Rollerisation of the 8V.

[katanaman]

sweet as, cant ask for more than that, thanks heaps for your assistance once again. and yes big tank, ABS and twin Lambda. I have one of Xltra maps at the moment, is the map your talking about specific to post rollerisation?

[pete roper]

You'll have to ask John. If it's a lambda off map it is very relevant as there are significant differences in the camming between the flat and roller cams. With lambda on, when it's running closed loop, it will try and trim around the differences. If the lambda is off it can't.

Pete

[Xlratr]

sweet as, cant ask for more than that, thanks heaps for your assistance once again. and yes big tank, ABS and twin Lambda. I have one of Xltra maps at the moment, is the map your talking about specific to post rollerisation?

The 33s map is the latest one. It's for a 2Lambda Roller. If you want to use it just pm me your email.

[katanaman]

Thanks, PM sent. BTW i am running a MIVV pipe without DB killer. would the map your talking about be appropriate or will i require a different map?

[pete roper]

Any 8V will run much better with the dBk installed.

Pete

[Xlratr]

Thanks, PM sent. BTW i am running a MIVV pipe without DB killer. would the map your talking about be appropriate or will i require a different map?

Got it. I'll mail you the map a little later. Got to go to work.
I only experimented briefly with no db killer. I found running without to be too loud for me so I never tried to adapt the map for that. My brief impression was that it didn't run any better, just slightly leaner on the AFR readout. But as I say, I didn't do any exhaustive (! :-) testing.
My compromise solution was to make my own db killer by welding the appropriate size ring around a shorter piece of stainless tube. It's still quite enough in town but has a nice sound under acceleration. And no negative effect on performance or AFR.

[steffen]

My 2010 Griso with 20.000 km on the clock was due for service. I asked my mec to tear of the cams for inspection, although he thought it was a waste of time and money, because my valves was on spec and sounding fine.
This is what I saw




Now photos are send to the factory, hopefully they will accept the claim, but soon I'll have the rollers on.

I'd like to thank those of you, that insisted, that the flat tappets was doomed, Pete, Molly, Pauldaytona, Beetle to name a few... 

Just wanna add, that Moto Guzzi accepted my claim and paid for parts. Now I'm back rollerized and rolling.

My mec told me, that usually the danish importer had turned down claims for the wear, my tappets showed. But as I could send my mec pictures of other bikes with the same wear as mine, that had tappets replaced on the factorys account, there was no problem for my bike.
Thanks again.

[pete roper]

The importer doesn't make the call. The factory does. If anyone is being told by an importer their claim is being knocked back without refference to the factory......well.. ....arse!

[steffen]

Now I know what I'll have my mec say to the importer 

[River Rat]

I'm a newbie to this forum, looking at purchasing a 2011-12 Stelvio 8V NTX, from what I have read on here and other forums the main issue of concern is the subject of this thread.  It seems that the info put out by Piaggio in regard to those motors supposedly with rollers (Stelvio AC : After AC12596 03/12/2012) is at best hit and miss.  Does anyone have any more sure way of telling for the 2012 bikes other than removal of a rocker cover?
I love the passion you guys have for these machines
Cheers, John

[pete roper]

Nope, but pulling a rocker cover is a five minute job on a Stelvio, just don't  tug away at the plug caps, lever them up from underneath through the air tunnel above the exhaust manifold with a long screwdriver.

pete

[River Rat]

Thanks Pete
So once the lid is off what's the easiest way to tell if it has rollers?  It seems from the photos of your dismantle job that there's no way to look at the cam without removing the cam box, or am I missing something? 
I am familiar with valve adjustments on 2V Ducatis but this arrangement seems so much more complicated, albeit easier to adjust clearances!!, usually a weekend job on those (for me at least)
Thanks, John

[pete roper]

There are numerous threads where pictures have been posted showing how to identify if the bike has flats or rollers. Next time at my PC I'll post them up, again.....

As for inspecting the cams and tappets? Yes, it takes half an hour to get a cambox out if you stop for a beer and pick your nose for a while. Complexity doesn't come into it although familiarity might. No you can't see the cams or tappets without taking the cambox off the head. It's not a big job. video is on the Ghetto.

