Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Seagondollar on July 12, 2010, 02:06:22 PM
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From Autoblog, info about the Motus engine: 160 HP half a Corvette engine designed by Pratt & Miller. But why did they decide to go with a chain drive?
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/12/motus-motorcycles-v4-engine-impresses-puts-out-over-160-horsepo/
Video included with dyno run.
(NGC icon added) R59
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Nice video that dyno pull was great .
I wish them luck.
Of course the basic lay out aint new.
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Thats really Cool! I love v 4's, I like where they mention that the V is finally facing in the correct direction! Yeah Baby! ;-T thanks for sharing, Rick
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From Autoblog, info about the Motus engine: 160 HP half a Corvette engine designed by Pratt & Miller. But why did they decide to go with a chain drive?
Look at how far that motor is slanted forward. It would need to be canted back quite a bit or would take an impressive u-joint or bevel box to make that a shaft drive - any of which would change the whole design dramatically. And they would be giving up a big chunk of rear-wheel power to do it. Needless to say this doesn't look like it's aimed for the high-mileage crowd.
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"Large" displacement V4 without a balance shaft, used as a stressed member of the chassis? Hmmm. Looks like the flywheel and clutch will spin the same direction as the engine too - might have the torque reaction of a Guzzi or Airhead BMW only worse. Should give it "character", but will the target market like that?
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My first thought was..
(http://www.xtupload.com/new/image-BD1C_4C3BBC0E.jpg) (http://www.xtupload.com/new/share-BD1C_4C3BBC0E.html)
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(http://www.motusmotorcycles.com/images/motus_prototype01.JPG?utm_source=Motus+Updates&utm_campaign=a337076558-Motus_Updates_v51_011_24_2010&utm_medium=email)
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(http://gallery.mailchimp.com/80c5f8f2088bf98bbbb1cd00b/images/motus_prototype_02.jpg?utm_source=Motus+Updates&utm_campaign=a337076558-Motus_Updates_v51_011_24_2010&utm_medium=email)
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If Aprilia hadn't blown off the VA10/DM10, MG would've had this same layout 6 years ago to run alongside with the traditional lump.
The VA10/DM10 was a V4? ??? ;)
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Supposed to be made over in AL, maybe worth a ride over to see in person, if allowable.
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If Aprilia hadn't blown off the VA10/DM10, MG would've had this same layout 6 years ago to run alongside with the traditional lump.
The VA10/DM10 was a V4? ??? ;)
Uh, no, you got me there. The VA10 had twin exhausts on each cylinder and externally looks similar and I wound up deceiving myself. The VA10 was canted downward in front and was 75˚ like the Motus. Kinda looked the same.
This would have been a little closer to the Motus design. ;)
(http://s1.postimage.org/1pc03e7us/V4_Guzzi_prototype.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1pc03e7us/)
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As much as I love this Motus concept, they really should have taken the time to design a valve train that didn't use push rods. Also take a look at the GM alternator behind the engine. I think they should find something a little lighter than a car alternator.
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I'm not much of a fan of the way they have the engine mounted to the frame. In a bike like this the engine should function as a stressed member of the frame. In these pictures it appears that the engine is just hanging below the main frame and would provide only minor stiffness to the chassis. Granted it looks pretty cool, but functionally I question the design.
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As much as I love this Motus concept, they really should have taken the time to design a valve train that didn't use push rods. Also take a look at the GM alternator behind the engine. I think they should find something a little lighter than a car alternator.
What's so wrong with pushrods? Yes, it's "old tech", but so is the LS7 Corvette engine it's based on. I don't hear any complaints about the LS7 not getting the job done. Given the type of bike it's propelling and where it's being built (the heart of NASCAR country), pushrods and all the off-the-shelf parts Motus has to choose from seems like a smart move to me.
The same basic Nippon Denso unit that is on CARC Guzzis was used on the Suzuki Samurai & Swift, Chevy Sprint and forklift trucks, tractors and more. The Motus unit looks to be only slightly (if any) larger.
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That exhaust is just wrong. It looks like nephew-art.
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Also take a look at the GM alternator behind the engine. I think they should find something a little lighter than a car alternator.
No, the car alternator was an integral part of the design process: one of the biggest complaints touring riders have is inadequate output of their motorcycle's electrical systems. Motorcycles also tend to have not only brand specific, but model specific alternators (ie, $$$.)
By using a common car alternator in the design, the Motus folks can keep production costs down, provide FAR more output than most competing touring bike designs, have an integrated VR that is less failure-prone than what we see in recent motorcycle design history [by virtue of largely corrosion-immune connections btw the VR & alternator] and to top it off, your argument that the alternator is too heavy is completely spurious, since the physics is all known, unchanging stuff: it will take more or less the same mass of materials to provide the same output, regardless of form factor. Copper, laminated soft iron & aluminum pretty much have the same density, no matter where they're used in a car or bike alternator... ;)
I feel bad for the Motus folks only because in these days & times, it makes almost no sense whatsoever to attempt a start-up new motorcycle brand. Victory made it because they've got the whole Polaris company backing them, and went for the low-hanging fruit [cruisers, the biggest selling segment.]
Touring motorcycles are just too narrow a segment to jump into & try to duke it out w/ the big players like Honda, Harley and now Victory, along w/ any other manufacturer who feels like they've got an adequate power unit to build a tourer around. I wish'em luck, but my forecast isn't sanguine... ::)
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I found a couple of more Motus prototype pictures. Nice looking swingarm.
(http://thekneeslider.com/images/2010/11/motus-prototype-2.jpg)
(http://thekneeslider.com/images/2010/11/motus-prototype-3.jpg)
(http://thekneeslider.com/images/2010/11/motus-prototype-5.jpg)
(http://thekneeslider.com/images/2010/11/motus-prototype-7.jpg)
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More on Motus:
http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/motus-mst-dyno-video/ (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/motus-mst-dyno-video/)
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More on Motus:
http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/motus-mst-dyno-video/ (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/motus-mst-dyno-video/)
I want one, ?Who do I hafta kill to get one?
Tom
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There are so many good reasons to build a pushrod engine, especially for a street bike.
But judging from the comments there, and here, marketing isn't one of them. I think folks need to track down Ilmor's reasons for building the "Mercedes" Indy special, besides the rulebook loophole.
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Dyno:
http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2011/02/11/motus-mst-motorcycle-on-the-dyno-and-in-the-cold/#more-14265
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when I was a kid I saw a fiat that had a v4?
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Lancia. Now owned by Fiat (the four-wheel equivalent of Piaggio…)
Ford also had a V4, from its German branch. Saab used that engine when their two-stroke needed to be replaced because of emissions laws.
cr
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Here's the latest on the Motus guys.
http://thekneeslider.com/
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That's really matured. I find I have more interest than at first. Thanks.
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Damn fools - What are they thinking? Those rocker covers will be right in front of the rider's knees! They'll never sell any of those things!
::) :o **C ;)
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Wow! ;-T That looks brilliant. I wish them well.
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Interesting clutch location. Looks like the Motus is coming together nicely.
Bob
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Love the mechanicals. I don't care for the styling, but if Honda can sell ugly, then this shoould be fine.
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Couple of pics. I like it. It's just naked enough.
Wonder where they're going to sell'em....service'em...and so on....
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/rdbandkab/motus-mst-rr1.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/rdbandkab/motus-mst-rf.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/rdbandkab/motus-will-al.jpg)
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I liked the concept from the get go reminded me of my ST
but now the whole package wow I really like how it looks and some of the engineering that went into it
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I'm undecided about the bodywork. I do like the rear-side view because the engine and frame are shown. The windshield looks tiny. The fairings are probably not finalized. They are carbon fiber now. I doubt they will be when the bike is in production.
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I wonder if you shoe horn one of those American V4s in a Guzzi and get the benefit of shaft drive. ~;
I once saw a Subaru in a Guzzi. It looked about 10ft long.
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I am wondering why they are using a chain? Otherwise I like it.
How much will it cost???
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Fabulous looking motorcycle!! ;-T 8) - and I wish them the best. :) 8) ;-T
However, I hope they have A LOT of money - like about $100M** :o :o :o :o :o - - because that's about what it takes these days to get a new motorcycle into main stream production and into the market place!! :) 8) ;-T ** Kenny Dreer of Norton fame personally told me that, after he burned through >$10M and then sold all the rights to Stuart Gardner in the UK...
The motorcycle business is not for the faint of heart....and very, VERY deep pockets are required. Look at the monies spent by Norton - Indian - Buell - Triumph (Hinckley) and Victory.
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This is a really sweet bike. I have been anxiously awaiting for this to come into production. I for one can't wait to swing a leg over one and take it for a spin. Not that I would ever replace any of my Guzzis, but I am in the market for a long distance tourer for two up riding and this fits the bill perfectly!
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So far I like their mentality of "relative" simplicity and design. This motor is fabulous to my thinking and the look of the bike is quite conservative. It tells me they are serious about selling these "form follows function" bikes. Shafty would be nice for this bike! I hope to see a sport bike follow. This is a nice set-up for that.
-Kevin
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I like it.
But, it needs some crash bars in a bad way! A no-speed tipover could strand a rider if those exhaust pipes get crushed or broken...
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I am wondering why they are using a chain? Otherwise I like it.
How much will it cost???
$$$, I'm sure... But chains are more common than shafts... Not as common as belts, but that's only because every HD has had a belt for nearly the past two decades...
Looks like the transmission is sideways. Pretty cool.. Guzzi should do it on a sportsbike...
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I am wondering why they are using a chain? Otherwise I like it.
How much will it cost???
The chain final drive is necessary due to the angle of the motor in the frame. Moto Guzzi had a similar concept bike about twelve years ago that sadly never came to fruition.
Skippy
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Finally an Amercan MC that does not look like it was force fed hamburgers from the age of one or beaten seven times to tomorrow with the ugly stick! I love it!!! ;D
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Damn fools - What are they thinking? Those rocker covers will be right in front of the rider's knees! They'll never sell any of those things!
::) :o **C ;)
and it looks like the front of the engine is canted lower about 15 degress.........but the tranny is transverse w/chain drive so still different than the new liquid cooled Cali.
It's a nice looking bike. It doesn't look like it would be all that expensive to build if Motus wasn't a start up. Is this thing like 2.5 - 30.0 L displacement?
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Is this thing like 2.5 - 30.0 L displacement?
1645cc (100ci) liquid-cooled 90º V4; dual OHV; pushrod; chain-driven single cam; hydraulic lifters
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I was bit sceptical at first, but they're really starting to impress me now. Lots of work to do before customer bikes are ready (Jay Leno probably has been on the list since the beginning! :)), but it's nice to see a USA made bike that isn't just another v-twin.
Some good rational thinking going on with the design IMO. This from the Kneeslider article says volumes:
"Brian also explained how the bike was designed with maintenance in mind, the six speed transmission is a cassette design that can be easily extracted from the left while the wet, multiplate clutch is directly under the cover on the right, no major disassembly necessary as might be expected when a V4 is placed with a longitudinal crank orientation."
No crabbing the Motus for clutch or transmission work! ;D
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http://motusmotorcycles.com/
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I like the looks of this bike! My understanding is that they will be sold in very limited quantities for a hefty price, though... :(
Bruce
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Looks like a Norge with 2 more cylinders :o ;D ;-T :BEER:
The old Bill ;D
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Looks like a Norge with 2 more cylinders :o ;D ;-T :BEER:
The old Bill ;D
Two more cylinders and I'll bet twice the price, too! ;D
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Me no like chains. :P
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http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=44012.0
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Me no like chains. :P
Me neither. Messy, stretchy things...
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Me no like chains. :P
Me neither. Messy, stretchy things...
The reason I got into Guzzis. Except for that )&^%* timing chain, well...
And I don't see this view as being good looking (from the side is OK)
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2011/03/06-1299617062.jpg)
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More on Motus in Motorcycle Daily: http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/03/md-first-look-motus-mst-sport-tourer/ (http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/03/md-first-look-motus-mst-sport-tourer/)
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I'm sure it won't ship like this, but DAMN listen to that sound at the startup...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UxLXjjGH4U
I would be all in if money was no object. This bike above all others. Too bad the $30k rumors seem like they are true.
I've emailed them and requested a visit when I am in the area for work in June-July. They replied in under and hour and granted my look-see as long as they were around (and not testing). Very much looking forward to the visit.
