V9 Review Thread. Merged Threadfest

[JeffOlson]

That Cycle World review is great!

[Xlratr]

That review will make the folks in Mandello smile! It should sell some bikes.
 

[O]

All this talk about putting the V9 engine in the V7 series bikes is just that.  Dave Richardson from Moto International says he has heard NOTHING about such a thing happening, and he's plugged in, no?

Sounds logical TO US, but does Guzzi and logic always go hand in hand?

Fair enough, but the V7 variants are 50% of Guzzi sales.  Unless the current V9 models sell in a VERY big way, I can't see Guzzi being able to  drop V7s in 2017, which is what they'll have to do per European emissions standards.

[JeffOlson]

^ According to one of the recent reviews, from a reviewer who was there in Italy listening to MG talk about the V9 and who got to ride it, MG is supposed to be coming out with a detuned version of the V9 a little later this year. Why would they do that when they have the V7 II?

Since the V9 uses the same basic frame as the V7 II, and since the V9 motor and transmission are more up-to-date than the V7 II motor and transmission, I like to think that MG will switch over entirely to the new V9 platform and drop the V7 II, with many different flavors available, not just the current Roamer and Bobber, but also with a beginner's version, a standard version, a scrambler version, and a cafe racer version. Oh, and most of them will have regular-sized wheels and horizontal top tubes!

But that is just my wishful thinking. ;)

[bad Chad]

And what review would that be???

[JeffOlson]

^ http://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/bike-reviews/moto-guzzi/moto-guzzi-v9-roamer-and-bobber-2016---first-ride-review/#.VvM9S_pHaK2

[Lcarlson]

The V7 motor can't comply with EU4 emissions standards, and since Europe is the biggest Guzzi market, it's dead. I used to to think that the popularity of the V7 would mean that we'd see a V9 Stone /Special/Racer line in a of couple of years. I no longer do. I think they're history. Guzzi will expand the V9 line, and probably the 1400s as well, but I think they'll retire the V7 to an honorable and successful place in their lineage, but will move on. As they should.

[rocker59]

^ According to one of the recent reviews, from a reviewer who was there in Italy listening to MG talk about the V9 and who got to ride it, MG is supposed to be coming out with a detuned version of the V9 a little later this year. Why would they do that when they have the V7 II?
 

for tiered licensing in Europe.

A learner V9 is a pretty good indicator that the V7s are done.

[mrrick]

Oh, and most of them will have regular-sized wheels and horizontal top tubes!

If they dropped the 19" front to 18", and put another 18 on the rear instead of the goofy 16, that top tube wd be pretty close to horizontal, as it should be.
Give them the Alpina system, too, so we'd have tubeless spoked wheels, lookin Sweet!  Boranni small flange alloy rims and stainless straight-pull spokes, mmm...
 

[Dogwalker]

^ According to one of the recent reviews, from a reviewer who was there in Italy listening to MG talk about the V9 and who got to ride it, MG is supposed to be coming out with a detuned version of the V9 a little later this year. Why would they do that when they have the V7 II?

Cause the bike, as is, is too powerful to be driven by newly licenced drivers in EU.
To sell a detuned version is common practice here (IE, there is a detuned version of the Ducati Scrambler 800, even if there is the 400 version too). The advantage of the detuned versions is that they can be retuned to the original specs, when the driver acquires enough experience, or first to sell the bike.

[Dogwalker]

Guzzi will never drop the V7 line, as long as it sells.
The only question is if they'll take advantage of the mandatory Euro-4 to renew it with the V9 engine (there will be no need to even change the name. Moto Guzzi already produced 850cc "V7"), or they'll make the 750cc Euro-4 compliant, and wait a couple of years more to use the 850 on that line.

[jas67]

Guzzi will never drop the V7 line, as long as it sells.
The only question is if they'll take advantage of the mandatory Euro-4 to renew it with the V9 engine (there will be no need to even change the name. Moto Guzzi already produced 850cc "V7"), or they'll make the 750cc Euro-4 compliant, and wait a couple of years more to use the 850 on that line.

I thought the learner requirements were now such that "detuned" wasn't good enough; that they don't want it to be easy to return to full power.

I would think that a learner compliant V9 based bike would be the new V9 engine with a smaller bore, and a displacement of 750, or maybe even a little less.

I would hope that we would get the 850cc engine in our V7 replacements.

[arveno]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtVNok7obko

[chuck peterson]

Great scenery....not much of a review

[bpreynolds]

Uh.  I guess this is a review from Motorcycle Cruiser. 

http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/moto-guzzi-v9-bobber-roamer-tested

One paragraph saying the Roamer is the long distance machine and will take you "far" then the very next paragraph saying he likes the Bobber better because he could drive it longer in comfort but doesn't say why. 

Oh well.  At least glad to see the bikes getting some mostly good press from the cruiser segment. 

