Author Topic: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety  (Read 5160 times)

Offline AMGeneral

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 747
Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2016, 03:39:17 PM »
SmithSwede and Ncdan nailed it!

 I am a situational driver/rider. I WATCH EVERYTHING! I have been honked at on the bike for not going at a green left turn light because I refused to go until I saw an approaching vehicle stop. I don't know if they will stop. I don't  know if they have their head into driving or the cell phone. So I'm not going to pull out in front of them until I am sure of their intentions. It a light not a physical barrier.

Guess it's the nearly 25 years of truck driving that crosses over to my riding. That extra look or pause has often saved my ass. I often just back off and slow down to get out of traffic. Sooner they pass, sooner they are gone. If I plan to exit or turn soon, I often slow down to also get away from other traffic. I can't stand it when someone passes then immediately turns or exits. So I won't do it to others.

I have watched other riders put themselves into a traffic situation that causes me to cringe. Often yelling, why in the hell did you box yourself in like that dumbass! Tailgating and cars on both sides! YIKES,

I ride for pleasure, so I try to not make it any more stressing than possible. I ride better that way.



2000 Jackal 62,900

Four wheels move the body, two wheels move the soul.

"Just think how stupid the average person is,
and then realize that half of them
are even stupider!"
--George Carlin

Online oldbike54

  • Moderator
  • Guzzi Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 24876
Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2016, 03:43:00 PM »
 Rod , I love you brother  :laugh: Great points  :thumb:

 Dusty
Transmit the message , to the receiver
Hope for an answer someday

Offline Lannis

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 25006
  • Location: Central Virginia
Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2016, 04:13:03 PM »
Drive as if NO one sees you, at all.

I ride like that in general, but you don't want to take that TOO literally.

Suppose you're riding down the road, with a car some ways behind you, and a car pulls up to a stop on a road from your right, preparing to pull across your path.

If you literally were invisible ... (ie you really weren't on the road at all), then the driver on the right would 100% of the time pull right in front of you or into you, and (assuming you took the "I'm Invisible" route), you would slam on brakes hard to avoid his path.   But THEN you'd get rammed by the car behind you, because he would never expect you to slam on brakes like that.

So you don't really do that.   You cover the brakes, you slow down, and prepare an escape route, but you don't stop right in your lane until the guy has crossed the road; that would be dangerous.

The thought's a good one, the practice a little different, I think.   Maybe it's just a quibble, but it's real to me.

Lannis
When you're taking flak, it means you're over your target.

Offline RANDM

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 528
  • Location: Mornington Peninsula Aust.
Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2016, 05:12:43 PM »
[quote author=oldbike54 link=topic=87095.msg1373311#msg1373311 date=

 Oh , about that horn thing , never use it accept to honk at a friend , or cute girls  :laugh:

 Dusty
[/quote]

That's prob. the best use for them too, but as mines
not even connected I wave at friends and being Old,
Grey and Wrinkly I don't think the girls mind if I don't
show appreciation for their still very attractive bits and pieces!!

Maurie.

Offline johnr

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4348
  • Location: Invercargill NZ
Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2016, 07:38:00 PM »
Maurie , that weaving thing works , or seems to . Reminded of the story George Gobel would tell about being stationed in Oklahoma while in the USAF . He was a radar guy , and made the rightful claim that he was obviously good at his job , as Oklahoma never came under attack during his watch
 :laugh: Still , weaving is a good idea .

 Oh , about that horn thing , never use it accept to honk at a friend , or cute girls  :laugh:

 Dusty

That weaving thing never occurred to me. An interesting and plausible concept which I intend to try.

I'm like you with the horn Dusty. I discovered its disadvantages when I was living in Christchurch. This was a the town with the most unpredictable traffic I've experienced yet. You could never trust a green light and pedestrians just wandered out in front of you any old time and place. 

I found that if you tooted them they tended freeze right in front of you like deer in the headlights. A quick rev on the other hand (1970s mufflers. Rocketship sounded like a cross between a Harvard aircraft and a souped up tractor) had them making superhuman dives for the foot path.

