances and more efficient combustion.

many of the big cruisers like the Roadliner have oil cooling with piston skirt jets and a couple of high capacity oil pumps to keep temps in line.

LOTS of bikes have the radiator not in front - as mentioned, the Super Tenere (I have one, it runs cool), and many Hondas suchas the aforementioned 996 Superhawk and VFR800.
Also the RC51 and GL1800... I had a GL1800 yrs ago for two up trips, and have ridden several RC51's.