[DaSwami]

All this talk about replacing or phasing out the V7 II in it's current form makes me want to just go buy another.  I think it is the pinnacle of the V7 development, and the new 6-speed tranny is a delight compared to the old 5-speed.  Ergos are about as good as they are gonna get (still lacking in room compared to my CB1100 and Triumph Scrambler).  Do ya think I'm nuts for getting my current V7 II a stablemate?  Sounds like the model is either "one and done" or maybe "two years and done" given the current sentiment.

[keener]

All this talk about replacing or phasing out the V7 II in it's current form makes me want to just go buy another.  I think it is the pinnacle of the V7 development, and the new 6-speed tranny is a delight compared to the old 5-speed.  Ergos are about as good as they are gonna get (still lacking in room compared to my CB1100 and Triumph Scrambler).  Do ya think I'm nuts for getting my current V7 II a stablemate?  Sounds like the model is either "one and done" or maybe "two years and done" given the current sentiment.

Maybe a test ride on the V9 will change your mind, yeah never know time marches on ................... .

[Adan]

All this talk about replacing or phasing out the V7 II in it's current form makes me want to just go buy another.  I think it is the pinnacle of the V7 development, and the new 6-speed tranny is a delight compared to the old 5-speed.  Ergos are about as good as they are gonna get (still lacking in room compared to my CB1100 and Triumph Scrambler).  Do ya think I'm nuts for getting my current V7 II a stablemate?  Sounds like the model is either "one and done" or maybe "two years and done" given the current sentiment.

V9 supposedly has better design for cooling, larger flywheel, new improved bevel gear, and the list goes on.  And it's competitive in price with the V7.

But I hear ya.  I've owned a V7, and now that I'm thinking about getting another Guzzi, the V7 still looks very good to me.  Do I need a faster Guzzi?  No, not really, the V7 was fast enough.  I like the look of the Roamer except that, as others have pointed out, the forks look like chopsticks framing the fat front tire.  The V7 looks more proportional front to back.

[Kev m]

All this talk about replacing or phasing out the V7 II in it's current form makes me want to just go buy another.  I think it is the pinnacle of the V7 development, and the new 6-speed tranny is a delight compared to the old 5-speed.  Ergos are about as good as they are gonna get (still lacking in room compared to my CB1100 and Triumph Scrambler).  Do ya think I'm nuts for getting my current V7 II a stablemate?  Sounds like the model is either "one and done" or maybe "two years and done" given the current sentiment.

Yes I think you're nuts.

Why wouldn't an 853cc V9 Stone or Special with the same bodywork as the current V7II (except possibly all in metal) be just as good or better than the current V7II?

I mean, it's not like they have to use the instrument cluster, tank, or even controls of the Roamer/Bobber on a V9 Stone/Special/Racer ??? So what's the hesitation?

[MariusD]

I can see Guzzi doing exactly what Triumph did with it's Bonnie line. Same engine block in both, the T120 and the 900 twin, except the 900 has a shorter stroke.

So musings of a detuned V9 motor (via a smaller stroke) make complete sense, and I'll bet is the route Guzzi will go.

Economies of scare is the name of the game in achieving better profitability!

However, this would probably mean that the next iteration of the V7 might gain weight (heavier block), but probably not anymore power, which really does make a good case for grabbing one of the older V7IIs, if that's what you like.

Speculating is fun, can't wait to see what comes of it.   

[Kev m]

However, this would probably mean that the next iteration of the V7 might gain weight (heavier block), but probably not anymore power, which really does make a good case for grabbing one of the older V7IIs, if that's what you like.

But indications are that the V9 hasn't gained any weight over the V7, despite having all metal fenders and sidecovers, and the new block etc.

[kevdog3019]

Yes I think you're nuts.

Why wouldn't an 853cc V9 Stone or Special with the same bodywork as the current V7II (except possibly all in metal) be just as good or better than the current V7II?

I mean, it's not like they have to use the instrument cluster, tank, or even controls of the Roamer/Bobber on a V9 Stone/Special/Racer ??? So what's the hesitation?

This ^^
Why does Guzzi need a 750 when they have a new 850??  Why de-tune it here in the states?  The 850 is still less ponies than most Jap 650's so no need to lessen the pull. The 850 should easily fill the 750 niche with bumped horses. It's not like it's a big difference guys, but updated yes. Get over the 750 thing vs. massive 850. It's not a big deal, but it's necessary. I say 750 is toast soon. Good move for Guzzi if they offer some resemblance of the V7 line with this new mille. Im not a fan of the V9's.

[Dogwalker]

I can see Guzzi doing exactly what Triumph did with it's Bonnie line. Same engine block in both, the T120 and the 900 twin, except the 900 has a shorter stroke.

So musings of a detuned V9 motor (via a smaller stroke) make complete sense, and I'll bet is the route Guzzi will go.

Economies of scare is the name of the game in achieving better profitability!

