85 LM to 1000S Seat Question

[wirespokes]

This is all MG Mark's fault. 

If he hadn't decided to keep his 85LM/1000S conversion instead of selling it to me, I wouldn't be going through this right now. It's horrible. I'm obsessed and all I can think about is the project. 

So when Mark decided to keep his bike, the solution was obvious! Build my own. Of course. First step - find a project LM. CL offered a project LM1000 in NY so I got it. Didn't look too bad, mostly missing the fairing, side panels, seat, coils and distributor cover. Except for the coils, didn't need that stuff anyway - so I bought it.

Looks like it possibly might have met Sandy back in 2012 but it's mostly ok. For a bike sitting since 1991 it's actually in pretty fair shape - no rust in the tank, clean straight forks, gauges work perfectly, bar switches look good and work, and even the exhaust system is solid, even though the plating is coming off. I wasn't planning keeping it anyway. When I pulled the valve covers, everything looked like new in there, not even any sludge. No water in the oil. Carbs aren't corroded, mostly they were hanging up due to the sludge stuck to the needles, which cleaned up fine.

The only casualty was the clutch. Totally frozen. I tried riding in first gear on and off the throttle with clutch pulled in to no avail. It wouldn't free up. When I pulled the trans and could get at everything, it still wasn't easy pulling it all apart. Luckily the splines were all good, and even the flywheel cleaned up ok. With another set of plates it now works like it should.

So I think I dodged the bullet on that one.

So on to my question about the seat. I'd like to know how the 1000S seat fastens down. I'm guessing the front has two 'pins' that slide into 'hooks' on the frame like the LM. The rear of the LM has a hood type guillotine/slotted pin arrangement released by a button on the left side. If anyone could post some pix I'd be grateful. I may wind up building my own fiberglass pan a la Corbin for a V7S/1000S look, if I don't find a 1000S seat.

[guzzi ride]

To the best of my knowledge the 1000s seat is unique to this model ONLY. Flat metal tabs on frame slide on to slots on seat pan.
A pin locks the seat on the left side. I'll try to post some pics soon.

[jas67]

I'll be watching for updates on this project.   I love the looks of the 1000S.   I'm glad to see you're starting with a 1000 Le Mans, so, at least you'll have the performance to match, vs. starting with a T3, G5, SP, etc.

[blackcat]

Finding a 1000S will not be easy and if they ever appear on eBay with a buy it now. Don't hesitate.

Yes, tabs on frame, slots in seat and an angle piece that slides into a lock/slot which will be the hard part to fabricate.

[jas67]

Finding a 1000S will not be easy and if they ever appear on eBay with a buy it now. Don't hesitate.

They've nearly reached V7 Sport prices.

[Turin]

Finding a 1000S Seat is going to be an issue. You can use the rear fender and seat from a V7 sport ( which is what the 1000S emulates). Personally, I hate cutting frames.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

They've nearly reached V7 Sport prices.

I think an important word was left out of blackkat's response:
Finding a 1000S seat will not be easy and if they ever appear on eBay with a buy it now. Don't hesitate.

[wirespokes]

If I wasn't starting out with the LM, I'd probably copy the V7 Sport with the tricky flip fender and all that. Not cheap stuff, but at least it's available.

I kind of figured the 1000S seat was S C A R C E. I don't even know where to find one new. But 25 years ago I worked at a fiberglass shop making gun stocks, so learned how to work with the stuff and mold making. Since even the V7 Sport stuff (seat) is fairly expensive, my thought is to use a regular T3 etc rear fender just like the 1000S did, and make a custom pan to fit.

The 1000S was essentially a retro built from the LM1000. At least the first few years as far as I can tell. And from looking at pictures it appears both seats fastened the same in the front. I'll bet the rear is the same, except located differently. I'd just like to see how it was done so I don't have to re-invent the wheel. On the LM1000, there's a notched latching post about 2/3 of the way back, in the middle. A bracket supports the catch and a button on the left side releases it.

The gas tank is most likely a one-off as well, but I'm not sure I want to go through the trouble of converting and mounting and earlier one. At least not right now. I kind of like the LM1000 tank, but might possibly eliminate the filler lid, smooth out the top and install a flush mount filler. But that's a future project and can wait till later.

It's funny, but reading the Guzzi history books, the 1000S was made out to be a waste of time. It was a poor imitation of the real thing. At least that's the idea I got. So it's interesting knowing they're very desirable and sought after. I know there are a lot of things about the 1000S I like. It seems like a more useable bike than the V7S. The way this all started was the 87 LM I picked up two or three years ago. I'm big on aesthetics and that model never grabbed me. I never would have bought it had it not been a really great deal. But after getting it all sorted out and riding a while, I've fallen head over heels for the thing. Unlike some other bikes I thought were ugly at first, it's stayed the ugly gooseling.

And then MGMark offered his 85LM-to-1000S for sale and I was all for it. Here was one already done! And then it wasn't for sale, now here I am. It's the platform I love, so why not convert it to the other one I love looking at? At first the goal was the V7S, but logically, the 1000S makes the most sense. So here we are.

I thought I had pictures from when I first got it a few months ago but can't locate them now. Dumb computer! I'll have to search a little harder or get the SO to find them for me. She's good at that.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

A couple of illustrations that show how the seat attaches. Totally different than a Le Mans 1000.

