Death Risks of Motorcycles

[leafman60]

I know this is a  macabre topic about which most of don't want to dwell.

In the last 10 months, 4 people known to me, have been killed in motorcycle accidents. Information from these accidents do not indicate rider error.

A very good friend was killed on his new BMW RT last year on the Cherohala Skyway in North Carolina. Then, a couple two-up were killed on a Gold Wing in Tennessee.  Now this very young, but experienced, rider who is the son of a good friend and fellow rider was killed last Friday when a car turned in front of him. By the way, he was wearing a full-face helmet and protective gear.

I've been through this several times in the past and I know all the arguments, rationalizations offered in response to the hobby that certainly poses risks. But, this many fallen folks in such a short time weighs heavy on my thoughts.

Over the past couple of years, I've been coming to my senses a bit.  I've sold off my most-prolific performance bikes that tempt a willing mind when the flesh is weakened.  I've also throttled-back on the speed running. However, these recent accidents were not primarily due to speed.

Anyway, just a shout out. We will all pause and look up and then probably go on about our normal ways....  I'm double thinking it all.

http://www.gulfcoastnewstoday.com/area_news/article_c8b06d9e-c1ea-11e5-8a53-632ba337db36.html

[sib]

Just curious, do you know whether the other three of your recently deceased friends/acquaintances were wearing helmets when they had their fatal accidents?

[leafman60]

Just curious, do you know whether any of your recently deceased friends/acquaintances were wearing helmets when they had their fatal accidents?

Yes, all of these riders were wearing full-face helmets and protective gear. In most cases, their bodies were almost scrape-free after the impact. The young guy, had on all the correct gear.  The blunt impact killed him.

All of these deaths involved an impact with another vehicle or a guard rail.

[sib]

Thanks.  I'm one of those riders who never leave their garage without a helmet on, so it's good to be reminded that gear doesn't provide complete protection.  It's a hedge, at best.

[Wayne Orwig]

Do you know where on the Cherohala the crash occurred?

I couple of years back I was riding with a friend and he crashed at a place called "No Name Gap". Talking to the officer that wrote up the report, he said that was a VERY common crash spot. And we noticed that the hillside going around the curve was littered with broken vehicle parts.

When I was up there a few months ago, that curve now has a number of solar powered flashing lights. Something motivated them to upgrade the signs.

[RayB]

Leafman
I've been thinking anout the risks lately too. I guess i go through this about once a year. Most recently when we had the tank slapper thread going. Some risks you can manage and some you can't. We all think it will happen to somebody else_not us. The only true way to eliminate the risk is to not participate in motorcycle riding at all. I'm not ready for that even at age 65.....I'm too immature.

[jackson]

I'm 67 and have had to stop riding (two times) for long periods due to heart problems.  The last time was for two and a half years.  Both times, it damned near drove me nuts because I missed motorcycling so much. 
I started riding legally when I was 21 and had just finished my stint in the Navy and although the thought that I could be seriously injured or killed due to riding a motorcycle was always present, I kept riding.  That feeling that one gets by riding a motorcycle stirs something in my brain that I'm not willing to give up easily.  When children came along, I always carried a high amount of life insurance & have never swung a leg over a bike without having good health insurance.  My thought has always been that if I go out riding a motorcycle, I will have been doing something that I genuinely love.  Fear of death simply isn't enough to get me to stop.

[bouts]

I try to avoid reading and thinking about these types of incidents, but it is part of the sport.  We have friends of the family who were involved in an accident with a car, about two years ago.  Couple about 5-10 years my senior, driving properly, other driver's fault.  They were banged up pretty bad, still having problems to this date.  Whenever I see them, I get the shivers/chills  I have to admit makes me think twice about riding.  But, I'll probably keep riding.  I think we all know when it's time for us to stop. 