However, this would probably mean that the next iteration of the V7 might gain weight (heavier block), but probably not anymore power, which really does make a good case for grabbing one of the older V7IIs, if that's what you like.

The V9 engine is two kg (4.4 pound) heavier than the 750. The difference is only 1% of the weight of the bike.
An eventual shorter stroke V9, 750 with hemi heads (that I don't think they'll do), will likely have about the same power than the 850 (being able to rev higher) but with less torque.

[MariusD]

The V9 engine is two kg (4.4 pound) heavier than the 750. The difference is only 1% of the weight of the bike.
An eventual shorter stroke V9, 750 with hemi heads,(that I don't think they'll do), will likely have about the same power than the 850 (being able to rev higher) but with less torque.

That's awesome then. That's gotta be the route guzzi is going. It's the only thing that makes sense logistically, financially, etc. The v7 will still be a v7 just based on a different block. Perfecto!

[kevdog3019]

That's awesome then. That's gotta be the route guzzi is going. It's the only thing that makes sense logistically, financially, etc. The v7 will still be a v7 just based on a different block. Perfecto!

What makes you guys think Guzzi needs a 750?  Is that some sort of magic number in the motorcycle world?  Is 45 RWHP too much to warrant 38?  When Guzzi updated their V11 series to a 1200, I'm not seeing an 1100 offered any longer.  How is this different? When they went to 750, they no longer made 650's.

[jas67]

This ^^
Why does Guzzi need a 750 when they have a new 850??  Why de-tune it here in the states?  The 850 is still less ponies than most Jap 650's so no need to lessen the pull. The 850 should easily fill the 750 niche with bumped horses. It's not like it's a big difference guys, but updated yes. Get over the 750 thing vs. massive 850. It's not a big deal, but it's necessary. I say 750 is toast soon.

I would think that markets like the US that don't have tiered licensing will get the 850cc engine in the bikes currently known as V7II (Stone/Special/Scrambler/Racer).

But, for those markets that need < 50 HP learner bikes, they may go with smaller bores (or stroke) and make a 750cc version of the 850.

Good move for Guzzi if they offer some resemblance of the V7 line with this new mille. Im not a fan of the V9's.

 :1:

But, if they don't, I've got my V7 Special and Racer to keep me happy for years to come.

That said, I think (and hope) they'll sell a  lot of Roamers and Bobbers.

What makes you guys think Guzzi needs a 750?  Is that some sort of magic number in the motorcycle world?  Is 45 RWHP too much to warrant 38?  When Guzzi updated their V11 series to a 1200, I'm not seeing an 1100 offered any longer.  How is this different? When they went to 750, they no longer made 650's.

For learner bikes in the EU.    They need to be under 36 KW (49ish HP) or something in that neighborhood.

[oldbike54]

 I thought we had decided that the Heron head V7 couldn't meet the new EU emission regs . Aren't most countries with tiered licensing inside the EU ?

 Dusty

[kevdog3019]

I thought we had decided that the Heron head V7 couldn't meet the new EU emission regs . Aren't most countries with tiered licensing inside the EU ?

 Dusty

Thank you Dusty; the other point I didn't make.  This just doesn't add up to keeping the little guy around. The V9 was done for emissions I suspect and they said (I'm assuming) the bump up to 850 was reasonably easy. I'm told the jugs are the same size and Lario heads still fit the V9 like the V7.  Maybe this is an interim engine to some real beast of a sb. 4-valve heads!!! Hmmmm...

[DaSwami]

Yes I think you're nuts.

Why wouldn't an 853cc V9 Stone or Special with the same bodywork as the current V7II (except possibly all in metal) be just as good or better than the current V7II?

I mean, it's not like they have to use the instrument cluster, tank, or even controls of the Roamer/Bobber on a V9 Stone/Special/Racer ??? So what's the hesitation?

No argument from me, if that was going to be a true reality for the US market.  I understand the arguments, but it still takes a leap of faith that it is truly in Piaggio's plans for the V7. 

Too early to tell.  But I do like the V7 II just fine in its current config.  Really like it.

But, if they made this hypothetical V9 Stone a larger/taller bike than the V7, with the same layout, I would be salivating indeed.

[kevdog3019]

No argument from me, if that was going to be a true reality for the US market.  I understand the arguments, but it still takes a leap of faith that it is truly in Piaggio's plans for the V7. 

Too early to tell.  But I do like the V7 II just fine in its current config.  Really like it.

But, if they made this hypothetical V9 Stone a larger/taller bike than the V7, with the same layout, I would be salivating indeed.

It doesn't have to be larger and taller than the V7. The Roamer et al is the same frame as the v7 with a different swing arm. This gearbox in the latest v7 II was designed for the V9 not the V7. That's what we were told anyhow.  I think you guys are thinking this is a bigger engine... it's hardly different from the 750 and fits the same spaces. They can drop it in a current V7 layout and there you have it. I think people are making s mountain out of a mole hill with this mille.