V85 TT Merged Threadfest

[pauldaytona]

Needed for GuzziDiag I assume?  Do we know what ECU the V85 is using?

Yes for Guzzidiag, current version select California 1400, since it has same Ecu, next version will have seperate V85 entrance, but for now only optical. And the Ecu is 7SM.
There is little unknown about the V85. This adapter came out of my request to Lonelec. Since there didn't exist anything.
Diagnostics and mapping is possible.
 

[Zinfan]

Yes for Guzzidiag, current version select California 1400, since it has same Ecu, next version will have seperate V85 entrance, but for now only optical. And the Ecu is 7SM.
There is little unknown about the V85. This adapter came out of my request to Lonelec. Since there didn't exist anything.
Diagnostics and mapping is possible.

Excellent information, thanks for that and I'll be ordering one up soon.

[Kiwi Dave]

Lonelec now have a new adapter for the V85 for hooking up Guzzidiag.  It also has the advantage of not having to make separate battery connections.

Euro5 OBD2 6 Pin Plug Adaptor Cable Model: E5LE0616ADAP

Mine is on its way.

[pete roper]

The V85 uses the 7SM, same as the Cali 14.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Posted by Jim Hamlin on Facebook:

"The first batch of 4 V85's is on it's way to my shop, Hamlin Cycles. They should arrive next week. 2 of them are spoken for but I have a Red/White and a Grey available."

MG Cycle has the Mistral slip-on in stock, carbon and polished stainless:
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=26_105&products_id=5387

[averb]

For those of you in Sydney I dropped in to Motociclo this morning and John now has a demo bike. There is a yellow and white bike on the floor but someone put a deposit on it 10 minutes before I walked in. I think these are the only 2 bikes he could get from the second shipment, all the first shipment were sold before they landed.

Steve

[john fish]

Rode one today.  Some random thoughts.
The gray is bland and a mistake. 
Passing power feels equivalent to my Jackal.  Maybe a bit better.
The mirrors are fantastic.
The gears shift like a rifle bolt.  Very good.
The engine is veeery smooth.  Almost like a Honda.  The gear indicator and rev limiter are useful.  I rode my V11 Sport over to the test ride and it's like night and day.  The V11 engine has a huge amount of character and lets you know what's happening at all times.  You definitely know that large metal bits are violently being tossed about by explosions just underneath.  The TT is a bit bland in comparison.  However, it still has that broad torque band that can make for deceptively quick progress.
The analog gauges on the V11 are much easier to read than the digital screen.
Clutch is crazy light.
Fork dive is noticeable under braking but that's to be expected.
Suspension is road compliant but not dirt bike soft.  I hit a pothole on purpose and felt it; especially in the rear suspension.
Steering is very light.  Due, I imagine, to the slender and tall front wheel and wide bars.  I liked it.
Impossible to ride with forefoot on the pegs- the passenger peg mount gets in the way and makes it uncomfortable.
The little screen seems to work OK.  I didn't have it on the highway but it kept the wind manageable.
Ergonomics were OK for me.  I'm 6'2" with about 33" inseam.  The seat is scooped and kind of keeps you in one spot.  Very nice for riding the twisties, might be uncomfortable for a couple hundred miles.

I'll put it this way.  I did 400 miles on the Jackal last weekend and 160 miles on the V11 Sport today.  All in all, I'd have rather been on the V85TT for both rides.

[Glawster]

