New water cooled 8V Norge and Stelvio

[canuguzzi]

Yes, the current 8V engines are air/oil cooled and could be called liquid cooled and the BMW isn't really water cooling but some mixture of liquids.

I'd not only buy one, I'd be willing to buy a first year model.

[flip]

I'd be interested but I'd like to wait until Pete has had a few of the new engines apart.

[Huzo]

My vote was no, but only because they would lose some of their "rawness" and I'm not exactly sure what I mean by that. I think there is a fuzzy line between what a bike "is" and what a bike "does". As an example, a Suzuki B King is a Hyabusa engined naked bike that will do ANYTHING, but for me it "is" "nothing", as Pete pointed out quite correctly, the MGS 01 can't match the Panigale virtually anywhere, yet IMO completely trumps the Duke for "soul" and attachment value. The desirability of the Panigale is a function of it's performance and it has to sink or swim on that basis, how would it compete against the MGS 01 if the Power/Torque figures were the same, maybe 50/50 ???? Now if the MGS 01 had the same HP / Torque spec as the Duke what then ??? I'd say 2 to 1 against the Panigale. So back to the topic, I think the appeal of the Guzzi is it's simple functionality and even if you squeeze a couple more KW out of a liquid cooled Norge without the internals smashing out through the side and making a bee line for Lake Como, you've traded a lot of charm for an engine that'll still get wasted by just about any 1200 in a straight line, as long as it doesn't come from the Yew Ess Ay. If I'm reading him correctly and I hope I am, this is what Pete was saying on the "Street legal MGS 01" thread.

[canuguzzi]

I'd have to have both. I should have put that selection in but oh well.

If buy a water cooled Norge but keep the air/oil cooked one as well. I could see the extended service intervals coming in handy and done right, the aesthetics might not suffer at all.

The Norge already has a rather large oil cooler hanging out front, Italian design could surely fit a radiator above it. How often is it necessary to dive into what is behind it? It could be a slightly more is better result.

The choice might be made anyway as the current 8V isn't going to pass the future EU emissions anyway (IMO) and the US market wouldn't be enough to keep the 8V in production (also MO).

But two, one of each? What number goes on the check?

[PJPR01]

Does the new one come with any more HP or torque or better mileage?  For hotter climates, this might be a winner.

[canuguzzi]

For sure the water cooled job would see some gains in power although that might be icing on the cake. BMW is getting what, 125 HP? While that might be welcome and bikes like the Norge and Stelvio would gain followers if they had some more oomph for heavy two up riders.

If you didn't want the additional HP, select rain mode. Somehow, it doesn't seem too many riders select the lower power modes most of the time.

Its all speculation though but this might be the year one way or another, a new model announcement or the 8V fading away for 2017-18.

[PJPR01]

That's what I was thinking...today I was out riding with a friend on his BMW GS1200 air cooled bike, I believe he said he has around 95 hp which is just a touch above the Norge, and the new H2O cooled GS1200 was around 120 or 125...so spot on there.  More power for 2 up riding would be just fine indeed, although I have to say, I've been very pleasantly surprised at how easily the Norge rides 2 up with bags fully loaded up any grade...but a little more HP would be great!

[canuguzzi]

Yup, the power of the 8V Norge is plenty and isn't wanting in any area of performance even two up. I can see the Norge as being the hang around one while others come and go. Having a garage full would leave some sitting idle too long, two seems to be about it.

The 8V Norge costs nothing to keep, just gas and oil. A new model Norge would probably be just different enough that having both wouldn't be an issue.

[ITSec]

If and when this occurs, there's little doubt there would be some knowledge transfer between the Aprilia and Moto Guzzi design engineers - so I'm a bit more open to an early production unit than I would be otherwise.

I'd likely be a buyer, just not sure how quickly...

[PJPR01]

A few more color choices would also make it interesting...maybe a Deep Black Cherry, Midnight Blue, British Racing Green would be some nice options as well...get a little visual excitement going as well.

[Cool Runnings]

Tuono Sport-Touring bike. 

[M0T0Geezer]

A few more color choices would also make it interesting...maybe a Deep Black Cherry, Midnight Blue, British Racing Green would be some nice options as well...get a little visual excitement going as well.

Agreed in full.

Anyone here know if the Norge fairing color is painted-on, or is the actual color of the fairing material?

[LowRyter]

BMW really stepped up the performance with water cooled boxers.

