MV Agusta Applies for Bankruptcy

[ScepticalScotty]

Pretty sure a Daytona 675 won a TT a few years ago. That'll do for me.

I'd be sad if MV went belly up, but sound financial planning and management doesn't sem to be part of thier plan. Triumphs progress has been slow and steady, but they are well established now as a decent sized player in the market.

[ITSec]

This is the article that actually might have some insight.

http://www.motorcycle.com/features/mv-agusta-in-yet-another-financial-crisis.html

The kid doesn't want to give up control of the company and doesn't want to live within his means.

Is this a European thing??

Not really - remember the dot-com collapse, the liar loans and real estate market, and the Wall Street bailout? Not to mention the Japanese market collapse in the late 90s, the current Chinese stock market, and numerous other examples. Pretty much human nature, which can only be overcome by self-discipline or imposed reality... 

[JeffOlson]

By the way, a bankruptcy is not usually at the taxpayers' expense. It is usually at the expense of owners and creditors, who are asked (or forced) to take a haircut (or a bath).

[LowRyter]

I am not sure why anyone here can choose a winner between Triumph and MV without riding them for some miles. 

I thought the Cal 14 was a better bike than the Harley, Indian, Kawasaki, and Victory after riding some of their respective bikes. 

I might add that I suspect the Beemer RT is a better ride than all of them.  But I didn't get enough seat time with Telelever to make a clear conclusion.  So far as power, it goes.

[Tom]

U.S. Chapter 11 Bankruptcy is a financial tool that is use to reorganize financial obligations far from liquidation.  The petition can be withdrawn during the whole process if the right concessions are obtained for both the debtor and those owed funds.

[Arizona Wayne]

M V Agusta has never been about selling enough MCs to pay for the race bikes they make/sell.   In fact in the `70s they hardly made any MCs and only cared about winning races.

I met a guy who had a Yamaha dealership in the SF Bay area back then and he wanted to sell MV Agustas, so he sent them a letter and let them know.  He never got anything back so forgot about it.  Then 1 day months later he gets a call from port there's a box from Italy for him to pick up.  He has no idea what they're talking about, but goes to see what is going on.  It was a crated up MV Agusta bike the factory sent him.  He paid the factory for that 750 and raced it in AFM for many years.   The rest of the story is what happened when he decided to sell it.

[oldbike54]

M V Agusta has never been about selling enough MCs to pay for the race bikes they make/sell.   In fact in the `70s they hardly made any MCs and only cared about winning races.

I met a guy who had a Yamaha dealership in the SF Bay area back then and he wanted to sell MV Agustas, so he sent them a letter and let them know.  He never got anything back so forgot about it.  Then 1 day months later he gets a call from port there's a box from Italy for him to pick up.  He has no idea what they're talking about, but goes to see what is going on.  It was a crated up MV Agusta bike the factory sent him.  He paid the factory for that 750 and raced it in AFM for many years.   The rest of the story is what happened when he decided to sell it.

 Wayne , the old MV made their money building helicopters , and the street bikes bore very little resemblance to the race bikes . The multi cylinder street bikes were shaft driven , and the engines and frames only kind of looked like the race bikes . The Count didn't want anyone to mount a challenge to the factories superiority . Don't think the modern company has any real ties to the Count's MV Agusta .

 Dusty

[Huzo]

Ya just can't mount a rational argument based around a bikes perceived superiority because riding a bike is fundamentally an irrational pursuit. If you consider the initial purchase price and subsequent depreciation, the amount it costs to do a 1,000 k weekend ride with 3 mates, versus what it would be if you all piled into a small hatch, factor in 15,000 k from a set of tyres which @ $500 AUD a set is $10 on top of every tank of fuel, insurance, risk, blah blah......I owned an MV Agusta F4 SPR for a couple of years, did 22,000 km on it and had heaps of people tell me how "lucky I was" to own it. One day I was out with a mate and he stopped for a drink and snack he had in his Gearsack on the back, then I thought if I wanted to circle Australia, the MV was useless, so virtually gave it back to the dealer and got a new Triumph Sprint ST and did the Oz trip and 70,000 k on top. So the point is (finally), you may as well stop bringing arguments to the table in an attempt to shoot the next guy down in an attempt to justify your purchase in your own mind. If YOU think your bike is better than anyone else's, then you must be right, because an opinion can't by definition,be wrong.

