What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .

[robdrobd]

2013 V7 Stone. I discovered a small puddle of oil underneath my bike yesterday. It appeared that the oil was on the bottom of the starter motor. After removing the starter motor I found a Y connector with oil all over it. I now have several questions:

1) Where is this oil coming from
2) Why is there oil in my airbox
3) Why does the hose in the picture seem to end at the airbox, but no hole appears in the airbox
4) My bike barely if ever starts, every day, every time then runs flawlessly when it finally fires. I'm 24 hours away from trading it in. I've heard AND read a lot of posts about people who are not happy with the fuel/oil systems on these bikes. Others love them to death. 5) How is this possible?

6) Depression from buyers remorse is setting in.

[oldbike54]

 Don't despair Rob , one of our small block gurus will be along shortly . This a common problem , although the fix eludes me at the moment .

 Dusty

[sib]

If you buy a motorcycle and don't make an effort to understand how it works, you have only yourself to blame when something goes wrong and you can't understand why.  Have you ever read the service manual or looked at the parts book?  The info you get from those sources will be more reliable than what you will get from forums like this one.  I can tell you that your oil leak is a very minor problem that is easily fixed.  If this "problem" induces buyer's remorse, then perhaps you'd be better off selling your bike and getting a Toyota.

[oldbike54]

 Edited so it is easier for the gurus to spot .

 Dusty

[oldbike54]

  Toyota doesn't build motorbikes , and the idea that Pete , Guzzisteve , or one of our other experts can't help with this is silly . Patience .

 Dusty

 Edit , yes reading the manual is a good idea .

[beetle]

The oil in the airbox is from blow-by. It's there because there is too much oil in the engine. You only need to fill it to about 75-80% full, otherwise it can get 'blown' into the air box. There are little spongy filters to soak up the oil, but they can only do so much.

As for the poor starting. It's the fuel map. You should consider getting the update to the latest factory map, or seek a custom map.

Don't despair, the V7 is a good bike. We can fix it for you. Despite what some say, there are many knowledgeable and helpful peeps on this site.

[robdrobd]

If you buy a motorcycle and don't make an effort to understand how it works, you have only yourself to blame when something goes wrong and you can't understand why.  Have you ever read the service manual or looked at the parts book?  The info you get from those sources will be more reliable than what you will get from forums like this one.  I can tell you that your oil leak is a very minor problem that is easily fixed.  If this "problem" induces buyer's remorse, then perhaps you'd be better off selling your bike and getting a Toyota.

I came here so someone would help me with my "minor" problem and tell me how to fix it.

[robdrobd]

The oil in the airbox is from blow-by. It's there because there is too much oil in the engine. You only need to fill it to about 75-80% full, otherwise it can get 'blown' into the air box. There are little spongy filters to soak up the oil, but they can only do so much.

As for the poor starting. It's the fuel map. You should consider getting the update to the latest factory map, or seek a custom map.

Don't despair, the V7 is a good bike. We can fix it for you. Despite what some say, there are many knowledgeable and helpful peeps on this site.

Beetle, thank you. I read that that might be the issue so I checked the oil. It was serviced at 600miles in Kentucky and the oil read 1/4 above the full line. I also read that I can buy cables to do diagnostic tests. WI'll those same cables re map with the right software?

[beetle]

Sure will. Get the GuzziDiag cables and software and I'll do you a solid by giving you one of my custom maps.

[robdrobd]

Sure will. Get the GuzziDiag cables and software and I'll do you a solid by giving you one of my custom maps.

1) Where can I get them?
2) Do they plug into that extra little cable hanging out behind my triple tree,  green 4 prong?

[Kev m]

2013 V7 Stone. I discovered a small puddle of oil underneath my bike yesterday. It appeared that the oil was on the bottom of the starter motor. After removing the starter motor I found a Y connector with oil all over it. I now have several questions:

1) Where is this oil coming from
2) Why is there oil in my airbox
3) Why does the hose in the picture seem to end at the airbox, but no hole appears in the airbox
4) My bike barely if ever starts, every day, every time then runs flawlessly when it finally fires. I'm 24 hours away from trading it in. I've heard AND read a lot of posts about people who are not happy with the fuel/oil systems on these bikes. Others love them to death.
5) How is this possible?
6) Depression from buyers remorse is setting in.

