1998 California fuel pump woes

[OldBMWMaster]

A friend of mine is moving and had his 1998 California with a Hannigan sidecar up for sale. I bought it.

It quit on the way home after I hit a pothole and I fiddled with switches until it came to life. Specifically, I had the kill switch in the "kill" position. When I got home, I turned the bike off and it would not show any current getting to it. No lights would come on. The battery has been relocated to between the sidecar and the bike and the resultant maze of wires is now in the hole where the original battery sat. I found a wire that led to the fuel pump relay was loose at the wire nut and tightened it. Everything except the turn signals worked; so I bought a new flasher and it had no effect...still no turn signals. But everything else worked.

This morning I turned the key and everything lit up, but there was no noise from the fuel pump. Jiggling and checking the suspect wires had no effect. I went to NAPA and bought a new relay...still noting from the fuel pump.

Any help/hints would be appreciated. I have wrenched on BMWs for 50 years, but Guzzis are foreign to me.

Thanks.

If you don't feel like typing out a long response, feel free to call me on my cell

910-262-2843

[OldBMWMaster]

Thanks.

Dusty just called me and I think we have a start on the problem.  I am not going to do much this week; I have to finish the semester and grade final exams.  Next week will be all about the Guzzi.

[oldbike54]

Thanks.

Dusty just called me and I think we have a start on the problem.  I am not going to do much this week; I have to finish the semester and grade final exams.  Next week will be all about the Guzzi.

 Let it be said , I merely pointed out where the fuel pump is located , and that Kiwi Roy is our wiring guru 

 Dusty

[Chuck in Indiana]

wire nut

Uh oh.

[fotoguzzi]

The fuel pump wiring is a sub harness that plugs into mail loom in the fuse block area, see if it came unplugged there? Or just test for current at the pump ?

[fotoguzzi]

Original Siemens relays have a bad rep.. If still original I'd replace them all with new from dpguzzi.com

[rodekyll]

Uh oh.

+1

wire nuts.   

I'd start there.

[Tom]

Good time to check all your connections.  Main ground wire from battery.

[OldBMWMaster]

Good time to check all your connections.  Main ground wire from battery.

I agree. as soon as I find the problem, everything will be re-done.  I have never seen such a mess.  For your entertainment, I will post some pics later.

[rodekyll]

I don't know which injection you've got, but sometimes the harness is available from Pinwalls or other suspect as a complete assembly.  It might be to your advantage to buy a complete harness and simply replace your mess with fresh wires.  I pick them up for $80 or less when I need them, and when I see them under $50 I buy them just because.  I just took delivery of a complete, unmolested Jackal harness for $30. 

[OldBMWMaster]

I have a friend who is an electrical engineer with Sturdy Controls [they make all the speed governors for trucks and buses], she came to dinner last night and was more appalled than me at the rats nest of wiring she saw.  She and I are going to tear into the bike and rewire everything next week.  I will post pics as we do it so others might gain some knowledge.  BTW, she is young and hot.  It is OK, she is also a rider and my wife's friend.

[normzone]

" For your entertainment, I will post some pics later."

Ah, yes, talk about cheap thrills...

" BTW, she is young and hot.  It is OK, she is also a rider and my wife's friend."

Of course, the pics deliverable must also apply in this area as well 

[Kiwi_Roy]

It's a huge task to replace all the wiring I would advise against trying that.
Try to identify which one of these schematics applies to your bike, that will help us help you.
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1996_Sport_1100i.gif
OR
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1998_EV.gif
I assume you have the large P8 pizza box ECU (about 9" square with a long connector)
Or is it a finned aluminum box about 5" square with a squarish looking connector in the middle?

Notice on both schematics how the wiring around the ECU, it's two relays, ignition coils, injectors and pump is almost a separate part of the bike, there's only a couple of wires going to and fro from the rest one of those is just the tach signal. this wiring is very robust and I doubt the PO would have changed anything there.
The wire coming in to feed the coil of the ECU relay is the critical one, it must be alive for the bike to go. Same applies to the two fuses one for each relay must be ok.
If all the above are ok the bike will run.

Since it was running before you hit the bump I suspect you just lost power to one of the fuses or lost the signal to the ECU relay.

Make sure there's power on the fuses and it's getting to the 30 contact of the two relays
Put your meter in the ECU relay socket 85 to 86 and make sure you get 12 Volts with the key and kill switch On. Note some bikes also have the side-stand and neutral switches in this circuit.

When you turn the key On (with kill switch On) the ECU relay gets power to the 85 & 86 terminals which causes the relay to close feeding power to the ECU
The ECU wakes up and sends a pulse to the Power relay starting the pump to prime the system (runs about 5 seconds for the P8 ECU, 2 seconds for the 15M)
Until you hear the pump run for a couple of seconds the bike is not ready to run.

[OldBMWMaster]

Thanks Kiwi-Roy.  That is where we will start on Monday.   I am finishing up final exams and my engineering friend is spending the weekend with her NASCAR buddy.

And yes, mine is the large ECU.  You will love to hear that it is being held in place by a large white zip tie.  I have a lot of sorting to do.

[twhitaker]

You will love to hear that it is being held in place by a large white zip tie.

 

Mine is being held in with a rubber band made from an inner tube.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Just be aware that the wiring may not be as shown on the diagram, sometimes the fuses are fed through the ignition switch but at any rate they should all be alive with the key On.
If the fuses are the pointy ones they may be losing contact there.

[OldBMWMaster]

On Sunday, I went out and turned the key on...nothing.  I pulled some of the nest of wires that are in the space formerly occupied by the battery and found a ground wire worn to the point that a slight pull and it broke.  I did a quick fix with a butt connector and I now have fire when I turn on the ignition; but still no power to the fuel pump.  My engineer friend is coming over after work tonight..

[Kiwi_Roy]

Have Fire could mean anything

Be a bit more specific.

[guzzisteve]

Maybe you don't need a lighter to lite a smoke or the bike has spark.

[OldBMWMaster]

Maybe you don't need a lighter to lite a smoke or the bike has spark.

Once I repaired the ground wire, I had two red indicators come on on the dash.  Still no fire to the fuel pump.

[OldBMWMaster]

My electrical engineer came over last night to do a repair and quickly determined that the person who created this mess was truly an idiot.  She is making me a new harness at her work.  Here are some pics of the rats nest that was my wiring.  And some pics of the hot chick/engineer ripping it all out.

[pat80flh]

Wire nuts and scotch-locs, yep that is a mess.

[BigDave in PA]

Wow, she's hot. Get her to check your shorts.

[John A]

You might want to re use those scotch locks and wire nuts to keep her busy for a while..........

[fubar guzzi]

STOP rite there,-------double bourbon+beer ,maybe it was double beer+bourban,anyway it works for me

[oldbike54]

 So this was all just a plot to get our healthy young lass to show up . Very clever 

 Dusty

[fotoguzzi]

 
I see you'll be having a lot of electrical problems with that EV..

[OldBMWMaster]

So this was all just a plot to get our healthy young lass to show up . Very clever 

 Dusty

I don't know why, but young women love me.  My wife is younger than my daughter.  The wiring guru is my girlfriend. [pic is wife and wiring guru]  We all get along well and life is good.  Well except for this damned Guzzi wiring nightmare.  The wiring guru and I are going down to Myrtle Beach Bike Week Saturday to observe the idiots on two wheels with no helmets.

[oldbike54]

 OK , we are gonna need a program to keep up here 

 Dusty

[twhitaker]

So you have a wife AND a girlfriend. Indeed