Pulse Jet Ignition - Claimed 10% increase in power - would you care to comment?

[Simon_London]

Comments from the Guzzi elder statesman?

https://tinyurl.com/yb6qwuux

https://www.sinrojamotorcycles.co.uk/aboutpulsejet

[Lannis]

They look exactly like the "anti-fouling" inserts that we used to screw into the heads of old Ford and Farmall tractors with bad rings that were burning so much oil that they were fouling plugs!   These things kept the oil off of the electrodes so they would run longer without fouling .... !

Lannis

[Tom]

For 10% more vs. the cost.  Not worth it to me especially with the fleet.  Over $2500 USD for me.    Looks promising to squeeze the final performance out a big twin but if I wanted more, I'd ride 4 cylinder.

[ITSec]

It has some vaguely similar characteristics to the CVCC ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CVCC )combustion technique used in Honda cars in the 1970s - basically, achieving higher burn efficiency by introducing ignition prior to the main chamber and using the burn itself to create turbulence and more complete use of the fuel charge. Whether this would lead to a true increase in power would be questionable, though I'd note that Honda's 1500cc Civic CVCC was introduced as a sportier version of their (then) 1300cc Civic hatchback.

While this technology was effective in designs using carbs of the time, it was surpassed by the introduction of sophisticated fuel injection. As noted in the link, later variations were tried and abandoned.

I have no idea whether this particular variant would be more advanced than that tried in the earlier designs.

[PeteS]

Given the price it would be cheaper to make them yourself if you have a lathe. A tap and die plus hex stock would not cost close to that much.

Pete

[Simon_London]

Interesting similar principle to Honda CvCC.

For me, if these really can significantly improve how the bike runs I think they are a bargain.

A Plug and play 10% increase in power for �100 is a tuners dream. I don't think these can just be knocked up on a lathe unless you had one to copy maybe - they have been developed.

I cleaned all the contacts in the charging system of my Tonti and was surprised how much better it ran - due to the improved spark.
I now understand why people go to the trouble of twin plugging - way more expensive.

[fotoguzzi]

my comment is you should have used a tinyurl for that enormous link, my screen not that wide and it stretches out all the reply's too.

https://tinyurl.com/

[Simon_London]

There you go....

[oldbike54]

 Color me doubtful . This reminds me of those little plastic propeller thingies that were to be placed in the intake tracts of motorcycle engines that claimed to increase power . Turns out they were basically the blades from little computer cooling fans and did nothing .

 Dusty

[lucian]

You guy's really know how to poke the bear.   Looking forward to some expletives from down under.

[JACoH]

I remember the swirly tin plates called Swarup, that were supposed to swirl the intake gases for better combustion. It was placed between the carb and cylinder, odd that they even claimed that for 2-strokes where the charge was running rampant through the cylinders anyway. These things do look vaguely like the old plug extensions claimed to eliminate fouling. Looks like the ones pictured would extend into the combustion chamber a bit far.

[lazlokovacs]

so the idea is that with this mod the plug now fires within the tiny chamber on the end of the plug which causes extra turbulence and then the explosion exits via the little holes and fills out the rest of the combustion chamber quicker than it would normally?

my questions would be

is that possible?
will it really clear the top of the piston?
Has anyone heard of the guy that's making them?

[Dilliw]

Mazda's chasing my Skyactiv-G with the new Skyactiv-X in order to save the IC gas engine from regulatory doom.

https://jalopnik.com/mazda-s-holy-grail-of-gasoline-engines-is-completely-1801820285

[Ncdan]

Like a lot of other kid gimmicks after you spend the money you talk yourself into believing the mechine runs faster, smoother, cooler, cleaner etc, of of which makes one feel less stupid for throwing away the bucks for little or no gains. How do I know this, well........ don’t ask:)

[oldbike54]

 The ad is hilarious , comparing this nonsense to what f1 engines use . Yeah , it's the same , only , well , it isn't . F1 engines employ 2 spark plugs per cylinder , and on does fire just slightly before the other , all controlled by a sophisticated ECU , this guy is simply lying . Fact is , internal combustion relies on turbulence to complete burning the mixture , if I am reading his claims correctly , he is stating this reduces turbulence . What a load of horse manure .