1. All modern internal combustion 4-stroke motors are plumbed to catch and burn oil blowby and misting from the crankcase, so the crankcase ventilation system is always routed to the intake tract. On many Guzzis if you run the oil level all the way up to the full mark you will likely get more oil misting. The smallblock uses two vents from the heads each plumbed to spongy filters inside the airbox where the oil can condense and separate from the air. Vapors are drawn into the air box itself and burned through the intake tract, while condensed oil drains back through two hoses, a Y-junction, a check valve or something like that and finally a single hose back into the crankcase.

2. See #1 - no big deal, wipe it with a rag every 5k-10k miles. But the higher you run the oil and the faster you spin the motor (more rpms) the more oil you'll find.

3. See #1 - the oil/vapor separators are in another part of the airbox and shouldn't need to be accessed. Oil drains from them, and air passes from them internally into the airbox for burning.

4. Not sure what you mean, but my V7 has never had a problem starting. You could need a valve adjustment, or spark plugs (if you're burning too much oil vapor they could be getting fouled), or a remap, or ________________. But there's no reason it shouldn't be turn-key reliable like mine, or Cam's, or Jay's or ....

5. See #1 and #4 - many of us have completely trouble-free bikes, could boil down to simple maintenance.

6. Nah, we can help you get it sorted.

[oldbike54]

 Told ya Rob , thanks guys 

 Dusty

[robdrobd]

1. All modern internal combustion 4-stroke motors are plumbed to catch and burn oil blowby and misting from the crankcase, so the crankcase ventilation system is always routed to the intake tract. On many Guzzis if you run the oil level all the way up to the full mark you will likely get more oil misting. The smallblock uses two vents from the heads each plumbed to spongy filters inside the airbox where the oil can condense and separate from the air. Vapors are drawn into the air box itself and burned through the intake tract, while condensed oil drains back through two hoses, a Y-junction, a check valve or something like that and finally a single hose back into the crankcase.

2. See #1 - no big deal, wipe it with a rag every 5k-10k miles. But the higher you run the oil and the faster you spin the motor (more rpms) the more oil you'll find.

3. See #1 - the oil/vapor separators are in another part of the airbox and shouldn't need to be accessed. Oil drains from them, and air passes from them internally into the airbox for burning.

4. Not sure what you mean, but my V7 has never had a problem starting. You could need a valve adjustment, or spark plugs (if you're burning too much oil vapor they could be getting fouled), or a remap, or ________________. But there's no reason it shouldn't be turn-key reliable like mine, or Cam's, or Jay's or ....

5. See #1 and #4 - many of us have completely trouble-free bikes, could boil down to simple maintenance.

6. Nah, we can help you get it sorted.

Is there any kind of electric safe guard that would prevent the engine from starting if a signicant amount of oil mist is getting in the intake? I just have a feeling that the ECU is reading too much of something and not allowing the bike to fire as a safety measure. What do you think?

[beetle]

The V7 ECU has an air pressure sensor built into the throttle body. I suppose if that got clogged with oil it could affect many things. The intake-pressure correction table in the map has a significant affect.

You can get the cables from Amazon or eBay, just make sure they have the FTDI chip. You can get them from Lonelec in the UK, but they might take a week or more to get to you.

[Kev m]

Is there any kind of electric safe guard that would prevent the engine from starting if a signicant amount of oil mist is getting in the intake? I just have a feeling that the ECU is reading too much of something and not allowing the bike to fire as a safety measure. What do you think?

Beetle would know better than me, but I think the basic answer is no. I mean, not purposely designed to do that, but too much mist could be fouling things (like the spark plugs, or the pressure sensor, the later could give the ECM bad data regarding how much fuel is necessary, which could cause trouble starting).

When you're having trouble starting what happens, it cranks and cranks but doesn't fire/catch?  Or does it catch and die?

[beetle]

Kev's right. There's nothing specifically designed to prevent the engine from starting. The excess oil could foul the plugs however.

[ITSec]

Is there any kind of electric safe guard that would prevent the engine from starting if a signicant amount of oil mist is getting in the intake? I just have a feeling that the ECU is reading too much of something and not allowing the bike to fire as a safety measure. What do you think?