A few more thoughts after 2 weeks and 620 miles:
 - So far, respecting the running in protocols I have a genuine 62mpg (UK).  The fuel computer is 100% accurate.  Fuel warning light comes on a bit early with 90 miles to go.  Range is close to 300 miles.
 - Quality of the whole bike really seems very high.
 - Handling, ride quality and brakes are exceptional.  This is the biggest advantage I find after a Tiger 800.
 - Instruments are very clear.  I take John's point about preferring analogue gauges, but for a digital display it's really excellent.  Easily read in bright sunshine wearing shades.
 - I haven't tried the engine modes as I can't see the advantage of having less power.  Talking of power, the mid range from 3k upwards is great.  It's very flexible below that with perfect fuelling and for me it's fine, but for some I think it might be a bit lacking in oomph, particularly 2 up.
 - The low screen is too short to offer any wind protection, but I don't get any buffeting (5' 10").  Adding a Puig wind deflector gives a significant improvement but I will probably change to a higher screen.
 -  Yes, it's bland compared to an old Guzzi, but I would imagine to someone used to only modern bikes that they would find it brimming with character.
 - For me the real weakness is the gearchange around town.  While it doesn't crash into first gear like a BMW, all upchanges through the lower gears are accompanied by a significant clonk.  This I assume is consistent with modern Guzzis lacking any flywheel weight?  My only experience is owning a Griso, which was worse in this respect.  Switching to my V7 Sport gives completely silent changes.  Perhaps it will improve with more miles, but really it's the only point I'm not happy with.
 - The front mudguard is as you might expect, completely useless.  It offers zero protection to the front of the engine.  I hope someone comes up with an aesthetically acceptable lower mudguard solution.
 - One thing that does intrigue me is that almost all fasteners on the bike have been marked with yellow paint.  It's not like they are anti-tamper markings which would be broken by removing the fastener, so I don't really understand their purpose.  Will ask the dealer when it returns for the first service.
 - Oh and I'd love to know the purpose of the hole right through the crankcases!

20190629_104835 by Derek0812, on Flickr

20190628_140856 by Derek0812, on Flickr

[Cam3512]

The yellow paint is put there after the fasteners are torqued to spec at the factory. 

[john fish]

 - Quality of the whole bike really seems very high.

 - Handling, ride quality and brakes are exceptional.  This is the biggest advantage I find after a Tiger 800.

 - Instruments are very clear.  I take John's point about preferring analogue gauges, but for a digital display it's really excellent.  Easily read in bright sunshine wearing shades.

 - I haven't tried the engine modes as I can't see the advantage of having less power.  Talking of power, the mid range from 3k upwards is great.  It's very flexible below that with perfect fuelling and for me it's fine, but for some I think it might be a bit lacking in oomph, particularly 2 up.
 -  Yes, it's bland compared to an old Guzzi, but I would imagine to someone used to only modern bikes that they would find it brimming with character.

 - For me the real weakness is the gearchange around town.  While it doesn't crash into first gear like a BMW, all upchanges through the lower gears are accompanied by a significant clonk. 

Agree on the quality.  Definitely seems up to Asian standards.

I quite liked the ride quality.  My only previous experience with these ADV types is with a KTM 990.  The Katoom was quite soft and dirt bikey.  I think the TT will give a better road experience with more control than the KTM but it won't float over our local sharp edged swimming pool sized potholes.  Still best to avoid the craters.  It did do an excellent job over ripples and small deviations.

Good point on the instruments.  They were highly visible on a sunny day in both direct sunshine and in the shade.  I'm sure one would get used to reading all the info at a glance over time.  I'm just used to old-fashioned dedicated analog gauges.

The engine was really quite nice.  Not the pandemonium attachment quality (see below) of the old big block but a thoroughly modern and smooth power source.  Flexible with excellent fuelling as reported.  Reminds me of riding with a friend on a similarly powered machine.  I pulled away from him on some back roads and he thought my V11 Sport must have some huge amount of power.  Not really, it's just that I didn't have to shift for a good 10 miles while he was constantly rowing through gears.  The new TT offers similar flexibility.

If my, admittedly brief, experience is anything to go by, you will be very pleased as your gearbox breaks in.  Really, the change was smooth as glass and shifted with a toe tap.  I did laugh as it took me 2 or 3 taps to find 1st from neutral when I initially pulled away but that was the only glitch and didn't reoccur. 
Recently, I had to spend a few weeks commuting in town on my Jackal and it was a bit of a pain.  The clonky gearchange and drive train slop combined with the abrupt on/off nature of the old fuel injection was unpleasant at low speed stop-and-go conditions.

I'm envious of your TT.  I wish I could afford one at this time.  As it is, I'll probably be selling my Jackal, V11 Sport and old Eldo project to come up with some cash.  It really is a nice ride.  I'm also happy to hear that the suspension is better than the Triumph.  That seems to be the main TT competitor.

Oh, here's the reference to Pandemonium Attachments:

https://lproven.livejournal.com/304326.html

"MOTORCYCLES. By George Fitch (1916)

A motorcycle is a bicycle with pandemonium attachment, and is designed for the
especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics.

The motorcycle is equipped with a motor small enough to be put in a large pocket and loud enough to fill a large Coliseum comfortably.