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I really like this bike. The engine, the body and it is a Sport Tourer...Something I could actually use. But 161hp?! :o
I don't think I would trust me or my skills with that much!!
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I like it! A few weeks ago we were talking about the Cali 1400 and its engine that was canted down in front. Looks like they did the same thing with this motor.
If the weight is indeed 550 lbs that would 2.5 times the HP as the EV with the same weight.
Pete
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I really like this bike. The engine, the body and it is a Sport Tourer...Something I could actually use. But 161hp?! :o
I don't think I would trust me or my skills with that much!!
;D I think If I had one of these I would very rapidly become intimately acquainted with our local boy's in the black and white cars. There is also the very real possibility I would spend time in one of our fine medical establishments, and I don't heal as fast as I used to, but I sure like the looks and sound of that thing.
;-T Dave
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I really like this bike. The engine, the body and it is a Sport Tourer...Something I could actually use. But 161hp?! :o
I don't think I would trust me or my skills with that much!!
Sure you could. It only produces those numbers when it is reved way up. Your a mature rider and you probably have good control over that right hand. But why bother when you could buy a Norge and have under 100 HP.
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Listen to this and enjoy!
http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2011/03/10/motus-on-the-road-in-daytona/#more-14551
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WOW that bike sounds fantastic
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A naked version? Sure sounds right.
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kind of lurched forward when he clicked'er into gear.....
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Music to my ears. ;-T
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Sure is a lot of talk/hype on this bike.
Personally I'm not too crazy about it's looks.
But I sincerely hope they do well. Especially with their direct injection setup. Let's hope they make it into production.
I was never a big fan of the Buell line but I loved the fact that he and his bikes were out there. The sport needs the mavericks willing to make fundamental leaps that the big guys can't. With luck Eric B will be back in the mainstream soon. Plus these guys...Only good things can come from such passionate personalities and their ideas and products
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Motorcycledaily.com said it best: "When I hear the phrase “new American motorcycle,” I usually roll my eyes and groan—how many chrome-laden, raked-out customs does the world really need? But when I saw pictures of the new Motus MST I knew there would be no eye-rolling here..."
My sentiments exactly.
Just like Erik getting his groove back with EBR (Erik Buell Racing), I hope Motus finds a market here as well. Both of these companies' initial offerings are very high-priced, but with success of these models, more reasonably-priced models will roll out and we'll finally have a good variety of American bikes to choose from, and to be proud of. Hopefully...
This country needs its own line of sport, naked, touring/sport-touring, etc bikes, instead of the usual, cliche cruisers. *fingers crossed*
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For me, that sound can hide a lot of imperfections.
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It's a prototype. They are not even being called pre-production yet.
Long way to go for a finished product. I think one could cut them some slack considering the time frame they were able to pull off a functioning proto.
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For me, that sound can hide a lot of imperfections.
What if it was perfect below its skin... how then would you feel?
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They seem to put something out every few days. Smart marketing. Anyhow... here's another below the first.
http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2011/03/10/motus-on-the-road-in-daytona/#more-14551
-Kevin
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Seemed that when he grabbed a handful the bike didn't jump as I would think one with 1,600cc and 160hp would.
Anyway, something caught my eye over at Kneeslider: http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2010/08/02/honda-mugen-mrv-1000/
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I like most of what I have seen and heard of the Motus bikes. The only thing I don't like is the way the headers angle forward before sweeping back...plus they are pretty exposed to damage. I suspect an aftermarket full system could fix that by sweeping the headers immediately rearward and tighter in w/ some heat guards.
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Seemed that when he grabbed a handful the bike didn't jump as I would think one with 1,600cc and 160hp would
I noticed that too. I guess it is just a prototype. Maybe he had it in the wrong gear.
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Getta Guzzi.. ;D
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I did notice (twice) the apparent lack of giddyup in each video when a handful was taken. It seemed certainly no more than my V11 Lemans and it's got about 90 ponies. Hard to tell but I like what they're doing.
-Kevin
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Seemed that when he grabbed a handful the bike didn't jump as I would think one with 1,600cc and 160hp would.
Anyway, something caught my eye over at Kneeslider: http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2010/08/02/honda-mugen-mrv-1000/
NICE.. ;-T ;-T ;-T
(http://thekneeslider.com/images/2010/08/mugen-mrv-1000.jpg)
(http://thekneeslider.com/images/2010/08/mugen-mrv-1000-2.jpg)
(http://thekneeslider.com/images/2010/08/mugen-mrv-1000-engine-2.jpg)
---
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This time on the track. Listen to this thing. Guzzi times two! ;-T
I love this concept. http://www.youtube.com/motusmotorcycles
-Kevin
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This time on the track. Listen to this thing. Guzzi times two! ;-T
I love this concept. http://www.youtube.com/motusmotorcycles
-Kevin
No Lie ;-T ;-T
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OUTRAGEOUS !!!! Now if they can make it with belt or shaft drive. ;-T :BEER:
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Well, that's some gearhead porn awright.. ;D ;-T
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I wouldn't consider it with a belt. Real sport bikes have chains. Shaft drive would be a very expensive venture for a startup company.
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Well, that's some gearhead porn awright.. ;D ;-T
Sweet! ;-T
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I wouldn't consider it with a belt. Real sport bikes have chains. Shaft drive would be a very expensive venture for a startup company.
[/quote
At least 1 of them is supposed to be a sport/tourer, like a Norge, BMW RT, etc.
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I was following the development of the Motus from a distance. No way I can get one, $$$, but hoping they can make a success out of it.
I was thinking a proper sport touring bike should have a shaft or a belt. That was one of the criteria that pulled me onto a Guzzi. Got too many bikes with chains now!
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This bike is right up my alley...high HP, sport touring, exclusive.
The one thing that I have NOT seen is a full RPM run under load. Most of the videos they are short shifting the bike. This makes me wonder if they have the GDI sorted out at max RPM.
I'm sure this will all be sorted out soon enough, but I want to see a high speed full RPM pass!
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That thing looks and sounds awesome. Thanks
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Yeah, the video is appealing. Love that sound too. I looked at one of these a year or so ago at Daytona. It struck me as a rather crude, cobbled-together effort by someone that needed more development cash.
I hope for and expect a little more refinement. New bike efforts like this have a steep hill to climb for success and viability.
As far as final drives, Im not as negative about chains these days. Great improvements have been made in chain technology that reduce maintenance and extend life. Shafts seem so heavy and complicated and Im am biased against them due to the many problems with BMW's. (I know the CARC has been more reliable). Belt drive is my favorite but I do not know if a belt would work on this type of machine. Belt drives are simple, light weight, efficient and require the least amount of maintenance.
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Yeah, the video is appealing. Love that sound too. I looked at one of these a year or so ago at Daytona. It struck me as a rather crude, cobbled-together effort by someone that needed more development cash.
Im am biased against them due to the many problems with BMW's. (I know the CARC has been more reliable). Belt drive is my favorite but I do not know if a belt would work on this type of machine. Belt drives are simple, light weight, efficient and require the least amount of maintenance.
Just because you had a bad experience w/BMW shafties, don't put the rest in the same category. Most shaft drives are trouble free. ;)
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Buell had some success with belts on sport bikes!
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I just can't get that excited about the Motus. The ST1300 is such a wonderful machine that the ONLY reason I could see choosing a Motus over one would be because I had some sort of anti-Honda sentiment(which I don't). The ST has close to 120hp at the rear wheel, stupendous cruising range, shaft drive, wonderful and PROVEN V4 power and is a very popular choice amount riders who do thousand mile days. If the ST isn't fast enough, you can always opt for the VFR1200 which ought to be fast enough for anyone with a functioning adrenal gland.
More choice is always good, I suppose.
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I wouldn't consider it with a belt. Real sport bikes have chains. Shaft drive would be a very expensive venture for a startup company.
+1
Belt drive is 3rd in line for me.
I don't mind a chain and have never understood the aversion to modern chains. The 630 chain on my Triumph never needed adjusting and lasted quite a long time...
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can't see a belt being able to handle the power of that thing.
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I just can't get that excited about the Motus. The ST1300 is such a wonderful machine that the ONLY reason I could see choosing a Motus over one would be because I had some sort of anti-Honda sentiment(which I don't). The ST has close to 120hp at the rear wheel, stupendous cruising range, shaft drive, wonderful and PROVEN V4 power and is a very popular choice amount riders who do thousand mile days. If the ST isn't fast enough, you can always opt for the VFR1200 which ought to be fast enough for anyone with a functioning adrenal gland.
More choice is always good, I suppose.
Sounds like you found your perfect machine, though I do agree with you that more choices are always a good thing. Here is my feeling:
1. American made (kinda cool)
2. American muscle engine (still pushrod older technology w/new technology incorporated)
3. V90 with that sound!
4. The V is in the bike the right way.
5. Water-cooled and still looks great.
6. I might ad I'm not a 4 cylinder guy, but this just does it for me.
This is just the engine, now for the bike:
1. NOT TRANSFORMER
2. A bike that has nice lines and is actually quite conservative. Even has GIVI bags mounted... nice!
3. I like their marketing in giving us bits and pieces as they go along. Nothing shallow about what they've shown thus far. I can take the chain.
To me, it seems like an American company that's as interesting and soulful as an Italian bike company.
Again.. my take to this point.
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I just can't get that excited about the Motus. The ST1300 is such a wonderful machine that the ONLY reason I could see choosing a Motus over one would be because I had some sort of anti-Honda sentiment(which I don't). The ST has close to 120hp at the rear wheel, stupendous cruising range, shaft drive, wonderful and PROVEN V4 power and is a very popular choice amount riders who do thousand mile days. If the ST isn't fast enough, you can always opt for the VFR1200 which ought to be fast enough for anyone with a functioning adrenal gland.
More choice is always good, I suppose.
Sounds like you found your perfect machine, though I do agree with you that more choices are always a good thing. Here is my feeling:
1. American made (kinda cool)
2. American muscle engine (still pushrod older technology w/new technology incorporated)
3. V90 with that sound!
4. The V is in the bike the right way.
5. Water-cooled and still looks great.
6. I might ad I'm not a 4 cylinder guy, but this just does it for me.
This is just the engine, now for the bike:
1. NOT TRANSFORMER
2. A bike that has nice lines and is actually quite conservative. Even has GIVI bags mounted... nice!
3. I like their marketing in giving us bits and pieces as they go along. Nothing shallow about what they've shown thus far. I can take the chain.
To me, it seems like an American company that's as interesting and soulful as an Italian bike company.
Again.. my take to this point.
My perfect machine would be a 90hp 1200 Sport with a Griso front end, alloy tank and Dunstall half fairing ;D
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It's quite possible there's a Guzzi connection here, as well. Sydney Conn, who used to ride Guzzis (involved in the top speed trials a few years back) is from Alabama,and was involved in Hot Air Balloons. The founder of Motus is said to be fromthe hot air balloon industry. Sydney, you out there?
Don Ivey
'83 1000SP
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Just came back from Moto Nexus and they had a out of town visitor this week ;-T A Motus stopped by looking for directions to the olhins facility in Hendersonville NC (2 blocks away ;D from dealership) Earl said it was a sweet sounding machine. Would not let anyone take any pictures >:( The bike had 30,000 miles on it and was on a shake down cruise. California to Chicago, Memphis, to little old Hendersonville, then off to Corbin California to work on the seat. Seems that parent factory is reallu doing their homework on this new bike ;-T Oh if anyone is interested a new green with a tan seat Griso is available at Moto-Nexus ;-T
The old Bill ;D
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I would really like a chance to ride one of these. The sport touring version looks sweet. A simple clean design that looks both aggressive and purposeful. I wish them well with this project, but I can't say I am overly optimistic they can make a go of it. This has to be a very expensive bike to build in small quantity, and there is a lot of competition. Also, the sport touring market segment isn't that big a piece of the pie.
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The Motus is an interesting concept; but it's not what I want in a motorcycle. It has two cylinders too many, it's water cooled and it it has a chain drive. I've always preferred V-twins over any other type of engine configuration, and I really dislike chain drive. But that's just me. If I wanted a liquid cooled V four; I'd probably get an ST-1100. At least it's got a shaft drive.
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It sure seems like they're doing things right. I'm curious about their price-point though.
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It sure seems like they're doing things right. I'm curious about their price-point though.
There are *plenty* of people that the Motus is pocket change. Whether there are enough of them that are interested in exotic motorcycles to keep the company afloat is the question..