Short answer, no - the ECU isn't that 'smart'. Rob's comment is relevant, but would be very unusual. The 2013 V7 Stone definitely needs a map update - several have been issued by the factory since then, but Beetle's are almost always significantly better for most riders. The oil level is almost certainly too high - anything above mid-level on the indicator section of the stick would be too high on any small block I've seen. The plugs may well be fouled, and should be either cleaned or replaced once the oil level has been lowered. Drain the oil from the airbox (if the plug still is in the drain hose); if you like, you can also go into the airbox and wipe up the extra with paper towel or a shop rag. If the starter relay modification has not been done, do it - the motor will crank and fire more easily in both good situations and bad.

Once these things are done, you'll be well on your way to a reliable and very enjoyable bike. I owned a 2004 Breva small block for more than 5 years - it had a few issues, which I fixed, but was a great motorcycle that I didn't sell until I bought my Norge.

[robdrobd]

Beetle would know better than me, but I think the basic answer is no. I mean, not purposely designed to do that, but too much mist could be fouling things (like the spark plugs, or the pressure sensor, the later could give the ECM bad data regarding how much fuel is necessary, which could cause trouble starting).

When you're having trouble starting what happens, it cranks and cranks but doesn't fire/catch?  Or does it catch and die?

Cranks and cranks and cranks.......and cranks. When it catches it stays at idle and ride fine. Can take 25 cranks on bad days to fire.

[bellalucy]

Could be you're starting procedure. I know some people like to grab a handful of throttle while pushing the starter button. My 2013 special starts first time every time without touching the throttle at all.

[robdrobd]

Could be you're starting procedure. I know some people like to grab a handful of throttle while pushing the starter button. My 2013 special starts first time every time without touching the throttle at all.

I've tried every suggested starting procedure from coast to coast. With EFI I certainly didn't touch the throttle for the first ten tries, however after numerous failed attempts it was definitely tried.

[Kev m]

Rob I'd start with basics. Wipe up oil in airbox, maybe replace filter if necessary, check spark plug gap and condition, check valve clearances. Go from there.

Drain the oil from the airbox (if the plug still is in the drain hose); if you like, you can also go into the airbox and wipe up the extra with paper towel or a shop rag.

No drain hose/plug per se, the oil drains back into the crankcase on the 1TB smallblocks.

[Cam3512]

There is a hole in the front of the airbox, below the intake.  It's high enough off the bottom where any oil blown in won't drain out.

[pete roper]

On the subject of the factory map updates for the single TB V7's and V7-II's I've has several machines that ran significantly worse after the new map was installed. Why? I have no idea! But it has caused me to not even bother installing it if the bike is currently running OK.

My concrete suggestion is that owners try a Beetlemap. If they don't like it we can easily reinstall what they had before and refund their money. So far I have had to repay zero monies and people seem to be as happy as pigs in shit.

Overfilling of the sump will cause all the issues with leakage and poor running you're currently experiencing. Get the service and tune right first and see what happens. My bet is your air filter is like a sodden, oily sponge! That won't help!

Pete

[mjptexas]

...6) Depression from buyers remorse is setting in.

Yep, It's not much fun when a newly acquired bike doesn't run as one hopes.

My 2015 V7 can be a bit finicky.  Really cold blooded when I first start it, takes a lot of revs to get it going without stalling.  Once it's warm, no issues.  I have had a rare occasion where it does start hard when it's really, really hot (and the bike has been ridden hard  ). 

I'll probably re-flash the ECU sometime, but I'm waiting until I replace the stock pipes so I only have to do it once.

But my colleagues on this forum have enough knowledge that they'll have you sorted in no time.

[Penderic]

Your 'other' motorcycle journey will now start. Be advised and enjoy the expertise of our fine company, the ones with the thinner wallets. 


 

[sign216]

I have had a rare occasion where it does start hard when it's really, really hot (and the bike has been ridden hard  ). 

For hot starts, try starting at 3/4 open throttle.

[normzone]

Probably of little relation to your bike, and the posters are far more knowledgeable than I.

But I've noticed that when my Bassa doesn't readily wake up, continuously cranking it just makes me despair.

Whereas letting off on the starter button, waiting several seconds, and then trying anew usually yields better results. There is probably a technical explanation for this, but I'm still at the sacrificing chickens stage, so I dunno.

