This may be the final straw.. dead Griso

[Phang]

Must be an Italian thing. The Benelli died while riding years ago. Everything energized but no start. No fuel pressure at the injectors. Hose clamp failed where the hose attached to the filter. This is an internal pump assembly with filter. Simple fix.

my 2010 Griso SE did that to me 5 months ago when I pulled to red line in second gear. All of a sudden the engine cut off and I cruised to a safe spot on the road side.

The engine will crank but it won't fire at all, first thing crossed my mind is something popped in the tank. Opened the fuel cap, turn on the ignition and I  saw the  dreaded swirling.

It's 3km away from my house and I decided to push her back, burnt plenty of calories.

[Chuck in Indiana]

It's 3km away from my house and I decided to push her back, burnt plenty of calories.

Tell me about it.  I ran out of fuel on my duck one time. Fortunately, I was young. Decided to push it about a half mile. I never had noticed that it was a little uphill before.. 

[Huzo]

IT IS NOT THE SIDESTAND SWITCH IF IT IS CRANKING!

I didn't think it was Wayne, but it was a simple way they could eliminate it. I've owned a Norge since '07 and I'm a bit familiar with it... It'll be what Pete said.

[PJPR01]

No they don't. At least not the CalVin.
It will crank and start in neutral though.

On my California it behaved exactly this way....cranky cranky cranky, but not starting up with the side stand down.

On the Calvin, was just up in Toronto and while there saw the same issue with Janusz' Calvin.  Would crank with the side stand down, but not start.  Pull the side stand up and it fires right up.

Now maybe someone has messed with the switches in both cases...but 2 for 2 in my limited experience.

It's a cheap item to test...and sounds awfully coincidental that the OP's issue surfaced right after futzing with his side stand.  Who knows...maybe the Guzzi Gods of Coincidence schemed and decided to FUBAR the fuel system at the same time.  Just little things to check and discard methodically...but YMMV.

 

[FGO]

My 08 Griso blew off the filter, had similar symptoms to yours. Pulled the tank and hooked up a better hose clamp and problem solved. Got a new filter from Guzzi, still in the garage or I gave it to Bill Ross when I sold him my Griso. Never a problem after that

[Kiwi_Roy]

On my California it behaved exactly this way....cranky cranky cranky, but not starting up with the side stand down.

On the Calvin, was just up in Toronto and while there saw the same issue with Janusz' Calvin.  Would crank with the side stand down, but not start.  Pull the side stand up and it fires right up.

That sort of makes sense, the earlier VII spine frame bikes cut out if you deploy the stand with the bike in gear but on those the start button is interlocked as well, they won't crank, who knows how the Griso ECU is configured.
Should check out the Neutral switch as well maybe?

[Huzo]

The Norge will crank and start with the stand down, but not in gear unless clutch is pulled in. (Mine's a bit dangerous 'cos the "safety" switch flew to bits on the clutch so I by passed it.) gotta be careful...

[Mark_Z]

I will try to answer all questoons if I can rember them.

While cranking, with the side stand up, in first gear, with the clutch engaged and the gas cap open, I hear the fuel pump start, but I didn't notice any swirling. This was 2 months ago, and thinking back on it, it did seem that I did seem that I saw  little movement. Of course, the cigarrete lighter I was using did't put out much light, so I can't say if this is really true. The guys at the shop said they could get gas to go thru, although they are pretty tired of the whole problem, and they want Sophia out of their shop, so maybe this aint so.

There is an idiot light on the display that says the side stand is down, bright yellow it is, but still not real visible in broad daylight. That's why it took me til that night to notice that, even with the side stand up, the idiot light still said it was down. Thus, the side stand switch replacement I did.

I haven't checked fuses or relays yet, its been in the shop ever since this happened. Likewise on any sensor checks, no checkee. Also likewise on the internal fuel line and filter, no checkee.

The Norge will crank and start with the stand down, but not in gear unless clutch is pulled in. (Mine's a bit dangerous 'cos the "safety" switch flew to bits on the clutch so I by passed it.) gotta be careful...

[Mark_Z]

Make it 50 and you got a deal

Hmmm, give ya 35 for it.

[Kiwi_Roy]

The ECU maps are just a part of the software, there's also the logic that explains how the interlocks work, that's something I work with, industrial control systems.
It would be interesting to get hold of the software that that allows you to monitor and make changes to the logic, it would be a great troubleshooting tool.

[pat80flh]

Make it 50 and you got a deal

 I'm at $100.

 The shop said that they could get the injectors to fire hooked to battery voltage? IF that's true, that means the control side is ok, phase sensors working. The  injectors aren't getting battery/ignition  power. Have you verified spark yet?  Have you checked connections at the relays? I'd have to see a schematic, but I bet those injectors are fed power from a relay, could be something as dumb as a corroded fuse or relay connection. Sometimes just unplugging all the fuses and relays will shine a contact up enough to start working again.

     Sounds like you need a new shop, if they were interested in fixing it, it would be done already. You don't always need a factory scan tool, logic and knowing how a system works will go a long way.

 Have a go at it yourself, it's not that hard.

[OlDogface]

$102.50....if you meet me halfway.

[Mark_Z]

The bid is up to $102.50 Anyone else?
W


S

$102.50....if you meet me halfway.