[Huzo]

My Norge is red, and a small attachment peice broke off the inside of the fairing once, it was white below the surfsce if I remember correctly

[jas67]

I'd be interested but I'd like to wait until Pete has had a few of the new engines apart.

Or at least until they've been out a few years and Pete HASN'T had to take one apart.

[jas67]

BMW really stepped up the performance with water cooled boxers.

I've ridden both the oil-cooled R1200GS and the water cooled R1200GS, the difference in performance is definitely very noticeable.

[canuguzzi]

I've ridden both the oil-cooled R1200GS and the water cooled R1200GS, the difference in performance is definitely very noticeable.

Was it a general performance boost throughout or relegated to certain parts of the rpm range?

Water cooling like anything, if done right can add to instead of take away from reliability and performance. The Norge isn't lacking in engine performance by any measure. What is gained is continued production in the light of ever increasing emissions regs, it would be a sad day to see the Norge/Stelvio being discontinued.

Do you think water cooling would change the character of the engine? I'm thinking it wouldn't and done right how the engine looks could even be enhanced.

[PJPR01]

If I'm not mistaken, the last Norge already rolled off the assembly line a few weeks ago...just rumour, but perhaps someone can confirm.

[Cool Runnings]

If I'm not mistaken, the last Norge already rolled off the assembly line a few weeks ago...just rumour, but perhaps someone can confirm.

Death of the Norge?

[PJPR01]

Well...it has been a 10 year run...not bad!

[Perazzimx14]

I voted no but in all fairness I wouldn't buy any new Guzzi unless they reverted back to carbs and 2V motors.

I guess it safe to say all my Guzzi's are "liguid) cooled. They all have finned oil pans to reject heat.

[Cool Runnings]

I voted no but in all fairness I wouldn't buy any new Guzzi unless they reverted back to carbs and 2V motors.

I guess it safe to say all my Guzzi's are "liguid) cooled. They all have finned oil pans to reject heat.

You sound like a Evo kind of guy. 

[stormshearon]

I voted no only because I just purchased a 2014 Stelvio and this should be my last bike purchase. If a water cooled version had been available at the time, I would have considered it.

[AH Fan]

My vote was no, but only because they would lose some of their "rawness" and I'm not exactly sure what I mean by that. I think there is a fuzzy line between what a bike "is" and what a bike "does". As an example, a Suzuki B King is a Hyabusa engined naked bike that will do ANYTHING, but for me it "is" "nothing", as Pete pointed out quite correctly, the MGS 01 can't match the Panigale virtually anywhere, yet IMO completely trumps the Duke for "soul" and attachment value. The desirability of the Panigale is a function of it's performance and it has to sink or swim on that basis, how would it compete against the MGS 01 if the Power/Torque figures were the same, maybe 50/50 ???? Now if the MGS 01 had the same HP / Torque spec as the Duke what then ??? I'd say 2 to 1 against the Panigale. So back to the topic, I think the appeal of the Guzzi is it's simple functionality and even if you squeeze a couple more KW out of a liquid cooled Norge without the internals smashing out through the side and making a bee line for Lake Como, you've traded a lot of charm for an engine that'll still get wasted by just about any 1200 in a straight line, as long as it doesn't come from the Yew Ess Ay. If I'm reading him correctly and I hope I am, this is what Pete was saying on the "Street legal MGS 01" thread.

Yup ............. My thoughts exactly. The me too group/s in this world of machines is getting pretty old.

Ciao           

[bad Chad]

I like the way air cooled motors look.  Water cooled motors can be made to look like air cooled, but to me that seems like fraud.

I think bikes should be air cooled, no logic to it, I just like the concept, the motor sits in the open, why not?

I know there are good arguments to be made for the logic of liquid cooling, fine by me, I just have no interest in owning one.

[Perazzimx14]

You sound like a Evo kind of guy. 

I'm not kewl nuff + I don't have a corncob pipe and panniers made out of kitty litter buckets

[canuguzzi]

Can the 8V engine meet Euro emissions requirements on the way?

If so, does anyone have a source to that info? If not, just how does Moto Guzzi get the current 8V to do it?

If you have the info, please post it.

More power wasn't the only reason BMW went to water cooling.

[bad Chad]

You might as well be talking of rainbows and u unicorns..

[canuguzzi]

They are water cooled.

[beetle]

The current 8V (1400) meets Euro 4. Guzzi has until the end of 2021 to carry on with these engines. The 1200 was Euro 3, but I don't think it would take much to bring them to Euro 4. Anything could happen in 5 years.