V85 TT Merged Threadfest

[Kev m]

I disagree with your agree of disagreement.

I agree, with your disagreement of his agreement with disagreement.

I.e. BMW's got a bad case o' ugly!

[Perazzimx14]

I agree, with your disagreement of his agreement with disagreement.

I.e. BMW's got a bad case o' ugly!

Just like my wife who would care less the looks of what she's riding....as long as it handles great and feels good!

When are you and Jay women folk coming down to eat AMAZING cured meats, great BBQ drink high proof liquior and cheap beer?

[Lcarlson]

I agree, with your disagreement of his agreement with disagreement.

I.e. BMW's got a bad case o' ugly!

Sure works, though.

[Kev m]

Just like my wife who would care less the looks of what she's riding....as long as it handles great and feels good!

When are you and Jay women folk coming down to eat AMAZING cured meats, great BBQ drink high proof liquior and cheap beer?

Jenn won't ride or drive anything she doesn't think looks good. ... Well ... Anything but me.

One of these days we would absolutely love to take you up on that!

We're often kept close to the farmstead by our barely not ankle biters lol.

[Kev m]

Sure works, though.

I don't need a bike that is so much more capable than me that I feel inadequate lol.

I much prefer something charmingly as inept as myself. 

[Lcarlson]

I don't need a bike that is so much more capable than me that I feel inadequate lol.

I much prefer something charmingly as inept as myself. 

No argument there.😇

[MadMike]

I don't need a bike that is so much more capable than me that I feel inadequate lol.

I much prefer something charmingly as inept as myself. 

Styling is definitely important in a motorcycle because it keeps the design in check. This is where BMW went off the rails and what makes the V85TT so special. If you want a Bavarian shafty then you end up with a 1,250cc powerplant...and for what? So you can have have unnecessary servo activated variable valve timing, a forward facing clutch, electronic suspension that needs its own IP address, oh and get this, strategic liquid cooling. The whole point of having the cylinders stick out like the arms of a deranged cheerleader were for avoiding additional complexity and plumbing. Now you have double radiators along with the utterly useless A arm front suspension making the beam of these bikes ready for the 2019 boat show circuit.
OK- so you say...well not fair 'cause going by weight you should be comparing it to a BMW FU something or other- like an F850. Again, no shaft so not a real contender plus they are violently ugly.
V85TT fills a niche left open by the other manufacturers and as a bonus are easy on the eye too. Very important.

[Matteo]

Styling is definitely important in a motorcycle because it keeps the design in check. This is where BMW went off the rails and what makes the V85TT so special. If you want a Bavarian shafty then you end up with a 1,250cc powerplant...and for what? So you can have have unnecessary servo activated variable valve timing, a forward facing clutch, electronic suspension that needs its own IP address, oh and get this, strategic liquid cooling. The whole point of having the cylinders stick out like the arms of a deranged cheerleader were for avoiding additional complexity and plumbing. Now you have double radiators along with the utterly useless A arm front suspension making the beam of these bikes ready for the 2019 boat show circuit.
OK- so you say...well not fair 'cause going by weight you should be comparing it to a BMW FU something or other- like an F850. Again, no shaft so not a real contender plus they are violently ugly.
V85TT fills a niche left open by the other manufacturers and as a bonus are easy on the eye too. Very important.

I concur!

[Kev m]

Styling is definitely important in a motorcycle because it keeps the design in check. This is where BMW went off the rails and what makes the V85TT so special. If you want a Bavarian shafty then you end up with a 1,250cc powerplant...and for what? So you can have have unnecessary servo activated variable valve timing, a forward facing clutch, electronic suspension that needs its own IP address, oh and get this, strategic liquid cooling. The whole point of having the cylinders stick out like the arms of a deranged cheerleader were for avoiding additional complexity and plumbing. Now you have double radiators along with the utterly useless A arm front suspension making the beam of these bikes ready for the 2019 boat show circuit.
OK- so you say...well not fair 'cause going by weight you should be comparing it to a BMW FU something or other- like an F850. Again, no shaft so not a real contender plus they are violently ugly.
V85TT fills a niche left open by the other manufacturers and as a bonus are easy on the eye too. Very important.

