Something you Cali 1400 owners won�t want to hear.....

[LowRyter]

Never have understood the "cyber bullying" thing, among kids or otherwise.

How can anyone possibly be "cyber bullied"?    I mean, real physical bullying, I can see how that works; someone actually stands in front of you and threatens to hurt you, and you have to deal with it or not go to school, get off the playground, give up your lunch, whatever.    That can be real.

But "CYBER" bullying?   All you have to do is swipe the screen, or hit the little ONOFF switch, and the threat is gone.   Never have to see it again.    It happens in a fake world, which disappears in a "poof" if you decide to .... What kind of masochistic addict would go back INTO a place that upsets and hurts them?

Seems simple to me.   But I'm sure it's actually very complicated and there's some very good reason why people HAVE to be driven to depression and pain by "cyber bullying".    I don't need to know what it is, though.

And now, back to dry 1400 swingarm bearings, something which is just about as weird in the "WHY?" department but apparently a lot easier to solve!

Lannis

you bully me all the time and make me cry. 

[Lannis]

you bully me all the time and make me cry. 

Well, grease your bearings then like I told you and that'll make it all better .... 

[Bonaventure]

How hard is this job to DIY on a Stelvio?  Mine has 2500 miles at the moment, neither the bags nor their mount frames are attached.   Is there a particular brand of marine grease that is preferred?

[sidmonsters]

Pete, Peter, Kev, et. al.  you speak the Truth!  And thank you for it, as I don't do a ton of wrenching and don't look at "a single track vehicle subject to the laws of physics" as a good place to learn!  I brought my 2013 Stelvio in for tire changes, service, and rerouting the cables to put on Rox risers.  AND, I told the service manager to address this very issue and get them greased appropriately. Actually, I didn't tell him.  I asked him (my fault, but again, he's the pro, right? )  Not concerned about price of the service, just wanted it done.  And he went out of his way to tell me I was overstating the problem, he hadn't seen that, yada yada yada.  So next service, if I survive, it shall be done.  With Pete Roper as my witness.

Steve
PS--my morning cappuccino lovingly provided by my wife damn near exited my nostrils when I read the nun's chuff statement.  And even the smooth end of a pineapple looks unpleasant, says I.

[guzzisteve]

In the 70's & 80's service manual states to take apart, clean, grease, adjust at 25K. Long enough not to harm anything but to bed in. All the same, nothing has changed. Bikes need service. Maybe I'm used to their stuff needing everything done, that's how it's always been.

[Kev m]

In the 70's & 80's service manual states to take apart, clean, grease, adjust at 25K. Long enough not to harm anything but to bed in. All the same, nothing has changed. Bikes need service. Maybe I'm used to their stuff needing everything done, that's how it's always been.

1970 was almost 1/2 a CENTURY ago.

There are a lot of things that aren't the same as they were then.

[Lannis]

How hard is this job to DIY on a Stelvio?  Mine has 2500 miles at the moment, neither the bags nor their mount frames are attached.   Is there a particular brand of marine grease that is preferred?

Look through the archives, "Leafman60" did a nice step-by-step photo essay on exactly how to do it.

I used that to do it on my '09, and added a few pictures explaining some other things you might find.

I used "Lucas" brand "high tack" red sticky grease on everything that looked like it needed greasing, 'cause it makes sense to grease the drive shaft splines too while you're in there.

Not hard, just step by step, in the right order.   ONE thing that I had to ask about to be sure was popping the drive shaft out of the transmission.   It LOOKS like there's an "E-clip" holding it in, in which case you'd break something if you just "drove" it out, but it's not, it's a spring clip and it's meant to "pop" in and out with a soft hammer.

Lannis

[pete roper]

No need to remove the driveshaft to simply grease the bearings, you’ll need to if they need replacing but if they just need re-packing you can leave it in place.

Pete

[Lannis]

No need to remove the driveshaft to simply grease the bearings, you�ll need to if they need replacing but if they just need re-packing you can leave it in place.

Pete

Yes, and Leafman is very clear about that in his DIY series; it's more on the philosophy of "Well, as long as you're in here this far .... these things use grease too ...."

Lannis

[pete roper]

Agreed, and I know I’m going to be stoned as a heretic for this, but I think people worry far too much about driveshaft splines on the newer models. Since they all went to the finer 20 spline set-up wear, even on dry splines, is far less evident. I’m not suggesting that they shouldn’t be lubricated, simply that you don’t have to wring your hands and tear your hair if you don’t do it immediately!