[vstevens]

Several years ago, my father was in a serious motocycle accident.  He was riding his beloved Honda 750 in the Sierra Nevada of central California (he was born and raised there, knew it well).  Around a blind curve, a tractor pulled out onto the road and he had no choice but to put it down.  Nearly killed him.  All his ribs were broken and his sternum too.  He never went back to riding after that (he must of been in his late 50's at that time) but continued to express his love for motorcycles until a stroke put him on his back for a year and a half... then he passed.  Sometimes, I think it is better to go quickly, doing something you love, rather than lanquish in a hospital bed for too long. 

Consequently, never have heart surgery in the hospitals of central California.  Some of the worst in the country.

[swordds]

I haven't been riding motorcycles very long. I always wear a white helmet and lime yellow high visibility jacket which I hope helps, and I am 65 years old with only an old dog and two cats still dependent on me so I can be philosophical about dieing. I think I would rather be DOA than seriously injured. You can reduce your chances of dieing from one thing and you can reduce your changes of dieing from another thing, but you can't reduce your changes of dieing. So possibly death on a motorcycle is not a bad way to go?  Still it is always sad when young people die.

[MGPilot]

I'm a private pilot. I felt safer flying than riding motorcycles due to the traffic, gravel, etc., that affects motorcycles. I would take people for rides in the airplane, but not on the motorcycle.

Prospective passengers asked me if flying was safe. My answer was that it was not inherently dangerous, but it was unforgiving.

But I was fortunate to fly a powered glider (powered sailplane). More people die of sneezing each year than in sailplanes....so, not a wild risk if you pay attention.

[Lcarlson]

Hey, we're all terminal -- NONE of us get out of this alive. There are many, many ways for it to happen, but it will. In the mean time, you've got to decide whether the incremental risk of death posed by riding motorcycles -- whatever that unknowable parameter may be -- is worth it to you individually. I did that calculus many years ago.

One more thought: if fear had prevented you from doing something that you love, and you were to get a terminal diagnosis tomorrow, how would you feel about what you had missed?

[Scud]

Wow - sorry to hear about so much loss in a short time, but thanks for bringing it up.

I'm a safety-first rider. While I know that doesn't eliminate the risks, I've settled in with the risks by knowing that I am doing my best to manage them. There are lots of places to get advice about defensive riding, and I'm not meaning to "thread-drift" here. But here is a rule of mine, that I haven't seen in writing elsewhere:

"Always be able to stop in clear pavement that you can see." While this one does limit my speed in some of the twisty roads that I most enjoy, it has allowed me, on numerous occasions, to avoid debris, vehicles, animals, sand, and various other surprises that could have contributed to an accident. The above story about the tractor and the rider on well-known roads prompted me to share it. Hopefully it helps somebody else.

[Kev m]

Some risks you can manage and some you can't. We all think it will happen to somebody else_not us. The only true way to eliminate the risk is to not participate in motorcycle riding at all.

I'll go a step further. You can't ELIMINATE all risk anyway.

Sure you can eliminate the risk from motorcycling, but people die in car crashes too.

And pedestrians get killed too... and people fall from ladders...and then there's heart disease. You can run for health, but you might get hit by a car etc.

Life is a constant balancing act of risk vs. reward.

Pick your poison and take your chances.

[Scud]

I'm a private pilot. I felt safer flying than riding motorcycles due to the traffic, gravel, etc., that affects motorcycles. I would take people for rides in the airplane, but not on the motorcycle.

Prospective passengers asked me if flying was safe. My answer was that it was not inherently dangerous, but it was unforgiving.

But I was fortunate to fly a powered glider (powered sailplane). More people die of sneezing each year than in sailplanes....so, not a wild risk if you pay attention.

...and I would imagine that many more people sneeze each year than fly a sailplane. Therefore the risks need to be base-adjusted so we can make a meaningful comparison. I think that as motorcyclists, we need to be careful not to over-rationalize. I am not a pilot, but have done some work in flight safety training with major airlines. When they compare safety of commercial aviation to things like "crossing the street" or "riding in a taxi" they standardize the bases for comparison, for example, number of miles travelled (risk per mile) or number of people participating (risk per person). "Risk per mile" obviously favors long-haul aviation, it's one of the "safest" things you can do - but it is unforgiving of errors.