This motor is connected with the rear wheel of a bicycle, and when it is in the mood will revolve the wheel with tremendous force, thus causing the bicycle to proceed from hither to yon over buggies, pedestrians, fences and small outbuildings."

[Trialsman]

Copied from Maryland thread:

I was supposed to be on the test ride yesterday with you but I had to bail and go pick up my bike at Team Charlotte.  After 460mi in the truck I made a deal with Tee to leave my truck at their place for the weekend while I play on the V85.  My bags did not come in yet so I put on some Wolfman soft bags from a dirt bike.  I do not like had top cases (I want to be able slide out if necessary in a crash) so I put on a kayak deck bag.  I had this on my 990 and it works well.  I put in the key, pulled out on the road in front of the shop and within 10 seconds the dash lit up like a Christmas tree in the first three gears - it is a VERY willing rever and I had to back off.  Here are some random thoughts so far with about 150mi on it.

Fit and finish is really good.  I’m not a fan of the red frame but it is only paint so I have an idea - the headlight support and the bolton tail sections are easily removed so I will strip them and powder coat them black.  It will tone it down and I think the red frame will look great.  Bear in mind this is only MY opinion, so just an option out there.

The handle bars are the right height but I will cut off about 1”-1 1/2”.
 
The gears engage very easily with only a positive click - so un Guzzi like.  A small problem is at a red light finding neutral.  I find it easier to click down from second while rolling to a stop rather than clicking up from first.  It could even be in the clutch adjustment.  I will play with it tomorrow, hopefully I will be meeting up with Dracula (Vic) somewhere around the Dragon.

The clutch is probably the best mechanical clutch I have ever used, except I cant wait to cut the ends off.  I only use one or two fingers - personal preference.

Engine power is very smooth.  They were right when they described it as linear.  Anything above 2500rpm it pulls quite strong.  Not as strong as my KTM 990 but stronger than my F800GSA.  It doesn’t have the depth of power that my Norge or Stelvio have but it is not a 1200cc either.  I think it will be perfect as is, well maybe put in a cross over pipe for the cat.

I did cruise at 75mph a little.  At 76 the warning light starts to show so extreme top end will not be much above 100mph.  Starting I am still searching for the stall point but the clutch is sooo good you can slip it and I have yet to stall it at extreme bottom end (1000rpm).

Ergonomics were very good.  I am 5’-10” 160# with 31” inseam.  Knee angle was very comfortable but I am going to experiment removing the rubber inserts tomorrow to see about helping the transition to standing on rougher sections.  It is NOT a dirt bike but should be very capable.

This bike is so stable I feel like I should stand on the seat, well not really.  It is extremely solid though and little, if anything will punch it off course.  Tomorrow I will be doing More twisties   so I will let you know how it corners and transitions from one turn to the next. 

Suspension is pretty darn good right off the bat in the lowest preload.  It might look at a little less compression damping or maybe a lighter fluid.  I plan on finding mixed surfaces tomorrow to test it a little better.

The rear foot peg mounts may need to be tweaked a little.  They tend to hit the inside of my heels when I stand on the balls of my feet.  I will pay closer attention to this tomorrow on dirt/gravel sections.

I have the tall screen and it is much more protection.  It is also pretty rigid but the air flow does hit me in the face.  If I duck about two inches it is quiet.  There is no buffeting though and I rode with my visor up to about 55mph.  After that I used the visor down method.  I will probably try a laminar lip to lift the airstream a little.

My wife asked me on the phone if it made me smile.  I said yes!

[guzzimaster]

I'm riding vicariously with all; as my V85TT has yet to arrive in Portland, Oregon.  Should have arrived mid-May.  It is so    hard to be patient. 

[Dave Swanson]

The truck will be at Woodstock Powersports in Illinois Tuesday and Wednesday,  which I believe is the last stop for the demo.  I am taking Wednesday off from work to go out with my son to test ride.  Wednesday also coincides with my 65th birthday.

[Knuckle Dragger]

Adjustable screens, luggage tiedowns & racks etc. from Isotta Italia.

https://shop.isotta-srl.com/it/moto.html?manufacturer=508&models=1382

Unfortunately, no sign of any accessory lower front guard from anybody yet.  Who makes these things anyway?  Acerbis?  R&G?  SW Moto?

I'm not a huge fan of those large flappy upper mudguards personally.  My only bike ever thus equipped (KTM GS600) was prone to the wanders at  speed on dirt or tarmac.  I'm sure it was down to that large plastic windsock strapped to the bottom triple clamp.  You could actually see the thing flapping about in gusty conditions.

