First snow today so another 4 wheel vehicle thread - truck shopping

[Gliderjohn]

Help me to sort this out a bit. I want to replace my 97 Nissan 2WD basic PU. Ideally I am looking for a full size 2WD, basic extended cab, auto trans PU. It needs to be fairly comfy as we will want to travel with it some and will be the dog's riding vehicle. Because of that I would like to go vinyl or leather if possible.
Would only be doing occasional light utility trailer pulling otherwise hauling branches, small amounts of rock, mulch, stuff like that so would not mind a truck with bed scratches and such.
Thinking of something in the 3-6 or so year old range and would like under 80K miles. The only thing I am really hesitant to consider is a Dodge. Thoughts please?
GliderJohn

[Lannis]

Help me to sort this out a bit. I want to replace my 97 Nissan 2WD basic PU. Ideally I am looking for a full size 2WD, basic extended cab, auto trans PU. It needs to be fairly comfy as we will want to travel with it some and will be the dog's riding vehicle. Because of that I would like to go vinyl or leather if possible.
Would only be doing occasional light utility trailer pulling otherwise hauling branches, small amounts of rock, mulch, stuff like that so would not mind a truck with bed scratches and such.
Thinking of something in the 3-6 or so year old range and would like under 80K miles. The only thing I am really hesitant to consider is a Dodge. Thoughts please?
GliderJohn

Our 4WD Dodge Ram is 20 years old and still going strong.   If I ever get another truck (and this one might last out my time), I'll be considering a Dodge first.   That's sort of like a Yankees-Dodgers or Dallas-Washington preference, though ... I'm sure there are good ones of every brand out there (except maybe the old VW Rabbit based trucks that rusted into vapor when the drive train was barely broken in ...)

Lannis

[LowRyter]

Comfort?  Chevys have the best seats.

[Scud]

If you're willing to consider slightly older trucks, you might find the 4.7L V-8 Toyota Tundras would suit the uses you described. I bought a 2005 Quad Cab, 2WD new and still have it. It's been trouble free - only needed normal wear items. I think the last year of that style and engine was 2006.

Try to find one that had the factory tow package installed, which includes a transmission cooler.

Also (although you didn't ask) a hard tonneau cover is a great addition. When traveling, it becomes a huge, lockable, weatherproof storage area. It's easily removed when you want to haul big things (such as a motorcycle). That's an option worth searching for with the truck, because they are expensive to buy new.

[Gliderjohn]

I would consider something older if it has had a mostly garaged life so rubber door seals, etc. are still in good shape.
GliderJohn

[fotoguzzi]

would this work? I know your dog would prefer it as the rear windows go down.. I don't think any extended cab has more than a swivel vent window.

[OlDogface]

Subaru Forester with a trailer hitch. Leather seats, utility flooring, and covered back seat for Fido. You can keep the dog dry and still tow over a ton safely. You also won't need to fiddle with a 4WD system since it's already AWD. Think of it as an AWD Tacoma with a camper shell.

[chipdude]

So , there are many great truck brands from which to choose.
For my $$$, I'm partial to Toyota--- for several reasons. This pic is my latest purchase last month.
 {2008 4x4,118k ,paid $18k},even has the Stelvio in back for the last leg of the ride the bike to purchase truck and return home hauling bike!
I've owned 7  Tundras and 1 Tacoma. For repairs, I've collectively  spent $15 dollars for a new themostat- that's the total for all 8 vehicles dating back to 2003.
Why 8 trucks in less than 15 years? Well, I buy them used , drive them for a couple of years and sell them for pretty close to what I paid.
Not only are the engine and drivetrains very dependable but the interior and hardware seems to hold up better than the other brands. Yes, I am biased to the Toyota, but it is hard to argue with my results.
Search Craigslist , may take a few weeks to find the right truck from the right owner, but they are out there!

[charlie b]

I loved my Toyota 4.7L Tundra.  I only got rid of it cause we needed 4WD and more rear axle capacity (towing a fifth wheel).

We always get a crew cab cause of the dog  :)  My 2006 Tundra not only had rear windows that were electric but the cab rear window was also electric and we had a sunroof.  Like driving around in a convertible with all the windows down and the roof open :)

We got rid of it at 90k miles but it had no issues and it was the most luxurious car I've had.