Since I'm on a ramble.... There are also huge risks to uneducated riders. I can't cite the stats, but I've seen some staggering numbers about the risks to uneducated, unlicensed, or inexperienced riders. It seems that the first year of riding is a major hurdle (one I would not have cleared if I had not been wearing a helmet, but that's yet another story).

[MGPilot]

...There are also huge risks to uneducated riders.

I realize that the OP is referring to folks who are probably experienced, licensed, etc.

But, FWIW, I was talking to a highway patrol officer one time who shook his head at the disproportionate number of accidents he saw with unlicensed, untrained riders.

That said, motorcycling remains unforgiving.  Sometimes before a ride I remind myself that I've never won a lottery or other drawing. So if I'm depending on my luck....

[wavedog]

Sorry about your friends and friends family that have had these unfortunate things happen to them. It does tend to give one pause and to consider our actions. It also helps us to cherish every moment that we are still breathing. Risk - reward, time with people that we love/value - lots to think about.

[kingoffleece]

I've taken the Stayin' Safe class twice in the past 5 years.  Been riding since I was 9 and now 58.  I learned more in those two weekends than all the sincere efforts I made to learn how to ride better and safer prior to the class.

I practice panic breaking from 30 up to 80 every week during the summer, set up cones, and so forth I  order to, I hope, level the field a bit.  That said, the morons on the phone and noon drunks are what really worry me.

VERY sorry for your loss of friends.  There's no words for it.

[Gliderjohn]

I have rode motorcycles regularly since 1979 and have been flying sailplanes since 1985. Both activities are more dangerous than droving in a car or flying in commercial airliners.
One has to determine one's own personal risk limits and then do what one can to minimize the risks. Living a totally protected life would be very, very boring.
The two sports have some common threads concerning safety:
Plan and preflight/ride.
Know the weather and other conditions.
Keep equipment in good working order.
Know thine own limits and the limits of the equipment.
Never quit trying to learn more about skill and safety.
Always be scanning for danger when flying/riding.
Always be planning ahead of the moment.
The are no laws in an emergency. Do whatever you have to.
Showing off is a good way to at best embarrass yourself, at worst kill yourself and maybe others.
Demonstrate superior judgment so that you will not have to demonstrate superior skills (if you process them).
Never, ever give up if things go to crap.

GliderJohn

[LowRyter]

sorry for your the loss of your friends.  It's a risky hobby.  I've done some dumb stuff myself and came out lucky.  I've had a few fall downs and crashes. 

It's the same saw: wear your gear, practice your skills, know your limits, pay attention and use good judgement. 

If it ain't fun, don't do it.

Eating tasty food will kill you.  It's threatening me.

[Rough Edge racing]

 Isn't the danger part of the thrill of motorcycling? I know it is for me....Not saying crashing is something you want to do but you must accept the possibility....My wife's cousin played it safe all his life only to die of disease two weeks after he retired...

[TwoEds]

I'll go a step further. You can't ELIMINATE all risk anyway.

Sure you can eliminate the risk from motorcycling, but people die in car crashes too.

And pedestrians get killed too... and people fall from ladders...and then there's heart disease. You can run for health, but you might get hit by a car etc.

Life is a constant balancing act of risk vs. reward.

Pick your poison and take your chances.

 :1:

[not-fishing]

Funny how personal experience works.

I personally knew two people who died playing Tennis which I remind my Tennis Junky wife of every so often

I personally knew two people who died on bicycles after being hit by drunk drivers.

I personally know of no one killed on a motorcycle.

