Author Topic: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise  (Read 18697 times)

Offline rocker59

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Re: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise
« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2017, 09:50:23 PM »


     Look at Victory, probably sold 50 times more bikes each year than Guzzi and axed. I say lets hope for more and better bikes.

Actually, they sold about like Guzzi.





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Offline leafman60

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Re: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise
« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2017, 07:35:16 AM »
The whole Euro 4 thing may be a red herring excuse for Guzzi to cut models or it may be the new regulatory environment creating additional costs that a small manufacturer can no longer absorb in its efforts to survive.

Whatever MG continues to produce, I hope they improve their quality control and reduce the BS that an owner has to endure to keep the machines on the road.

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2016/january/mcn-plus---emissions-impossible-what-euro-4-really-means/

« Last Edit: June 06, 2017, 07:35:39 AM by leafman60 »

Offline WitchCityGuzzi

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Re: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2017, 08:53:56 AM »
So they're not going forward with an updated Stelvio. The ADV market being about the hottest in motorcycling. Cool.


Gee, I really hope they pour some more money into developing retro standards and trend humping hipster cruisers. That'd be awesome.
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Offline roadscum

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Re: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise
« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2017, 09:28:24 AM »
From 2008/9 through to 2016 they had a full range of truly *Modern* world competitive motorbikes in the Griso, Stelvio, Norge, Sport and Bellagio. They were under promoted and advertised and their great virtues of reliability and easy maintenance were hidden under a bushel. Piaggio then kill them, they say, because of emissions to which I say 'Horseshit!'.

If they were honest they'd say that the main reasons were low sales, (See above!) and the fact that with Marzocchi no longer making forks finding a different front end for most of their range was going to be a chore. Also all the designs were getting a bit long in the tooth.

As it is though Guzzi has been condemned to building smallblocks and the Calis and I'm sorry but I think they're garbage. Horrid, overweight, evil handling, under-suspended shopping trolleys. The antithesis of what Guzzi once was.

In my part of the world the reason for poor sales was lack of dealerships, poor support from the few that existed,  and lack of interest and support from Mandello. The nearest  partial component technician/ dealer was over 600 miles from my home. For major issue I would ride or trailer my '09 1200 Sport over  1500 miles to Huston and have Mike Haven perform is magic.

No matter how great the product if ya can't support it you're not going to sell it.

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Offline LowRyter

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Re: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise
« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2017, 09:48:05 AM »

The beaker and I exist in separate frames of reference.

zen
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Offline kirb

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Re: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise
« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2017, 09:51:27 AM »
My prediction, based on nothing:

Keep going with the 1400 cali line to cover your large crusier, touring rigs
V9 and V7 line for retro and starter bikes

Standards sell OK and is a benchmark for Ducati, so a Griso replacement make sense. Too bad it won't be single sided CARC. Not sure the 1400 would look good in a naked with the current form.

ADV bikes are hot, but the very good Stelvio didn't compete in sales. The Norge was even worse in a sport touring market that is VERY soft market-wide.

Not sure what else is left outside of a Griso replacement.

Offline rocker59

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Re: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise
« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2017, 10:03:45 AM »

 Not sure what else is left outside of a Griso replacement.

Why, a 1200cc "mid-size" FF Cruiser, of course...    :violent1:

Something to compete with the Scout and Sportster.

Kill me now.
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise
« Reply #37 on: June 06, 2017, 10:07:30 AM »
 :grin: :grin:
Ya know.. you might be right.
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Re: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise
« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2017, 10:57:48 AM »
About time! I wish they think of a improved way to strap a rubber chicken on our bikes.


 :wink:
« Last Edit: June 06, 2017, 11:49:09 AM by Penderic »

Offline bad Chad

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Re: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2017, 11:32:59 AM »
It makes little sense to go after the big Adventure market.  BMW has it locked down.    The Stelvio was competitive with the GS during the first few years on the market, but it just didn't sell in numbers that it should.  Sure, some of that is certainly a lack of marketing and poor dealer support, but that has been the case of Guzzi for as long as I can remember.  Around here, Jim Baron told me he could hardly move any Stelvio, because almost every guy who could afford one, wanted a GS, it didn't matter that the Stelvio was thousands less, it is about image.  They new about the Stelvio, but they bought a GS.   

I think the big adv bike market is a niche market that is well served, and has very little room for growth, in fact its almost certainly beginning to wane now.
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Offline Kev m

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Re: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2017, 12:08:44 PM »
The ADV market being about the hottest in motorcycling. Cool.

