Heated Gear - do I have enough juice ?

[kballowe]

2017 V7 here.

Anyone running heated gear?

Is there enough charging overhead ?

The specs are 75 watts on the jacket plus 34 watts for the gloves ( 9 amps ). 
This may be a bit overstated, as we're running 2 jackets/glove sets (2-up) on another bike with a 15 amp fuze and no issues.

[Lannis]

2017 V7 here.

Anyone running heated gear?

Is there enough charging overhead ?

The specs are 75 watts on the jacket plus 34 watts for the gloves ( 9 amps ). 
This may be a bit overstated, as we're running 2 jackets/glove sets (2-up) on another bike with a 15 amp fuze and no issues.

A quick search shows a 270W alternator output for the V7.

That's pretty pathetic for a modern motorcycle.   But it's what you've got.   I doubt if that will pull the lights, ignition, and two heated jackets, but maybe it can be done.   

What I've done in the past is to buy a little 1" x 2" digital voltmeter, velcro it to the dash, and use it for awhile on a ride or two, see if the alternator is maintaining the voltage above 12.7 when you're riding.

Otherwise, you're not going to know until the bike quits.

Lannis

[kballowe]

A quick search shows a 270W alternator output for the V7.  I doubt if that will pull the lights, ignition, and two heated jackets, but maybe it can be done.   

Lannis

We won't be 2-up on this one - so just one jacket/glove combo.
Maybe I could just turn them on/off  on/off  on/off
 

[kballowe]

HA !

I remember my California Vintage (unmodified factory motorcycle) - the first time that I switched on the running lights and rode an hour..... stopped for a coke and then went to leave, only to discover that the battery was flat.  Replaced the bulbs with some lower wattage version.  But I don't think that I ever used those lights again after that.

[Lannis]

We won't be 2-up on this one - so just one jacket/glove combo.
Maybe I could just turn them on/off  on/off  on/off
 

Well, I do recommend the voltmeter.  I installed new lights and an electronic ignition on my 1975 Norton, and kept the old alternator/rectifier/Zener-diode charging system, which is nominally 180 watts.

The voltmeter showed that it was charging just fine.    Since I ride it hundreds of miles from home, I wanted to know .... If you don't have SOME indicator, you'll never know ....

Lannis

[Darren Williams]

Well, I do recommend the voltmeter.  I installed new lights and an electronic ignition on my 1975 Norton, and kept the old alternator/rectifier/Zener-diode charging system, which is nominally 180 watts.

The voltmeter showed that it was charging just fine.    Since I ride it hundreds of miles from home, I wanted to know .... If you don't have SOME indicator, you'll never know ....

Lannis

 :1: I bought A few volt meters that plug into the 12V power outlets.  They were only a few dollars each and are a good piece of mind, when running heated gear and extra lights and stuff, to know your charging system is keeping up.

[Ncdan]

HA !

I remember my California Vintage (unmodified factory motorcycle) - the first time that I switched on the running lights and rode an hour..... stopped for a coke and then went to leave, only to discover that the battery was flat.  Replaced the bulbs with some lower wattage version.  But I don't think that I ever used those lights again after that.

The exact same for me with my 07 calvin. Accidentally turned on the running lights and didn’t realize it until the bike started spitting and sputtering due to lack of juice and my headlight bulb has been changed.
No need to complain because it is what it is but it’s a shame that a modern motorcycle has this poor of engineering planning and forethought.

[drdwb]

On my wife’s 2004 750 Breva I got very tired of having to constantly put it on the charger, there’s is a parasitic drain,  and when you add in the constantly on headlight,just not enough out put to keep the battery charged and happy. So I swapped out all the lights with LEDs, that allowed me instal hand warmers for her and she gets more light. And we haven’t had a flat battery yet when traveling since doing the swap.
I have not found the parasite,but from what I understand other 750 Breva have the same problem.
Thanks Lannis for the reminder on the volt meter, I’m putting it on the to do soon list.
Dave

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

My '76 Convert has basically the same alternator output - that is when the engine is actually revving high enough. Kuryakyn battery gauge to keep tabs on things and LEDs all around allow me just enough extra wattage for heated gear.

[pyoungbl]

My '13 dry alternator is supposed to put out 300 watts so my experience is not apples to apples.  With that said, I run a heated jacket as needed and my voltmeter tells me that as long as I have the engine above idle I'm OK.  One owner of a wet alternator V7 did run his battery down while on a multi state ride home from buying the bike new.  As I recall, he was using heated gloves as well as a heated liner....maybe some other stuff too.   Lannis is correct, the only way to really know where you stand is to install a volt meter.  Here's one for $7:  www.amazon.com/SMAKN-Digital-Voltmeter-Voltage-Protection/dp/B00CXMLIL8/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1521987530&sr=8-6&keywords=digital+voltmeter

Peter Y.

[Kev m]

The exact same for me with my 07 calvin.

<snip>
 
No need to complain because it is what it is but it’s a shame that a modern motorcycle has this poor of engineering planning and forethought.

But it's not really a modern motorcycle in terms of engineering/design. The design is many decades old.

That's why the CARCs used a belt driven alternator, but the Tonti frame didn't have the room for that.

[Bucky]

Does anyone make a kit for MG like Motorrad Elektrik does for BMW airheads, to increase wattage output?

A volt meter and a Motorrad type kit would be the first 2 things I would do with the new V7.
I would never run a bike without a voltmeter.