The white helmet idea may have merit but I'm dubious of its effectiveness. My current helmet is the first one I've had that isn't white and I've not noticed a difference.

On the other hand, I borrowed a MOT (cop) bike from the workshop (Lucas) in Auckland one lunch time to go down town to my bank. I was amazed at the 3 or 4 hundred yard circle of absolutely perfect drivers around me, especially on the motorway.

That blew the invisibility  myth out of the water. They do see you! It's just that, consciously or not, they ignore you.

For that reason I believe that one of the best things organised motorcycling could do for itself is a (TV) road safety add campaign focusing on the damage a motorcycle can do to a car. (which is a lot!)
New Zealand
2002 Ev tourer (Stalled again...)

Online oldbike54

  • Moderator
  • Guzzi Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 24876
Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2016, 07:41:50 PM »
 Interestin concept John .

 Dusty
Transmit the message , to the receiver
Hope for an answer someday

Offline RANDM

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 528
  • Location: Mornington Peninsula Aust.
Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2016, 09:13:06 PM »
Hey John,
There was a story going round about a guy who got frustrated
with commuting in traffic and put a flashing blue light in his
Fairing. No siren or anything - didn't matter as it worked a treat.

Maurie

Online Shorty

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2830
  • I'd rather lube a chain than crab a frame.
  • Location: Oklahoma
Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2016, 09:19:34 PM »
I'm hoping that a "fully engaged"  slow rider is fairly safe too...... :evil:


2001 Bonneville
2005 Bonneville/Dnepr rig
2014 Bonneville America
2014 Yamaha XT250

Online oldbike54

  • Moderator
  • Guzzi Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 24876
Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2016, 09:22:19 PM »
I'm hoping that a "fully engaged"  slow rider is fairly safe too...... :evil:

 Of course , just harder for us mere mortals to stay alert at 45 MPH  :grin:

 Dusty
Transmit the message , to the receiver
Hope for an answer someday

Offline ZumWohl

  • New Goose
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Location: Philadelphia area
Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2016, 09:36:08 PM »
I know I just joined the forum, but this topic is so near and dear to my heart, I just had to overcome the n00b shyness and reply to this thread.  I apologize if this is already common knowledge!

The issue of slightly weaving is a great technique, one that I learned of several years ago. It's actually called a SMIDSY weave...SMIDSY being "Sorry mate I didn't see you", as a cager will say after they ran you over. 

It's explained very well in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqQBubilSXU

When I was an MSF instructor, I tried to allude to this technique but was prohibited from specifically endorsing it, as it was not in the MSF curriculum.  I would get the word out during breaks when I could.

Anyhow, thanks to the OP for starting this thread, and to the forum in general for a great resource this new guy appreciates

Don
2015 GRiSO

Online oldbike54

  • Moderator
  • Guzzi Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 24876
Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2016, 09:39:50 PM »
 Don says "SMIDSY" , that is perfect  :bow: Oh , and you are welcome and we encourage the input from new members .

 Dusty
Transmit the message , to the receiver
Hope for an answer someday

Online Tom H

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1613
  • Location: So. Cal.
Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2016, 09:54:11 PM »
One thing I wanted to add that makes it easier to see a car moving. Look at the tire, not the car. While your moving, the car looks like it might be moving or not due to the background, the tire in the the wheel well can tell the story.

I would like to add a variety of scenarios that could help that I experianced today. Like I was about to lane split a car in the car pool lane. He put his RH blinker on no where near a car pool exit then turned it off. To be safe I had to wait a few miles just to be sure he wasn't going to move over to get off somewhere. Did I mention that he was going 50 in a 65?

O well better safe than sorry!!

Be safe out there!!
Tom
2004 Cali EV Touring
1972 Eldo
1970 Ambo
1973 R75/5 SWB with Toaster
2007 HD Street Bob
1953 Triumph 6T (one day it will be on the road!)

