Welding . flux core or Mig ?

[Rough Edge racing]

I was having problems seeing the puddle too.  I got a variable-dimming helmet (9-13, whatever that means)  I keep it down at 9 and I can see well enough when it autodarkens.  At higher values I can't see anything.

  A lot of guys use a bright light to help see the welding puddle...Sometimes mounted on the helmet... You may need to get it positioned just so to avoid the light causing problems with an auto darkening helmet...

[charlie b]

Speaking of which, for my next waste of money upgrade, I was thinking about getting an automatic darkening shield. Not being able to see the initial strike location is a pain.
Do those help?
 

Well worth it.  I got one from HF and it works just fine.  Tons better than 'flipping' the helmet.

Like above, get a good light on the surface so you can see more than just the arc :)

[Triple Jim]

Thanks for that, Jim. Close vision is no problem. I have bifocal implants in both eyes, and I'm 20/15 at 12 inches or so.

I just put on my trifocals and checked... my eyes are about 8" from the weld.

[Doppelgaenger]

For technique and tips check out weldingtipsandtrick s on youtube, Jodi/Jody, have made a bunch of good videos to give you an idea on how to weld.
Might not be as good as a welding course, but it will get you started. I'm sure there a bunch of other guys making welding videos, but I like Jody's style of showing the actual puddle as he's moving along with the welds. Gives you a better idea of handcontrol/motions.

^^^^ THIS ^^^^

I learned to weld by watching him and just farting around with a welder.

I first learned on a POS harbor freight welder and then went to the thermalarc 181i 3-in-1 welder that could do stick tig and mig. A very capable little machine, BUT... If you want to learn TIG I strongly suggest that you NOT go with that welder as it doesn't have a pedal and it's scratch start which almost invariably destroys the tip of your tungsten as it sticks to the project and breaks off. It's a great little mig and flux core welder though. I did a lot of field work running it off a generator and starting grass fires....

What you buy doesn't matter since pretty much all MIG welders can also do flux core. But for welder size I'll echo what others have said, you have to buy something that is going to be big enough to handle the kinds of projects you eventually intend to work on. You can't make a small rig weld big things, but you can make a big rig weld small things and you're best off spending the money now instead of spending more later when you realize what you have can't hack it.

I would start with flux core until you get the hang of the proper combination of wire feed speeds, amps and travel speed. Then move to gas. The first welds are invariably hideous and you're better off not wasting gas on that. You can make some very nice welds with flux core and it's especially handy when working outside in the wind on big projects. It's really fun when a blob of molten slag jumps off the project and goes down the back of your shirt!

If you want to have fun welding, by all means buy a TIG setup. It's the most challenging to learn, but also the most rewarding.

Oh and auto-darkening is the only way to go. I would always lose my spot when I used a flip down helmet.

[oldbike54]

 Call me a Luddite , but stick welding is still great . No issues with wire feeds getting jammed up , much easier to tailor for a given application , rod choices are almost infinite , and there is something cool about watching the rod as it joins the base metals together .

 Dusty

[Perazzimx14]

I was having problems seeing the puddle too.  I got a variable-dimming helmet (9-13, whatever that means)  I keep it down at 9 and I can see well enough when it autodarkens.  At higher values I can't see anything.

The higher the number the darker the shade and more protection to your eyes. #9 is the lowest (least amount of shading) you should and still offer some level of protection to you eyes. Career welders when they have to rely on using #9 lenses are definately in the end stages of their welding career.

[Rough Edge racing]

Well worth it.  I got one from HF and it works just fine.  Tons better than 'flipping' the helmet.

Like above, get a good light on the surface so you can see more than just the arc :)

 I had a  a cheap auto darkening helmet for a few years.... I gave in and bought a 175 buck Jackson auto helmet...The difference is well worth the money for me...I do a lot of bike fabrication and the Jackson has a better field a vision and clarity while welding...
  Right now I'm considering a TIG, looking at Hobart smaller AC/DC 240 volt machines....About $1200...