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The Motus is an interesting concept; but it's not what I want in a motorcycle. It has two cylinders too many, it's water cooled and it it has a chain drive. I've always preferred V-twins over any other type of engine configuration, and I really dislike chain drive. But that's just me. If I wanted a liquid cooled V four; I'd probably get an ST-1100. At least it's got a shaft drive.
Agreed totally, so when the time came and the need arose, I got an ST 1300.
First Japanese bike, ever... :-[
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The Motus is an interesting concept; but it's not what I want in a motorcycle. It has two cylinders too many, it's water cooled and it it has a chain drive. I've always preferred V-twins over any other type of engine configuration, and I really dislike chain drive. But that's just me. If I wanted a liquid cooled V four; I'd probably get an ST-1100. At least it's got a shaft drive.
With sound like that, I think I could put up with a V4 and chain easily enough. I want a bike with character and in my book that engine has loads of (dare I say Guzzi) character.
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Motus does pique my interest. I follow them on Facebook.
I just noticed on their web page that they also plan on selling a crate motor. Something to think about. ;-T ;D
-AJ
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Looks great, sounds great, and no issues with me even with a chain drive. The big question however, is the $$ PRICE $$. :o I have heard rumors of $25K-30K to start ??? but that remains to be seen. :o :o That might be a tad spendy for the average rider (IMHO). Overall, still, fabulous design and concept and I wish them much success going forward!
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Great bike ;-T - love the 90V V4 - no chain for me - been there - belt would haul me in ;-T
Ciao
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Not my cup of tea at all. It's got two cylinders too many, it's got a chain final drive and it's liquid cooled. Three things that I don't want.
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rumors of $25K-30K to start ??? but that remains to be seen. :o :o That might be a tad spendy for the average rider (IMHO). Overall, still, fabulous design and concept and I wish them much success going forward!
"tad spendy" ??
At $25k, the bike will only be picked up by a few BMW defectors. :-\
Hopefully that will be enough to keep them in business, though, because I'm with you on the design/concept part... ;-T
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rumors of $25K-30K to start ??? but that remains to be seen. :o :o That might be a tad spendy for the average rider (IMHO). Overall, still, fabulous design and concept and I wish them much success going forward!
"tad spendy" ??
At $25k, the bike will only be picked up by a few BMW defectors. :-\
Hopefully that will be enough to keep them in business, though, because I'm with you on the design/concept part... ;-T
At 25K they can count me out and $15k I might be interested. I really like the fairing with no lowers. That is the way the Norge should be ;D
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Certainly sounds nice.
As someone earlier said; they are not winding it up at all. Did hear at the start of the video the guy giving an instruction to "come in after one lap so they can do a fluids check". Could be the first run up after a major something being done on it.
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October Cycle World has an article on the Motus too. ;-T
I don't need/want a MC with that much grunt, but I sure like the looks of this Motus ! 8)
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Certainly, it is a nice looking motorcycle, :) (especially the motor!!), ;-T ::) but what is the price point for this beauty? :) Did I miss that in the article? ??? ???
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Exactly where Moto Guzzi should be if they were in the new millenium..the motor is what Guzzi shoulda done 11 years ago... that thing rocks and once the company gets established maybe we can afford one.. the only thing I don't like about it is the chain.. the motor layout is perfect for a shaft..
Pushrods baby! I want one.
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If you have to ask, you can't afford it.
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The Motus test bike stopped by Moto Nexus this spring seeking directions to the Ohlins shop here in Hendersonville NC. When he finished his business at Ohlins was heading to CA to the Corbin Shop. Would not let anyone take pictures at that time. The guy's at the shop said the bike sounded awesome ;-T ;-T
The old Bill ;D
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This is an exciting bike to me. Guzzi X 2= Motus
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There's a been a lot of discussion over on the sport-touring.net site about this bike. Most seem to think with the limited production, the bike will most likely be $30,000 plus. I hope not. I really like the potential of the bike and would seriously consider it if it came in closer to $20,000. But that's most likely wishful dreaming
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I've heard a Motus, and sir your Ducati, Moto Guzzi, Harley are NOT a Motus. :-* :P
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Interesting they put a 1600 cc engine into a bike that only weighs 526 lbs! My rule is the bike can't be any bigger than what I can upright if she tips over!
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I was thinking 30-35k, but that seems high, unless they're motivated solely by greed. I'm sure there are a bunch of idiots that would pay top dollar for a bike with a prototype engine, but most people would rather spend less on the tried&true. Realistically it should be 18-20k, if they wanna be competitive with the established brands. I don't see this as being just another boutique bike for the elite, hopefully their entrepreneurial vision isn't that limited...
(+1) Agreed - The price point needs to be competitive ($20K-$25K max) with current bikes on that genre.
It's like that most recent Indian for $30K-$35K! :o :o ::) ::) ??? - why would someone buy one of those when they can get a HD Road King / Road Glide / Street Glide / etc. for about $18K-22K - and with HD's EXTENSIVE dealer network / parts / warranty support - which, IMHO - is great!
"Oh...I am on a long ride and I am currently in Billings, Montana and my new MOTUS has just died...someone help me please!" ;D :D ;) :)
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And why would you build a V4 like that and not put a shaft drive on it?? I know, unsprung weight and all the other stuff that makes a chain "better".
If it was a sport bike I'd understand, but, not one advertised as touring.
Oh well.
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Chain, belt, shaft... all subjective. Anyhow... with those kind of numbers and the potential down the road might explain a chain. Anyhow... from what I understand, Motus has been going across the country on these bikes to both promote them and put some miles on them this summer. I don't see how this engine would self-destruct in such short time. It's not like it's cutting-edge technology, but by the sounds similar to that of the Vette. My gut feeling is this company wants to go somewhere (move forward) and is doing everything it should to promote and test the designs. I am a fan of what they are doing personally and this engine makes complete sense in its design to me. What I like most is its sound. I bet it feels good under your body as well. Nothing like a 90 to me.
-Kevin
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And why would you build a V4 like that and not put a shaft drive on it?? I know, unsprung weight and all the other stuff that makes a chain "better".
If it was a sport bike I'd understand, but, not one advertised as touring.
Oh well.
+1 Shaft drive wouldn't mean a whit as far as acceleration is concerned because that motor should have ooodles of torque. ;-T
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"Oh...I am on a long ride and I am currently in Billings, Montana and my new MOTUS has just died...someone help me please!" ;D :D ;) :)
That's what the NMOC is for. ;)
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I think you guys are too high with the price point. To be competitive, the bike can't cost more than the new Ducati Multistrada, which is at the top of the heap in its class (in quality, features, and price). That is: $16,000 for the base model; $20,000 for the deluxe model with Ohlins bling and hard cases. If Motus can't pull that off, they might as well pack it in, now.
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A very exciting bike; I wish them much success. The headpipes appear to be a bit vulnerable, perhaps?
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"Oh...I am on a long ride and I am currently in Billings, Montana and my new MOTUS has just died...someone help me please!" ;D :D ;) :)
That's what the NMOC is for. ;)
NMOC - National Motus Owners Club I presume?!? :o :o :o ::) ::) ??? ???
Not like the BMW Anonymous, or H.O.G..... or even the MGNOC for that matter - sorry! ;D :D ;) :)
You are still stuck in Billings, Montana..(with winter approaching....), and the closest other MOTUS owner is in...(for example) Chicago! (Oooops!) ;D :D ;) :)
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They have a steep hill to climb but I admire them and hope it works out !
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They have a steep hill to climb but I admire them and hope it works out !
Agreed (+1) :) The reality is that it is just very, VERY difficult to build ANY new motorcycle these days without A LOT (read >$100M) of money! (just ask Kenny Dreer of Norton America...)
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I think the $30,000 plus in about where this will be marketed. It's a limited production bike, their economy of scale alone dictates it's going to require a high price point. And as to the question as why someone would want to pay this when they could have that, novelty. Anyone can go out a by a Dival and ride up to there local bike night, but if your able to get your hands on a Motos, you will absolutely be the bell of the ball! Some people will pay a lot for that kind of thing, most wont, but Motos thinks there are enough to make it work.
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I think the $30,000 plus in about where this will be marketed. It's a limited production bike, there economy of scale alone it going to require a high price point. And as to the question as why someone would want to pay this when they could have that, novelty. Anyone can go out a by a Dival and ride up to there local bike night, but if your able to get your hands on a Motos, you will absolutely be the bell of the ball! Some people will pay a lot for that kind of thing, most wont, but Motos thinks there are enough to make it work.
+1
-AJ
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I think the $30,000 plus in about where this will be marketed. It's a limited production bike, their economy of scale alone dictates it's going to require a high price point. And as to the question as why someone would want to pay this when they could have that, novelty. Anyone can go out a by a Dival and ride up to there local bike night, but if your able to get your hands on a Motos, you will absolutely be the bell of the ball! Some people will pay a lot for that kind of thing, most wont, but Motos thinks there are enough to make it work.
Or ride up on a Piaggio MP3(<$10K) and you'll get the same attention . ;) ;D
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The same issue of Motorcyclist also has an article on the rebirth of Hesketh by Alan "I never met a motorcycle I didn't like" Cathcart. I do not know of any Hesketh Owners Clubs (though there would be alot of kids signing up for a Vampire Riders Club) that exist in the US and I have only seen two Heskeths in person (they only manufactured 139 total). I did see the Motus at Daytona this year and I believe that they intend to sell in the $25K to $30K range. Too much for my tastes.
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Or ride up on a Piaggio MP3(<$10K) and you'll get the same attention . ;) ;D
[/quote]
Or, ride up on any nice Moto Guzzi or other vintage bike and get the same reaction... :)
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I have to disagree with you there. Nice Guzzi's and vintages do get a lot of attention. But by comparison they are common place, compared to a brand new made in US v4 that looks and sounds like this thing, forget about it.
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I have to disagree with you there. Nice Guzzi's and vintages do get a lot of attention. But by comparison they are common place, compared to a brand new made in US v4 that looks and sounds like this thing, forget about it.
Honestly, I don't really think it looks that great or any better than some of the classic MG designs. That block of an engine is okay but I dunno about the rest. The exposed frame reminds me of some Ducs. But anyhow, I can't believe I'm taking point on admiration at a bike night but since novelty and "look at me" impression would have to factor into investing such $$$ into a machine like this, I do think you'd get the same - or even better - reaction at bike night from driving up on a Guzzi. At least the guys at the bike night have some vague notion of what a Guzzi is. What? Are you gonna tell the guys at bike night that your Motus costs 30 grand? Most of them will just notice that it sounds good. Then they'll notice it's a sports tourer. Then they'll walk back over to the Guzzi. :BEER:
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I guess we will see, if this thing actually makes it to market. Personally, I think the prototype looks pretty rough. The motor may be something special, but in this state it looks wrong. I suspect the finished product would be cleaned up a lot.
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I guess we will see, if this thing actually makes it to market. Personally, I think the prototype looks pretty rough. The motor may be something special, but in this state it looks wrong. I suspect the finished product would be cleaned up a lot.
Of course, it depends on the Guzzi and/or the vintage bike, yes? However, I do know what you mean - That MOTUS is one "way cool" motor - but the price of admission ($30K-$35K) is going to be a stretch for many, many people in this economy. I hope I get to see one on the road someday. I missed the road show when it came through AZ. Would have loved to see one in person... :)
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Always sell to people with disposable income and you'll always have a job.
-AJ
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I'd like to know the specifics about the financing behind the company. As my old boss used to say, "The road to ruin is strewn with good intentions." (Super X, remember them?)
They are not going to make enough of them to achieve significant economies of scale. Somewhere in the article they were hoping for some pretty small production numbers; that will translate to high entry costs for sure. I hope somebody behind it has DEEEEEP Pockets!
What price exclusitivity?
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Have y'all seen this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cbn_uZ2Z3EY&feature=youtu.be
Thought not. ;)
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Have y'all seen this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cbn_uZ2Z3EY&feature=youtu.be
Thought not. ;)
Interesting how the President of Motus cites Moto Guzzi as an example of what they are trying to make. A bike with character. "On paper, it doesn't do anything better than any other bike, but... "
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Lots of usefull information here............6 gal. tank, 6 spd. tranny, 750W alternator, 500# weight dry, comes w/saddlebags + opt. rack/trunk. Limited production, so not made to compete w/high volume MCs in price.