[Doppelgaenger]

It's an unfortunate reality that if you want to sell bikes, and stick around, you have to pander to the lowest common denominator while still making a decent product.

If you decide to make the best product you possibly can, without regards to cost or producibility, you go tits up. Examples of this being Lancia and Saab. They cared about making excellent vehicles, but ultimately they failed to stick around (Lancia still exists, but in name only) The big four are around today because they had the edge in reliability and the ability to pump out millions of bikes like the Honda Dream

Guzzi is following the economies of scale to stay in business with the v7, while Ducati rides on the coat tails of fame set by the 916. MV Agusta remains a mostly unknown name in motorcycling and their bikes don't offer anything special to make them desirable over the cheaper alternatives. I think if MVA went out and won at the TT or MotoGP then they would be able to reverse their fortunes, but I don't see that happening.

[Huzo]

Hey Doppy, if you think MV are going under because they don't offer anything special over their cheaper mainstream alternatives, what was it that made you choose your Breva over something that would perhaps have been cheaper and in some people's minds,more reliable ? My point is that there will probably always be people who want to exist a bit on the fringe, because bikes like Guzzi, MV, Ducati (to a degree), are just more interesting. What does the Honda forum look like ?

[lucydad]

I think Huzo nailed it on the head.

Applause and tip of the hat and poodle tail wags.

Riding is irrational, no doubt.  We all have our opinions, as we are all unique individuals.

Still hope MVA survives...

[bpreynolds]

Is this really a surprise to anyone?  At one of their recent press launches they even spent time trying to justify the bikes' HIGH pricetags by actually providing a presentation to try and show why they - as opposed to other European and especially Japanese makers - should be considered a "super premium" brand.  Their words.  Yet, only now has MV actually focused on making refined and street rideable bikes.  Whether it's their always ridiculed FI response, their odd ergos, or their track focus, they've just not been making bikes that serve as much beyond eye candy and panache.  Only now do they seem to be getting those things lined out on their bikes so maybe they will fill those '16 orders and come flush. 

As per the Triumph/MV comparison.  They've lost nearly every comparison to the little British bike not because journos take bribes, or because they are wankers (they are), or because they don't "understand" biking like we supposedly do  , but they've lost nearly all these comparisons because they are competing against what has been rated time and time again as one of the most well engineered and complete packages in motorcycling.  Not unlike many Geese, the Street Triple and/or the Daytona come together in a way that is beyond paper numbers - the FI is spot on, the handling is sublime, it is incredibly rideable in virtually any situation you place the engine.  You wanna commute?  It's fine with that.  You wanna highway ride or weekend tour.  Totally okay.  You want backroad bonkers.  Oh yeah.  All the while it has mostly done this without even modern riding aids like traction control, abs brakes, etc.  I don't think I respected any motorcycle more than I did that little Street Triple I owned.  So many times I got off the thing and just looked at saying wow, you are one ugly piece of amazing machinery.   

[boatdetective]

Is this really a surprise to anyone?  Only now has MV actually focused on making refined and street rideable bikes.  Whether it's their always ridiculed FI response, their odd ergos, or their track focus, they've just not been making bikes that serve as much beyond eye candy and panache.  Only now do they seem to be getting those things lined out on their bikes so maybe they will fill those '16 orders and come flush. 