 Dusty

[ITSec]

Mazda's chasing my Skyactiv-G with the new Skyactiv-X in order to save the IC gas engine from regulatory doom.

https://jalopnik.com/mazda-s-holy-grail-of-gasoline-engines-is-completely-1801820285

The Mazda development is certainly worth watching, but no one is coming to market with stuff that significantly changes the underlying mechanical complexity of the internal combustion engine. Direct injection is a small but worthy start.

I look to something that's been evolving in Formula 1 and other high technology engines for quite some time, even before the current hybrid designs. Start counting how many moving parts - and how much mechanical drag, weight, and complexity - could be achieved by using valves that are electromagnetically or pneumatically opened and closed. No springs (or at least minimal ones to close valves when the engine is shut down). Eventually, no camshafts and no systems to drive them (though these are still used today in F1). We're halfway there now (closing, not opening), why not focus on getting rid of all the mechanical clutter (and clatter!) inherent in a design that hasn't changed for a century? It might help engines approach the efficiency and output of more efficient designs that aren't well suited to ground vehicles.

[BigDave in PA]

On my Convert with points ignition I just increase the tension on the rotor button screw. It has the same result.

[twowings]

Snake oil.

Since time immoral, slick-talking hucksters have been pimping horsepower/mileage dreams to young men in order to separate them from their money...

Spend your money on routine maintainence.

[Tom]

SplitFire spark plugs.   

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/1997/02/splitfire-settles-ftc-charges-economy-efficiency-claims-are

[pete roper]

If I'm reading this correctly the idea is that the spark ignites the mixture in the little chamber with the holes in and then jets of flame, (Who doesn't like a good jet of flame?) will shoot out of the little holes and cause wonderful things to happen?

OK, so riddle me this. How does the end gas get flushed out of the little chamber and what will promote the fresh charge to enter it? Secondly what are the miraculous abilities of this system to promote a better burn?

I detect a smell of burning underpants!

[Tom]

    :1:

[Simon_London]

https://www.nature.com/articles/311738a0

https://www.google.com/patents/US4354136

[pete roper]

Neither of which answer the questions I put.

[guzzisteve]

They look exactly like the "anti-fouling" inserts that we used to screw into the heads of old Ford and Farmall tractors with bad rings that were burning so much oil that they were fouling plugs!   These things kept the oil off of the electrodes so they would run longer without fouling .... !

Lannis

This is what I get out of it, B S.  It's the  'Pilot Lite Theory'.

[Simon_London]

No Pete, it doesn't answer your questions but it shows that there has been serious research done by among others Nissan who have a patent.

I don't known what, if any real world benefits there are to this mod, but it's interesting and I might give it a go and dyno it.

I have to add, not aimed at you in particular Pete, this forum is a great place to seek advice but there are always a fair number of curmudgeonly responses.

[RinkRat II]

 It would be interesting if you do take the challenge and dyno it, simply to see the results versus their dyno charts. 

      Paul B

[Tom]

 :1:

[pete roper]

I have to add, not aimed at you in particular Pete, this forum is a great place to seek advice but there are always a fair number of curmudgeonly responses.

Perhaps because there are a fair number of people who have a pretty good understanding of the workings of spark ignited internal combustion engines and can spot snake oil from a mile off.

If you want to improve thermal efficiency this isn't the way to do it. It will do absolutely nothing for either volumetric or mechanical efficiency.

[Ncdan]

No Pete, it doesn't answer your questions but it shows that there has been serious research done by among others Nissan who have a patent.

I don't known what, if any real world benefits there are to this mod, but it's interesting and I might give it a go and dyno it.

I have to add, not aimed at you in particular Pete, this forum is a great place to seek advice but there are always a fair number of curmudgeonly responses.

Please do Dyno it Simon, i personally would love to get 10% more horsepower for that amount of money!

[Tusayan]

I wouldn't spend a nickel on these without evidence and experience from somebody other than the vendor.  That said, spark plug configuration can make a difference in some cases, for example Autolite 3923 plugs used on BMW R1100 engines to improve their decade long lean surge issue.