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Cool motor but it needs some sort of cover above the foot pegs area. A bit messy looking there from the pictures. Pricewise I'de say between a loaded multistrada or close to one of the sporty BMW bikes 20-25K.
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I've mentioned this before, but again, I think Lee Conn is related to Sydney Conn, a longtime Moto Guzzi owner/rider who used to be on one of the Moto Guzzi lists before Wildguzzi. Sydney was involved in taking a Guzzi to Bonneville, and other places, and trying to set a land speed record. Before the Guzzi connection, I knew Sydney as an Alfisti, he owning a beautiful Montreal, among others. Hopefully, some of the older Guzzisti will remember Sydney, and make the connection.
Don Ivey
'83 1000SP
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I've mentioned this before, but again, I think Lee Conn is related to Sydney Conn, a longtime Moto Guzzi owner/rider who used to be on one of the Moto Guzzi lists before Wildguzzi. Sydney was involved in taking a Guzzi to Bonneville, and other places, and trying to set a land speed record. Before the Guzzi connection, I knew Sydney as an Alfisti, he owning a beautiful Montreal, among others. Hopefully, some of the older Guzzisti will remember Sydney, and make the connection.
Don Ivey
'83 1000SP
Team Cooked Goose. Sydney was at the MGNA Open House in NC in '02. Got a couple tee shirts with their records on them.
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The comments here have already be duplicated elsewhere, but the video link above tells it all-
Keep the production team low (assembly only), outsource all the expensive bits (a little more $$ per), put out two trim levels, stick to your game plan and sell some bikes. Be considered lucky to own one which helps with the low production/high price. The flowchart idea of the bike is ideal- save weight, improve reliability, improve comfort...any of those are required to get the part on the bike.
They picked chain drive- cheap, light, proven, able to adjust FD ratios, don't suck up a bunch of R&D dollars making one
They picked V-4 pushrod- cheap to make and maintain, proven design with limited RPM due to GDI (if they go with GDI) and valve train.
There is no replacement for displacement
They flushed out what makes a good street/tour bike before they built it. I think they nailed it on the first go.
My HOPE is that the bike comes in at $25k/$28k for the base and R models. I'd be looking at clearing out the garage for that price. I fear that the base model will be just shy of $30k in which I will be standing on the sidelines watching.
This venture is NOTHING like Excelsior Henderson (of which I own one). The hanlons were typical 90's venture capitalists...put out a buisiness model in a biz with lots of room for growth, get investors with the ROI and roll out plan, Leave no plan for downsizing or economy flux as it screws with ROI and you will lose investors, skim lots of cash off the top to make sure you are set for life, and hope your plan takes off (rare). The Super X was a good first run at HD. in 2000 it had a better motor and a shot at more, but they failed. Why? They had to build a factory to produce LOTS of machines per year to prove the ROI, so they blew a ton of cash before they even had bikes in the customer's hands. 100+ million down the tubes for less than 2000 bikes. I picked mine up new in crate 10 years later for a song (it cost over $50k to build). It's a cool conversation bike and it has about the same people who know about it as Motus does now.
Motus is doing things correctly. Roll out limited production bikes to people with deep pockets and use social media to gain interest with the rest. While doing durability testing, bring the bike to unique dealers that cater to these brands (mostly ducati, aprillia, Guzzi, and the like). The bike uses lots of GM parts, so you should be able to use a phone based service system that any dealer/owner can use to help service the bikes in trouble. The bike has a lot of parts you can pick up at NAPA or maybe air-shipped to you. People who have unique bikes, like Guzzi, accept the fact the dealer network is slim and take the risk of flying home from Montana when your bike is being shipped back. I don't think it is as big of a deal as some would make it out to be. Having access to parts and a service/parts manual would be about as much as most people would need to keep the bike going.
I'm all in if the price is right.
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yep the Excelsior plant is still an empty monolith in Belle Plain MN..
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Best quote of the thread: If they set a high price point for the bike and it sells like hotcakes, good for them, but if it doesn't sell, then what?
If it does not sell - then back to the drawing board! ** BINGO! ** ;D :D ;) :)
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yep the Excelsior plant is still an empty monolith in Belle Plain MN..
Back in the day, I bought $2,000 worth of their stock - - Ooooooops!! :) ;) :D ;D
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yep the Excelsior plant is still an empty monolith in Belle Plain MN..
Back in the day, I bought $2,000 worth of their stock - - Ooooooops!! :) ;) :D ;D
Yeah JJ, I'm not sure the gov't would bail out a motorcycle company... at least not an upstart. Just not popular enough or highly union organized. If they don't survive you lose. One chance. Good chance they won't if you look at the numbers. I sure wish the best for these guys at Motus.
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Motus may start off as a novelty, but from what I've seen and heard, I think their aspirations are much grander. Some companies may be content to produce high dollar curiosities(think Confederate Motorcycles), but I don't think the capital and R&D that Motus has spent on this venture is an indication that they are content with being pigeon-holed into a niche market. If I had captured lightning in a bottle and I had the choice of selling 500 units@36k, or 1000 units@16k, I'd go for higher volume/low MSRP, and the why is obvious; slick magazine adds and videos don't really count for squat when it comes to getting alotta people into the showroom, a company's best advertisement is seeing it's product in the real world. Case&point: We were on the fence about the new Mini until we saw one in person and talked to the owner, we bought a Cooper S a coupla weeks later. Industry hype and novelty don't equate to long-term profits, in the end the bike will have to sell itself, and to do so it must be produced in sufficient numbers to keep it continually in the public eye. If they set a high price point for the bike and it sells like hotcakes, good for them, but if it doesn't sell, then what?
The capital cost to make 500 vs 1000 isn't linear. You can't cut the price in half because you make twice as many. Let's say all the bits in the bin+overhead cost $15k, construction $5k, Profit $3k, Dealer profit $2-3k. Double the production and SOME of your parts cost drop, your construction costs drop (maybe), but the infrastructure to make an additional 500 units may add more to overhead than you are willing to take on up front. It may cost MORE per unit to make 1000 than to make 500 depending on how you are set up for construction.
The other factor that people ignore is price, or more the inability to CHANGE the price when the bike comes to market. You can't charge $35k to all the people standing in line and then lower the price to $25k once you get a foot hold. The outrage you will cause isn't worth the hit to the company. Motus has to come out with a price they can live with for a while. Most of the reason they are holding back pricing is that they are not done with R&D, have not passed EPA, and don't have final figures on end unit cost. They have already commented that they will be a low unit production mfg and the owners will have that 'lucky to own one' kind of vibe. Don't expect these bikes to be sitting on the floor getting discounted at years end (like the Super X was).
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Have y'all seen this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cbn_uZ2Z3EY&feature=youtu.be
Thought not. ;)
Interesting how the President of Motus cites Moto Guzzi as an example of what they are trying to make. A bike with character. "On paper, it doesn't do anything better than any other bike, but... "
It's been rather obvious to me the likeness to Guzzi from the beginning (just seeing the engine alone as we did) as I'm sure it was to most of you. Now I'm almost certain Guzzi had something to do with this engine design whether consciously or subconsciously. It's just too ironic he mentions Guzzi like he does in such a glowing way as a pinnacle of character. That was cool to hear! ;-T
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american made. guzzi style v4. anyone have pics??
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Isn't the Motus engine more like the Honda ST1300 V4 than the Guzzi V twin?
Mark
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Yes and there are pictures everywhere. They did a national promo tour recently and more than one national (california) cycle mag has an article about the V-4.
It is a set-up a la ST1300. Ive seen an early model and it struck me as very crude. Im sure by now that it has been polished to some degree.
Pulling this off is a tall order.
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motus' web page has a lot of pics and video. CW and others have some ride reports. youtube has videos. LOTS of info on this bike out there.
They have sparked a lot of interest through social media. I, for one, am ~VERY~ interested and will wait for a price before trying to figure out how to afford one. Sub $25k and I'm in.
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Check here http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=48487.0 (http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=48487.0)
The old Bill ;D
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I would love to go but unfortunately will be out of town on business. I hope someone can go and give us a report on the Motus bikes.
From an FBF email:
"The Motus MST's are getting readied and gear is being packed as they prepare to roll out on the second leg of the American Sport Tour, this time to the Northeast. They will be visiting Fast By Ferracci on Thursday, October 13 from 5 till 8 pm. Come see (and hear!) these amazing prototypes, hang with the founders of Motus, and give them your feedback. We'll be providing snacks and beverages, so mark your calendar now and plan to be there. "
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So I went down to FBF last night to see the Motus...
They had 2 bikes there: A white prototype which had been ridden there and a silver one. The sound is truly beautiful. Engineering is impressive. But... The pipes / exhaust are... underwhelming. I guess that from an engineering perspective the exhaust is correct and has been designed for performance. But this bike needs header pipes on the scale of a Griso. It does not need huge ass exhaust cans - but the pipes need some more mass to balance the engine. Just my opinion. Oh and sorry - I did not take any pics. Was anyone else from here there?
Eric
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So I went down to FBF last night to see the Motus...
It does not need huge ass exhaust cans - but the pipes need some more mass to balance the engine. Just my opinion. Oh and sorry - I did not take any pics. Was anyone else from here there?
Eric
You can thank the EPA for the size of the mufflers on those Motus', it sounds like. Earlier views of the Motus showed mufflers that were OK by me, but I figured they wouldn't pass the EPA regulations. :D
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I did not do a good enough job explaining myself. The exhaust cans are NOT huge - They are fine. I think they're made by Two Brothers Racing.
What I'm trying to say is that the exhaust pipes, headers if you will look tiny. The Griso pipes look positively massive by comparison. But the Griso pipes end up in a huge can, of which I'm not a fan. So what I was trying to say is:
Bigger header pipes would look better (to me) but the exhaust cans are fine as is.
Eric
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Thanks for the write up, Eric.
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I was wearing my Guzzi Land Speed Record t shirt (about 2000 IIRC) at Barber's, and looking at the Motus prototype when a youngish guy walked up and said he'd been there when "we" got the record on the LeMans. ;D Introduced himself as Lee Conn, and asked if I knew his dad, Sydney. :o
Well duh, Sydney was part of the LSR team from the old Topica Guzzi list, and had the hot air balloon with the Guzzi logo on it. Lee piloted it and gave rides to the salt racers. He said they really enjoyed seeing the festivities from another perspective. I asked him what he was doing for Motus, and he said, "President." ;D
Told me to hop on, and tell him what I thought. ;D ;D Remember, I'm Guzzi sized and inseam challenged, but it felt perfect to me. Seating is narrow between your legs, and let me flat foot it. ;-T I don't flat foot any other sport touring bikes. The sound it makes is awesome...
I certainly wish them well, but kinda wonder about the target demographic. We're talking about a reasonably comfortable sport touring bike that should take on all comers when it gets to the twistys. Sounds like a young man's bike.. and how many young men will have the kind of resources to afford the price of admission?? I've been in manufacturing all my life, and *know* how expensive this startup is. This is going to be an extremely expensive motorcycle.
Did I like it?? Oh, yeah.. ;-T ;-T
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(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/blackkat-1/bf91a609.jpg?t=1318160217)
Photo from Barber's; bike sounded OK, sort of like a Guzzi.
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Funny you mention the exhaust pipes. Every now and then, a biker unfamiliar with Guzzi will be giving my 1200 Sport a once-over, and the one thing that catches their eye is the diameter of the exhaust pipes, and their reaction to them is always favorable. Makes it look like it really breathes. (personally, I don't know if they're large diameter for breathing purposes, or because they're double-walled?).
There is a lot of competition in the sport touring arena, including the Norge and Stelvio, not to mention offerings from BMW, Yamaha, Kaw, Triumph, and others.
Their success depends on several factors, not the least being the MSRP. They have a lot of work ahead of them to actually get the bike on dealer floors.
I wish them success.
Bob
Note - perhaps if this part of their business plan is successful, their company won't need to live or die by whether the bike is a stellar sales performer out of the box. " ...... reading the Motus literature I noticed some vague hints about the possibility of using the engine for a car, boat and other uses, along with the possibility of smaller or bigger displacements ......."
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Young man's bike? Hmm.
If I decide I need a new bike, this one is definitely one that would get a look. I'm not a young feller though.
I also don't think I could bring myself to spend $25-30K on a bike. It just seems wrong.
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Young man's bike? Hmm.