Many riders hate the aesthetics of the BMW/Suzuki ADV rigid upper duckbill/lower mudguard setup, but in my opinion this combination offers excellent & superior protection from damage to BOTH the headlamp & engine front in gravel riding.  Bugger the aesthetic considerations:  prevention of the engine covers/headers/barrel fins being perpetually shot-peened by flying stones from the front wheel trumps the more rugged "outdoorsy" look of the big upper 'guard.

I also suspect (riders please correct me if I'm wrong) that the engine guard is situated & shaped to perfectly catch & accumulate dirt, dust, mud & pebbles coming from the front wheel & dripping off the timing cover too.  I hope it's easy enough to hose out.  A lower mudguard would all but eliminate this altogether;  losing the back half of the upper would also enhance cooling airflow to the airbox?? & 'insides' of the barrels in the apex of the vee. 

[alanp]

Adjustable screens, luggage tiedowns & racks etc. from Isotta Italia.

https://shop.isotta-srl.com/it/moto.html?manufacturer=508&models=1382

Unfortunately, no sign of any accessory lower front guard from anybody yet.  Who makes these things anyway?  Acerbis?  R&G?  SW Moto?

Here is a photo from Moto Guzzi V85 Facebook page.  Guy says the fender is from a Yamaha FZ400.

[alfaguzzi]

I belive a front fender from Aprilia Caponord 1200 Rally will fit the bracket.

[Kiwi Dave]

I also suspect (riders please correct me if I'm wrong) that the engine guard is situated & shaped to perfectly catch & accumulate dirt, dust, mud & pebbles coming from the front wheel & dripping off the timing cover too.  I hope it's easy enough to hose out. 

You're right on the mark.  First open road ride I took included a bit of road works, where crap flipped up made a beeline for the top of the guard.  A real front bum to clean, it's almost impossible to get access to.  Hose alone, was ineffective.

Coupled with road tar and other nasty things accumulating there, I'm considering repainting the top (inside) of the cover to make it less obvious.  I might try masking tape first to get an idea whether this will work.

[redhawk47]

- Oh and I'd love to know the purpose of the hole right through the crankcases!

For mounting the engine is other frames, yet to be announced.
The V7's use the thru the crankcase mounting system.
It's a current small block standard.

Dan

[Knuckle Dragger]

Here is a photo from Moto Guzzi V85 Facebook page.  Guy says the fender is from a Yamaha FZ400.

Thanks Alan.  That Yamaha 'guard fits:  maybe a tad too tightly 'though?  Without knowledge to the contrary I'd expect Yamaha's bike to be 17" front wheel equipped??  It just appears to follow the Guzzi's 19" wheel arc too closely, disallowing the easy escape of the inevitable mud, crud & pebbles that will undoubtedly be picked up & thrown out by the Guzzi's 80/20 Michelin Anakies or equivalent dirt-road tyres.

What's that blanking cover attached to the lower triple clamp for I wonder?  Covering up the original high 'guard mounting holes maybe? Seems a likely place to squeeze in a brace of Fiamm air-horn trumpets perhaps?

Mere conjecture on my part here.  Any other pics available?  I'd like to see the whole bike in profile to assess the aesthetics without that big "balancing" upper guard fitted.  Couldn't find the relevant Facebook page myself.  I like the Alitalia-esque corporate colours too, but viewed as we see it from the front right quarter maybe it's a bit bug-eyed without anything colourful or massive in that covered gap for'ard of the triple-clamp.

I belive a front fender from Aprilia Caponord 1200 Rally will fit the bracket.

Thanks AlfaGuzzi.  That Caponord 'guard surely looks the biz.  In a rugged, outdoorsy sort of way.  The 'Priller's front wheel is also 19", so it could be a successful physical match too, assuming the requisite 6 lower mounting points actually exist.

I'm actually surprised that Piaggio didn't select a Sachs front-end for the V85 instead of the Kayaba fork.  Corporate machinations, contractual negotiations & undoubtedly budgetary constraints (maybe, even, as a last resort, actual performance parameters) deemed otherwise I suppose.