Online Shorty

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2830
  • I'd rather lube a chain than crab a frame.
  • Location: Oklahoma
Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2016, 10:14:05 PM »
Of course , just harder for us mere mortals to stay alert at 45 MPH  :grin:

 Dusty

Some of us have a better endorphin pump than others..... requires less stimulus.  :grin:


2001 Bonneville
2005 Bonneville/Dnepr rig
2014 Bonneville America
2014 Yamaha XT250

Online oldbike54

  • Moderator
  • Guzzi Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 24876
Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2016, 10:19:06 PM »
  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

  Dusty
Transmit the message , to the receiver
Hope for an answer someday

Offline johnr

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4348
  • Location: Invercargill NZ
Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2016, 02:00:49 AM »
Hey John,
There was a story going round about a guy who got frustrated
with commuting in traffic and put a flashing blue light in his
Fairing. No siren or anything - didn't matter as it worked a treat.

Maurie

I remember seeing one like that somewhere. His fairing was white and he had the word "TERIFIC"  in big black letters on it. Wonder if I can find a photo...
New Zealand
2002 Ev tourer (Stalled again...)

Offline johnr

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4348
  • Location: Invercargill NZ
Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #45 on: November 16, 2016, 02:15:32 AM »

It's explained very well in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqQBubilSXU

Don
2015 GRiSO

Excellent Vid! I subscibed to this guy. Got to keep learning.

Welcome to the board Don. Don't let the curmudgeons disturb your equilibrium.
New Zealand
2002 Ev tourer (Stalled again...)

Offline johnr

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4348
  • Location: Invercargill NZ
Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #46 on: November 16, 2016, 02:27:44 AM »
Interestin concept John .

 Dusty

I think it has something to do with perceived threat Dusty.

It's rare for example for a 15 ton bus not to granted the right of way (if it gets a bit pushy) whether it has a right to it or not. I suspect the basic 'rule of the road' is that the bigger it is the more right of way its got.

I know when I was riding through some nice forested twisties up near Taupo one day at about 70mph and I suddenly noticed my mirrors were full of Kenworth grill  I didn't argue the point. It was a fist full of throttle and out of there!  (It was a loaded logging truck!!!)
New Zealand
2002 Ev tourer (Stalled again...)

Offline simonome

  • Sunday Rider
  • **
  • Posts: 78
  • Location: Milano -Italy
Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #47 on: November 16, 2016, 04:03:43 AM »
All of those are good, but, the one that has kept me out of trouble the most is this.  Especially the blind part.

Drive as if NO one sees you, at all.

In my experience, this is not enough. Sometimes other people DO see you, and aim at you, either you are on a bike or on a car. So everybody else's behavoir should also be considered totally irrational. In other word, expect always everybody to do the dumbest possible think, and most probably they will turn out even dumber than what you imagined.

Offline charlie b

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 6944
Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2016, 06:56:44 AM »
I ride like that in general, but you don't want to take that TOO literally.

Suppose you're riding down the road, with a car some ways behind you, and a car pulls up to a stop on a road from your right, preparing to pull across your path.

If you literally were invisible ... (ie you really weren't on the road at all), then the driver on the right would 100% of the time pull right in front of you or into you, and (assuming you took the "I'm Invisible" route), you would slam on brakes hard to avoid his path.   But THEN you'd get rammed by the car behind you, because he would never expect you to slam on brakes like that.

So you don't really do that.   You cover the brakes, you slow down, and prepare an escape route, but you don't stop right in your lane until the guy has crossed the road; that would be dangerous.

The thought's a good one, the practice a little different, I think.   Maybe it's just a quibble, but it's real to me.

Lannis

I agree and it is one of the 'risk management' decisions like mentioned above.  Like someone mentioned in another post/thread, I have stopped on a road to let someone pull in front of me because they were creeping and I just could not figure out what they would do (and no one behind me).

I did forget the SMIDSY weave.  I do that a LOT when approaching intersections where there are left turn folks or cars entering from a side street.  Heck, sometimes I do a little weave when I notice someone coming up fast from behind.

