V7 special ii - fitting GiPro gear indicator

[chrisk]

Hi, I'm fitting a gear indicator and need to know where the Speed Sensor is, which is supposed to be on the gearbox and have 3 wires, anyone who where it is, or have a manual  that points to It? An alternative position for it is the front or rear wheel, apparantly.

I also need to know where the Crankshaft Sensor (pickup coil) is.



Any help,appreciated. Pics of the bits and instructions below.

[pete roper]

No, there are two speed sensors, they are by the discs, the ABS rings and sensors on both wheels are the 'Speed Sensors'. With an ABS and TC system a simplistic device like this isn't going to work if I am understanding how it is designed to. Primitive and stupid. More snake oil.

Why do you need such a useless thing anyway? Spend the money on suspension and brakes!

Pete

[redrider]

I agree Pete. I get the question a lot in the MSF class. "How do I know what gear am I in?" My response is "It does not matter. If it herky-jerks, downshift and if you bounce off the rev limiter, upshift."

Just another useless farkle to distract the rider from looking at the path of travel and scanning for hazards, IMO. Become one with the motorcycle.

No offence intended towards the OP-Do what you want to your motorcycle.

[lucydad]

Actually I think gear indicators are pretty keen devices.  Love mine on the Triumph.  Helpful especially to determine if I am in 5 or 6 gear.  Useful for being sure the bike is in first and not second due to operator error.  Surely I am just not as smart and cool as some of you.  Most modern bikes have gear indicators.  I even use the visual ones on my Cannondale bicycle.  My favorite gauge on the STRX is the fuel tank level indicator.  It is very accurate.  See you guys later, I am off for a ride on the Triumph.

[oldlegs]

I'll hold my hands up and admit that sometimes I'm not sure if I'm in 5th or 6th or even go for "7th" but a quick look at the rev counter clears thing up. Steve.

[Old Jock]

I'm with Lucydad on this one

I think you guys can be a bit harsh at times the way you word things, why the rush to condemn, just because you don't need it.

I have a GiPro on my Ducati and it stops me selecting 7th and lets me know if I'm 5th and still have another gear to use should I choose. I like them very much, on a 5 speed I do not find it necessary on a 6 gear bike I do................. ..........however I am old forgetful and very very dimm

On the road sure by the book there is only one correct gear for the conditions and often I'm not in it, I'll often change up when in a relaxed mood or drop a cog and go for it a little when I feel more aggressive. The GiPro lets me know where I am in the box without having to count and I can relax or concentrate on other things.

I had the same argument with many many guys on the Ducati forum, none of them needed them either, then the Panigale came out with a gear indicator and I never heard one post against it.

It needs an RPM signal and a speed (wheel rotation or the like signal) and uses the ratio, should work most of the time but yeah if TC or ABS starts working then it might get a bit confused, but how often are they actually active, unless its the track.

Of course Pete if I am missing something then I'll always concede to somebody who actually knows these machines

Just Sayin

John

[Kev m]

Yeah, some of the responses are harsh.

That said, put me on the entirely unnecessary side of the game, and I'm a guy who likes gadgets for gadget's sake.

You see it boils down to this.

IF you're at the bottom of the gearbox then attempting to shift down will confirm you're already in 1st.

IF you're at the top of the box then attempting to shift up will just confirm you're already on top gear.

And if you're anywhere else it will shift, and if the shift doesn't produce what you want, then shift again.

I mean I don't consciously decide if I need to shift any of my gearcases based on comparing road speed to what gear I THINK I'm in. I decide to shift based on ENGINE SPEED.

[rss29]

I have a GiPro on my Duc and I love it. The digital tach is pretty much impossible to read and the gearing is really short, so I look at it and the shift light constantly. I was always looking for 7th gear until I got it. On that bike, fitting the indicator was really simple- all I had to do was plug it into the open diagnostic plug and calibrate. It gets the gear indication from the ECU and even works with the clutch pulled in at a stop. This fitment sounds a lot more fiddly, though. I guess it's comparing wheel speed to engine speed to come up with gear ranges.

