Rollerization not necessary?

[Litre1000]

The local dealer has a 2009 Stelvio in stock. It has a little over 6000 miles on the clock. I asked if it was rollerized. Dealer said no. We spoke about the issue and they said it wasn’t necessary. That the failure rate was low. And that it would be covered under warranty if it did happen. I’ve seen local dealers give up the Guzzi brand lately. Slow sales I imagine. If this shop decides to give up the brand, then my ability to get the kit covered under warranty greatly diminishes. I’m thinking, no kit, no sale. My research shows rollerization is a necessity. I should probably just walk away from this dealer and this sale. They seem to not appreciate the situation regarding this tappet issue.


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[Chuck in Indiana]

I should probably just walk away from this dealer and this sale. They seem to not appreciate the situation regarding this tappet issue.

They either don't appreciate it or don't care. Run, don't walk.

[molly]

They are in denial, ignorant of the facts or dishonest walk away for sure.

[pebra]

The local dealer has a 2009 Stelvio in stock. It has a little over 6000 miles on the clock. I asked if it was rollerized. Dealer said no. We spoke about the issue and they said it wasn�t necessary. That the failure rate was low. And that it would be covered under warranty if it did happen. I�ve seen local dealers give up the Guzzi brand lately. Slow sales I imagine. If this shop decides to give up the brand, then my ability to get the kit covered under warranty greatly diminishes. I�m thinking, no kit, no sale. My research shows rollerization is a necessity. I should probably just walk away from this dealer and this sale. They seem to not appreciate the situation regarding this tappet issue.


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You've drawn the sensible conclusion  -  there's no need for you to take the risk.

[John A]

Yep, just ease on out the door. That one could become a nightmare unless you get it at a substantial discount.

[Paul Brooking]

Offer them the sale price if they rollerise it, else the sale price minus the cost of the kit (say $2k?) if they don’t.  If they want the sale they may come round else run like hell[emoji6]


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[Paul Brooking]

PS exceptional bike once the Rollerization is completed.


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[markw]

Perhaps you could mention who this "Dealer" is , then others will also know who not to go near with a barge pole !

[Lannis]

Perhaps you could mention who this "Dealer" is , then others will also know who not to go near with a barge pole !

I would think that ID of this dealer, or at least his location, would be a "Justified" dealer comment and would not come under the category of "bashing".   

It's not a matter of "ignorance" on their part.   They don't know that what they're saying is true at all, they're just saying it to sell the bike, and we all know it's NOT true ....

Lannis

[pete roper]

Alas this is not the case. All flat tappet bikes are going to fail. It’s not a matter of if, just when.

[egschade]

If you feel capable of doing the rollerization (with forum help) by yourself or a different mechanic then I would go with Paul's suggestion to make an offer that discounts the cost of the upgrade. They'll probably say no but at least they have your offer. You never know - they may get desperate in a couple months...

[oldbike54]

 No , let's not mention the dealer. You are welcome to do so by PM , but they may very well be acting out of ignorance .

 

 Dusty

[guzzisteve]

They know about it, they just want you to spend the money on the fix not them. Plenty of Stelvio's out there for sale.

[Unkept]

They either don't appreciate it or don't care. Run, don't walk.

 :1:

I'd keep looking elsewhere.

[pyoungbl]

Hummm, a bike built in '09 is now almost 10 years old.  There is a good chance the flatties are already failing and that swarf is now doing its best to contaminate the rest of the engine.  I'd want to inspect the tappets for wear before making a purchase.  In my case the rollerization WAS NOT covered by Guzzi so I do not think you can count on that as a certainty.....parti cularly given the age of the machine.  At some point Guzzi is just going to say 'too bad, Charlie'.  In essence the bike is totaled because the cost of repair is greater than the retail value of the machine.

Peter Y.

[Lannis]

They know about it, they just want you to spend the money on the fix not them. Plenty of Stelvio's out there for sale.

"We spoke about the issue and they said it wasn�t necessary. That the failure rate was low. And that it would be covered under warranty if it did happen."

This isn't ignorance.   This is an attempt to defraud a potential customer.   If they were "ignorant" of it, they wouldn't make false positive statements about "failure rate", "necessary", and "warranty".

These people are lying weasels and they deserve to be out of business.

Lannis

[not-fishing]

Alas this is not the case. All flat tappet bikes are going to fail. It�s not a matter of if, just when.

This is what I always remember when looking at an 8v that is older than 2013.

[TimmyTheHog]

Rollerized it or you will be cursing on the side of the road wishing you did...

[Wayne Orwig]

"We spoke about the issue and they said it wasn�t necessary. That the failure rate was low. And that it would be covered under warranty if it did happen."
This isn't ignorance.   This is an attempt to defraud a potential customer.   If they were "ignorant" of it, they wouldn't make false positive statements about "failure rate", "necessary", and "warranty".
These people are lying weasels and they deserve to be out of business.

True.
It is a 2009 long out of warranty. And even if the parts are covered, the labor is not. Which is a good bit on a 2009 which includes pulling the heads to shim the valve springs.
And unless you park it, or only ride it 50 miles a year, it will eventually fail. So it IS necessary. Been there, done that.