FWIW, riding bikes has made me a slower and I think a better cage driver as well.  Even when driving my truck and, yes, even when pulling the RV trailer.  Yes, people don't 'see' a largish pickup truck pulling a big trailer either.  Compounded by everyone wanting to pull in front of you so they don't get stuck behind the 'slow' guy.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2016, 06:58:44 AM by charlie b »
1984 850 T5 (sold)
2009 Dodge Cummins 2500

Online gliderjohn

  • 2017 Board Donor
  • Guzzi Hero
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 5251
Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #49 on: November 16, 2016, 06:57:52 AM »
When on two lanes stay toward the outside of your lane when traffic approaches as you are more visible at a further distance to oncoming vehicles that might be thinking of passing the vehicle in front of them.
GliderJohn
John Peters
Walton, KS

Offline normzone

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2732
  • '72 Eldo - 1980 to 1990 - '99 Bassa 2014 - ?
  • Location: San Diego CA
Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #50 on: November 16, 2016, 03:08:14 PM »
I'm glad to see this weaving thing endorsed by several of you. I've been experimenting with it, and I think I'll do more. I've found it effective during:

Coming to a stop at night behind cars at a light

When somebody is mindlessly tailgating - not the deliberate kind, the clueless kind

Also I'm a pocket rider, some people call it gap riding. I've found if I find a pocket and weave around periodically the cars behind will assist me in maintaining that pocket by staying back because I look like a higher risk neighbor to them.
Could be the timing chain or the kickstand spring - the suggestion is bunkum

Offline lazlokovacs

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 572
Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #51 on: November 16, 2016, 03:09:50 PM »
I used to have a green fairing on the front of my calvin, and I wore a white helmet... In Belgium and germany, drivers literally pulled out of lane to let me pass, thinking I was Politzei.

Must have been just the right shade of green and just the right amount of CHIPS to pass for a law enforcement officer in drivers minds.

Weaving also does work.

great thread btw

Offline normzone

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2732
  • '72 Eldo - 1980 to 1990 - '99 Bassa 2014 - ?
  • Location: San Diego CA
Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #52 on: November 16, 2016, 03:19:21 PM »
Yeah, I already have that cop look by riding a white Bassa with a white handlebar mounted fairing. I can see people react to me several cars ahead.

It doesn't help much, they slow down, move over, cause confusion in traffic. If I wore a white helmet it would reinforce that.

I have two red Hella horns I'm trying to find a method to mount. I am resisting putting them on the front of the fairing.
Could be the timing chain or the kickstand spring - the suggestion is bunkum

Offline Hugh Straub

  • Sunday Rider
  • **
  • Posts: 68
  • Location: New Orleans
Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #53 on: November 16, 2016, 03:21:51 PM »
Great thread to which I'd add just one more point.  In spite of careful riding, stuff happens.  I dress for the fall...always.  ATGATT.

« Last Edit: November 16, 2016, 03:24:54 PM by Hugh Straub »
Brgds

Hugh
"Often wrong, never in doubt"

Online oldbike54

  • Moderator
  • Guzzi Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 24876
Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #54 on: November 16, 2016, 03:23:00 PM »
 Owned and rode a white airhead RT for years . Wore a black leather jacket and a white open face helmet most of the time . We don't have many motor cops in Oklahoma or Arkansas , but seems it still got peoples attention . Probably due to that TV show about California motor cops . Hmm , maybe some good can come from TV  :shocked: :laugh:

 About the weaving thing . My understanding is by weaving we present more of a 3D image than a silhouette . Makes it much easier for others to actually see us .

 Dusty
Transmit the message , to the receiver
Hope for an answer someday

Offline sturgeon

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 646
  • Location: Great White North
Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #55 on: November 16, 2016, 03:36:24 PM »
But I'll argue that if you're riding a 700 pound bike ,dirt bike skills may not apply...

Learning to instinctively stand on the pegs when running over something unavoidable in the road is useful on larger bikes, even though most consider it a dirt bike skill.