[waxi]

Why do you need such a useless thing anyway? Spend the money on suspension and brakes!

Pete

I've read this quite a few times here on forum. What is all about? For me it just works...

[Jurgen]

Why criticise someone if all they want is an answer to a question?  I only saw one answer to the question, the rest were either criticism or agreement that it is a nice item to have, not an  answer to the question asked.  I guess my answer falls into the second category, also.  Jürgen 

[waxi]

Unfortunately I have no clue how to mount one of these. That was also the reason why I didn't buy one. However, I was interested in DS-Series model which can be plug-and-play connected via OBD. Anyone tested it with V7 II? I just don't want to cut any wires on a new bike...

[DonTom]

Hi, I'm fitting a gear indicator and need to know where the Speed Sensor is, which is supposed to be on the gearbox and have 3 wires, anyone who where it is, or have a manual  that points to It? An alternative position for it is the front or rear wheel, apparantly.

Strange how I see this question asked a lot in various MG forums  but never see it answered. I mainly see a lot of how we do not need a gear indicator. I will say I agree, as I do not even need a single motorcycle, yet I own six. If I got rid of everything I don't need, that would be more than 99% of the stuff that I own at this time.

So,  we don't need a gear indicator. I agree!  But I want one, just for the simple reason that they do exist.

I am wondering if you ever got yours  working. I recently purchased a Gi-Pro as well, but I cannot test it out because of the deep snow on my driveway. I know I will get it working one way or the other.

It is detecting engine speed just fine as I started the bike in the garage and the "L" is now blinking FAST. For that, I connected a 33K ohm resister in series with the green lead at the low side of the primary on the  right ignition coil. I have the resistor mounted right at the coil, as I am using that as a "fuse" that is impossible to blow but will limit the current to a safe amount if there's ever a short on that wire after the resistor. I have the resistor itself inside of heat shrink tubing.

Since I have the bike on the sidestand with no room to move it, I cannot check how the connection to the front wheel speed sensor works. But I will make it work even if it doesn't, as the info. required has to be there in one way or another.   For now, I tapped into BOTH sensor wires and brought them to under the seat, where I can experiment as soon as I can get the bike out of the garage. After I determine how it works for the ABS, I will make it work for the gear indicator, even if I must design a small circuit to make it work for the gear indicator.

I have one advantage is that I retired from being in the electronics field all of my life.

But if you (or anybody else)  already got yours working to detect wheel speed, I will probably do whatever you did to save me the hassle and get mine working even before I take it out of the garage (except for the "learning" process that requires the bike to be in all six gears for a few seconds).

When I get mine working, I will post here exactly what I did, for the many others who do not "need" but want a gear indicator on their MG.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[Mr Pootle]

I'll not bother to retrofit one, but a gear indicator was one of the things I'd have liked on my V7ll, along with a centre stand. I've never had a bike that's had one, but I've never had one with more than four gears before. Sometimes, with my thick boots and my full face helmet on the difference between 5th and 6th is a bit too subtle.

[gerryp]

Hi, I'm fitting a gear indicator and need to know where the Speed Sensor is, which is supposed to be on the gearbox and have 3 wires, anyone who where it is, or have a manual  that points to It? An alternative position for it is the front or rear wheel, apparantly.

I also need to know where the Crankshaft Sensor (pickup coil) is.



Any help,appreciated. Pics of the bits and instructions below.

Greetings,

Just wondering how this worked out for you as I'm considering the same install.

Any major/minor issues.

[DonTom]

Greetings,

Just wondering how this worked out for you as I'm considering the same install.

Any major/minor issues.

Sorry for the late reply! But I have been very busy and a very long snowy winter reduced the riding.

But I did get the job done and it works perfectly, so I will explain what I did and this should save you a lot of time.

I was able to do it without removing the fuel tank!  The previous message of mine explains how I got the engine speed to work for the green wire to the indicator.

The wheel speed (gear indicator white wire) was a little more difficult to deal with. But I have photos included here to make the job easier.