Recently the British did a Horseback Riding accident analysis and found Horseback riding was 20 times more dangerous than riding a motorcycle.  my busted right shoulder and Christopher Reeve agree

Research Review
Spinal injuries resulting from horse riding accidents

J R Silver

High Street, Wendover, Bucks HP22 6EA, UK

Correspondence to: J R Silver, 8 High Street, Wendover, Bucks HP22 6EA, UK

Horse riding carries a high participant morbidity and mortality. Whereas a motor-cyclist can expect a serious incident at the rate of 1 per 7000 h, the horse-rider can expect a serious accident once in every 350 h, ie 20 times as dangerous as motor cycling.

[kirby1923]

         
         
         
         
         
         
         
   
         
         
         
         
         
         
 
   
           
           
           
     
           
           

 
 
I figure I have lived on the edge for most of my life.
I grew up on a cattle ranch in west Texas and I can say that I have had more incidence's of bodily harm riding horses than flying off carriers (+combat) and  flying all over the world for 35 years  in airliners and riding motos (1,000,000 miles at least), still at it.
I have been throne, bitten, kicked fallen and rolled over.
Life is full of pitfalls. Some make a long one and some don't.
Cheeseburgers are more of a threat than two wheelers or horses.
mike 
 
         
 
                   
 
 
 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Sorry, Leafman. That's all I can say. I lost two nephews one year to motorcycle accidents myself.
I've mentioned here before that riding a motorcycle demands a fair amount of denial. Any thinking person *knows* it is dangerous. About all you can do is manage the risk as best you can. If the risk is worth the payback..you continue to ride.
As far as flying goes, I consider flying experimental and antique airplanes considerably safer than motorcycle riding. "The superior pilot uses his superior judgement to keep him out of situations that require exercising his superior skills." 
 You don't have to deal with the texting driver coming across the center line, soccer mom swatting at her kids in the back seat, etc. We all know those risks, and those are tougher to manage.

[Lcarlson]

Isn't the danger part of the thrill of motorcycling? I know it is for me....Not saying crashing is something you want to do but you must accept the possibility....My wife's cousin played it safe all his life only to die of disease two weeks after he retired...

And a corollary: isn't our willingness to accept the danger of motorcycling part of what differentiates us from everybody else? I feel that recognition every time a stranger approaches me to talk just because I'm on a bike, and they're not.

[segesta]

As I get older, I tend to ride alone, on empty roads, on early mornings (No, I'm not some hypermiling tourmaster). That way my only enemies are potholes, not the aforementioned texters, soccer moms, and guys in white panel vans with ladders on top.

[normzone]

[ Horse riding carries a high participant morbidity and mortality. Whereas a motor-cyclist can expect a serious incident at the rate of 1 per 7000 h, the horse-rider can expect a serious accident once in every 350 h, ie 20 times as dangerous as motor cycling. ]

Interesting numbers - I heard that aerial combat flyers get in big trouble about once every 2,000 missions, whereas spacecraft blow up at about one in 350.

[Chuck in Indiana]

[ Horse riding carries a high participant morbidity and mortality. Whereas a motor-cyclist can expect a serious incident at the rate of 1 per 7000 h, the horse-rider can expect a serious accident once in every 350 h, ie 20 times as dangerous as motor cycling. ]

Interesting numbers - I heard that aerial combat flyers get in big trouble about once every 2,000 missions, whereas spacecraft blow up at about one in 350.

One of our astronauts (don't remember who) almost died when he slipped in the shower..

[Guzzer]

I've also been a pilot and feel safer in my small plane than on a motorcycle.  I minimize some dangers with road choice & speed.  Here in Missouri you can download maps from MoDot of "bicycle routes" that the state has researched.  These are low traffic, paved roads, usually county roads and state highways that have low use.  Since I live in the country, I can plan a route that uses these roads 90% of the time.  The trip takes longer, but for me, more time is just more fun!  I minimize my exposure to traffic and I can just enjoy the scenery.
I've found that the "busy" time on these roads are morning and evening as people go to & from work so from 9am to 3pm I have the road to myself. Roads are pretty empty even driving through small towns. Also, fewer deer at those times! I'm retired so I can choose quieter times.  If I need to get somewhere fast, I drive the pickup.