I've never had a 700-lb bike, but I once rode over a dresser drawer on a busy 8-lane highway in heavy traffic on my F800GS. Fully loaded for camping, it probably weighed over 550. And I rode over the donut-shaped base of a traffic cone on that same highway on my R1150RT, which was probably around 650 with loaded panniers and top case. Getting my ass off the seat and accelerating almost certainly saved me in both instances. Both times, I had to pull off at the next exit to slow my heartrate.
Dyslexics Untie!

11 Yamaha WR250R
14 Moto Guzzi V7S
16 BMW R1200R

Offline bad Chad

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 7811
  • Location: Central Il
Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #56 on: November 16, 2016, 05:31:17 PM »
Yeah, I already have that cop look by riding a white Bassa with a white handlebar mounted fairing. I can see people react to me several cars ahead.

It doesn't help much, they slow down, move over, cause confusion in traffic. If I wore a white helmet it would reinforce that.

I have two red Hella horns I'm trying to find a method to mount. I am resisting putting them on the front of the fairing.

Put a headlight modulator on that set up and you will have people pulling over left and right!  I know I had one on my black Bassa, I wore a white helmet and would occasionally get people pulling over for me.  Not sure its a great idea though, some cages might get pissed when they realize they duped themselves!
2007 Breva 1100  Red Arrow (and faster than yours!)
2016 CSC 250TT Zongshen

Online Ncdan

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2437
Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #57 on: November 16, 2016, 07:34:07 PM »
So many greats points, advice and statement in this conversation! Allow me to add just one more thought. The all my years of ridding I only went down one time with damage and injuries. The second cause of this Accident was a farm tractor made a U turn  in the road as I was passing, not a passing zone, the first cause of the accident was my lack of patience. Let me repeat PATIENCE:(
« Last Edit: November 16, 2016, 08:05:41 PM by Ncdan »

Online oldbike54

  • Moderator
  • Guzzi Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 24876
Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #58 on: November 16, 2016, 07:55:19 PM »
 Dan , that reinforces Smithswede's comments on how most accidents are due to a combination of factors , and how we must be the master of our own ride . Yes "PATIENCE"  :thumb:

 Rider here in Muskogee several years ago had a collision with an older gentleman . The older fella was negotiating a right turn into his driveway , and rather than come to a complete stop , he moved out into the center of the residential street to gain a better entry angle . The car driver even had his turn signal on . The motorcycle rider was in a hurry and attempted to pass the car on the right , instead of slowing down and allowing the car to complete its maneuver . The bike crashed into the car at maybe 10 MPH , no real injuries . Later , the rider came by all worked up over what happened , blaming the older man for what happened . "'Why was he moving left before he turned right?" Well , I never could get across to him that the accident was his fault , even though the officer that worked the wreck wrote the bike rider the ticket . Yes , patience .

 Dusty

 Dusty
Transmit the message , to the receiver
Hope for an answer someday

Online Ncdan

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2437
Re: Discussion with a really smart guy re MC safety
« Reply #59 on: November 16, 2016, 08:08:14 PM »
Dan , that reinforces Smithswede's comments on how most accidents are due to a combination of factors , and how we must be the master of our own ride . Yes "PATIENCE"  :thumb:

 Rider here in Muskogee several years ago had a collision with an older gentleman . The older fella was negotiating a right turn into his driveway , and rather than come to a complete stop , he moved out into the center of the residential street to gain a better entry angle . The car driver even had his turn signal on . The motorcycle rider was in a hurry and attempted to pass the car on the right , instead of slowing down and allowing the car to complete its maneuver . The bike crashed into the car at maybe 10 MPH , no real injuries . Later , the rider came by all worked up over what happened , blaming the older man for what happened . "'Why was he moving left before he turned right?" Well , I never could get across to him that the accident was his fault , even though the officer that worked the wreck wrote the bike rider the ticket . Yes , patience .

 Dusty
Yep, that's about what I did Dusty, thanks for the response!
 Dusty

 

20 Ounce Stainless Steel Double Insulated Tumbler with donation credit
Buy a quality tumbler and support the forum at the same time!
Better than a YETI! BPA and Lead free.
Advertise Here