Hottest?

Not by total sales.

Not by a long shot.

Maybe it's the market with the most growth potential - that is EXCEPT attempting to take away shares of the 50% plus of the US market that Harley holds, and that doesn't count the additional percentage of the total market that Harley's competitors hold which includes Triumphs cruisers and arguably neo-classics, Indian, a not insignificant portion of JAPanIncs. sales, and most of what Guzzi has been selling for a few years now.

 
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Offline kingoffleece

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Re: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise
« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2017, 12:50:55 PM »
Interesting interview by Sir Alan Carthcart with Steve Meneto of Polaris.
One of the two big reasons victory got the axe was the cost of EURO 4 and 5 for the Vic air cooled motors.

In the new MSL from the UK for the entire story.
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Offline Travlr

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Re: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2017, 12:56:38 PM »
Piaggio will not build a bike that appeals to us old Guzzi guys.  Nor should they.  They need younger more affluent buyers.
Rather you like it or not should mean little to Piaggio.  Likely you are gonna be dead, or give up riding, before this model cycle is obsolete.

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Offline leafman60

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Re: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise
« Reply #43 on: June 08, 2017, 06:11:46 AM »
By the way, I have seen an official notice from Moto Guzzi that the Stelvio and the Griso models are being discontinued.

Offline rocker59

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Re: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise
« Reply #44 on: June 08, 2017, 08:50:12 AM »
   Likely you are gonna be dead, or give up riding, before this model cycle is obsolete.
 

we're old, but not that damned old!

Guzzi will probably have gone through several "model cycles" and a couple more "owners"  by the time I'm pushing up daisies.

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Offline steffen

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Re: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise
« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2017, 03:50:58 PM »
Hottest?

Not by total sales.

Not by a long shot.

Maybe it's the market with the most growth potential - that is EXCEPT attempting to take away shares of the 50% plus of the US market that Harley holds, and that doesn't count the additional percentage of the total market that Harley's competitors hold which includes Triumphs cruisers and arguably neo-classics, Indian, a not insignificant portion of JAPanIncs. sales, and most of what Guzzi has been selling for a few years now.

In the uk the GS apparently is the best selling bike > 125 cc


http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2017/june/gallery-adventure-bike-test/

And in germany as well
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 03:51:54 PM by steffen »

Offline Kev m

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Re: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2017, 04:27:47 PM »
In the uk the GS apparently is the best selling bike > 125 cc


http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2017/june/gallery-adventure-bike-test/

And in germany as well
But I believe those numbers are absolutely dwarfed by the US market.
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Offline ITSec

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Re: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2017, 06:29:30 PM »

(Referring to Victory sales)
Actually, they sold about like Guzzi.


Not at the dealership I worked at - as a salesman. We sold about 3 to 5 Victory bikes for every Guzzi, and we were good at selling both.
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Offline Stephen

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Re: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise
« Reply #48 on: June 08, 2017, 07:25:32 PM »
Another reason I have not bought a NEW Guzzi, though I have ridden the V7, V9 and the 1400.
Too any gee wiz stuff.
Am looking at adding another California1100 to the Gaggle.
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Offline bad Chad

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Re: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise
« Reply #49 on: June 08, 2017, 07:40:58 PM »
My  personal observation,  I have seen quite a few new victories and hardly any new Gussie  on the suburban roads around Chicago.   My guess is that victory likely sold three times as many bikes as M G.

 Thank goodness MG is owned by an Italian company if it were American it would be dead on arrival.
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Offline bad Chad

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Re: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise
« Reply #50 on: June 08, 2017, 07:44:23 PM »
 I'm very cautiously optimistic about what's coming.    Not that I'm going to be in the market but I'd like to see Guzzi continue in the roadster market   
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Re: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise
« Reply #51 on: June 08, 2017, 08:28:12 PM »
Moto Guzzi will probably have to limit production to what sells or has been selling recently
They are to small to hold stale inventory. Dealer presence is going to determine their future.

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise
« Reply #52 on: June 08, 2017, 08:29:26 PM »
My  personal observation,  I have seen quite a few new victories and hardly any new Gussie  on the suburban roads around Chicago.   My guess is that victory likely sold three times as many bikes as M G.

 Thank goodness MG is owned by an Italian company if it were American it would be dead on arrival.

Yeah, I see a *lot* more Victorys here than Guzzis.. I can't imagine sales are even close to equal.
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Offline rocker59

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Re: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise
« Reply #53 on: June 08, 2017, 10:11:50 PM »
10% of Guzzis are sold in The USA.