So yea, if you believe the dealer you are out over $1000 if all goes well, maybe much more if it does not.

[Litre1000]

True.
It is a 2009 long out of warranty. And even if the parts are covered, the labor is not. Which is a good bit on a 2009 which includes pulling the heads to shim the valve springs.
And unless you park it, or only ride it 50 miles a year, it will eventually fail. So it IS necessary. Been there, done that.

So yea, if you believe the dealer you are out over $1000 if all goes well, maybe much more if it does not.

Being a professional mechanic , I realize the seriousness of the situation. In 1984 I bought a new Interceptor 1000. The cams went flat in a couple of months. HONDA  covered everything. I still have that bike today. I can do the work. I just feel the kit should come with the bike...
Or, they should install the kit to show their intent on being a legit Moto Guzzi dealer.


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[Wayne Orwig]

Being a professional mechanic , I realize the seriousness of the situation. In 1984 I bought a new Interceptor 1000. The cams went flat in a couple of months. HONDA  covered everything. I still have that bike today. I can do the work. I just feel the kit should come with the bike...
Or, they should install the kit to show their intent on being a legit Moto Guzzi dealer.

Odd.
I have a 1983 Honda XL600. The cam of course failed, in 1985. Honda refused to cover anything out of warranty, and I had to do it all.
A 1988 Kawasaki had an electronic ignition issue. It damaged the starter and starter system. Big $$$. They cover it 100% seven years later.
My 2004 EV, Moto Guzzi covered the cams and such 100%, parts and labor years later, even though it did not fail.
My 2009 Stelvio, Moto Guzzi covered parts only, but only after it started to fail.

Odd how sometimes the money counters do, and sometimes they don't.

[pete roper]

I don’t know how much they are asking for it but it’s probably too much.

I was seriously, really seriously, thinking about this for our upcoming trip to North America.

https://www.af1racingaustin.com/used-inventory/2012-moto-guzzi-stelvio-1200-1

If the link doesn’t work just go to the AF1 site and check out the used inventory. It’s fairly priced, it’s a roller model, and it’s loaded with goodies including a cruise control!

Go nuts! We’re hiring a car for the trip.

Pete

[LowRyter]

assclowns

[dave1068]

I am a former 2009 Stelvio owner, and never had that problem that I know of, I had about 16k miles on it and the dealer I traded it in, still has it but they dont draw a big MG crowd.

I would think going with a used Triumph Tiger 1200 Explorer might be a safer and more reliable bet if you want an ADV bike w/ character

[Rough Edge racing]

  What models and years were affected by cam problems?

[pete roper]

Any of the Nuovo Hi-Cam 8V’s made prior to mid 2012. That includes Stelvios, Grisos, Norges and Sports. There are NO exceptions. The problem isn’t ‘Rare’ it is, unfortunately, universal.

[pete roper]

I am a former 2009 Stelvio owner, and never had that problem that I know of, I had about 16k miles on it and the dealer I traded it in, still has it but they dont draw a big MG crowd.

I would think going with a used Triumph Tiger 1200 Explorer might be a safer and more reliable bet if you want an ADV bike w/ character

That’s the relevant sentence. You did have the problem Dave, you just didn’t know about it.

Pete

[dave1068]

Hey Pete,

Probably, but im not sure as im sure others are what the indicators are? Does engine sound different, are there strange noises, clicking, etc.  Really too bad that if MG knew about it dating back to 2010 and did nothing, I know some dealers dont even know about this but they should, Not sure if MG was proactive and notified all their dealers of this-like a good dealer is or rolled the dice and hoped it would be sporadic. Speaks volumes about their integrity of a major brand or lack there of...just my .02

[Green1000S]

If a Guzzi dealer has THIS LITTLE knowledge of the bikes they sell and service.....

RUN........ (far)....

[pete roper]

One of the big problems has always been that until things get really quite bad performance and overall running are seemingly unaffected. After six years of rollerising anything that comes through the shop I�ve learnt to detect some early tell-tales but for the layman you�d probably not notice until they start to rattle and by then it�s far too late.

For some reason I never saw early failures in the shop. I knew they were happening, even the then dealer in Canberra was experiencing them but they were sticking the same mineral 10/40 they used in Ford Falcons into them so I was unsurprised! Sadly it appeared that in reality it was just luck and, I think, the sort of usage they were getting. As soon as I saw a failed one that I�d serviced from new I started inspecting every one that came into the shop and to my horror found that my assumptions had been completely wrong and the failure rate was 100%! That was six years ago now and since that time I�ve dedicated a lot of time and effort to trying to get the word out. It�s a tough business as even now there are a host of people who have never heard of the problem and unfortunately a lot of shops that are either in denial or don�t care.

Thing is inspecting the tappets requires the cambox to be removed, a simple, fifteen minute task. Sadly, for whatever reason it seems that many shops are either reluctant or incapable of performing this very simple procedure and worse yet lie to the customer saying they have and their was either �No damage� or �Acceptable wear�. There is no such thing as �Acceptable wear!�

Anything with flats should be inspected and rollerised. No exceptions. To suggest otherwise is to choose to live in a fools paradise.