[Triple Jim]

Not sure which Jackson you mean, but definitely look at the Jackson Nexgen.  It does a lot of useful stuff and is really good about not darkening for things like fluorescent lights, but always darkening when you need it to.

[tcunnien]

Been teaching welding at the high school level for the past 36 years. This by no means makes me an expert just someone who has been around welding for awhile. Each process has its advantages and disadvantages. Mig is a process that will give you a pretty weld but if the settings are not correct it will look great but may not have any penetration. This process is used in fabrication inside where air movement can be controlled.  Flux core is designed for continuous welding in an outside environment. Think building a skyscraper, the welds are done with with flux core at a quicker rate than with stick. You are not loosing time switching out rods. Tig welding while being more versatile than some of the other processes requires more skill and equipment. If you want to weld aluminum you will need a different shielding gas than if you are welding mild steel, along with with different filler rods depending what you are welding. This also holds true for mig, flux core and stick. The filler rod or wire or stick must match what you are trying to weld. No one process makes a stronger weld. If any weld is done properly the weld should be stronger than the base metal around it. As for the welding helmets the auto darkening style can make starting the arc easier simply due the fact that you can see where everything is right up to striking the arc. It should be noted that some people are sensitive to the split second of arc flash that gets through before the shield goes dark. Most of my students wear the auto darkening but every so often one of them just can't get used to them and has to use a regular helmet.  The helmets that adjust the darkness, shade 9-13 allow you to have a shield for higher amperage welding. With 9 being the lightest and 13 being the darkest. Think more amps equals a brighter arc therefore a darker shield is needed. Hope this helps. I would say this is my two cents but with inflation it really is only worth one cent.

[Rough Edge racing]

Not sure which Jackson you mean, but definitely look at the Jackson Nexgen.  It does a lot of useful stuff and is really good about not darkening for things like fluorescent lights, but always darkening when you need it to.

 I have the Jackson Balder.....It doesn't darken when grinding and is good for Mig and Tig...

[arveno]

Been teaching welding at the high school level for the past 36 years. This by no means makes me an expert just someone who has been around welding for awhile. Each process has its advantages and disadvantages. Mig is a process that will give you a pretty weld but if the settings are not correct it will look great but may not have any penetration. This process is used in fabrication inside where air movement can be controlled.  Flux core is designed for continuous welding in an outside environment. Think building a skyscraper, the welds are done with with flux core at a quicker rate than with stick. You are not loosing time switching out rods. Tig welding while being more versatile than some of the other processes requires more skill and equipment. If you want to weld aluminum you will need a different shielding gas than if you are welding mild steel, along with with different filler rods depending what you are welding. This also holds true for mig, flux core and stick. The filler rod or wire or stick must match what you are trying to weld. No one process makes a stronger weld. If any weld is done properly the weld should be stronger than the base metal around it. As for the welding helmets the auto darkening style can make starting the arc easier simply due the fact that you can see where everything is right up to striking the arc. It should be noted that some people are sensitive to the split second of arc flash that gets through before the shield goes dark. Most of my students wear the auto darkening but every so often one of them just can't get used to them and has to use a regular helmet.  The helmets that adjust the darkness, shade 9-13 allow you to have a shield for higher amperage welding. With 9 being the lightest and 13 being the darkest. Think more amps equals a brighter arc therefore a darker shield is needed. Hope this helps. I would say this is my two cents but with inflation it really is only worth one cent.

Thank you for your one Cent .

[pete mcgee]

I will add another cent to tcunniens post.
Auto helmets are great IF you buy a quality one, one that darken in 1/25000th of a second or quicker.
Might/flux core would be my pick just because of its versitility and relative ease of use.
Welding is an interesting hobby, lots to learn, preparation, technique, metallurgy,safety.
Practice is the secret.
If you go flux core, you will need breathing protection, 3m make suitable disposable welding masks, use them.
Do a welding course, watch weldingtipsandtrick s.
A metal working course is also useful to bend up and manufacture things to weld.
Do your home work ask questions and get into it.
Enjoy.