90 - something % of Victories were sold in The USA.

Guess it depends upon "world" or "USA" numbers in the discussion.

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Offline rocker59

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Re: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise
« Reply #54 on: June 08, 2017, 10:14:32 PM »
Not at the dealership I worked at - as a salesman. We sold about 3 to 5 Victory bikes for every Guzzi, and we were good at selling both.
I was referring to total worldwide production/sales.

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Offline fossil

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Re: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise
« Reply #55 on: June 09, 2017, 02:11:13 AM »
But I believe those numbers are absolutely dwarfed by the US market.

Possible. Here are the numbers for Germany from 2016: https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/154306/umfrage/neuzulassungen-von-motorraedern-in-deutschland-nach-modellen/ . The R1200 GS alone has about a quarter of the German market.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2017, 02:14:44 AM by fossil »
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Offline Kev m

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Re: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise
« Reply #56 on: June 09, 2017, 05:33:00 AM »
Possible. Here are the numbers for Germany from 2016: https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/154306/umfrage/neuzulassungen-von-motorraedern-in-deutschland-nach-modellen/ . The R1200 GS alone has about a quarter of the German market.
That's not working without a log in.

That said last I checked BMW sold about half or less worldwide of what Harley sells each year. And only a fraction of that are "adventure tours".

Harley sells 50% of the US market, though only a fraction of the world.

But in the US Harley isn't alone in the category with products from JAPanInc., Triumph, Guzzi, and others adding to the numbers.

My point is and was simply that "adventure touring" bikes are not the "majority'.

If we really want to look at the numbers I suspect that if you include Asia that neither "cruisers" or "adventure tourers" really make up the bulk of yearly sales, but I think that's another conversation.
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Offline Luap McKeever

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Re: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise
« Reply #57 on: June 09, 2017, 05:49:14 AM »
They need younger more affluent buyers.
⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧

Bingo!  No truer words have every been written.

It's past time to inject a new round of Guzzi riders into the fold.  Go to any campout/rally and look around. You might get lucky and see one or two 20-30ish year olds (8 times out of 10 they are related to a Guzzi rider and that's how they know about the brand).  Youth...That's the market that Guzzi needs to appeal to now.  It wasn't that long ago that the Centauro was labeled a hideous piece of crap by Guzzi veterans, only now to be highly sought after by said veterans.

I predict they'll keep the 1400 variant in maybe 2 forms with vintage lines for the veterans, but introduce a new, powerful, water cooled, technologically fulfilling 1200cc cruiser to compete with the entry level HD/Indians to appeal to the rookies.

But then again, I could be way off.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2017, 10:41:23 AM by Luap McKeever »
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Offline ITSec

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Re: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise
« Reply #58 on: June 09, 2017, 11:54:03 AM »
⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧

Bingo!  No truer words have every been written.

I predict they'll keep the 1400 variant in maybe 2 forms with vintage lines for the veterans, but introduce a new, powerful, water cooled, technologically fulfilling 1200cc cruiser to compete with the entry level HD/Indians to appeal to the rookies.

But then again, I could be way off.

This would be a good time to fulfill the promise made back in 2014 or so, when they teased a water-cooled 1300cc that was drawn up in cooperation with the Aprilia engineers. If I recall the discussion at the time, the target was Euro 4 and beyond, 130 HP, a hefty dollop of torque, and maintaining the Guzzi appearance with modern design. Such a design would be a very competitive base when measured against the competition in this space, such as the powerplants in the Yamaha FJR and the revamped R1200. It wouldn't go against the supersports, but that's Aprilia's job.
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Offline rocker59

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Re: Hints of new models in CycleWorld article on Stelvio demise
« Reply #59 on: June 09, 2017, 12:00:00 PM »
This would be a good time to fulfill the promise made back in 2014 or so, when they teased a water-cooled 1300cc that was drawn up in cooperation with the Aprilia engineers. If I recall the discussion at the time, the target was Euro 4 and beyond, 130 HP, a hefty dollop of torque, and maintaining the Guzzi appearance with modern design. Such a design would be a very competitive base when measured against the competition in this space, such as the powerplants in the Yamaha FJR and the revamped R1200. It wouldn't go against the supersports, but that's Aprilia's job.

An engine like that would likely be put in a chassis that would offer a direct competition to the Indian Scout and other 1100cc-1300cc  liquid-cooled Krewzerz.

Moto Guzzi won't be having any FJR fighter under current ownership...
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