If I decide I need a new bike, this one is definitely one that would get a look. I'm not a young feller though.
I also don't think I could bring myself to spend $25-30K on a bike. It just seems wrong.
Same for me ... that bike would be interesting to me and I'd consider it along with bikes like the Stelvio and Triumph Sprint GT when the time comes, even though I'll be an Old Guy in anyone's book by then. Looks like a Rider's Bike, not another endless copy of a 1936 Vtwin ...
Same reaction, though, to the $25 - $30K. That's above my pay grade and outside my demographic ... !
Lannis
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But this bike needs header pipes on the scale of a Griso.
Griso headers are double-walled. If a Griso had single wall headers the diameter of the outer pipe of the exhaust it comes with, it would be an utter DOG: those pipes are WAY too big for the size valves it carries, and are a direct result of form over function thinking from the Harley/cruiser demographic...
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...........in Maryland @ www.webbikeworld.co m
Someone earlier here had complained about this bike's mufflers. They look good to me if these are the same ones! ???
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What's with that rusty-ass chain in that one photo? Interesting bike.. I'd like to see one in person.
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What's with that rusty-ass chain in that one photo? Interesting bike.. I'd like to see one in person.
Odd, isn't it, that an engine with a longitudinal crank would have a chain final drive? That's going to put a lot of people off.
Me personal, I stack up the hassle of replacing a chain and sprockets every 25,000 miles against having to replace a Guzzi clutch every XXXXX miles and it doesn't seem so bad.
I'd like to ride one and see what it's like.
Lannis
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...........in Maryland @ www.webbikeworld.co m
Someone earlier here had complained about this bike's mufflers. They look good to me if these are the same ones! ???
For the record I was not complaining about the mufflers. I was opining that the head pipes need more mass. They look too small in comparison to the mass of the engine/bike. Just an opinion. I compared the Motus pipes (headers) to those on the Griso, which look huge. I complicated things by saying that it did not need big old mufflers. I was hoping people would understand that I actually like the mufflers on the Motus... Oh well. Anyway - it is just my opinion.
Eric
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I agree about the garden-hose diameter exhausts exiting the heads. Something about them just doesn't seem proportional / substantial. I'm sure they function as necessary. Maybe anything larger in diameter would be inappropriate for a cylinder with 400cc displacement. Scratch that notion..my ducati has 2 cyls. @ 400cc each and the exhaust diameters seem larger.
Yep- those motus exhaust straws just look a little odd.
Nice two brothers can on the end, though..
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Saw the bike at Barbers. Quite interesting! Did you know that the person sitting on the bike at the end of the video is the guy in charge (I forgot his first name) but he is the son of Sidney and Eleanor Conn who were involved with Guzzis years ago and had the Guzzi hot air balloon. They had a balloon factory in Statesville, NC for some time but now live in downtown Birmingham, AL.
He told us that Barber is somehow aiding him on this project. I think he's renting one of Barber's buildings.
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Saw the bike at Barbers. Quite interesting! Did you know that the person sitting on the bike at the end of the video is the guy in charge (I forgot his first name) but he is the son of Sidney and Eleanor Conn who were involved with Guzzis years ago and had the Guzzi hot air balloon. They had a balloon factory in Statesville, NC for some time but now live in downtown Birmingham, AL.
He told us that Barber is somehow aiding him on this project. I think he's renting one of Barber's buildings.
Barber's former bike museum was downtown. Maybe that's where the Motus operation hangs out. :-X
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I got to sit on one last night. You can see the owners, Brian and his wife eating Chili at Cherie's in the back ground. They headed up the Skyway shortly afterwards. I really want one of these. Cherie said I might have to sell a few bikes to make room for one. Guess that's better than a "Hell No!"
(http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/306383_176510189101336_100002270681448_369234_1900267199_n.jpg)
minimike
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If they are serious about keeping weight down, and they seem to be, a double walled header would probably cost a couple pounds plus add to the $ cost.
I agree that the skinny headers look flimsy, but thankfully, it is about function over form, IMHO.
I, personally, would have to win the Lotto first.
Bill Lovelady IS
Eskimo Spy.
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What I'm trying to say is that the exhaust pipes, headers if you will look tiny.
Yes! Like spaghetti.
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If they are serious about keeping weight down, and they seem to be, a double walled header would probably cost a couple pounds plus add to the $ cost.
Yes, but they'll stay [reasonably] shiny too, instead of turning all purple, grey & black. Given the price point for the machine, that might be justification enough to go down the 2-wall path, since someone laying out large coin for a bike generally prefers it to stay nice looking w/o constant maintenance.
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when it comes to mufflers you can have
quiet
small size
power...
pick any 2, but never all 3
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I like the look of the exhaust, it's simple and graceful and purposeful. Why carry extra size and weight in anything on a bike?
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Sounds nice too...distinct...St ill think a Lafranconi'd Guzzi sounds better though...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DByGC5AlY0&list=UUqY2gtg98hXWzsUkm2Xh_jw&index=1&feature=plcp
Sorry if the vids are a repost...I know the Motus has been mentioned here before.
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Don't know if that's been here before or not, but I liked watching it. Well put together vid. Wish Guzzi had dollars and sense to do something similar with any of its models.
Naturally, I got sucked in by y/t and watched a few more, too.
I am not enchanted with that sound, either, but am taken by the whole concept. Wish those folks very well, and, if time, money, and other realities not in the way, would love to have one.
Heck, if my PowerBall investment plans work out, I'll buy a couple of 'em. :D
Bill
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Seen several posts and videos about the Motus, but I hadn't seen this one yet. I am really intrigued by this bike. It will mostly likely be way out of my budget, but damn I'd like to get a test ride on one.
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thanks for posting! I want that thing! sound is Great! loose the red rocker covers tho..how about some high tech clear pyrex or something unusual.. red is over done..
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www.superbikeplanet .com go to News for more info.
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The email I received from them yesterday said pricing and availability would be announced at Bike Week in Daytona.
-AJ
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Motuses, or Motum?...
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Yep, and then the howls will come about how it soooo $$$!
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Motuses, or Motum?...
If they are masculine, Moti
If feminine, Motae (this is unlikely, given the -us ending)
If it is a fourth declension noun, it would be Motus, but the u would be long.
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Motuses, or Motum?...
Motai?
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Yep, and then the howls will come about how it soooo $$$!
Cool bike. I have lots of respect for thier effort.
If the bike is less than $25,000, I'll be surprised.
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My feeling is if it's much over $20k it will be a tough sell. I just think $20k is a breaking point for cycles. It should be pretty outrageous if it tips that line. Cool bikes for sure, but not that much cooler than a Guzzi. Just my two pennies.
-Kevin
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Cool bike. I have lots of respect for thier effort.
If the bike is less than $25,000, I'll be surprised.
(+1) Agreed....they are a nice bike....but not that nice (IMHO) :)
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If the bike isn't priced in the Goldilocks' zone the company will be belly up before the economy recovers.... if it ever does ::) They need a bread&butter ride to keep the company going until the flagship model's sales take off. What the Isetta did for BMW. BMW built several post-war cars that were beautiful classics, but too damn pricey for the European economy. They finally came to their senses and bought the production rights for the Isetta from Count Iso, and that funny little egg-shaped car made BMW profitable again. With the possibility of economic recovery being stifled by the fear of $5.00/gal gas prices, Motus should be thinking more Cub than Wing.
I don't know about that. Right now BMW and Ducati sales are up when everything else is down. Rich people still have the $ to spend. :) Your references are for mfg.s looking for gross sales. Motus isn't about that.
You wouldn't like to pull up to a biker hangout on a Motus ??
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I don't know about that. Right now BMW and Ducati sales are up when everything else is down. Rich people still have the $ to spend. :) Your references are for mfg.s looking for gross sales. Motus isn't about that.
You wouldn't like to pull up to a biker hangout on a Motus ??
How about on a Guzzi. They know less about Guzzi's probably. When you come to market it's best to sell as many as you can for exposure. As that happens you can raise prices because there's demand. At a premium price point that won't happen. Few sales, low exposure, hard to convince dealers to carry them= hard to stay in business.
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It really needs to be somewhere in the $15k to $18k range IMHO.
Over $18k, and potential customers will be few and far between.
At $25k, which is where I think it'll be, they're going to sell a few to well-heeled clients, but it won't be enough to keep them going for very long.
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How about on a Guzzi. They know less about Guzzi's probably. When you come to market it's best to sell as many as you can for exposure. As that happens you can raise prices because there's demand. At a premium price point that won't happen. Few sales, low exposure, hard to convince dealers to carry them= hard to stay in business.
It's harder to raise a price than to lower it.
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I don't know about that. Right now BMW and Ducati sales are up when everything else is down. Rich people still have the $ to spend. :)
You mean Rich People like the ones with three or four or five or six nice motorcycles together worth about 30- or $40,000, and a car for Mom that cost $30,000, and a 4WD truck that cost $30,000? That kind of Rich People? ???
A whole punkload of us on this very board resemble that characterization ..... ;)
I'll bet it will be between $25,000 and $30,000. About the same as a farkled-up BMW or Wing or HD. Will they sell? Time will tell ..... :pop
Lannis
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I have 8- 2/3wheelers, a 3/4T PU, a Toyhauler trailer, a small SUV, a paid for house, but I'm NOT rich ! Never have been. :)
I'm not interested in buying a Motus, but I'd like to see/hear 1 up close just the same. ;D
Well no, YOU'RE not rich. You can't be. To be considered "rich", you have to have more money than the person doing the considering.
Be that as it may, I think the reason that the Motus is so interesting is:
1) It's a sport-tourer, my favorite flavor of motorcycle.
2) It's NOT a foggy copy of some dead brand (Excelsior, Henderson, Indian, Norton, etc) and it's NOT a poser copy of a Harley Davidson, and it's NOT some unrideable exercise in excess (bikes with Corvette engines, etc). It looks like it's meant to be a real, practical motorcycle. Problem is, they won't be able to amortize their startup and ongoing operations costs over 100,000 units. They'll be asking quite a bit more than people will be willing to pay for a new, untried thing. I wish them luck; but those who can't remember Hesketh are condemned to repeat it ....
Lannis
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I have 8- 2/3wheelers, a 3/4T PU, a Toyhauler trailer, a small SUV, a paid for house, but I'm NOT rich ! Never have been. :)
I'm not interested in buying a Motus, but I'd like to see/hear 1 up close just the same. ;D
Did that. Sat on it, made it go vroom vroom. Couldn't talk him into letting me go for a putt. ;D Sounds bitchin. Ergos are excellent. Do you know that the president of motus' dad is Sydney Conn, the Guzzi Guy? I've been in manufacturing all my life, and this bike is EXPENSIVE. There are plenty of people with the coin to buy something like this, but do they want a high performance sport touring bike? Time will tell, and I wish them well.
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I'm scared off by the exclusive limited first production run. Oiy! Does not sound cheap to me!
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http://blog.al.com/businessnews/2012/03/bike_to_the_future_motus_motor.html (http://blog.al.com/businessnews/2012/03/bike_to_the_future_motus_motor.html)
2013 Motus MST
Base price: $30,975
Colors: Speed silver metallic or flame red metallic
Engine: V-4 Baby Block, 1650cc liquid cooled, 165 horsepower, six-speed, dual overdrive, electronic fuel injection
Tires and wheels: Aluminum wheels with wave rotors and Michelin tires
Options: Adjustable handlebars, heated seat, heated grips
2013 Motus MST-R
Base price: $36,975
Colors: Strong white or carbon black
Engine: V-4R Baby Block, 1650cc liquid cooled, 185 horsepower, six-speed, dual overdrive, electronic fuel injection
Tires and wheels: Forged OZ aluminum wheels with wave rotors and Michelin tires
Options: Heated seat, heated grips, rear storage rack, premium low seat, touring windscreen
You can buy two-three Griso SE's for that price!
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http://blog.al.com/businessnews/2012/03/bike_to_the_future_motus_motor.html (http://blog.al.com/businessnews/2012/03/bike_to_the_future_motus_motor.html)
2013 Motus MST
Base price: $30,975
Colors: Speed silver metallic or flame red metallic
Engine: V-4 Baby Block, 1650cc liquid cooled, 165 horsepower, six-speed, dual overdrive, electronic fuel injection
Tires and wheels: Aluminum wheels with wave rotors and Michelin tires
Options: Adjustable handlebars, heated seat, heated grips
2013 Motus MST-R
Base price: $36,975
Colors: Strong white or carbon black
Engine: V-4R Baby Block, 1650cc liquid cooled, 185 horsepower, six-speed, dual overdrive, electronic fuel injection
Tires and wheels: Forged OZ aluminum wheels with wave rotors and Michelin tires
Options: Heated seat, heated grips, rear storage rack, premium low seat, touring windscreen
You can buy two-three Griso SE's for that price!