Certainly with the CARC bikes it is pretty much imperative that you go in early to grease up the swingarm and linkage bearings and this is an ideal time to put some lubricant on the splines but pulling the shaft off the output shaft of the gearbox can be tricky, especially for a novice who may not be accurate with a hammer and could damage the gearbox casing whaling around down there! Once the swingarm is off just grab a can of chain lube and give the inside of the front driveshaft yoke a good hit with it. It’s ideal for a job like this being very thin on application so it penetrates up the splines but then the volatiles evaporate leaving a nice deposit of greasy, clingy stuff behind on the spines. If it is felt furthe periodic lubrication is require? Simply peel the boot back and hit it again with the chain lube. The other end, which is the end that will see the most work, requires dropping off the bevelbox to do but that’s a ten minute task so no biggie.

Pete

[Ncdan]

I don�t want to beat a dead horse on the topic but woukd like to offer this follow up.
First left me say that when Pete offers information on our Guzzis one should take heed as I did. I�ve got an appointment with my mechanic to Check my swingarm bearings as to risk wait for a tire change could lead to disaster and I�m not willing to ruin a good trip due to a catastrophic melt down when it could have prevented. This being acknowledged, I decided to attempt to get some accountability from the dealer where my bike was bought new in 2015.
I contacted the dealership and spoke with the female shop manager and advised her of the confirmed swing arm bearing failures due to little or no grease from the factor. I was immediately advised there had been zero issues with this since the beginning on the 1400 series California models. I requested that she still contact the factory rep and confront him with this information and she agreed to do so.
She called me today and advised at this time there has been no documentation of a dealer filing a claim on failed swing arm bearing. I ask her if in her opinion I should check mine on my 2015. She said no she did not advise or recommend it. I said ok, so if the bearings fail on my bike that you sold new, then your dealership will fix it and foot the bill. Boy did her attitude change! She did a walk back and advised me that call would be up to the factory rep. I laughed and advised her that decision could  be made by a jury. I thanked her for her time.
When I check mine I�ll offer a follow up with pictures.
Thanks Pete for the valuable information!

[elvisboy77]

I'd be a lot more concerned if it was a wheel bearing, to be honest. 

Yeah, the swingarm bearings need a little grease but I have a hard time translating that into my 2016 Eldorado is going to explode.  I mean, seriously.

I agree with Mr. Roper that this is not the way it should be done, but is it any surprise?  There is a long history of Guzzi grease omissions, yet they run for many miles in spite of that.

Seems like when my next tire change is due I may check it at that point.  But I sure has heck am not going to panic.

[Kev m]

I am not defending the factory, but realistically The majority of buyers will never suffer the failure.

With the exception of the real mileage guys most bikes will change hands multiple times before those bearings wear enough to be an issue. An then someone will bite the bullet or scrap the bike.

But perhaps that's what the factory was also thinking about those flat tappet motors too.

I guess I'm saying that if I had and cared about a bike with the issue, I'd make it a point to get it done by the next tire. But that's about as urgent as I'd make it.

[Kiwi_Roy]

After greasing the suspension on a new to me Griso I'm convinced the only grease in there is the shipping grease that came from the bearing factory.
I can't speak to the 1400 but the Griso setup is very simple. not nearly as difficult as the VII Sport I had earlier.

[pete roper]

Just a small selection.

Now those are all CARC bikes but the set up used and the bearings are identical on the Cali 14. This, along with finding the bearings on the 2015 Cali wreck in a poor state is what made me post the heads up for owners. What people choose to do about it is up to them but I personally, if I owned a Cali, would be pulling the swingarm earlier rather than later and fixing it.

I wouldn't be carping to my dealer, it's not his/her fault and things aren't going to change at the factory so just make a decision and act on it. Grease the bearings, sell the bike, or risk them failing. It's no skin off my nose any which way.

Pete

[Tom]

Thanks for the pix.  Those bearings are "ugly". 

[Ncdan]

Just a small selection.

Now those are all CARC bikes but the set up used and the bearings are identical on the Cali 14. This, along with finding the bearings on the 2015 Cali wreck in a poor state is what made me post the heads up for owners. What people choose to do about it is up to them but I personally, if I owned a Cali, would be pulling the swingarm earlier rather than later and fixing it.