[Scud]

I wanted more tow capacity and 4WD drive too - got a 97 F250 with 7.3 Turbo Diesel. I really like that dinosaur.

But I could not let my Tundra go. My daughter is driving it now.

[adventurelounger]

Toy! Yo! Ta! We have a 13 year old white Sequoia that our friends and family have affectionately dubbed "the Taliban truck." It is quite literally bulletproof. 140K and just tires and brakes.

So last year (and because of my bikes and other schlep-intensive activities) I bought a Tundra TRD Pro. It's awesome and will be a 15-year truck easy. Only downside IMHO is the lack of heated seats, and the predictably bad mileage. But so is every other 8-cylinder full-sized truck.

Toyotas. Hard to beat 'em. Maybe that's why they're the truck of choice among insurgent groups everywhere.





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Penderic]

I would stay away from light toyota used trucks, based on a friends experience.

Rear frame rust was a major safety issue. The left rear spring mount on my friends rusted truck, broke off and the axle would move around in a most stressful way! And just 3 days after buying it at a used car dealer.   

Toyota just settled a big lawsuit about this in the US. Billions of dollars! http://autoweek.com/article/recalls/toyota-will-settle-truck-frame-rust-suit-suit-34-billion


Toyota light truck frames rusted and replaced under secret warranty.

[tris]

would this work? I know your dog would prefer it as the rear windows go down.. I don't think any extended cab has more than a swivel vent window.

FG - is that a Subaru Impreza Pick Up?

If yes I've never seen one of those before

[Kev m]

would this work? I know your dog would prefer it as the rear windows go down.. I don't think any extended cab has more than a swivel vent window.

Man I had one of those I bought new, great all around vehicle. Even stuffed small motorcycles in the bed with a little extra support for the length. But the tailgate itself is rated for 666# (someone had a sense of humor).

Thing was a beast in blizzards, stable as could be in wet, pretty efficient, comfortable, quiet, handled well.

[Rough Edge racing]

 Right here shows the problem with many full size 4 door trucks, not just Toyota... 6000 plus pounds of vehicle and you can't fit a bike in the bed and close the tailgate....Then if you get a real bed on the back the truck is so long it's difficult to maneuver...Some mid size 4 door trucks have 4 foot beds...

[Kev m]

Right here shows the problem with many full size 4 door trucks, not just Toyota... 6000 plus pounds of vehicle and you can't fit a bike in the bed and close the tailgate....

Out of curiosity, what does it matter whether or not you can close the gate?

[Rough Edge racing]

Out of curiosity, what does it matter whether or not you can close the gate?

 Of course not ...But  like many other things, me and you have different viewpoints on trucks...

[Kev m]

Of course not ...But  like many other things, me and you have different viewpoints on trucks...

I'm sorry, I guess I was asking why do you care if the tailgate closes with a bike in it. What's the advantage?

I get that a lot of people are unhappy with the current state of trucks prioritizing family hauling at the expense of a bed, or that they are just too plain stupid big if you have a full bed and an extended cab.

Since I only need a bed occasionally but do need family hauling ability that doesn't bother me. I realize it's not as nice a way to carry a bike. Hell in my Subaru Baja I actually used a thick plank of wood that extended beyond the tailgate to support a bike. But it worked, and it was better than me hauling around more truck than I need.

So yeah, I'm sure we have different needs/desires in trucks, but I'm just wondering why it matters that the tailgate closes when hauling a bike. What's the advantage?

Or is it, as I suspect, that a bed that is big enough to do that, is more likely to do the OTHER THINGS that you care about?

[Rough Edge racing]

Or is it, as I suspect, that a bed that is big enough to do that, is more likely to do the OTHER THINGS that you care about?

 Yes.. My truck is a 03 Chevy Silverado standard cab with the 6.5 foot short bed.. My bikes can fit into back and the tail gate will close.The truck is 205 inches long, about the same as many midsized cars... However, I generally haul bikes on a single axle ramp trailer for the convenience of easy loading. And it can be pulled by any of my vehicles...I also use the truck the haul what ever will fit usually some sort of junk,...It's a 5 speed manual V8  2 wheel drive, cheap man's truck bought used...Being a minimalist, it makes no sense to me to buy something that isn't utilized fully...20 foot long trucks with four doors  are usually seen with one person aboard..Or a 750 pound bike just for a ride to the local bar...
  This is my opinion of course and in no way should it offend anyone here   

[fotoguzzi]

FG - is that a Subaru Impreza Pick Up?