[tiger_one]

I have a Miller SyncroWave 180 SD, absolutely love it.  I did gas before and stick, so it was quick to learn.  I demoed several at the dealer during a demo show.  This was years ago, and I still use it from time to time.  Love the ability to do aluminum.

This box will also do stick, which I use a lot.

I wear reading glasses when I weld.  Had a cheap HF auto helmet but it went south as it is now too slow to darken.  I will take the advice from the experts here and get a Jackson.

[Triple Jim]

The trick for slow-to-darken lenses is to briefly close your eyes just as you start the arc.  Not ideal, of course, but better than seeing a brief flash.

[Muzz]

Good thread here.

I have had both gas and arc (180 amp continuous rated) for about 30 years. Both have their uses. The stick is great on thicker steel but on thin stuff, well, not so good.

I recently purchased a second hand but barely used 170 amp Mig/Tig/Arc BOC unit (rebranded Kempi) inverter unit. Have yet to use the Tig and Arc but the control with the stick is superb with the inverter. Hot start and then it backs off. Although it came with all the torches I will need to get a throw away bottle of Argon and a mini regulator for the Tig and an adaptor for the CO2 bottle that it came with.

As said previously, the Tig and Mig have their uses. However, as I am only doing steel of at least 1.5 to 2mm thick at this stage, I am happy with the stick as the control on this unit is superb.

[rodekyll]

I don't know what you ended up buying, but I can tell you that once you've got a welder everything needs a burn.  I spent $400 for mine in January, and at $1.00/bead it's already paid for itself.  I just worked over the smoke house hinges, in a few seconds welding in place hardware that would have taken an hour or more to drill, tap, and screw.  It's one thing after another.

[Triple Jim]

And if you have a 3" x 1mm thick cut off disk in a die grinder (for example), welds are no more permanent than nuts and bolts.

[Muzz]

And if you have a 3" x 1mm thick cut off disk in a die grinder (for example), welds are no more permanent than nuts and bolts.

That bit I find interesting Jim. First saw that setup when I worked with American guy. I had to specially buy in those 3" discs for him. It was a nice wee setup though. However, our engineers tended to use the 5" ones. Cutting speed was hugely superior to the 100mm and even the 115mm ones. (4" and 4.1/2") Price of the discs were about the same, speed and longevity way better.

[Rough Edge racing]

 Friday I bought a Lincoln Square Wave  200 from the local welding supply. It AC/DC Tig and stick...it was 1700 bucks with an argon tank ,some consumables and tax...
 I watched videos on U tube and have been practicing on scrap steel...It's more difficult than Mig and sort of artistic...but not very different from gas welding...

[Triple Jim]

That bit I find interesting Jim. First saw that setup when I worked with American guy. I had to specially buy in those 3" discs for him. It was a nice wee setup though. However, our engineers tended to use the 5" ones. Cutting speed was hugely superior to the 100mm and even the 115mm ones. (4" and 4.1/2") Price of the discs were about the same, speed and longevity way better.

I also use the larger ones in an angle grinder when necessary, and get decent life out of those.  Are you saying the  5" ones cut the fastest?  I do know that the faster you can run any of them, up to the maximum on the label, the better they work and the longer they last, and the 5" size has the advantage when it comes to surface speed, at least until they wear down to 4-1/2".   

Friday I bought a Lincoln Square Wave  200 from the local welding supply. It AC/DC Tig and stick...it was 1700 bucks with an argon tank ,some consumables and tax...
 I watched videos on U tube and have been practicing on scrap steel...It's more difficult than Mig and sort of artistic...but not very different from gas welding...