I wouldn't be carping to my dealer, it's not his/her fault and things aren't going to change at the factory so just make a decision and act on it. Grease the bearings, sell the bike, or risk them failing. It's no skin off my nose any which way.

Pete

No disrespect to your opinion not to hold the dealership accountable, Pete but I must differ with you there. The dealerships have a much louder voice to hold the manufacture accountable for some of these elementary  oversights such as failing to put grease in places  where even a apprentice mechanic woukd know to do or speedometers stop working in less than ten thousand miles as a norm.
This is the very reason Moto Guzzi has failed to grow any more in the US than it has. The majority of us don’t have the mechanical knowledge, tools or time or money to fix some on these ridiculous factory screw ups ourselves and have to pay these dealerships 100 + bucks an hour to fix issues that should not be broken. If they are going to sell them then they need to stand behind them when obvious issues of factory negligent are present or drop the line, as many do.

[Kev m]

It's a good point. If you don't hold someone accountable, they may never be motivated to change their behavior.

[guzzisteve]

If they haven't changed buy now, it's not going to happen. AND they don't like mericans bitching at them.

[JohninVT]

Just a small selection.

Now those are all CARC bikes but the set up used and the bearings are identical on the Cali 14. This, along with finding the bearings on the 2015 Cali wreck in a poor state is what made me post the heads up for owners. What people choose to do about it is up to them but I personally, if I owned a Cali, would be pulling the swingarm earlier rather than later and fixing it.

I wouldn't be carping to my dealer, it's not his/her fault and things aren't going to change at the factory so just make a decision and act on it. Grease the bearings, sell the bike, or risk them failing. It's no skin off my nose any which way.

Pete

Are you sure the bike you pulled those bearings from wasn't ridden off a dock into the Pacific...and it sat in the salt water for a year or so?   

[pete roper]

No disrespect to your opinion not to hold the dealership accountable, Pete but I must differ with you there. The dealerships have a much louder voice to hold the manufacture accountable for some of these elementary  oversights such as failing to put grease in places  where even a apprentice mechanic woukd know to do or speedometers stop working in less than ten thousand miles as a norm.
This is the very reason Moto Guzzi has failed to grow any more in the US than it has. The majority of us don�t have the mechanical knowledge, tools or time or money to fix some on these ridiculous factory screw ups ourselves and have to pay these dealerships 100 + bucks an hour to fix issues that should not be broken. If they are going to sell them then they need to stand behind them when obvious issues of factory negligent are present or drop the line, as many do.

Dan? See my story about the Bellagio steering head bearings above, (Note V7’s suffer from this same lack of grease there.). The factory wonks don’t care and deny all responsibility. If something like this fails it’s not their fault because we shouldn’t expect their workers to do their jobs properly!

Who knows what Piaggio factory workers are paid but I’ll bet it’s not a lot. Historically they have delivered the best bikes when they are proud of what they’re doing, at least in my experience.

Pete

[Ncdan]

Dan? See my story about the Bellagio steering head bearings above, (Note V7�s suffer from this same lack of grease there.). The factory wonks don�t care and deny all responsibility. If something like this fails it�s not their fault because we shouldn�t expect their workers to do their jobs properly!

Who knows what Piaggio factory workers are paid but I�ll bet it�s not a lot. Historically they have delivered the best bikes when they are proud of what they�re doing, at least in my experience.

Pete
[/quot
e]
You are right Pete and it�s a shame it�s that way. I guess I�m one of those who love the moto guzzi enough to just deal with some of the factories incompetence. Keep the warnings and updates coming to us as the experience from some of you guys is our saving grace.

[John A]

Once the problem is brought into the cold light of the day, it's the owners responsibility to ensure the machine is maintained to his or hers standard. Helps if you can do it yourself , otherwise pay to have it done correctly, if you care about the machine you own and operate.

[Lannis]

If they haven't changed buy now, it's not going to happen. AND they don't like mericans bitching at them.

Well, you know, if you're going to make a product that you claim is usable, and you take people's money for it, and it turns out to be not usable for the purpose sold without modifications .... you're gonna HEAR some of that bitching whether you like it or not ... I suspect they don't like Germans complaining either, but I'll bet they get it ....