First step is to remove all your wires on the battery negative post and make sure the negative battery post cannot contact anything metal.

The best way to deal with the wheel speed wire (white) is to cut right into the harness at the ECM and find the gray wire with the white stripe. This is a direct shot between the plug of the ABS module and the ECM and there is no other simple way to get to this wire in my 2016 Stelvio. For this wire, you must work in front of the LEFT cylinder (note I already had my engine speed connection on the right side, but you  use the low side of the left ignition coil if you wish for the engine speed (orange/green on left side ignition coil).

The first photo below is for the engine speed (yellow wire to gear indicator, I used a resistor in series as mentioned in a Previous mentioned in this thread, which is under some heat shrink tubing).

The next photo is for the wheel speed. Notice my added yellow wire. That yellow wire goes from the gray wire  with the white stripe (the white  stripe is hard to see, so look very carefully with a magnifier in good light if necessary) that is inside the harness.   Very carefully cut the tape around the harness to find it. The red and blue wires are for other items I added and are NOT related to the gear indicator. That yellow wire goes to the white wire for the gear indicator. I would have used white instead of yellow for that, but I could not find any white wire so I used yellow. But it goes to the white wire of the gear indicator.

Behind the blue/red  and yellow wires,  mounted by the three Allen screws (as shown),  is the bike's ECM. You only have to dig into the front connector to find the wire. I dug into both sides trying to find that wire as I could not be sure which  connector of the ECU would contain the necessary gray wire with the white stripe.

It was very easy to calibrate when I got it working. I got that job done in a half block of riding by just letting the engine lug in 4th, 5th & 6th gear and then I only tested it and it works perfectly.

See photos below:

Engine speed (green gear indicator wire) connection (Blue wire that goes up the frame from the European connector I added to the low side of the right side ignition coil):



Wheel speed connection (white gear indicator wire to my own yellow wire at harness):



In above, disregard the red and blue wires I added. Those wires are for other things unrelated to the gear indicator. It's the yellow wire that goes between the gray wire with the white stripe inside the harness to the white wire of the gear indicator (for the wheel speed info.).

-Don-  Reno, NV

[DonTom]

No, there are two speed sensors, they are by the discs, the ABS rings and sensors on both wheels are the 'Speed Sensors'. With an ABS and TC system a simplistic device like this isn't going to work if I am understanding how it is designed to. Primitive and stupid. More snake oil.

I know this is an old message, but if a bike has a way to detect engine speed and wheel speed electronically, there has to be a way for the gear indicator to  work.

For an example, since my 2016  Stelvio has an electronic speedometer and tach it means a gear indicator can be made to work as the gear indicator needs only this same info.

However, some people might not want to cut into the ECM cable as I did to get compatible wheel speed info. for the gear indicator. The signal direct from the wheel sensors from the magnetoresistive sensor is NOT compatible  with the gear indicator (wrong waveshape) , but the ABS module converts it to a compatible signal for both the ABS as well as for the speedometer before it goes to the ECM. The gear indicator wants to see a 5 volt squarewave and that is what this signal between the ABS module and ECM usually is.

I don't see the design as "Primitive and stupid". It works well, IMO. I just think it would have been nice if MG would at least add the wire for the wheel speed  so we do not have to cut open the harness to get to it.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[gerryp]

Sorry for the late reply! But I have been very busy and a very long snowy winter reduced the riding.

But I did get the job done and it works perfectly, so I will explain what I did and this should save you a lot of time.

I was able to do it without removing the fuel tank!  The previous message of mine explains how I got the engine speed to work for the green wire to the indicator.


-Don-  Reno, NV

Don, 

Thank you for the information and pictures.  I've printed off the instructions for the future but at present I'm not going to cut into the wiring harness as that is something I'm not comfortable doing.

Regards,

Gerry

[DonTom]

Don, 

Thank you for the information and pictures.  I've printed off the instructions for the future but at present I'm not going to cut into the wiring harness as that is something I'm not comfortable doing.