As per the Triumph/MV comparison.  They've lost nearly every comparison to the little British bike not because journos take bribes, or because they are wankers (they are), or because they don't "understand" biking like we supposedly do  , but they've lost nearly all these comparisons because they are competing against what has been rated time and time again as one of the most well engineered and complete packages in motorcycling.  Not unlike many Geese, the Street Triple and/or the Daytona come together in a way that is beyond paper numbers - the FI is spot on, the handling is sublime, it is incredibly rideable in virtually any situation you place the engine.  You wanna commute?  It's fine with that.  You wanna highway ride or weekend tour.  Totally okay.  You want backroad bonkers.  Oh yeah.  All the while it has mostly done this without even modern riding aids like traction control, abs brakes, etc.  I don't think I respected any motorcycle more than I did that little Street Triple I owned.  So many times I got off the thing and just looked at saying wow, you are one ugly piece of amazing machinery.   

 :1:  BTW- I don't think all biking journos are wankers. Let's stop and remember Kevin Ashe.  I loved his work and get the feeling that he was an honest, passionate, experienced rider. There is more to this than merely "my opinion is this, therefore it cannot be assailed". These are mechanical objects. There should be some objective ways of rating and comparing them. That is the challenged posed to the MC journalist community. I think MC Consumer news tried very, very hard to be objective- while still adding some personal opinions.

I have great respect for the modern Triumph. They seem to be killing it in the market based on the good old fashioned principle of making a great product at the right price. Good on them.

[Yeahoo Whoyah]

f MVA went out and won at the TT or MotoGP then they would be able to reverse their fortunes, but I don't see that happening

Then again, winning races doesn't seem to always equal large number of retail sales.  I'm thinking Aprila, as far as visual sightings on the roads around here, about a rare as MV Augusta.

[Kentktk]

It's an unfortunate reality that if you want to sell bikes, and stick around, you have to pander to the lowest common denominator while still making a decent product.

If you decide to make the best product you possibly can, without regards to cost or producibility, you go tits up. Examples of this being Lancia and Saab. They cared about making excellent vehicles, but ultimately they failed to stick around (Lancia still exists, but in name only) The big four are around today because they had the edge in reliability and the ability to pump out millions of bikes like the Honda Dream

Guzzi is following the economies of scale to stay in business with the v7, while Ducati rides on the coat tails of fame set by the 916. MV Agusta remains a mostly unknown name in motorcycling and their bikes don't offer anything special to make them desirable over the cheaper alternatives. I think if MVA went out and won at the TT or MotoGP then they would be able to reverse their fortunes, but I don't see that happening.

BTW, They are winning in WSS and could win the Championship this year as they were second last year.
http://www.crash.net/wss

[Kentktk]

Is this really a surprise to anyone?  At one of their recent press launches they even spent time trying to justify the bikes' HIGH pricetags by actually providing a presentation to try and show why they - as opposed to other European and especially Japanese makers - should be considered a "super premium" brand.  Their words.  Yet, only now has MV actually focused on making refined and street rideable bikes.  Whether it's their always ridiculed FI response, their odd ergos, or their track focus, they've just not been making bikes that serve as much beyond eye candy and panache. 

There pricing is in line with Ducati these days. The Jap Sportbikes are just about as expensive and look like crap. The BMW S1000rr is the best value for all you get, but it`s not exactly great looking either. The FI on my '14 F4 is great.

[bpreynolds]

There pricing is in line with Ducati these days. The Jap Sportbikes are just about as expensive and look like crap. The BMW S1000rr is the best value for all you get, but it`s not exactly great looking either. The FI on my '14 F4 is great.

Kent, I do think the bikes are gorgeous and should obviously be prized by those who can afford to have one in the garage.  And listen - no don't, nobody should really listen to me.    Last week my board bud on here here, Ralph Glorioso, pointed out that I'm the kinda guy who would slag a Ferrari for its poor mpg. 

[fatbob]

HE SHOOTS, HE SCORES!  IT'S A KILL SHOT! 


Almost bought an F4RR , beautiful bike.  Much sexier than the Street or Speed Triple.

Triumph must be doing something right, they ain't bankrupt!