If yes I've never seen one of those before

It's a Subaru Baja, discontinued after 2006..

[Murray]

Ah yes the dual (quad?) cab ute the great joke inflicted on the motoring public. You can have it all 4WD ute and family car all in one except the tray is so small and carrying capacity so lightweight its not useful, the 4WD is so compromised buy auto gearboxes low ground clearance and traction control systems programmed by complete morons its hopeless on a well made gravel road let alone anything that might actually justify 4WD. Because its a load carrying vehicle it will have cart springs in the rear and 4WD CV joints in the front making it ride crap and have a turning circle slightly inside that of a Nimitz carrier so even compared to the most mundane sedan you can think of it will be garbage on road. Oh and the room in the rear seat is sort of adequate for those under 12 but thats about where it starts and stops.

I don't like them very much if you are buying a ute/truck buy one single cab or maybe extra/space whatever else mouth breathing oxygen thief marketing execs have come up with this month. Dual cabs are a half arsed solution to a complicated problem.

[Kev m]

It's a Subaru Baja, discontinued after 2006..

Only made for 4 years - 2002-06, on the Legacy/Outback platform. 2.5L motor, either NA (168 hp) or turbo (with a spec similar to the WRX motor at the time).

 

[Muley]

OK, I'll weigh in here with some, I hope, non-biased information on pickups based on 40 plus years of using them for everything from passenger vehicles to trailer hauling workhorses to negotiating swamps, muddy roads and even a fair bit of ice and snow driving (considering I live in Georgia ) Note: I've towed horse(mule) trailers out west on many trips which included driving through blizzards, black ice and other stuff that made my sphincter pucker.  My diesel dually was the best on the snow, but it was overkill for what you want, plus it wouldn't go through mud very well - too heavy.

My wife and I now own '04 F150s which have been a mixed bag as far as reliability goes.  They have identical 5.4 three valve engines which work very well until they don't.   Mine is a standard cab, 4wd with only about 126K on it now, but those miles were rough ones mostly in the woods and towing stuff I shouldn't with a half ton truck.  I had to replace the entire phase sensor assembly at around 120K which was close to a $3000 price tag.  OTOH, my wife's truck with about 170K has never had a problem.  The idea was good, but if you let the oil get dirty and the tiny ports clog up there goes the variable valve system and a wad out of your pocketbook.

I also had to have my auto transmission rebuilt at around 120K, but I take full credit for that.  I hauled 8500 lb. tractors with implements on a trailer that added another 2700 lbs. or so and pulled pecan wagons grossing around 12-14K.  It worked OK until I got high centered on a hump in the ground at night when I couldn't see and ended up going to 4 low which slipped the transmission just enough to burn the plates.  That was with a tractor behind me.  The wife's identical transmission has been trouble free.

The trucks are very comfortable, still quite tight and handle very well.  Her's has a 3.73 rear end and mine is a 3.55.  The 3.73, based on owning other pickups is the one to get if you do any towing, IMHO.  Mine downshifts too much to suit me.

If you are driving on slick surfaces and you have a limited slip differential in a 2wd truck, you will have trouble controlling it when the rear end tries to pass the front   My truck has an open rear differential, and, being it's 4wd, it works just fine.  The wife's is a limited slip, and I am very cautious on hard, slick surfaces such as icy asphalt.

My advice to you is to get 4wd, since it really doesn't cost much more to operate or buy, you can find a huge no. of used units that haven't been abused like in the old days when they were few, and you will be much more able to negotiate the frozen tundra where you live.

In spite of the two major repairs I had to do on my truck, I would go to Ford again but would avoid the years of the 3 valve, maybe 2004 through '07 but not sure of this.  I have owned Chevys, GMCs (same thing), Internationals, and even a Studebaker , and they have all been good vehicles.  My son has an older Tundra that is very reliable, but it's a little crowded in the cab for larger than average folks.  The newer Tundras are much bigger.  Dodge is one brand I've never owned, but I understand the later models have the drive train pretty much figured out, a change from the days of weak transmissions.