Regards,

Gerry

It's really not that difficult, the idea is to remove enough  (a couple of inches) of the stock black tape (must be cut into, unfortunately, as there seems to be no way to just unwrap it)   to expose all the wires in the harness, without harming any of the wires.

The front of the ECM connector uses something similar to electrical tape, but on the rear ECM connector it uses a cloth type tape, perhaps because of the more heat in the rear. But there is no need to touch the rear cable. Of the two connectors, the front is the easiest to deal with, so there is some good news. But the main idea is to get a couple of inches of the tape removed from  that front ECM connector without harming any of the wires inside.

Then find the gray wire with the white stripe and tap into it and connect it to the white wire of the Gipro gear indicator by any method you prefer. I cut the gray wire with the white stripe and stripped off about a half inch of the insulation of each and then added my yellow wire and soldered all three connections together. I used heat shrink tubing to cover these connections and then taped up the whole thing using tie wraps to help hold the tape on (for when it all ages). But you could simply use a small Posi-tap or something like that, without even cutting the gray wire with the white stripe. But then,  covering it all up could be a problem, that why I decided to just solder it all.

Then deal with the other wires for the Gipro, which are easier to deal with.

Cutting into the ECM harness is not that difficult, but you have to be very careful not to cut any wires in so doing.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[perolalars]

For what its worth! I have been searching for guide to install a GIPro x-type gear indicator on my MG V7 II Racer for some time and not finding anything... But I emailed http://www.bikersdiscountstore.co.uk/index.php and I got this back from them

 . #4 stands for the Instrument Panel Pinout from the wiring diagram for the V7 II Racer.
So if there is anyone else out there trying to mount this, hope this helps!

[Kiwi_Roy]

I had a gear indicator on the old flying brick I rode in NZ and loved it.
Being old and forgetful I sometimes sit at a light in the upper gears then have trouble getting away cleanly when the light goes green, the Griso really objects to pulling away in a high gear.
I know I don’t really NEED an indicator but I would LIKE one.

[DonTom]

I had a gear indicator on the old flying brick I rode in NZ and loved it.
Being old and forgetful I sometimes sit at a light in the upper gears then have trouble getting away cleanly when the light goes green, the Griso really objects to pulling away in a high gear.
I know I don�t really NEED an indicator but I would LIKE one.

The GiPro will not indicate anything when the bike is stopped or when the clutch is in. The Gipro needs to calculate engine speed versus wheel speed. When the wheel speed is zero, there is nothing to calculate, so it just shows a "-". 

The old fashioned type that uses a switch in the transmission is a much more useful gear indicator than is the GiPro, but the GiPro is still better than no gear indicator at all, IMO.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[FOG]

well, i'm very slow (because of my age i think) and because of buing the slowest of ALL guzzi's, a 2015 V7II special. Damm the exhaust pipes look like a towel holder..they are tiny in circumferance .And the injection mapping is horrible.
Buth the bike looks nice and handles fine.

I would like to be more vissible from space, so i would like to put a gear indicator on. And i need a tacho and speedo signal.

Somebody any experience?, i can only find a Stelvio attempt.
Regards Bert

[FOG]

I realy solved it by reading all of your comments
 i have a 4 wire(battery +, ground, rpm and speedo) 6 speed gear indicator from ali...30 euro.
I detached the 26 pin (tyco) super seal connector from the dash and used pin 17 and 18 for the rpm/speedsignal.
No cutting in to the harnes or wires.
Unclip the retaining tabs, pull out pin 17&18 and solder a thin (like telephone wire) wire on each of the and you can put them back in the connector.
The soldered wires stick out from under the rubber manchet/cover, hooked them op. Then you start your bike an as soon as the indicator get a(aboveidle) rpm signal it goes into L Learnigmode and passes trough the numbers 1-6...just shift accordingly (had my rear wheel from the ground) and it counts and memorizes the rpm/speedsignal ratio for every gear.

2 minor remarks...in daylight the indicator has no curb appeal and it only functons with rotating wheels and rpms above idle (for mine its 2100 rpm