Well, the normal Guzzi strategy would be to wait till 2016 and then buy the new unsold ones at a 40% discount ....
Lannis
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Well, the normal Guzzi strategy would be to wait till 2016 and then buy the new unsold ones at a 40% discount ....
Lannis
That's still almost $20k.... Which if you wait for Griso SE's to be 60% of their price they would be $7500 ;D
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Well no, YOU'RE not rich. You can't be. To be considered "rich", you have to have more money than the person doing the considering.
Lannis
Small quibble: one must not make more money than another to be considered rich. One must possess more money than another to be considered rich. It's not the number of toys or cars or houses - only net worth and even that can be parsed when dissected further. I think the down economy proved that while many appeared rich they were actually huge debtors financing luxuries with unrealized housing gains or fragile paychecks, leaving little in reserve.
Back to Motus - I hope they succeed but $30K is a big number. However, I don’t beleive selling lots of bikes is the end game for Motus. I feel they are looking to become something of a tier one supplier to established brands, like Rotax, or an engineering partner like Lotus. That scenario would make the bike basically a proof of concept, but I have nothing to base that on other than conjecture.
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Small quibble: one must not make more money than another to be considered rich. One must possess more money than another to be considered rich. It's not the number of toys or cars or houses - only net worth and even that can be parsed when dissected further. I think the down economy proved that while many appeared rich they were actually huge debtors financing luxuries with unrealized housing gains or fragile paychecks, leaving little in reserve.
Back to Motus - I hope they succeed but $30K is a big number. However, I don’t beleive selling lots of bikes is the end game for Motus. I feel they are looking to become something of a tier one supplier to established brands, like Rotax, or an engineering partner like Lotus. That scenario would make the bike basically a proof of concept, but I have nothing to base that on other than conjecture.
Well it would make sense, as they plan to offer their baby block engine for sale separately from the bike.
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Small quibble: one must not make more money than another to be considered rich. One must possess more money than another to be considered rich. It's not the number of toys or cars or houses - only net worth and even that can be parsed when dissected further. I think the down economy proved that while many appeared rich they were actually huge debtors financing luxuries with unrealized housing gains or fragile paychecks, leaving little in reserve.
Well, to quibble a bit further - The only way I can show you my "Net Worth" is by showing you my toys and motorcycles and house and Other Stuff.
All the rest of it is just paper - statements from brokerage houses and banks, papers "certifying" that I have money put up somewhere (where?), and little green slips with NOTHING behind them other than the fact that the next guy will take them from me in exchange for goods.
So unless we compare paper and see what kind it is, you can't tell by looking WHO I'm borrowing from to buy my toys. And in the end, it doesn't make a whit of difference what the paper says that I used to buy my "stuff" - if I can buy a $3M beach house and move my stuff into it, who knows or cares whether it's a "credit" transaction or a "cash" transaction?
So if one guy has 10 luxury cars and 3 houses all mortgaged to the hilt and wears Italian silk suits, and has not one dime in the bank, and another guy lives in a shack in raggedy jeans, eating beans and has a million dollars in the bank .... which one's the "rich guy"?
And why does it matter? ??? ;)
Lannis
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When you come to market it's best to sell as many as you can for exposure. As that happens you can raise prices because there's demand. At a premium price point that won't happen. Few sales, low exposure, hard to convince dealers to carry them= hard to stay in business.
Sounds like Moto Guzzi.
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Well, to quibble a bit further - The only way I can show you my "Net Worth" is by showing you my toys and motorcycles and house and Other Stuff.
All the rest of it is just paper - statements from brokerage houses and banks, papers "certifying" that I have money put up somewhere (where?), and little green slips with NOTHING behind them other than the fact that the next guy will take them from me in exchange for goods.
So unless we compare paper and see what kind it is, you can't tell by looking WHO I'm borrowing from to buy my toys. And in the end, it doesn't make a whit of difference what the paper says that I used to buy my "stuff" - if I can buy a $3M beach house and move my stuff into it, who knows or cares whether it's a "credit" transaction or a "cash" transaction?
So if one guy has 10 luxury cars and 3 houses all mortgaged to the hilt and wears Italian silk suits, and has not one dime in the bank, and another guy lives in a shack in raggedy jeans, eating beans and has a million dollars in the bank .... which one's the "rich guy"?
And why does it matter? ??? ;)
Lannis
It completly does not matter, semantics to some extent. Im not really sure what my original point was and I guess I really dont have a point other than generally those that may appear the "richest" may actually not be as well off as they appear.
This says is better than I can: http://www.plantingdollars.com/personal-finance/being-rich-versus-being-wealthy/
Being Rich
Rich is a current state of being that can happen overnight. For example: lottery winners, new found celebrities and even high payed professions such as doctors or lawyers belong in the category of rich. They have quite a bit of money, but only have that money because of one source. Becoming rich can happen in an instant, but at the same time it can dissappear in an instant.
Being Wealthy
Wealth is being rich, but being rich through ownership of assets. Wealthy people don’t rely on their job, one particular asset, or even their natural talents. Wealthy people own assets and if you took away their job (if they have one) they wouldn’t be poor. If you took away the income stream from a rich person, they would quickly become poor. There’s a huge difference here
.
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It completly does not matter, semantics to some extent. Im not really sure what my original point was and I guess I really dont have a point other than generally those that may appear the "richest" may actually not be as well off as they appear.
This says is better than I can: http://www.plantingdollars.com/personal-finance/being-rich-versus-being-wealthy/
Being Rich
Rich is a current state of being that can happen overnight. For example: lottery winners, new found celebrities and even high payed professions such as doctors or lawyers belong in the category of rich. They have quite a bit of money, but only have that money because of one source. Becoming rich can happen in an instant, but at the same time it can dissappear in an instant.
Being Wealthy
Wealth is being rich, but being rich through ownership of assets. Wealthy people don’t rely on their job, one particular asset, or even their natural talents. Wealthy people own assets and if you took away their job (if they have one) they wouldn’t be poor. If you took away the income stream from a rich person, they would quickly become poor. There’s a huge difference here
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Neither of us have to have a point ... It's just a discussion board! And I think the original question was related to "Rich (or wealthy if you will) compared to WHO?", especially if I was involved!
Good thoughts, though.
Lannis
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$31k and $37k!!! :o Plus they've dropped one of the most hyped features, the direct injection. All I can say is good luck to them...
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$31k and $37k!!! :o Plus they've dropped one of the most hyped features, the direct injection. All I can say is good luck to them...
Surprised to not see ABS or traction control (I may have missed both). I figure the buyer of a $30K motorcycle may want those features considering the competition has such things along with lots and lots of luxury farkels like radios and keyless entry, interior lighted luggage.
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I remember when they used to call that bike the Honda ST1300. ;D
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Most have been following the Motus since before last year's Daytona presentation. This is the first they have announced pricing. It's about $5-7k above my budget for the base model.
This bike has a great weight, power, and range. Exactly what I've been looking for in a US built bike. Too bad they priced it out of a lot of people's range.
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My kind of bike, and, I really wish them well with it, but... at that price, I'm out.
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Oh, goody. A Guzzatiha! How underwhelming.
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Almost $40,000 for a bike with Givi bags ?
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I like it. My wallet doesn't. :'(
:+1
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too bad about the chain.
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The sound of this bike is nothing short of intoxicating, and I love the looks of the naked model.
However, my budget is capped at around $15k for a bike, and I would prefer shaft-drive.
Still, this is likely the most exciting American bike produced in the last, ohhhh I dunno, 109 years or so. Something fresh and full of potential. I wish Motus nothing but the absolute best, and pray that these prove reliable and that the well-off snatch these up to allow for research and development and production of future models that are more affordable to the masses.
I'm still holding out hope for Buell/EBR, but right now I've got most of my attention on Motus. Imagine if both companies succeed, and 5-10 years from now we have multiple American motorcycle manufacturers with a full range of models to choose from, from nakeds to tourers to sportbikes to dual-sports/adventure bikes and motards. :drool It'd be nice to be excited about American bikes for a change.
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I don't think the price is out of line. It's actually less than I expected for a ground up entirely new design. I wish them well.
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My FJR1300 is too damn fast as it is....prolly why I don't ride it much! :+=copcar
Think I would rather spend money on suspension and braking upgrades for the feejer and pocket the rest.....well maybe buy another Guzzi! :BEER:
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This is at Barber's last fall. The Motus guy picked my friend Norm out of the crowd (because he's vertically challenged) and bet him that he could sit on the bike flat footed (he could). Great sounding bike, the odds are long against them,hope they make it--I love diversity!
(http://s16.postimage.org/4z9vtr4kh/Misc_013.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/4z9vtr4kh/)
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Yeah, I sat on it too. the front of the seat is very narrow. That's the reason for being able to flat foot it. I got to start it up and make vroom vroom noises. It makes good ones..
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very nice. i dont understand why the 30 000 dollar version wouldnt come with the ohlins. if ur gonna spend 30 wouldnt you feel stupid ? 30 should be the price of the r version.
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too bad it is out of any reasonable price range. Once the Leno's get theirs, i doubt they will make it.
I was interested, but not now. Also the dealer network is too thin. And I thought Guzzi network was weak.
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Still, this is likely the most exciting American bike produced in the last, ohhhh I dunno, 109 years or so. Something fresh and full of potential. I wish Motus nothing but the absolute best, and pray that these prove reliable and that the well-off snatch these up to allow for research and development and production of future models that are more affordable to the masses.
Are you kidding?? They already did their R & R and now they want limited production and a high price point! The expensive stuff is now behind them and if they have the tooling to produce it and they should do just that. Produce a bunch of them at a price that will sell. This price point is way too high for the masses. With that engine, they should think about a race bike not a tourer. Who needs those horses for touring. It's overkill. Ducati is producing more horses at a 23k price tag for a two cylinder. I love what they did and what they were about, but they went American with their prices. OUT TO GET A BUCK! The difference between us and the Germans is that we are only in it for the $$. Now Motus has proved that. Sorry, but I was afraid of this.
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1st the hype, now reality...........i t's official..........M otus prices start @ $31,000 !!! :D ::)
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At $37K I'm ordering an MGS/01.
Quite frankly, the Motus is a nice bike but it isn't that nice.
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Reminds me of an anecdote I read about someone talking to David Brown at a party and asking if they could get an Aston Martin at cost. His reply was that the cost price would be somewhat higher than retail.
I'd bet they're doing everything they can to bring the price down, but they don't have much in the way of amortisation options right now.
This.
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Was it Christopher Morley or Henry Thoreau who said, "That man is richest, whose pleasures are cheapest"? I love the design features of the Motus and the fact that it's made here in the USA, but I get endless pleasure from my two Stone Touring models; average cost ( I bought them in 2009 and 2011) under $5K each, many impressive upgrades by first owners and very low miles. I'll fantasize about the Motus, ride the Stones without regret. I hope Motus will survive and I believe they will. There is always a stratum of society that can afford nice things, even during a difficult economy.
Ralph
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Campared to full blown Screaming Eagle from HD it may very well be a really good buy. Coworker was telling me about a neighbor of his just paid a little over 33k for one and was tickled to death!
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too bad about the chain.
:+1
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Campared to full blown Screaming Eagle from HD it may very well be a really good buy. Coworker was telling me about a neighbor of his just paid a little over 33k for one and was tickled to death!
Talk to coworker about this comparison. You might get some insight. Could Harley exist with ONLY a $33+k bike?
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I like this bike a lot, but good luck selling it in any quantities in the marketplace. Only for the well-heeled... :o :o ;)
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Are you kidding?? They already did their R & R and now they want limited production and a high price point! The expensive stuff is now behind them and if they have the tooling to produce it and they should do just that. Produce a bunch of them at a price that will sell. This price point is way too high for the masses. With that engine, they should think about a race bike not a tourer. Who needs those horses for touring. It's overkill. Ducati is producing more horses at a 23k price tag for a two cylinder. I love what they did and what they were about, but they went American with their prices. OUT TO GET A BUCK! The difference between us and the Germans is that we are only in it for the $$. Now Motus has proved that. Sorry, but I was afraid of this.