That dark, matt, near-black faux-carbon look to the plastics would make it tend to aesthetically "disappear" against the rubber black/grey of the tyre.  It contrasts beautifully with the gold of the Aprilia's Sachs fork.  Contrasting against a silver Kayaba rather than gold Sachs fork & losing the shovel-shaped, brightly painted upper guard,  I wonder how that would effect the Guzzi's side & front profiles & the visual balance of the bike?

[sliphorn]

The truck will be at Woodstock Powersports in Illinois Tuesday and Wednesday,  which I believe is the last stop for the demo.  I am taking Wednesday off from work to go out with my son to test ride.  Wednesday also coincides with my 65th birthday.

-------

I was there yesterday and rode the V85TT and the Bobber Sport. Loved them both but the V85 would be my choice. Outstanding! Happy Birthday.

====

[Dave Swanson]

The stars aligned in a good way today.  Today is my 65th birthday and it just happens to coincide with the last day of the V85TT demo tour.  My son and I both took vacation days and rode out to Woodstock (IL) Powersports.  I rode my Norge, and my son Kristian rode my V7.

We were greeted by Dan, who is a very good host for this event, signed up and then proceeded to ride all the bikes he had to offer, V85 of both flavors, V9 Bobber Sport, and V7III.



Both of us were very impressed with the V85.  My son is now very much wanting to get one once his budget allows.    The V85 fits Kristian to a T!



I found the V85 ergos  to be as close to ideal for me as any bike I have ridden!!.  The seat was excellent.  My only concern would be the seat height.  I have to tip toe it around at walking speed. 

After riding the V85 the Bobber Sport was impressive, but wouldn't be my choice.  I didn't find the seat comfortable, and the footpegs were in such a position that they always seemed to be in the way when putting your feet down at a stop.

I haven't had the chance to ride the new V7IIIs yet and am happy to report it was great!  It was everything I like about my V7, except a bit more.   The 6 speed gearbox is very nice and and is a noticeable improvement over the 5 speed in my V7.  As nice as the V7III is I do not feel compelled in any  way to sell the V7 to get one.  The V7 is still a wonderful bike.  There is just a little more to love about the V7III

Riding the Norge back home I was amazed at the ergonomic differences between it and the V85!   It was weird how high the Norge footpegs felt after riding the V85, and how much more folded up my legs were underneath me.  The V85 wins my ergonomic category hands down except for the seat height, which of course is not a factor when underway.   I can flat foot my Norge at a stop.

I really liked the V85 and would think about buying one if I didn't have a Norge.  The Norge is such a great bike and it's 8V motor has more grunt and character of course.   Since the kind of riding I would be doing would be similar for the Norge and V85, I will just keep the Norge. 

Someone rode in on a V65 to test the V85.  Not many of these around!  Forum member??

[Trialsman]

Part two of the impressions after mile 900mile weekend on my new V85.
Quote "Speaking of noise the Michelin Anakee Adventure tires are noisy however. In a straight line they aren't bad but any deviation from straight up elicits a fairly loud tire wine. The tires do seem to provide good grip and turn in characteristics which is obviously more important."

Well this is good to here as I mentioned this same thing when I got back for my 600mi warranty check on Tuesday.  I couldn't tell if it was the tire but glad it is.  Anyway, I couldn't get the check as I had to head back North but I do have 900mi on it for the weekend.  One thing I mentioned in the first impression was having trouble to find first while at a stop.  Now it is very easy to shift all the way to first then it will click into neutral very easily.  It just needed a little time to break in.  Speaking of gears, the ratio and spread of the gears seems to be low enough in first and still have enough in fifth and sixth to cruise on the highway.  The shift to second, third, and fourth has a very precise click, click.  Never once, did it refuse to go into gear, miss-shift, or even give any problem.

The fueling as I said before, is spot on and I averaged right under 50mpg.  The day in the mountain twisty roads I pretty much stayed in third and sometimes fourth.  The sweet spot seems to be from 3500rpm to 5000rpm.  You can go higher but the warning lights come on.  I did some roll-on tests on level ground; 40m/h > 70m/h = 8sec,  50m/h > 80m/h = 5sec, 60m/h > 7sec, and 70m/h > 95m/h = 7sec.  I didn't want to push it even though I had over 800mi on it by that point.

Handling has not changed in that it has to be one of the most stable bikes I have ever ridden - no sign of frame flex what so ever.  The way I adapted to riding in the twisties was to grip the tank with my knees and roll with my hips.  It is very fluid and is a joy to ride.  Probably the fastest I done the Dragon of any bike I have had there.  Braking is very positive and was a one or two finger application, never any more.  Suspension was perfect on smooth roads but I would go a couple clicks less on compression.  Certainly, for every day it would be probably great as is.

