VW, now THAT is a major problem.

[Nic in Western NYS]

The artist formerly known as Marion Morrison . Once again , in Oklahoma we prefer our cowboys to actually know the difference twixt a heifer and a steer 

   Dusty

Got it partner!

[Nic in Western NYS]

VW just sucks.  I bought a 1977 VW Scirocco as my first car.  Design was brilliant.  Engineering was terrible, so were materials.  Worst car I ever owned by a mile.

Often I have pondered buying another VW.  Nice designs.  Decent prices.  But this corporate screw up, and lying, and deceit eliminates VW, and Porsche from any future purchase. 

Never.

Bought a beautiful Passat 4wd new in 2002.  Had incredibly bad throttle response off idle that dealer/independent mechanic/I couldn't figure out how to fix and no help from warranty.  Sold car in 2003, no VWs since. 

[AJ Huff]

I'm really surprised that there hasn't been a call for more testing. Even with VW admitting wrong doing.

-AJ

[sib]

What color was the cow ?

  Dusty

Well, cows produce a lot of methane, a serious greenhouse gas.  I wonder whether the official numbers on bovine methane release have been doctored.

[oldbike54]

Well, cows produce a lot of methane, a serious greenhouse gas.  I wonder whether the official numbers on bovine methane release have been doctored.

 Yeah , and they take up a lot of space also .

  Dusty

[Kentktk]

VW just sucks.  I bought a 1977 VW Scirocco as my first car.  Design was brilliant.  Engineering was terrible, so were materials.  Worst car I ever owned by a mile.

Often I have pondered buying another VW.  Nice designs.  Decent prices.  But this corporate screw up, and lying, and deceit eliminates VW, and Porsche from any future purchase. 

Never.

They all lie and deceive, at least they haven`t killed anyone like GM has with their deceptions. Which company do you think hasn`t lied that you would buy from? Nothing US for sure hasn`t lied about some of their crap.

[AJ Huff]

If lying was an issue for me I wouldn't have mortgage or a checking account or IRA.

-AJ

[jas67]

So, today, I get two "Safety Recall" letters from VW, something about a steering wheel clock spring?
WTF is that?    Is that like having to change the carburetor oil or something?

Oh, and get this; they don't have the parts yet, so, they'll be sending another recall notice when they have the part.

Since I can no longer trust anything VW says, the conspiracy theorist in me has got wonder if it is just a scare tactic to get owners to bring their cars in so they can put the emissions recall on when they're done with it.

I hate VW.    I would be very happy if they'd just buy their *%&*@&* cars back from me for a fair market (before the lie) value so I could buy cars from a trust worthy company (who would that be).

EDIT: I looked up steering clock spring.  It is a real part, but,  I could still see lying, cheating VW withholding this recall until the emissions recall is ready so that they can inflict the emissions recall on cars that come in for the clock spring.


 

[rodekyll]

Hmmm.

My understanding is that it's the diag-level software that's lying, not the mapping itself.  If that's true, then what exactly is the recall doing -- correcting the diag software or changing the mapping?  In other words, when it's over, does the vehicle comply with EPA or not?  Do the economy and smog numbers actually change or not?

So who knows what's happening?

[PJPR01]

It seems that VW may now be on the hook for $87Billion!  These numbers keep going up every day...and sure enough, sales are starting to stagnate....no surprise there.  I still think that it's the loss of future sales that will be the larger impact, as people will run away from the brand like they did for Audis with the unintended acceleration, it took quite a few years for these negative brand perceptions to revert, no matter what the reason for their origin.

[jas67]

Hmmm.

My understanding is that it's the diag-level software that's lying, not the mapping itself.  If that's true, then what exactly is the recall doing -- correcting the diag software or changing the mapping?  In other words, when it's over, does the vehicle comply with EPA or not?  Do the economy and smog numbers actually change or not?

So who knows what's happening?

The real NOx emissions are too high.    VW will have to change the software to increase the amount of EGR used, which will reduce NOx, fuel economy, and possibly performance.

Another option is to add SCR (selective catalyst reduction) Urea injection.   That would be MUCH more expensive to add, but, could result in reducing the NOx emissions w/o reducing fuel economy, or at least having less impact on fuel economy.

[Robert]

 Fella here in town bought a new VW diesel 5 years ago , sure enough last week , bam , herpes .
= = =
I guess I got 2015-2012 = 3,   so 2 years left.

Whew.

[Kev m]

Hmmm.

My understanding is that it's the diag-level software that's lying, not the mapping itself.  If that's true, then what exactly is the recall doing -- correcting the diag software or changing the mapping?  In other words, when it's over, does the vehicle comply with EPA or not?  Do the economy and smog numbers actually change or not?

So who knows what's happening?

RK,

The ECU software detects when the car is being tested and turns on the emission equipment that is normally shut off during regular operation.

So if corrected the maps will change to meet emissions standards all the time.

[oldbike54]

Fella here in town bought a new VW diesel 5 years ago , sure enough last week , bam , herpes .
= = =
I guess I got 2015-2012 = 3,   so 2 years left.

Whew.

 My understanding is only the 2010 models caused this issue  Might be a good idea to be careful however , apparently VW has been a bit sneaky lately .

 Dusty

[canuguzzi]

If this was only software, you'd think they'd have a fix out already and then deal with reduced performance later on.

Maybe the engines suffer other problems if they run within the emissions restrictions for any length of time

[dibble]

Exhaust, but upstream of the cat.

You want me to pee on my cat she aint going to like that.