You don't think Germans or any other company recoups their development costs? Sorry but any company that doesn't will soon go out of business. The only difference with a small company or startup is that you have to spread those costs over a much smaller number of units. This is the big hurdle and why so many new motorcycle or car companies don't make it. They just don't have enough money to get past the small production phase where prices have to be high just to get back a fraction of what it costs to do all the development and testing. How many millions do you think Motus has spent and how many bikes can they sell?
I would bet that even if they sell a lot more bikes than expected, they won't make a dime in profit for several years. If they can sell enough to pay back the investors that paid for all the pre-sale costs, then perhaps they can put some of that money into increasing production and bringing the cost down. alternatively, they can look for a fat cat that is willing to give them a truck load of money and not expect any return for a long time.
I won't be one of the folks buying a bike at this price but I hope there are enough of them to get the company established. I like the concept and like that it's made in the U.S.
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I wonder if it's just the forum. The demographics here being primarily old crotchety tightwads. Maybe over on the Goldwing forums they are saying what a great second bike this would make and that it's not too unreasonably priced.
~;
-AJ
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Kevdog, no need to talk to him, he doesn't even own a bike. The fact that you can market a 30 something Harley Davidson kind of makes me believe anything is possible with the right marketing, advertising and image.
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Kevdog, no need to talk to him, he doesn't even own a bike. The fact that you can market a 30 something Harley Davidson kind of makes me believe anything is possible with the right marketing, advertising and image.
:+1 Daugahter paid $28 for hers and her husband paid something like $36 for his. When they go out of town they take the Goldwing.
Matt
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Watched some videos and the bike looks amazing!
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They need to double-wall those freakin' pipes, they just look too spindly.
(http://s7.postimage.org/b4hkbu2av/Fat_Motus.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/b4hkbu2av/)
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$31k and $37k!!! :o Plus they've dropped one of the most hyped features, the direct injection. All I can say is good luck to them...
They're going to need it...
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You don't think Germans or any other company recoups their development costs? Sorry but any company that doesn't will soon go out of business. The only difference with a small company or startup is that you have to spread those costs over a much smaller number of units. This is the big hurdle and why so many new motorcycle or car companies don't make it. They just don't have enough money to get past the small production phase where prices have to be high just to get back a fraction of what it costs to do all the development and testing. How many millions do you think Motus has spent and how many bikes can they sell?
I would bet that even if they sell a lot more bikes than expected, they won't make a dime in profit for several years. If they can sell enough to pay back the investors that paid for all the pre-sale costs, then perhaps they can put some of that money into increasing production and bringing the cost down. alternatively, they can look for a fat cat that is willing to give them a truck load of money and not expect any return for a long time.
I won't be one of the folks buying a bike at this price but I hope there are enough of them to get the company established. I like the concept and like that it's made in the U.S.
I really hope they can do it. I understand recouping your R & D costs, etc.. If their production numbers have to be that small that's one thing, but if there's a way to get more capital, raise production, and sell them at a cheaper price point, that's where I'd be. It seems like they did their homework on this bike also. If it doesn't sell with this first outing, then what? How do you then convince investors to get on board? If they only feel they need to sell a few to get more folks involved in one facet or another, then they may do just fine with those few sold. No doubt they will sell a few so time will tell what their strategy is.
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I wonder if it's just the forum. The demographics here being primarily old crotchety tightwads. Maybe over on the Goldwing forums they are saying what a great second bike this would make and that it's not too unreasonably priced.
~;
-AJ
Nope. I spend some time over at www.sport-touring.net and the consensus is the same. Great concept, great bike, way overpriced.
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I'd like to see MOTUS succeed. I think the bike looks awesome, should work great, I love Sport Tourers, and I'd love to see an American manufacturer at a decent volume level do something other than the usual cruiser- Harley and Victory already do that very well thank you very much.
Maybe part of the problem with the price is that sport tourers are by definition bikes that get used....and used.....and used. Choppers can sit under glass as rolling art, and you see it it to a lesser extent with cafe, scramblers, etc; consequentlt the boutique companies can get away charging the massive premium for rolling art, but it's a harder sell in the S-T marker where you have some extraordinarily capable bikes for 10-15K less, and when you get one it's heading out on the line.
-Steve
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From this link: http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/2013-motus-mst-r/
(http://s15.postimage.org/tdrgn3t1z/motus_mst_production_10_635x423.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/tdrgn3t1z/)
"With the Motus MST priced at $30,975 and the Motus MST-R getting a price tag of $36,975, our earlier reports of a $30,000 price tag appear to be spot on as well. A “comfortable sportbike” as the American company is calling it, the Motus MST will initially be available at seven premium dealerships nationwide, though sadly none of them are west of the Rockies.
Plus taxes and PDI! ......
I like it - Guzzi should license the mill, although drop the chain.
It's even a small block ;D
However - it will never make it here - the price would hit close to 100.000$ all taxes included :o ...but it would turn some heads for sure.
Bikes ARE sold here between 1 and 200.000$ - but it would have to be bikes like this - custom orders by celebs like this one for the Danish Crown Prince with monograms and the works.
(He's the equivalent of a Navy Seal in this country, which symbolically has been shown on the bike.)
http://www.bt.dk/royale/her-er-kronprins-frederiks-nye-kvaern
http://www.speciallakering.dk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=84&Itemid=89
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A year ago I wrote to Motus and suggested they contact my local Guzzi dealer as a potential dealer for the new Motus bikes. I'm not saying they listened to me but Motus announced that Riders's Hill in Dahlonega will be/is an official Motus dealer!
Won't it be awesome if they put one in their rental fleet?
-AJ
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It would be more awesome if they swung a deal to get Motus represented at all Guzzi dealers. The bikes don't have to be there, just customers interested in a V-twin that handles and is unique.
By V-twin you mean Guzzis?
Motus is V4
Sorry if I misunderstood.
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With starting prices of $30,975 (MST) and $36,975 (MST-R), Motus ownership is going to be a pretty exclusive club:
http://www.ultimatemotorcycling.com/2012/motus-motorcycles-2012-production-plans
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Yeah but plenty of people in this area with that kind of money to burn. I think they will do well in this area.
-AJ
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Anthony told me about this a couple of weeks back. From the conversation, I suspect they will order one for you. But you aren't going to find 10 of them in the floor plan.
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Anthony told me about this a couple of weeks back. From the conversation, I suspect they will order one for you. But you aren't going to find 10 of them in the floor plan.
Chain drive. There are a lot of people with prejudices that are dead against chain drive, just on principle. I'm not one of them, having spent more time with drive shafts and dry clutches spread around on my shop floor than I have chains and sprockets, but some will say "Chain Drive? PAH! Wouldn't buy it if it were $299.95".
I notice that they advertise a 20,000 mile chain and a life-of-the-bike rear sprocket .....
Lannis
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Anthony told me about this a couple of weeks back. From the conversation, I suspect they will order one for you. But you aren't going to find 10 of them in the floor plan.
Yeh but AJ is right, just think how many people they could attract with a few of them in their rental fleet. Bet they would stay booked up.
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One of each in the demo fleet and they'd be golden I think. Wouldn't need a floor model.
-AJ
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According to their Facebook Page the president of Motus will be at Rider's Hill tomorrow with a few bikes in tow if you are in the area and want to check them out.
-AJ
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Funny how they quieted down after they announced prices on their bikes. They were doing so well before that time with their marketing. If you get to talk to him, ask him how sales are going? I think they screwed the pooch.
Just my feeling. Not much interest in them anymore after they announced prices.
Kevin
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I won't be able to make it :( Rider's Hill says they won't be receiving any inventory for a few months but I expect them to sell well once they are inventory.
-AJ
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Yeah, the Motus is a super-expensive indulgence for someone interested in having something very unusual.
I wish them the best but they have a steep hill to climb that is littered by the bones of past such efforts.
I saw one of these bikes at Daytona Bike Week and it looked kinda crude to me. Maybe they've finessed it by now.
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According to their Facebook Page the president of Motus will be at Rider's Hill tomorrow with a few bikes in tow if you are in the area and want to check them out.
-AJ
Someone please take and post some photos if you go down there. :) Thanks in advance. 8) ;-T
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(http://s15.postimage.org/l41hokcbb/IMAG0148.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/l41hokcbb/)
Just a bad camera phone photo.
I didn't waste any more electrons on it. Not my cup of tea so to speak.
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I seen them and talked. Real different . Surprised me to find out they are Guzzi folks. Production bikes will be way more refined.
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I seen them and talked. Real different . Surprised me to find out they are Guzzi folks. Production bikes will be way more refined.
The president of Motus's dad is a Guzzi guy, as I was typing this, his name went away.. ::) getting old is not for sissys.. he had the Guzzi balloon at the Land speed record runs back in the day..
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Was it Lame Goose racing, and Sidney Conn.
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I expect them to sell well once they are inventory.
-AJ
Define "sell well".
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Hopefully enough to help fund a variety of more affordable production models. Hey, ya never know; there are a loooot of wealthy people out there who might snatch these early models up, and I can't think of anything cooler in the motorcycling world than a successful American motorcycle company that produces something other than the typical cliche, cookie-cutter cruiser and chopper. Buell was on their way there, especially with the Rotax-powered 1125 models that showed so much promise and potential, until Harley pulled the rug right out from under them.
It's all a guess right now, so we'll just have to wait and see. I hope like hell that they succeed.
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Not a surprise at all that they are Guzzi guys. Thought that from the time I saw the first engine prototype. No doubt here. That's what I like about it, a 4-banger Guzzi essentially. Price just makes me cringe though. Doesn't have to be this way. They start lower, sell a decent number, gets them out there in the marketplace, gets more rumblings, helps in the way of dealerships and investors (more units sold= more interest) and they keep rolling. THEN they raise their prices when they can justify it!!!! Now it's too late. Can't go backward. Sorry to sound so negative with them, but I did love this concept and what they seemed to concern themselves with. They were about listening to what the folks wanted and that's cool. But is this price what folks wanted? NO WAY! American greed came through at the end. silly decision.
Kevin
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But is this price what folks wanted? NO WAY! American greed came through at the end. silly decision.
Kevin
Might have been the ONLY decision. They've probably put $20,000,000 into this effort so far, with NO return, and the bikes are probably costing them $40,000 apiece to make. They probably consider the $30,000 MSRP as a "loss leader", "flog them out cheap" price considering.
Lannis
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Caught this fat guy trying the Motus out for size @ Barber's last year. ::) Photo's sure put the pounds on!!! ;D
(http://s17.postimage.org/ehu1a8niz/DSCF3606.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ehu1a8niz/)
...No relation... Michael Miller ;-T
(http://s7.postimage.org/bbu4o65s7/DSCF3605.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/bbu4o65s7/)
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Might have been the ONLY decision. They've probably put $20,000,000 into this effort so far, with NO return, and the bikes are probably costing them $40,000 apiece to make. They probably consider the $30,000 MSRP as a "loss leader", "flog them out cheap" price considering.
Lannis
That's what I reckon...
With the money invested, they might be losing money with each bike. Who knows.
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C'mon guys. There's two ways of getting your money back. You can do it short-term or you can do it long-term. Did you pay your house off in a year? In order to pull it off long-term you need to satisfy certain conditions. If their conditions are set so short that they are having to sell at this price-point, they didn't think it through or need to do some talking. If they are losing money at this price-point like you say they might be, they are sunk. they have to sell a boat-load of bikes of bikes and I can't see it happening. There are more folks that buy what the masses buy than the few that want something so unique. Few ain't gonna cut it. They have to get a REAL following with this thing. It takes a lot of sales to make a following. They can't survive with a small niche. Most companies start with a small product that's affordable and build slowly building a name and reputation as they go. These guys started the opposite way. No name, no reputation, and high-end. I wish them the best and I'll eat crow if they survive more than 2 years.
Kevin
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I've been in manufacturing all my life, and as I said when I first saw what they are doing.. that sucker's going to be *expensive*. My question is the target demographic. The guy that can afford them might be a little old for the mission Motus is designed around. Actually, 30K sounds low to me.
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Was it Lame Goose racing, and Sidney Conn.
Yeah, Sidney Conn.. duh. ;D
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They are not just selling motorcycles but will be selling the motors for different applications . Make an adapter plate and put one on your dune buggy.