[pete roper]

That's about the cost of a new fuel filter hose and the time to fit it! Brilliant! Free Griso!

[beetle]

Start logic for a Griso:

Key on/kill switch off

Sidestand down or up -> gear in neutral -> start possible
Sidestand down or up -> clutch out -> gear in neutral -> start possible
Sidestand down or up -> clutch in -> in any gear -> start possible
Sidestand down or up -> clutch out -> in any gear -> start impossible

Engine running

Sidestand down -> clutch in -> gear selectable
Sidestand down -> clutch out -> gear selected -> ECU kill engine
Sidestand up -> clutch out -> gear selected -> ride away fast



Do yourself a favour, get bike back, buy GuzziDiag cables, download GuzziDiag check injectors/fuel pump/sensors/start logic etc, then if need be pull tank (5 minute job on Griso), pull fuel pump and confirm whether filter is adrift.

[Mark_Z]

It wont be hard to do, once I get it home from the shop

How hard is it to remove the tank, flip it over and pull the pump for a looksee?

If the filter has blown off there will be no pressure at the injectors so even if they do pulse nothing will come out. When you turn the ignition on the pump primes then turns off, that to me would indicate the problem is downstream of the pump and the filter is the commonest failure point. It's also dead easy to check! What are you waiting for? It could also be a burst filter due to ethanol but I think this less likely than just a blown off filter. When replacing use submersible fuel hose. The problem is caused by the pump manufacturer not using a submersible hose which is a pretty woeful oversight!

[guzzisteve]

Make it 50 and you got a deal

Don't have that much.
It gets power from a logic relay that all the idiot sensors go to.  You can jump across and it's a go, no more idiots. De-engineering.

[Mark_Z]

Well there is also the matter of shipping and handling. Ainother $1000 aught to do it

That's about the cost of a new fuel filter hose and the time to fit it! Brilliant! Free Griso!

[Mark_Z]

Roy, I don't know the answers to any of your questions, but I will in a few days. Thanks for your questions, they are a big help

Well there you go, is the sidestand light turning On and Off as you deploy it?

Is the fuel swirling around in the tank?

Is the pump re-starting while cranking?   It will always run for a couple of seconds when you turn the key or kill switch On

Are you getting a spark while cranking?

Do the plugs smell of fuel when you remove them after trying to start?

Perhaps you have help by the way of another Guzzi owner near Memphis, it sounds like a simple problem.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Sounds like you need a new shop, if they were interested in fixing it, it would be done already.

Ya think??

[Mark_Z]

They have the name vintage in the name, I guess 2007 is too new
G

Ya think??

[Doug McLaren]

 "Of course, the cigarrete lighter I was using did't put out much light"


I can't help thinking that you'll not be owning this bike much longer if that's what you're using to see if fuel is swirling in the tank.

[Chuck in Indiana]

That may have been tongue in cheek..

[Doug McLaren]

I'd assumed it was Chuck but we all know folk who've done dafter things than that.

[redrider]

Yes. Replacing cells in forklift batteries. With a MAP gas torch to melt lead into a post form mold, after using the O2 to purge the cell of H. Then you light the torch and pass it over the open cell fill hole. Any residual H lights off with a whoof or KABAM, depending on the amount. H2SO4 is sometimes ejected upwards to rain down on the area. Glad to not be doing that anymore.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Yes. Replacing cells in forklift batteries. With a MAP gas torch to melt lead into a post form mold, after using the O2 to purge the cell of H. Then you light the torch and pass it over the open cell fill hole. Any residual H lights off with a whoof or KABAM, depending on the amount. H2SO4 is sometimes ejected upwards to rain down on the area. Glad to not be doing that anymore.

  

[Mark_Z]

I would like to thank everyone that helped me with my little problem of Sophia when she wouldn't start. The problem was fixed 2 days after I got her back from the shop.

The shop guys fell into what Robert Pirsig in Zen and the Art Maintenance called a logic trap. They seemed to have assumed that the fuel injection system was messed up, when in actual fact, there was a hole in the fuel line leading from the fuel pump to the fuel filter.

I am now back on the road after spending $4.69 at NAPA. Again kudo's to you all!!!

[Zoom Zoom]

Good deal. I'm glad it turned out to be something simple.

Now for the big question: Did you use submersible fuel line as was suggested in previous replies? I cannot stress how important that is! If not, then I would obtain the proper line and dig in again sooner than later. The wrong line will become soft and slip off.

(I only ask because 4 bucks seems a bit low for submersible fuel injection line.) Don't use the clamps with the slots cut all the way around either.

John Henry

[Chuck in Indiana]

I would like to thank everyone that helped me with my little problem of Sophia when she wouldn't start. The problem was fixed 2 days after I got her back from the shop.

The shop guys fell into what Robert Pirsig in Zen and the Art Maintenance called a logic trap. They seemed to have assumed that the fuel injection system was messed up, when in actual fact, there was a hole in the fuel line leading from the fuel pump to the fuel filter.

I am now back on the road after spending $4.69 at NAPA. Again kudo's to you all!!!

Nevermind.. I see ZZ beat me to it.

[antmanbee]

This is what you need,
https://www.amazon.com/Gates-27093-Fuel-Line-Hose/dp/B001R5XSGU

And use the right clamps too, good quality made in Sweden,
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OL264DU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Or you will be doing it again and not in the convenience of your garage.