[Wayne Orwig]

Install a voltmeter.
Get a thermostat/controller for the electric gear.
Get a voltmeter.
Just monitor it occasionally.
Get a voltmeter.
You will be fine if you turn down the heat at low RPM.
And get a voltmeter.

[SmithSwede]

In the winter I routinely run a heated jacket and gloves on my 2013 Stone.  No issues.

But I think the earlier dry alternator has more output than the subsequent wet alternators.

Never did understand why they made that change. 

[twhitaker]

Never understand why they made that change.

The most likely reason for the change is because the supplier obsoleted it.

[Diploman]

Euromotoelectrics has a variety of alternator upgrade kits that will fit 1973-1995 Moto Guzzi's with Bosch or Saprisa OEM alternators.  This one produces 450 watts and has received very positive reviews from Tonti owners who have fitted it.  In theory, this kit could also be fitted on early series smallblocks, which were equipped with identical charging systems to the big blocks of the same era.  Whether this or another upgrade kit could be adapted to the current V7 smallblock series is unknown, and would likely depend on the degree to which the charging systems have been altered between early and current smallblock series.

Dave Richardson notes in Guzziology that smallblocks generally have fewer low voltage/undercharging problems than do the big blocks because the smaller motors are usually operating at higher RPM for any given speed or situation.  I believe his comments, however, apply only to the early smallblock and Tonti big block series, which used the same charging system:  V7 and CARC series bikes were fitted with quite different charging systems.

http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/product-p/edl450-altkit105.htm

[Vagrant]

I've run the heated grips on 60% and the old wired Gerbing jacket at about 80% with the heat troller all day on the 2017 V7 with no problems. At the same time the GPS and radar detector were on too.

[BoatDoc]

I have a 2016 V7II Stornello. After taking a long ride a few weeks ago with Gerbing heated vest and gloves I put the bike away for a week and came back to find a dead, non-recoverable battery. So, last weekend I watched the Battery Tender voltmeter on the new battery and while riding on the freeway it read 12.4 Volts. Not good enough. Yesterday I installed a LED taillight and today will put in a LED headlight bulb. That should give me about another 55 W to play with.

[Wayne Orwig]

In the winter I routinely run a heated jacket and gloves on my 2013 Stone.  No issues.

But I think the earlier dry alternator has more output than the subsequent wet alternators.

Never did understand why they made that change.

I was told that they bumped the wattage UP, so they could run ABS. Is that not so?

[Kev m]

I was told that they bumped the wattage UP, so they could run ABS. Is that not so?

But the wattage went down?!?

[Wayne Orwig]

But the wattage went down?!?

I never checked the specs. Just what I was told, and it of course sounded correct.

[Kev m]

I never checked the specs. Just what I was told, and it of course sounded correct.

Yeah I would have expected it to go up and that would have been a logical reason. That's what makes it extra bizarre.

[redhawk47]

My riding buddy ask this same question today
I found this reference:
http://www.powerlet.com/learningCenter/excessCapacity

[kingoffleece]

If you have a Battery Tender pig tail it's cake to get a voltage meter that plugs right in.

[wymple]

"That's why the CARCs used a belt driven alternator, but the Tonti frame didn't have the room for that."



It's possible.

[Kev m]

"That's why the CARCs used a belt driven alternator, but the Tonti frame didn't have the room for that."



It's possible.

Interesting... Details?

[TimmyTheHog]

on my 15 V7, according to my manual, it is supposed to output 350W...then again, if its wrong, I won't be surprised...

Anyway, to avoid issues, I usually just either the vest or the glove, but never both the same time.

And as echo to EVERYONE, get a voltmeter

[Kiwi_Roy]

Of the 6 Guzzis I have owned the surprising one that runs heated gear with the least worry it's my old loop with a generator, I guess because it spins a lot faster than crank speed and the bike also draws less for ignition and lighting.
This time of year I run 100% without a controller. I don't feel the need to upgrade to an alternator.

The California II was always struggling to maintain Voltage, if I was running a vest and gloves I would unplug 10 minutes before turning off. If you accidentally forgot to unplug for a couple of minutes you were pushing for sure. Luckily it was a good starter because I had to do that many times.

You should power the heated gear from a point that's off with the key, Headlight relay perhaps or a relay with the coil in parallel. http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2013_V7_Series.gif

I came across this thread says the V7 alternator only puts out 270 Watts
I think LED lamps would be a must if you want to run more than one piece of heated gear.
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=92940.0

[ohiorider]

Interesting... Details?


[/quote]I'm thinking the (driven) alternator pulley is smaller in diameter than the driving pulley on the crankshaft.  I've changed belts but don't recall.  I'll ck and see if I have a pic taken when I changed the belt.  Plus, the alternator is probably physically larger, since it's between the cylinders instead of on the front of the crankshaft.

Bob





EDIT - couldn't find a pic I'd taken, but this one from a manual clearly shows the alternator is 'geared' to spin faster than the crank.

[Toecutter]

Real trip experience here.

Rode out to Victoria in September, from Alberta. Both my wife and I on our '14 V7s (special & stone). The stretch from Rocky Mountain House to Lake Louise, my wife was running heated gloves and vest on her Stone, "Warm and Safe" brand.

Pulled into gas station in Lake Louise... her bike's battery was dead a doornail.

If she kills the vest about 5 minutes away from the ride's end... she's got enough juice to fire it up again. Just gloves, all good. Just vest, all good. Both? Nope. Bike will run without issue, but once you kill the ignition, that's it.

edit: Hey! 300 posts. Do I get a cookie or something?