I'm sure that the more you use TIG, the more you'll like it.  I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees the similarity to oxy-acetylene.   

[Rough Edge racing]

I'm sure that the more you use TIG, the more you'll like it.  I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees the similarity to oxy-acetylene.   

  It's a learning curve and the hardest part for me is maintaining a close distance to the work and not getting the tungsten electrode into the puddle...You know, then it's contaminated and need to grind a new point on it... 

[Triple Jim]

You probably know, but some guys use the ceramic cup to maintain the distance, sometimes known as "walking the cup".

[rodekyll]

If you're real familiar with the 4.5" grinding wheels on those little angle grinders, be very careful going to a 5" wheel.  That blade is spinning closer to your hand than it used to . . .

I buy the 5's when I can find them, but they're not real popular around here.  I have one grinder that is slightly longer than a standard Makita and it spins a 5" pretty good.  I don't put them on my short ones though.  I never know who might pick it up and have their hand in the wrong place.

I find flapper disks undo a lot of my welding damage.  Right now I buy a pound of flappers per spool of wire.  As I get better I hope the ratio improves.

[charlie b]

I find flapper disks undo a lot of my welding damage.  Right now I buy a pound of flappers per spool of wire.  As I get better I hope the ratio improves.

ROFLMAO  Someday I'll get better too  :)

[Muzz]

I also use the larger ones in an angle grinder when necessary, and get decent life out of those.  Are you saying the  5" ones cut the fastest?  I do know that the faster you can run any of them, up to the maximum on the label, the better they work and the longer they last, and the 5" size has the advantage when it comes to surface speed, at least until they wear down to 4-1/2".   

Correct. Surface speed. The three sizes all use basically the same spindle speed; the disk material from 5" to 4.1/2" is basically free, or at least only a few cents.

When I was working in the retail side of an engineering firm there was a guy who had a 4" grinder I sold disks to. I advised him that when it blew to get a 5" for the reasons mentioned. Bumped in to him a couple of years later when I was up there on holiday and he mentioned that he had done precisely that, and he could not believe the difference in performance and cost effectiveness.

[Triple Jim]

I run my 3" disks on an air die grinder that spins pretty darned fast, so maybe that's why they cut fast and last a while. 

[Rough Edge racing]

You probably know, but some guys use the ceramic cup to maintain the distance, sometimes known as "walking the cup".

 So the electrode is flush with the cup? Does that hide the puddle or cause any other problems?

[Triple Jim]

Not flush, you hold the torch so the tungsten is an an angle, not 90 degrees to the work.  Do a search for "walking the cup" and you'll come up with a lot of information and videos about it.

[Doppelgaenger]

So the electrode is flush with the cup? Does that hide the puddle or cause any other problems?

You prop the cup on the work piece or some other kind of aid to give yourself a fulcrum, once you have the angle right, all you do is move the torch back and forth and the tungsten will never touch the puddle (in theory).

Something I learned from Jody and weldingtipsandtrick s is to always use a gas lens diffuser instead of just a regular tip. It shields way better and that way you can work with your tungsten more exposed without it burning up. Handy if you're trying to get into a tight corner, or if your torch plain sucks like mine did.

If you're cheap or in a pinch I've heard of some people cutting some green scotchbrite to the diameter of the cup, putting it in the cup and then shoving the tungsten thru it. Voila, DIY diffuser.

[Rough Edge racing]

 Angle? At the welding supply shop I got some tips from a very experienced welder. Several U tube videos by welding "celebrities" also stressed the less angle is better........He said several times to only angle the torch enough to see the puddle. ... 90 percent of my welding is tubing joints exhaust pipes, small brackets , stop and go welds and out of position work..
 At any rate, it would be simple to rig a guide on the torch to keep a proper distance from the work...But it might be best for me to take the time to learn the hard way first ...
  EDIT, I watched a few "walking the cup" videos... it appears to be technique used in situations such as filet welding on large pipes for example..