Ha ha you're preaching to the choir brother!

Sometime, in recent history, bikes (and cars) got so unbelievably capable that we lost site of just how fun it is to push something close enough to its limits to scare us but far enough away from the instant jail me now speeds to laugh about it.

[kingoffleece]

As a good friend of mine states, "Fast enough to be entertaining, but not so fast as to get tunnel vision".

[Turin]

Quote from: MadMike on November 21, 2018, 08:53:42 PM

Styling is definitely important in a motorcycle because it keeps the design in check. This is where BMW went off the rails and what makes the V85TT so special. If you want a Bavarian shafty then you end up with a 1,250cc powerplant...and for what? So you can have have unnecessary servo activated variable valve timing, a forward facing clutch, electronic suspension that needs its own IP address, oh and get this, strategic liquid cooling. The whole point of having the cylinders stick out like the arms of a deranged cheerleader were for avoiding additional complexity and plumbing. Now you have double radiators along with the utterly useless A arm front suspension making the beam of these bikes ready for the 2019 boat show circuit.
OK- so you say...well not fair 'cause going by weight you should be comparing it to a BMW FU something or other- like an F850. Again, no shaft so not a real contender plus they are violently ugly.
V85TT fills a niche left open by the other manufacturers and as a bonus are easy on the eye too. Very important.




I concur!

So what we really want is this?

[pete roper]

Oh please! No!

[Huzo]

That rear UJ looks like it operates through a hell of an angle..?

[blu guzz]

I concur with Mad Mike.  Having had a few Beemers, I can say that in my opinion, they started to come unglued with the first "canbus" models around 2005.  Also, at that time, the prices took about a 20% bump model to model.  A subtle change started among the ownership as the tax bracket of new owners moved ever upward.  In 1999,, you could go to a BMW rally and find a slew of airheads (remember "simple by design") with many owners capable and willing to do their own service, and to help you out if you needed it.   These folks always had a cold beer and a smile at the ready so it felt like an extended family. A current Guzzi rally reminds me of this time. Personally, as I am new to the brand,I just thought I was getting a cool bike, but this bonus of community was unexpected, but very welcomed.  Contrast the modern BMW rally.  If you have a problem, you had best just whip out the credit card as opposed to a wrench.

[tazio]

BMW's forward facing clutch seems like a good idea.
No?
What am I missing here?

[Lcarlson]

Styling is definitely important in a motorcycle because it keeps the design in check. This is where BMW went off the rails and what makes the V85TT so special. If you want a Bavarian shafty then you end up with a 1,250cc powerplant...and for what? So you can have have unnecessary servo activated variable valve timing, a forward facing clutch, electronic suspension that needs its own IP address, oh and get this, strategic liquid cooling. The whole point of having the cylinders stick out like the arms of a deranged cheerleader were for avoiding additional complexity and plumbing. Now you have double radiators along with the utterly useless A arm front suspension making the beam of these bikes ready for the 2019 boat show circuit.
OK- so you say...well not fair 'cause going by weight you should be comparing it to a BMW FU something or other- like an F850. Again, no shaft so not a real contender plus they are violently ugly.
V85TT fills a niche left open by the other manufacturers and as a bonus are easy on the eye too. Very important.

You’ve already hit the real issue here, the appropriate BMW comparison with the V85 is the F series GS line, not the boxers. If you think the absence of shaft drive means it’s “not a real contender”, so be it, but you’d better hope the new Guzzi works anywhere NEAR as well. As for the distinctive GS look, it appeals to quite a few folks, being BMW’s top selling line. You don’t have to like it, of course.

That said, I like what I’ve seen of the V85 too, and hope it lives up to it’s promise.