In summary, I'd say go used for sure, 4wd for sure, open rear end is my pick for street driving, 3.73 gearing (or whatever the brand has that's close), V8, and whatever brand suits your fancy and pocketbook.  With new pickups selling for 40K or more, I will probably never look at anything but used from here on out.

Oh yes, your dog will love whatever you get

[Kev m]

Ah yes the dual (quad?) cab ute the great joke inflicted on the motoring public. You can have it all 4WD ute and family car all in one except the tray is so small and carrying capacity so lightweight its not useful, the 4WD is so compromised buy auto gearboxes low ground clearance and traction control systems programmed by complete morons its hopeless on a well made gravel road let alone anything that might actually justify 4WD. Because its a load carrying vehicle it will have cart springs in the rear and 4WD CV joints in the front making it ride crap and have a turning circle slightly inside that of a Nimitz carrier so even compared to the most mundane sedan you can think of it will be garbage on road. Oh and the room in the rear seat is sort of adequate for those under 12 but thats about where it starts and stops.

So many facts not in evidence.

1. Cargo capacity - might not be "useful" to you, but most are still as much or more than most people ever need.

2. 4wd systems vary - but I'll tell you this, I'll put some of the ones we've owned up against any "traditional" system. The Jeep GC systems for a number of years have been excellent. If any of the full time truck systems are half as good they more than justify the 4WD badge.

3. Handling - generally speaking the independent suspension trucks handle much better than their live axle predecessors. Hell, again not talking pickup per se, but you see the same thing in our garage and the Jeep GC with independent suspension handles nimbly like a car while my beloved live axle JKU bounces along like a the trucks I owned in the 80s.

4. Rear seat room varies with model. Ask Jay about the rear seat room in his, I think a small Korean family could live there. Then again it DOES have the turning radius of the Nimitz.

Things like this are about compromise.

You want big bed, but not Nimitz class carrier long - then go regular cab or extended cab, not crew. Then yeah, it's gonna be small.

You want big bed AND big doors/back seat - then it's gonna be long.

This isn't rocket science.

You want big cab and just need a bed sometimes - enough to move an occasional bike, a Christmas tree, some fire wood, some junk for the dump, a car motor or transmission etc. You can have all that.

I don't see the reason to despise em.

I really don't.

Me, I opted for the Jeep for fun, and I'll pull a trailer when I need to, but I could easily enjoy having something with small bed and big cabin again, EASILY.

[Lannis]

I'm sorry, I guess I was asking why do you care if the tailgate closes with a bike in it. What's the advantage?

In my case, if you are also towing a trailer while hauling bikes in the back, the jack for the trailer tongue interferes with the tailgate; if you want to go with the tailgate down and a trailer behind, you have to unbolt the jack from the trailer, which is a Major Payne ....

Lannis

[charlie b]

Yep, some trailers do have that problem.  Mine did not.

Cabs vs bed length.  FWIW, the 6 1/2 ft bed has usually been considered the std length but some call them short bed and the 8ft the long bed.  There is a short bed that is a bit over 5ft.  I've owned five pickups over the years, Chevy C10 std cab long bed, Chevy S10, Ford Ranger extended cab, Toyota Tundra Crew cab std bed, and the Dodge 2500 diesel crew cab std bed.  They all have their pluses and minuses.  If I wanted a perfect truck it would have a Dodge engine (Cummins diesel), Chevy transmission (Allison), Ford chassis, and Toyota body.

I'd never get a std cab truck again.  Too little room in the cab.  But, if you want it for hauling then the std cab and long bed makes a package that is very useful yet still fits in a garage.  The std cab versions are not always the ones with the highest payload rating so if that is important make sure to look at the truck specs before buying.

Yes, a crew cab and long bed is a LONG truck and won't fit in most garages and is difficult to park in some parking lots.  There are huge discussions about bed size and cab choice in the RV forums if you want to see all the pluses and minuses of the various configurations.  The one not mentioned here is the height of the sides of the bed.  They are very high now days compared to 20 yrs ago, especially in 4WD versions.