The "L" shaped bracket at 20A is where the lock catches on the seat.
https://www.stein-dinse.biz/bilder/auto/breite_800/303038343002.gif


Note the four tabs on top of the frame rails, the seat hooks into these. #5 is the seat lock and you can see there's a tube on the frame it goes into.
https://www.stein-dinse.biz/bilder/auto/breite_800/303038343025.gif


Also, check out this thread https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=97359.0 in the "Bike Builds, Rebuilds & Restorations" Only section. This photo from that thread shows the seat mounting pretty well. Perhaps Dave can be persuaded to supply a few more photos.

[blackcat]

You can see the lock, basically a spring loaded device with a pin that engages the angle piece attached to the seat. I'm out of town or I'd post a detailed photo of the lock. Personally, I would figure out another way to attach the new seat.

I did snag a seat off eBay about two years ago with a buy it now for $350 which I considered a deal. Basically new except for the a few wear marks on the underside, but they do occasionally show up on eBay. Not a comfortable seat, mine will just sit on a shelf as the modified one on the bike is much better.

[wirespokes]

Thanks, Charlie! I get it.

I was wondering about that tube poking out ahead of the shock mount - glad you identified it for me.

The LM1000 has the front seat bracket hooks but not the rear ones. Also, my frame rails angle up, so I'll cut them, machine a bit of tubing to the inside frame diameter, insert, then weld the rear section back on. Since I believe it's a little long I'll need to locate some passenger grab handles to get the measurement right. 

[12SCraig]

I'll be watching for updates on this project.   I love the looks of the 1000S.   I'm glad to see you're starting with a 1000 Le Mans, so, at least you'll have the performance to match, vs. starting with a T3, G5, SP, etc.

Agree wholeheartedly!

 

[Tom]

1000S seat and mounting set-up is unique for the line.  You want pix of the seat pan and mounting tabs?  I just figured out how the whole thing works on the bike.  Different type of set-up but works.  It would be easier redoing the LM seat than the other way around.

[Turin]

Wirespoke wrote

The gas tank is most likely a one-off as well, but I'm not sure I want to go through the trouble of converting and mounting and earlier one. At least not right now. I kind of like the LM1000 tank, but might possibly eliminate the filler lid, smooth out the top and install a flush mount filler. But that's a future project and can wait till later.

That's what we did. Used the top of a beat up ducati tank, a little cut and welding later... Voila!

[wirespokes]

Thanks for the offer, Tom, but I do understand now how the 1000S seat attaches. I didn't get a seat with my LM, so am really starting out from scratch. The LM 1000 seat wouldn't work for me anyway, since I'm eliminating the duck tail swoopy look.
This is what it looked like exactly two months ago when I picked it up in Blauvelt New York. Friends had picked it up the week before off of Long Island for me.

Turin - That looks really good! Very well done! Did you weld in the top over the existing sunken section of the Guzzi tank?



simple poems by famous poets

[Turin]

we pulled and raised what we could and filled the rest.

[Denis]

It's also worth noting that 1000S prices didn't really go down much or for that long. In the couple of years after they were discontinued I saw 2 or 3 for sale for $5-7k but most I remember seeing were $7-10k and for the most part they have consistently remained at $10k or more.
They were instant classics, even though I don't like that cliche.

[Tom]

Guess I shouldn't tell you guys I got another one.

[Turin]

Yes you should, with pictures! 

[Tom]

Working on it.    A little for now.  Frick & Frack.  Frack came to the house about a month ago.  Like any identical twin very similar to each other.

[wirespokes]

Two? You've got two 1000Ss???

There were only a little over 2,000 of them built over the 4 year production run. And we didn't get them here in the states till the last two years - and the last year only 48 were built.

And you managed to have two?? I don't recall having ever seen one - but then again, I'm new to Guzzis and might not have recognized what I was looking at. But I'm sure I would have liked it!

When I decide to fix up a bike I try to first determine if the upgrade translates into higher end value. With this one, it was lust - I just had to have it. Nice to know that even a good copy would be desirable - not that I intend to sell it.

[Tom]

#52 & #37. 

[blackcat]

#52 & #37.

Wait, weren't you trying to sell the first (junk) one a few years back and now you have two!

[Tom]

Sale didn't go through.  I enjoyed riding it too much, otherwise it would have gone to the Bay area.  Maybe later.

[wirespokes]

What was the asking price?

[Tom]

South of 8k.

[guzzimatic]

There are a few bikes that chance have given me the opportunity to test ride,a green frame 1000S is one I will never forget! It was at the Ilinois Guzzi rally when they were new,early '90s. That bike spoke to me,she whispered, ride me hard,I was built for it! There were two downsides,it was over 10,000 dollars and we got caught in the rain on our way back to the rally...

[wirespokes]

I envy you guys who've been around guzzis that long. On second thought, I'm sure you had to deal with a lot over the years - it's like a GF with baggage you put up with because it's a lot more UP than DOWN. I'll bet there were a lot of guys who didn't put up with it, sold the goose and got a Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki...

Anyway, I sure know what you mean, guzzimatic.That's the way I feel about the 87 LM - but I'm into it way less than 10K and willing to make mods/upgrades doing the work myself. Back in the 90s I had no money - when I got the R90, I didn't know what I'd do if it tipped over and needed a new valve cover. So there was no way I was getting a new 1000S.

Tom - $8K for a project bike! Ok - that gives me an idea what these things are worth.

I always knew I had expensive tastes. Again, this proves it!

[Tom]

Neither are project bikes.  Close to oem and both rideable.   

[wirespokes]

Ok, Tom. Rub it in!