The fit and finish is really good and I got dozens of people coming over to look at it and comment.  On two occasions as I headed up the interstate with the bike in the bed, I passed a car.  No sooner did I just get past and they sped up and stayed off my flank.  In my mirror I saw someone roll down the window, lean out, and snap a picture.  I got used to the switching and I actually liked using something I thought was a joke - cruise control.  Who needs that?  I guess I do because it was something I used quite often.

The only major thing I will be altering (and I do a LOT of altering on all my things - not just bikes) will be the passenger peg mounts.  I never ride someone so I will probably just take them off, or fabricate a new set which tucks in closer.  The problem is that when I ride with the balls of my feet on the pegs it will push my heels outward (pigeon toed).  Moto Guzzi has a real hit on their hands.  It can be mellow enough for a novice to ride, and has plenty for the more experienced rider.  WELL DONE Marco !  I am glad I already have mine because I think getting one will be difficult with the demand the V85 will generate.

[frans belgium]

The only major thing I will be altering (and I do a LOT of altering on all my things - not just bikes) will be the passenger peg mounts.  I never ride someone so I will probably just take them off, or fabricate a new set which tucks in closer.  The problem is that when I ride with the balls of my feet on the pegs it will push my heels outward (pigeon toed).  Moto Guzzi has a real hit on their hands.  It can be mellow enough for a novice to ride, and has plenty for the more experienced rider.  WELL DONE Marco !  I am glad I already have mine because I think getting one will be difficult with the demand the V85 will generate.

I had them replaced by Wunderlich pegs.
More comfort for the passenger, easier for her to mount and not in the way of my heels.
Look on the site of Wunderlich under passenger footrests.

[Trialsman]

The pegs are not the concern.  As a dirt rider I have learned to ride on the forward part of your foot as it prevents catching your toes on a rock or log and breaking something.  It is the bracket itself that prevents that position.  For a normal foot position, the location of the rear pegs and bracket is fine.

[pauldaytona]

Here is the Guzzidiag cable as Lonelec makes them, something every V85 owner should order, before there might be a problem.

[john fish]

I wonder if this explains what I thought was my difficulty in finding 1st gear from neutral?  From an Australian review:


The other annoyance is that while there is a gear position indicator, there is no gear position sensor on the gearbox. Instead the ECU works out what gear it is in via a combination of RPM and rear wheel speed. This means that when you are sandwiched between two trucks after lane-splitting to the front of the traffic lights the neutral light does not go out until you start rolling, which had me on tenterhooks when the lights went green as to whether I was actually in gear or not

https://www.mcnews.com.au/moto-guzzi-v85-tt-review-motorcycle-test/

[jacksonracingcomau]

I wonder if this explains what I thought was my difficulty in finding 1st gear from neutral?  From an Australian review:


The other annoyance is that while there is a gear position indicator, there is no gear position sensor on the gearbox. Instead the ECU works out what gear it is in via a combination of RPM and rear wheel speed. This means that when you are sandwiched between two trucks after lane-splitting to the front of the traffic lights the neutral light does not go out until you start rolling, which had me on tenterhooks when the lights went green as to whether I was actually in gear or not

https://www.mcnews.com.au/moto-guzzi-v85-tt-review-motorcycle-test/

I read that too , hard to accept. I thought neutral light was mandated by US regs a long time ago, stationary light not quite the same thing
But easy fixed with tape over idiot light , does anyone really need this or gear indicator light anyway?

[Zinfan]

I read that too , hard to accept. I thought neutral light was mandated by US regs a long time ago, stationary light not quite the same thing
But easy fixed with tape over idiot light , does anyone really need this or gear indicator light anyway?

I commented on it on my review of my test ride, I had no idea why the neutral light didn't go out when I clicked into first but I guess it was normal behavior, annoying at the very least.

[Kiwi Dave]

I first came across this with the V7-III Stone.

It's not a true gear indicator system, the gear selected is determined by a calculation of the speed and the engine revs.  This is why it is not present when you are stationary, although there is another "Neutral" display when no gear is selected.

I prefer the system on the Cali 1400, but it ain't perfect either.

[Trialsman]

/