We use ours as a daily driver and extended trips.  It is comfortable, has a ton of room in it and is stable on the highway.  The current diesel gets right at 20mpg if I keep the speed down to 70mph.  At 80mph it gets 17-18mpg.  Towing our small fifth wheel it gets 10-12mpg.

There is such a huge variety of choices out there you can have it the way you want.  Want an 8ft bed that you can load the bike and close the tailgate?  Then get one.  Std cab is good enough, then get one.  Want huge interior and not much bed, then get one.

I'll be shopping for another truck next month.  I am really torn between the Dodge and Ford.  It will be a diesel, crew cab, std bed but not sure if I will get a 3/4 ton or 1 ton single rear wheel (as opposed to duallys).  Will have to see what there is on thee lots.

[Scud]

I like trucks. This is a great discussion.

Toyota frame rust - wow, I had not heard about that. With that knowledge, I would search for a dry-state car, not one that's spent it's life on salty winter roads.

Closing the tailgate - because when the gate is closed, your other stuff is secure in the bed and you don't have to bother with all manner of straps.

Cab size - this is really a personal decision. I like crew-cab trucks because I like taking my family of five on road-trips - and there is usually a trailer and/or motorcycle involved.

4WD - great to have when you need it, which is not that often. Fun to have when you want it, which is all about where you plan to go.

I was looking at newer trucks and decided to go with this old Ford instead. I could have afforded a new truck payment, so buying this was not purely to save money, but I am "frugal" (Guzzi content).



I know the original question is about a newer truck, but I had posed that question myself and ended up with this. Here's why:

Cab:  front bench seat and enormous back seat. Seats six comfortably and the dog has plenty of room on the floor in the back.  It's fabric, (my Tundra has heated leather) but some heavy rubber mats and a few Mexican blankets add to trucki-ness of it and keep the dog-dirt off the upholstery. I ripped out the AM/FM cassette and put in a bluetooth stereo and great speakers for less than $300 total.

Engine: the 7.3L turbo-diesel is a 500,000-mile motor. I found one with only 135,000 on it. If I put another 135,000 it will still have resale value. You can rebuild one of these motors for less than the cost of major top-end service on a new diesel. In California, 1997 is the last year of smog-exempt diesels. I never have to get a smog check.

Drivetrain: 4WD manual-locking hubs. No vacuum pumps, hoses or electric motors to worry about - but you do have to get out of the truck and turn the knobs when you want 4WD. It's got 4.11 gears, so it's a stump-puller, but the PO installed a Gear-Vendors units, which is a double-overdrive (fuel saving). It lopes along at 2,000 RPM at 80 MPH and gets better MPG than my Tundra.

Coolness: I've given up on old cars, because they're just not as much fun as my motorcycles. This is the last year of the "old body style" trucks and it scratches the old-car itch adequately for me. My kids and all their friends love this truck, but they don't give my neighbor's $60,000 diesel a second look.

Bed: this is the short-bed, which in 1997 meant 6.5 feet (not 4-feet like today's short-beds). The long-bed is about 8 feet (in case you want to close the tailgate when you have a load of drywall or sheets of plywood). I can close the gate if I angle a bike in - or leave it down to have the bike straight in.

Going the Distance: It's got two 19 gallon fuel tanks.

These old 7.3 Fords command a premium on the market - I don't think they are collectible, but they represent a good value for money. I would not want this to be my daily commuter though. It's kind of loud, a bit stinky, takes a while to warm up, and when people say "it rides like a truck" - well, this is the truck they had in mind.

[fotoguzzi]

  I've towed horse(mule) trailers out west

Mules> horses.

[Kev m]

For your amusement:

[screamday]

If you are driving on slick surfaces and you have a limited slip differential in a 2wd truck, you will have trouble controlling it when the rear end tries to pass the front   My truck has an open rear differential, and, being it's 4wd, it works just fine.  The wife's is a limited slip, and I am very cautious on hard, slick surfaces such as icy asphalt.

I have an F150 Lariat with the 3.5 liter Ecoboost engine. My first ever "New" truck. The limited slip differential is switchable. I can turn it on when needed and turn it off when it is not needed. I have only used it once since I bought the truck and it seem to handle find. It's not for driving, it's only for emergency situations where you find yourself stuck and you need an extra wheel turning.