Pete

[beetle]

Allow me:

[smdl]

Here's another good shot of roller tappets:





These are factory rollers on my 2012 Stelvio, engine number 12998.

Cheers,
Shaun

[River Rat]

thanks guys
Sorry Pete, I'm not too good with the phone, shoulda been less of a slackarse and fired up the PC last night I guess  !!!   
great pics Shaun  , good to see them side by side
cheers, John

[pete roper]

Thanks Mark.

vid of cambox removal here.

http://www.grisoghetto.com/t1987-roper-tech-tappet-inspection-on-flattie-8v

Pete

[Scottv8]

Hello all,

just about to rollerise my 2008 Stelvio after a successful warranty claim.

Does anyone have any comment on the idea of not fitting the inlet valve spring shims please?

It seems like alot of extra work just to fit the four very thin shims and wondered if its a stage that can be ignored without any damage ensuing to the engine in future use?

Thank you in advance for your valued input.

[pete roper]

Do you not think that perhaps they were put in there for a reason?

For crying out loud if you're going to do the bloody job at least do it properly!

[Scottv8]

Alright, calm down, was merely asking a question.....jesus.

I just dont understand what such a thin shim is likely to achieve, but if it offends you to answer then please dont 

[Demar]

Not sure how thick the shims are but they might be there for wear protection and not height adjustment. Maybe they are there to keep the hard spring from digging into the softer aluminum (assuming the springs would be resting on aluminum).

[Scottv8]

not fitted from new, just in the roller conversion so dont think its a wear thing, but dont really know 

[Wayne Orwig]

My guess is that the slightly heavier rollers are a little more likely to float at higher revs. The shim may keep them from floating as badly.
So you can limit your RPM to under 6k, and not worry. But that would be hard to do.

[pete roper]

My guess is that the slightly heavier rollers are a little more likely to float at higher revs. The shim may keep them from floating as badly.
So you can limit your RPM to under 6k, and not worry. But that would be hard to do.

This. The fact that they are only fitted on the inlets would make one believe that the extra mass of the roller tappet alone wasn't sufficient to cause a problem but the extra mass of the larger inlet valves might make the situation marginal.

Given the fact that spring surge and the flat tappets actually leaving the face of the cam at certain points and engine speeds being a likely contributing factor to the flat tappet fiasco and the roller system suffering no such issues it would seem foolish to try and second guess the engineers who produced a bullet proof fix for the original, poorly engineered, problem.

Pete

[pauldaytona]

All newer engines had them fitted. With the same on the outlets. So there they  are less usefull. Else they had then fitted at the rollerset too.
 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn mobiel

[jacksonracingcomau]

All newer engines had them fitted. With the same on the outlets. So there they  are less usefull. Else they had then fitted at the rollerset too.
 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn mobiel

Maybe the engineers who did bullet proof fix know best, time will tell. Shame if"fixing" kits missed out on two shims.

[Scottv8]

It seems that we will ever know for sure.

I will go the extra mile and stick them in, its just such a bloody hassle getting all the sodding tank and plastics off 

Although after having the engine out 3 times now to sort the real main seal out, im pretty good at it, dont stop it being a pain though 

Ok, out into the cold I go, let the stripping commence.......the bike that is, not me 

[pete roper]

Maybe the engineers who did bullet proof fix know best, time will tell. Shame if"fixing" kits missed out.

How much time do you want Martin?

Five years minimum since the flat tappet format was abandoned and the original, (In my opinion.) roller system was adopted there have been ZERO documented failures.

Keep on hating on the fact the world has left you behind. I wish you well in your misery.

[Scottv8]

Jesus Pete, chill out, what is wrong with you........

This is why I don't do clubs and rarely do forums, people need to lighten up a bit 

[jacksonracingcomau]

Jesus Pete, chill out, what is wrong with you........

This is why I don't do clubs and rarely do forums, people need to lighten up a bit 

I edited my post for clarity, don't think Pete read post prior to mine. Paul said exhaust springs shimmed too on production engines. Maybe worth doing that too, if engineers did get it right ?

No dog in any fight, Pete's having a bad day, forgive him.