[Tusayan]

remember "simple by design"

There were several versions of that but "simple by choice" is the one I remember, a self deprecating description created partly as humor.  "Airhead" was the same, and by the same bunch. The attitude and phrase was the result of early dissatisfaction among formerly hardcore BMW enthusiasts and was created by B. Jan Hoffman and Ron Jensen...  I was around at the time  (early 90s) I thought they were overreacting but in retrospect they were looking 20 years ahead with remarkable clarity.  Jan is still riding his R100R with who knows how many miles (hundreds of thousands) and Ron hasn't ridden a BMW in many years.  Last I heard he was riding the latest in a long string of Suzuki V-Stoms.

[mjptexas]

You’ve already hit the real issue here, the appropriate BMW comparison with the V85 is the F series GS line, not the boxers. If you think the absence of shaft drive means it’s “not a real contender”, so be it, but you’d better hope the new Guzzi works anywhere NEAR as well. As for the distinctive GS look, it appeals to quite a few folks, being BMW’s top selling line. You don’t have to like it, of course.

That said, I like what I’ve seen of the V85 too, and hope it lives up to it’s promise.

I've looked at the F750 GS and would predict it will be the main challenger to the V85.  Issue will be price, as BMW seems Hell-bent on importing bikes with all the bells and whistles.  I was quoted an 'out the door' price of $16,500 on a new one.  A fully loaded V85 should be a couple of thousand  less 'out the door'.  IMHO the V85 is a better looking bike.  I find the looks of a GS to be an acquired taste. Having said that, I'd be really tempted by a F750 GS that doesn't have the extra $2,500 in doodads that I'm not interested in.

[Lcarlson]

I've looked at the F750 GS and would predict it will be the main challenger to the V85.  Issue will be price, as BMW seems Hell-bent on importing bikes with all the bells and whistles.  I was quoted an 'out the door' price of $16,500 on a new one.  A fully loaded V85 should be a couple of thousand  less 'out the door'.  IMHO the V85 is a better looking bike.  I find the looks of a GS to be an acquired taste. Having said that, I'd be really tempted by a F750 GS that doesn't have the extra $2,500 in doodads that I'm not interested in.

True, BMW dealer inventory tends to be “loaded”. I’m sure you can special order whatever trim level you like, but really, when you’re ready to pull the trigger, who wants to wait? Agree that the GS styling is an acquired taste. After renting one last summer for a week-long tour, I acquired it.

[jas67]

BMW's forward facing clutch seems like a good idea.
No?
What am I missing here?

Agreed -- don't have to disassemble the whole bike to change it.

[Darren Williams]

I agree, with your disagreement of his agreement with disagreement.

I.e. BMW's got a bad case o' ugly!

"The German brand lost its way after this model in terms of weight, complexity, and various levels of ugly."

And that way over priced, ugly bike, with too many complex gadgets is a perennial best seller in the BMW line up. Any color out sells the whole of Guzzi offerings many times over. Go figure. 

[Kev m]

"The German brand lost its way after this model in terms of weight, complexity, and various levels of ugly."

And that way over priced, ugly bike, with too many complex gadgets is a perennial best seller in the BMW line up. Any color out sells the whole of Guzzi offerings many times over. Go figure. 

And McDonald's outsells every local and regional burger joint.

I don't care about that either.

[Darren Williams]

And McDonald's outsells every local and regional burger joint.

I don't care about that either.

Just goes to show us Guzzi owners may be in the minority. Which may not be a bad thing.   

[Perazzimx14]

I concur with Mad Mike.  Having had a few Beemers, I can say that in my opinion, they started to come unglued with the first "canbus" models around 2005.  Also, at that time, the prices took about a 20% bump model to model.  A subtle change started among the ownership as the tax bracket of new owners moved ever upward.  In 1999,, you could go to a BMW rally and find a slew of airheads (remember "simple by design") with many owners capable and willing to do their own service, and to help you out if you needed it.   These folks always had a cold beer and a smile at the ready so it felt like an extended family. A current Guzzi rally reminds me of this time. Personally, as I am new to the brand,I just thought I was getting a cool bike, but this bonus of community was unexpected, but very welcomed.  Contrast the modern BMW rally.  If you have a problem, you had best just whip out the credit card as opposed to a wrench.