[Huzo]

Like I said, they're right if YOU think they are. Harley aren't broke either but they haven't won a WSBK or Moto GP race for a fair while, but would that matter if you were doing Route 66 with your mates on one ?When you're having a cappuccino on the top of the Stelvio Pass or Nordkapp with your Norge, do you care how many valves per cylinders it has ? Bugger me, if you on the road of bones on an old MZ with a Russian comrade eating boiled Black Bear, you'd call yourself blessed. The problem is not when someone takes the time to try to tell you that one bike is "better" than another, the mistake is when you enter the argument with them.

[lucky phil]

 Oh , Phil , no one is paying YOU for your opinions . Pretty sure Egan , Henning , Canet , et al know way more about motorbikes than you .

 
 Dusty

That's actually true, I get paid for my knowledge not my opinions.
Ciao

[oldbike54]

That's actually true, I get paid for my knowledge not my opinions.
Ciao

 Yeah , and surely overpaid at that .

  Dusty

[lucydad]

Did someone mention Ferrari?

On my bicycle ride this afternoon, across the subdivision:  no kidding:  two brand new Ferraris, with dealer plates.  One black, and one white.  I wanted to stop and drool but since people were out front of the house I refrained.  Wondering if our local Ferrari dealer actually lives in the neighborhood?  If so, I need to make friends....  not sure of the model, but they looked identical, and had the big engines under the rear deck under glass... V12?

MVA, I read somewhere, designed their triple exhausts to sound like a Ferrari.  I believe it.  Given that, I love the scream of my 675 Triple Triumph when it winds up.  Then again, nothing ever beat the Kawasaki Mach III two-stroke triple for sound, and blue clouds...

Time for bed.

[Huzo]

Keep your hands above the covers lucydad !

[canuguzzi]

Then again, winning races doesn't seem to always equal large number of retail sales.  I'm thinking Aprila, as far as visual sightings on the roads around here, about a rare as MV Augusta.

El Dorado Hills?

You'd have seen a spanking new Veloce if Elk Grove didn't say "21 and a half and not a penny less" whereupon I said "lets see how that comes out in six months".

That was 2 months ago.

The Norge runs to El Dorado Hills once a month.

[Dogwalker]

Triumph must be doing something right, they ain't bankrupt!

Triumph had been, for twenty years, the pet project of a billionaire that continued to finance its losses.
The bike that made it profitable (a thing thathappened only few years ago) had not been the Speed Triple, The Street triple, or the Daytona. It had been the Bonneville.

[Kev m]

Wasn't it the Monster that really grew Ducati's sales?

[Dogwalker]

Sure. But in its case, the customers saw the 916 winning on sunday, and came out of the dealer riding a Monster on monday.

[Kev m]

Sure. But in its case, the customers saw the 916 winning on sunday, and came out of the dealer riding a Monster on monday.

I've heard this win on Sunday sell on Monday thing a bit in my life, but I don't buy it. The vast majority of motorcyclists I know don't watch racing.

Now I'm SURE a much higher percentage of MV and Ducati owners do.

But again, I bet if you polled owners of Bonnies, Monsters, Scramblers, etc. you'd find they don't.

In those cases Ducati and Triumph plugged into something else that sells even better. It's a combination of style, price, and performance with a vague notion of some sort of brand image/heritage.

It's what sells Harleys too (especially the 50-60,000 Sportsters they sell each year). It's what's selling the V7s.

[segesta]

And reliability, or reputation for it, helps too. The best thing that ever happened to Ferrari was the introduction of the Acura NSX.
Although from what I can tell, Japanese bikes are neither as bulletproof, and Italian and American bikes aren't as brittle, as legend states.

[canuguzzi]

Pit someone on  Honda and they just put in gas, maybe some oil. That how a lot of them are treated.

Put someone on a Guzzi, maintence like clockwork. It's probably more due to maintenance than anything else.

The best stuff not maintained properly doesn't last very long or run very well.