[Dogwalker]

Maybe the engines suffer other problems if they run within the emissions restrictions for any length of time

That's what they said immediately. If the engine runs within the emissions restrictions, it's lifespan, and that of the particulate filters, is expected to reduce.

[Aaron D.]

And now, Mr. Piech has returned "triumphantly" through the gates, chauffeured in his red Bentley by his wife.

Actually it happened the day after Winterkorn resigned. The Porsche family also increased their holdings of VW stock and now nears control of VW.

[jas67]

http://www.tflcar.com/2015/10/how-much-power-does-the-vw-tdi-lose-in-cheater-mode-video-report/

When run in "EPA test mode", the 2.0L TDI looses as much as 32 ft*lbs at 2,700 RPM -- right were you need it when accelerating.

[Nic in Western NYS]

That's a huge power drop.  I would guess that would be noticeable to the average non-enthusiast car owner.  I heard an interview with someone from the research team at West Virginia University and they said that they had tested the BMW diesels and they had no suspicions of cheating with the BMWs even though the power and efficiency were excellent.  Is BMW just that much better at engineering these engines than VW?

[sib]

That's a huge power drop.  I would guess that would be noticeable to the average non-enthusiast car owner.  I heard an interview with someone from the research team at West Virginia University and they said that they had tested the BMW diesels and they had no suspicions of cheating with the BMWs even though the power and efficiency were excellent.  Is BMW just that much better at engineering these engines than VW?

I believe I read that VW chose not to use systems like the one BMW uses because they already had too much invested in their own, inadequate system and they decided it would be too expensive to switch.

[Peter from Sch'dy]

Are all US VW's manufactured in Chattanooga? Have layoffs started yet? Sad for the employees.

Best,
Peter

[jas67]

Are all US VW's manufactured in Chattanooga? Have layoffs started yet? Sad for the employees.

Best,
Peter

Only Passat, and, I think Tiguan as well.

[jas67]

I believe I read that VW chose not to use systems like the one BMW uses because they already had too much invested in their own, inadequate system and they decided it would be too expensive to switch.

It was Mercedes' Blue Tec that they were going to license, and then did not.

They are starting to use urea injection on the models that didn't previously have it.  The 2015 Golf now has it.

[sib]

It was Mercedes' Blue Tec that they were going to license, and then did not.

They are starting to use urea injection on the models that didn't previously have it.  The 2015 Golf now has it.

Urea injection seems like the worst possible solution.  Does this mean that the car needs a constant supply of urea?  Solid or liquid?  How often does it need to be replenished?  Where is it sold?  How much does it cost?  What happens if the driver decides not to supply it?  How is its use enforced?

Well, I got this off the web site https://www.cars.com/articles/2013/10/how-much-does-refilling-the-volkswagen-passat-tdis-urea-cost/.  I have no idea if it's accurate, but it sure sounds like a kludge.

"How much does refilling the Volkswagen Passat TDI's urea cost?"
Anonymous
Urea is a diesel exhaust fluid that is sprayed into the exhaust stream to reduce emissions on some diesel models and must be replenished periodically.
It costs nothing for the first three years or 36,000 miles you own a Passat TDI because the diesel exhaust fluid is included in Volkswagen's free maintenance program. Volkswagen says the urea tank should be refilled every 10,000 miles, making the first three on the house. How often a diesel vehicle needs urea can vary, so 10,000 miles is only a guide.
After the free maintenance ends, it depends on where you go for service, what they charge and how much you need. You don't have to go to a Volkswagen dealer because any repair shop should have urea on hand or be able to get it. We've seen reports from owners that they've spent as little as $10 to have the urea tank topped off (apparently with a gallon or so of the fluid) to more than $50.
The tank on the Passat holds five gallons, and a warning light that urea needs to be added should come on long before the tank runs dry. If you let it go until the tank is empty, the car won't start in order to comply with emissions regulations.
You also can purchase urea at a parts store and do it yourself. Prices ranged from $4.39 to $7.50 for a gallon and $11 to $15 for 2.5 gallons at two online parts websites we checked. Dealerships and repair shops will likely charge more. If you decide to do it yourself, handle with care. The urea fluid can damage paint finishes.

[Kev m]

Urea injection seems like the worst possible solution.  Does this mean that the car needs a constant supply of urea?  Solid or liquid?  How often does it need to be replenished?  Where is it sold?  How much does it cost?  What happens if the driver decides not to supply it?  How is its use enforced?

It is literally what every other manufacturer uses.

[sib]

It is literally what every other manufacturer uses.

OK, thanks, I learned something.  I'm a clueless Prius driver.

[Dogwalker]

Urea injection seems like the worst possible solution.

In their case is the only one.
There are two existing tecnologies to clean diesels' emissions.
The SCR (Selective Catalytic Reduction), the one with the urea injection.
The LNT (Lean NOx trap).

The LNT tecnology doesn't requires urea. It absorbs the NOX, and periodically (filter regeneration) transforms it in  water and nitrogen using the same diesel fuel as a reactant.
But it requires an already very clean diesel engine to begin with, and is more complex to add to an existing vehicle (new ducts for fuel, new software to decide when to regenerate the filter, elimination of the existing catalyzer...).
The SCR is much easier and cheaper to add to an already built car.

[rc51owner]

Jetta's, Golfs (except GTI), and Beetles are built in Puebla, Mexico.

Not true for Canada.  Our 2011 5dr Golf TDI was made in Germany which is the reason why we bought the hatchback rather than the wagon version.

Cheers,

M

[Madtownguzzi]

It is literally what every other manufacturer uses.

You can get DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) at any major truck stop right at the diesel fuel Island. Around here it runs about $2.50 a gallon.