If they still made airheads you'd probably still see them at rally's. But after almost 20 years of being discontinued would you expect to see the same numbers of them at a rally today?


I used to see a lot of Pinto's and Chevette's running around in the mid 85's heck there were a couple of each in the neighborhood now I can't remember the last time I even saw one. Now there are Ford Fusions and other new fangled stuff sitting in those same driveways and nobody but the dealer or service shop working on them. But in all fairness what needs worked on more cars from the 70 and 80 or late model stuff? Modern vehicles for the most part even the budget stuff is gas, oil changes and tires and expect at least 150,000 miles out it.


I'm a luddite in a lot of ways but thank dawg we are not damned to the same old mechanical technology from yesteryear. The real beauty is if you want old technology go buy it as there is plenty left out there. I you want new technology that available as well. Its a rare case of being able have your cake and eat it too.

[Tusayan]

Apparently new motorcycles are not "modern vehicles" then... 

A friend often gives me a hard time for preferring daily rider bikes of the 90s and before, despite him having a collection of classic bikes as well. His daily riders are a R12GS and a KTM Adventure, both ugly as sin in my eyes, but they're "modern technology" in his words and naturally "much better" for it.  In the same conversation he explained that the plan with the KTM is to sell it well before the (30K? kilometer) major service, which he estimates to be about a $2000 job.  Then he'll buy a new middleweight KTM.  Good luck to him, and the mechanics he's supporting.

The V85TT is likely to be a lot more of fashioned in its maintenance than a modern KTM or new BMW and I think it will be a strong selling point for enough riders to buy Guzzi production.

[Perazzimx14]

Apparently new motorcycles are not "modern vehicles" then... 

The second generation DR650 has been in continious production almost unchanged for the last 23 years.  Just because its "new" doesn't make it modern.

[blu guzz]

I no longer want to ride an airhead.  But, I can buy an MG with modern features that I can still work on myself and go to rally's with many others of like mind. I don't want to drive Pintos and Chevettes, didn't want to in the day either.  There is a difference between vintage and shit.  Airheads were never shit but Pintos and Chevettes were, so I don't really get the analogy. 

[Perazzimx14]

I no longer want to ride an airhead.  But, I can buy an MG with modern features that I can still work on myself and go to rally's with many others of like mind. I don't want to drive Pintos and Chevettes, didn't want to in the day either.  There is a difference between vintage and shit.  Airheads were never shit but Pintos and Chevettes were, so I don't really get the analogy.

Let me know how you make out with the rally/roadside repair on the ECU, ABS or other electronic compoent when it goes tit up on your Guzzi?

Or by wrenching on your modern Guzzi were you talking about fluid changes and valve lash checks an maybe spark plugs and air filters changes te same things you can perform on a BMW or just about any other manufacturer?

[blu guzz]

I typed a snarky response to you, but then thought better of it.  We have enough disrespect and lack of courtesy in the world for me to add to it.  Peace.

[Kev m]

Let me know how you make out with the rally/roadside repair on the ECU, ABS or other electronic compoent when it goes tit up on your Guzzi?

Or by wrenching on your modern Guzzi were you talking about fluid changes and valve lash checks an maybe spark plugs and air filters changes te same things you can perform on a BMW or just about any other manufacturer?

A. It's a huge logical failure to assume the ECU, ABS, or some electronic component that's unique to a modern bike WILL fail and that if it does it will be somehow more difficult to repair than it's older design counterpart. The assumption is mostly made by those who don't understand the modern systems or don't work on them.

B. There's a huge difference in what it takes to service most shim/bucket valves or even to access things like valves or spark plugs on many machines. It's largely dependent on engine and bodywork design.