[oldbike54]

 Norm , I see the problem , it isn't chickens 

 Dusty

[Clancy]

Mapping & bad starts
Try ditching the factory map (you can always put it back if you want)

This is a cut & paste from one of my entries in another thread
Just ask if your having trouble (but please be polite - find something else to vent at first)
==========
Read the start of this thread just to familiarise yourself with GuzziDiag.
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=69168.0

Get the cable interface from here - seriously, FROM HERE! They work, no brainer.
http://lonelec.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=57_20&product_id=51

Download the software from here.
http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

You need
- GuzziDiag V0.47 (This enables you to view diagnostics live)
- IAWMIUG3Reader (This enables you to upload and save the current map in the bike)
- IAWMIUG3Writer (This enables you to download a new map to the bike)

I'm running Windows 7 and it was simple Plug & Play (I know, amazing!)
Start by opening GuzziDaig to confirm you have connection.
Then run the Reader and upload/save the current map. (Make another backup copy if you want) - now nothing can go wrong because you can always re-download the factory map.
Talk sweetly to Mark (Beetle) and offer some kind of recognition for his work!
Run the Writer to download the new map.
Test the bike. Give feedback.
DONATE TO THE GUZZIDIAG GUY(S) - They've put in a lot of effort for YOUR benefit.
=====

Oil in Airbox
The higher your oil level & the harder you run the bike, the more oil will blow into your airbox.
I put too much in it once and went for a hard ride on a stinking hot day and ended up soaking the air filter. My stuff up.
Try filling to mid way point only.
(I ended up adding a sump extender then keeping the oil at the lowest marking. I still get some oil misting in the airbox, it's just part of having an air cooled engine)

Your oil leak
This looks to be coming from the Y-Connector on your oil return line to the sump.
Most of the blowby oil on your model is seperated from the air/gasses at sponges located in the front of the airbox.
There are 2 of them.
The seperated oil runs down 2 return lines that are joined at the Y-Connector.
Check the connector and the hose clamps for failure or further up at the airbox end of the hoses (the oil could be running down the outside of one of the hoses).

Hope this helps.

[robdrobd]

Mapping & bad starts
Try ditching the factory map (you can always put it back if you want)

This is a cut & paste from one of my entries in another thread
Just ask if your having trouble (but please be polite - find something else to vent at first)
==========
Read the start of this thread just to familiarise yourself with GuzziDiag.
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=69168.0

Get the cable interface from here - seriously, FROM HERE! They work, no brainer.
http://lonelec.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=57_20&product_id=51

Download the software from here.
http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

You need
- GuzziDiag V0.47 (This enables you to view diagnostics live)
- IAWMIUG3Reader (This enables you to upload and save the current map in the bike)
- IAWMIUG3Writer (This enables you to download a new map to the bike)

I'm running Windows 7 and it was simple Plug & Play (I know, amazing!)
Start by opening GuzziDaig to confirm you have connection.
Then run the Reader and upload/save the current map. (Make another backup copy if you want) - now nothing can go wrong because you can always re-download the factory map.
Talk sweetly to Mark (Beetle) and offer some kind of recognition for his work!
Run the Writer to download the new map.
Test the bike. Give feedback.
DONATE TO THE GUZZIDIAG GUY(S) - They've put in a lot of effort for YOUR benefit.
=====

Oil in Airbox
The higher your oil level & the harder you run the bike, the more oil will blow into your airbox.
I put too much in it once and went for a hard ride on a stinking hot day and ended up soaking the air filter. My stuff up.
Try filling to mid way point only.
(I ended up adding a sump extender then keeping the oil at the lowest marking. I still get some oil misting in the airbox, it's just part of having an air cooled engine)

Your oil leak
This looks to be coming from the Y-Connector on your oil return line to the sump.
Most of the blowby oil on your model is seperated from the air/gasses at sponges located in the front of the airbox.
There are 2 of them.
The seperated oil runs down 2 return lines that are joined at the Y-Connector.
Check the connector and the hose clamps for failure or further up at the airbox end of the hoses (the oil could be running down the outside of one of the hoses).

Hope this helps.

Thanks, I ordered the GuzziDiag cables today. Do your think any of the excessive oil would cause starting problems, or may likely the mapping?