Lannis

[Ncdan]

Well, you know, if you're going to make a product that you claim is usable, and you take people's money for it, and it turns out to be not usable for the purpose sold without modifications .... you're gonna HEAR some of that bitching whether you like it or not ... I suspect they don't like Germans complaining either, but I'll bet they get it ....

Lannis

Exactly!! And thank you for a common sense point of view:)

[Kev m]

Absolutely...


And crap, people around here have dated call me an apologist for the Moco, but I got nothing on some of you guys!

[pete roper]

Not saying it’s good, or right Kev, but it’s the way it is. Do you think I enjoy telling people their bikes have problems? Am I doing lines of Bolivian marching powder off hookers tits off fixing this shit?

No, I’m not, but I’m realistic enough to see that we essentially have a choice. We either accept that ‘Fringe Dwellers’ like Guzzi, (Especially under current management!) are going to have a sub-culture where these problems come to light and just roll with it. Or, alternatively, we believe that *Other* manufacturers don’t have similar problems, (Even though they do!) and lie down to be dragged into the anodyne zombie land of *Safe*, (Even though it isn’t) ‘Honda’ ownership.

I’m a very conservative person but there is no way I want to be herded into that horrible little box!

Pete

[Kev m]

Not saying it’s good, or right Kev, but it’s the way it is. Do you think I enjoy telling people their bikes have problems? Am I doing lines of Bolivian marching powder off hookers tits off fixing this shit?

No, I’m not, but I’m realistic enough to see that we essentially have a choice. We either accept that ‘Fringe Dwellers’ like Guzzi, (Especially under current management!) are going to have a sub-culture where these problems come to light and just roll with it. Or, alternatively, we believe that *Other* manufacturers don’t have similar problems, (Even though they do!) and lie down to be dragged into the anodyne zombie land of *Safe*, (Even though it isn’t) ‘Honda’ ownership.

I’m a very conservative person but there is no way I want to be herded into that horrible little box!

Pete

No Pete, other major manufacturers DO NOT have THESE problems!

* Forgetting/not bothering to grease chassis bearings.

* Inability to design/manufacture hydraulic lifters that don't eat camshafts after what 3 tries?

* Similar inability to design 4V heads whose valve trains don't eat themselves. Oh wait, they figure it out and then don't recall but silently continue to sell the defective ones.

* Use materials in fuel systems that are incompatible WITH THE FUELS?

* DESIGN charging systems that start regulation at 15V

No that's a whole world beyond the OCCASIONAL design or component mistake made by any of the other major manufacturers. Oh, and the others issue recalls IF they do make a mistake. Well except maybe BMW.

[lucian]

Once the problem is brought into the cold light of the day, it's the owners responsibility to ensure the machine is maintained to his or hers standard. Helps if you can do it yourself , otherwise pay to have it done correctly, if you care about the machine you own and operate.

 :1:  I'm with Pete on this one.  Would you rather own a low maintenance boring bike or an exotic beauty that needs grease now and then?  Lot's of other brands have problems and launch products with sub standard components. Nothing new here.  A Guzzi may not be for everyone, but if you can change a  tire on a Schwinn 10 speed, you can probably handle anything they throw at you.

[pete roper]

No Pete, other major manufacturers DO NOT have THESE problems!

* Forgetting/not bothering to grease chassis bearings.

yes they do!

* Inability to design/manufacture hydraulic lifters that don't eat camshafts after what 3 tries?

Ahuge and sad failure. I�ll give you that 

* Similar inability to design 4V heads whose valve trains don't eat themselves. Oh wait, they figure it out and then don't recall but silently continue to sell the defective ones.

As I�ve said many times I believe that the engine was originally designed for rollers but bean counters got involved. Doesn�t help their reputation though....

* Use materials in fuel systems that are incompatible WITH THE FUELS?

Ducati and others also had problems with swelling tanks. It�s not only a �Guzzi� issue.

* DESIGN charging systems that start regulation at 15V

No, they just have ones that die constantly from cooking their stators!

No that's a whole world beyond the OCCASIONAL design or component mistake made by any of the other major manufacturers. Oh, and the others issue recalls IF they do make a mistake. Well except maybe BMW.

Kev, don�t make me an apologist for Piaggio. For all that they�ve kept the marque alive I believe they have turned it into a shadow of what it was. To describe their problems as unique is fatuous though. All of the major manufacturers are on a race to the bottom, it�s the way society makes things work.

Pete