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You can have a very nice Connie 14, FJR, or even an 8V Norge for about half the price. If a trick V-4 is your thing, a VRF 1200 is a lot less expensive, and you can get the touring farkles and auto shift option and still be under $20 grand.
Heck, even a Ducati Mutistrada S Touring, with ABS, programmable engine maps, electronically adjustable Ohlins suspension, and the full touring pack is a good $10,000 less. That baby also has a Moto-GP inspired Superbike engine, trellis frame, swoopy styling, and is plenty exotic. What more does Motus bring to the table, to justify the extra $10K price? American made?
The MTS is a nice bike, but I doubt their sales model will succeed.
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I've been in manufacturing all my life, and as I said when I first saw what they are doing.. that sucker's going to be *expensive*. My question is the target demographic. The guy that can afford them might be a little old for the mission Motus is designed around. Actually, 30K sounds low to me.
I think they will sell well at Riders Hill, good dealer with a good track record in the right location just north of Atlanta. Lots of money in these hills.
-AJ
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2012 Can-Am Spyder RT Limited MSRP $28,899, and in THIS soft economy? I hear there doing pretty good...
-From the beginning, what a strange concept to convince public to invest in. But you know, 5 short years later, the goofy things are every where! Who'd a thunk it !!!
Jay Leno getting serial #001 was great PR.
I gots me fingers crossed for a Motus success story.
Better give Jay one...
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First time I saw a picture of a Motus my immediate reaction was 'How are they going to keep the heat off the riders legs?" . Looks like it would be really really hot...
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2012 Can-Am Spyder RT Limited MSRP $28,899, and in THIS soft economy? I hear there doing pretty good...
"Lots of money in these hills"
"$28,899 and in this soft economy?"
Got a breaking news flash for you, guys. Look around you. NO, NOT at CNN, MSNBC and at Fox and the jabbering heads who need you to listen to their doomsday rap, AROUND you.
The economy ain't soft no more.
Lannis
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The economy ain't soft no more.
Lannis
[/quote]
Still soft at my house ;D
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"The economy ain't soft no more.
Lannis"
Still soft at my house ;D
Things are always tight some places, and rocking and rolling in others. I see a lot more rocking and rolling going on than "tight" ..... especially when people can drop the kind of money they do on bikes!
Lannis
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And Can Am's competition is??? They are on three wheels not two. Makes a difference when you compare. There are a lot of folks who grew up with three-wheelers on their property. Also older folks who've lost balance, etc.
It's apples to oranges. You get more with Can Am than a regular bike. More parts equals greater expense.
I understand there are a lot of start-up costs, R & D engineering costs, completely new engine design and manufacturing costs, etc. but in the end it boils down to price. Your average person looks at price to make that final decision. No matter how good your product is you can always price yourself out of the market. I manufacture goods myself and would love to charge what I feel is an appropriate price for my time, etc.. I think my products are the best and so do most of my customers. I've got the Jay Leno of musicians on them also, but I need to sell them, so I price them at a point where they stand out as a quality product but affordable to even college students. Each one I sell is advertising and adds to the popularity. Soon others notice and it starts to take off. My demand is up so I raise the price. My second product just went out and I have a 4 month order volume because I now have a recognizable brand that means something. They know what they get with me. I start a little low in price with this product to get them out there and will then raise the price on it as well. Volume already tells me I could do that, but I still want more in the field. Overall I will make more money selling more at a little lower price.
I will watch carefully to see if they hit their price target affectively. They need to sell bikes is the bottom line. $30-$40k is a tough sell for most on a two-wheeler. May I add that this bike of theirs is not fully chromed bling! There are other bikes that are fantastic in this bikes niche as well for much less.
Kevin
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Maybe now is the time to sell all my bikes and just have 1, not getting any younger.
Next question to them will be about sidecar use, what a tug.
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Maybe now is the time to sell all my bikes and just have 1, not getting any younger.
Next question to them will be about sidecar use, what a tug.
In Latin, "motus" refers to movement of the mind and soul.
Maybe that movement will extend to a sidecar, would love to fly-the-chair w/ that badboy!
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I will watch carefully to see if they hit their price target affectively. They need to sell bikes is the bottom line. $30-$40k is a tough sell for most on a two-wheeler. May I add that this bike of theirs is not fully chromed bling! There are other bikes that are fantastic in this bikes niche as well for much less.
Kevin
I would think their competitor is more the Indian bikes than the Spyder. Limited edition, American made bikes targeting empty nesters with money to burn. Can-Am gets the cruiser guys and Motus gets the sport types.
What will be interesting is to see if they can sell more 2013's than Guzzi U.S using this model. With all the recent posts on this board I doubt it.
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My referencing Bombardier/Can-Am was to point out their "Chutzpah" concerning a bizarre product.
With the 3 wheeler on my property, I gave myself 26 stitches just below kneecap. Not so fond a memory.
Can-Am Spyder RS SM5 is $16499 msrp. Same engine as their $29k Spyder. Just thinking Motus could do a
"welfare" version and bring price down some.
-said in all respect to kevdog3019.
michael
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This is a nice discussion. I hope Motus is successful. I am not in the correct income bracket to be able to justify such a purchase, but other enthusiast types may be. I just bought my first Guzzi a few months ago and I have never paid more for any motorcycle. If I wouldn't have found one of the left over 2008 1200 sport models (at Riders Hill), I wouldn't have a Guzzi now. 1100 miles in and I really like my new bike. ;-T
I would think that the Motus Group must have done a bit of market research before setting model specs and price, to be able to justify all the investment of time and money. I don't know anything about the organization; however I would think that the mechanical knowledge and spirit of such an endeavor must include some financial/marketing types pulling back on the reins.
Frank
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I agree Lannis. Things have improved. But also I see the gap, here at least, to have widened between Tue top and the bottom. Here anyone making a salary over $33k is considered outrageous yet a 2BR/2BA is still well over $200k (but down from $250k).
This area is unique. The money from Atlanta and Florida will buy Motus at Rider's Hill. BUT, they are not the "average buyer." Now, will Motus sell well in other places, I don't know but all of my comments have been re: this area.
-AJ
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I agree Lannis. Things have improved. But also I see the gap, here at least, to have widened between Tue top and the bottom. Here anyone making a salary over $33k is considered outrageous yet a 2BR/2BA is still well over $200k (but down from $250k).
This area is unique. The money from Atlanta and Florida will buy Motus at Rider's Hill. BUT, they are not the "average buyer." Now, will Motus sell well in other places, I don't know but all of my comments have been re: this area.
-AJ
It's just kind of gotten me thinking about the last 50 years or so (I pick that time frame because I can just about remember back that far!).
Look at, say, 1964.
Base Ford pickup truck - $1900
Base Ford car - $2200
Harley 74 bike - $2000
Honda 250 - $500
Triumph 650 -$1000
And there was no one except a few Foxfire Book subjects and a few moonshiners up where you live now. Duck and Corolla on the North Carolina coast were nothing but dozens of miles of deserted beach. Why would anyone live up there in those mountains or on a desolate strand of beach? Who could AFFORD to? No one, that's who, because that's who was living there.
NOW, giant chalets and vacation housing developments interrupt every ridgetop and hang off of every mountainside. Thousands and thousands of houses, at literally a million dollars each, sit shoulder to shoulder along the formerly deserted beach, for miles and miles with no interruption.
This ISN'T Cornelius Vanderbilt and Bill Gates building and buying these things. These are Federal employees, owners of small construction companies, doctors, lawyers, bank managers, hundreds of thousands of them.
And look what bikes and cars cost:
Ford F150 pickup - $28,000
Ford Taurus - $23,000
Big Harley - $20,000
Honda 250 $4,000
Suzuki 650 $6,000
The relationship is about the same. People have a LOT more money than they did then for discretionary, recreational purchases like vacation homes and motorcycles.
Question is: Are we getting to the point where people MIGHT pay 1/10 of the price of a second home in the mountains around Ellijay, or the price of the wife's Subaru, for a nice American made touring bike? We KNOW they'll pay that price for a farkled-out, looks-just-like-a-million-others, billeted and chromed big toy V-twin. Will they do it for a limited edition touring bike at the same price?
Lannis
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We KNOW they'll pay that price for a farkled-out, looks-just-like-a-million-others, billeted and chromed big toy V-twin. Will they do it for a limited edition touring bike at the same price?
Lannis
Lannis,
People buy million dollar homes in gated communities to impress thier friends who also live in million dollar homes in gated communities.
People buy blinged-out Harleys to impress thier friends who also own blinged-out Harleys.
No one will know what a Motus is, so it will not impress thier friends.
Therefore, the people in your example will not (though they easily could) buy a Motus.
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We're making all these assumptions as if it's the way things WILL happen, no other way; it's all set in stone.
That's not true. Whether Motus screwed up with their pricing, or whether they know something that we don't (gee, there's a thought!), not a single one of us can say what will or won't happen; who will or won't buy these bikes. Regardless of what some of us think we might know about "the biz", the economy, or whatever. Regardless of what history has shown us with other such similar ventures... THINGS CAN HAPPEN! Things can change. And stranger things have happened.
Most of us can't afford them. This much has been shown to be obvious. But this country is full of people with money to burn, and who knows; they just might come out of the woodwork for these things- unique American products. That's enough to catch the attention of many, including those with the means to purchase such products.
Or they might tank. We just don't know.
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Lannis,
People buy million dollar homes in gated communities to impress thier friends who also live in million dollar homes in gated communities.
People buy blinged-out Harleys to impress thier friends who also own blinged-out Harleys.
No one will know what a Motus is, so it will not impress thier friends.
Therefore, the people in your example will not (though they easily could) buy a Motus.
A lot of truth to that. You have achieve "Impress Your Neighbor Critical Mass" before you have a steady market in big homes or Harley Davidsons. Motus likely isn't there.
Lannis
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I actually don't think it's that unique. It's not an eye-grabber like an Indian or fakled up Harley, it's simply a nicely built (I suspect??) touring bike with a Guzzi-like engine. I think some of the Guzzi's look more eye-grabbing tbh but we know their sales aren't stellar even at this price. So if a rare Italian Guzzi (yes rare... "who makes that" rare) isn't selling like hot cakes at this price, something tells me this other rare "who makes that" Motus with a couple bikes that aren't as Italian eye-catching might sell worse at almost triple the cost. You're not going to attract the helmet-less pirates with this bike. They are the biggest fashion-statement crowd around. Touring bikes are not fashion statements but some will spring the $$ because its simply a cool touring bike with a different engine and they have the $$ to buy it. They are likely real riders. This bike is aimed at them. My question is how many Of them are out there with big pockets?
Kevin
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Touring bikes are not fashion statements but some will spring the $$ because its simply a cool touring bike with a different engine and they have the $$ to buy it. They are likely real riders. This bike is aimed at them. My question is how many Of them are out there with big pockets?
Kevin
In my experience, these are extremely practical, seasoned riders. They are engineers, pilots, chemists, law enforcement officers... steady, reliable, logical people, who don't throw their money around and don't give a rat's ass what the fashion of the day is. I've already mentioned that the competition is a good $10 -$15 K less expensive. I have no doubt that the bike will appeal to these riders. There are also probably more than a few who can afford it. The question is whether they are going part with that much money to own one. I don't think so.
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In my experience, these are extremely practical, seasoned riders. They are engineers, pilots, chemists, law enforcement officers... steady, reliable, logical people, who don't throw their money around and don't give a rat's ass what the fashion of the day is. I've already mentioned that the competition is a good $10 -$15 K less expensive. I have no doubt that the bike will appeal to these riders. There are also probably more than a few who can afford it. The question is whether they are going part with that much money to own one. I don't think so.
Part of the question will be - What will the Motus provide that existing touring bikes won't provide? The Gold Wing provides certain things, the Concours 14 certain others, the big Beemers have their own charm, and Guzzi has a unique feel and style all its own that isn't duplicated by the rest.
Will it have a "feel" of quality like a Swedish Mauser rifle bolt that just jumps out at you? Will it have a subtle, attractive vibration that lets you know the motor is working for you, along with stellar handling?
Will it use its handlebar switches to trigger relays to operate the lights instead of running too much current through a cheap switch?
There's no telling what might drive a man to something new like this ... when there are perfectly nice, functional touring bikes out there for 1/2 or 2/3 the price ....
Lannis
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I THINK I would like to own one, I'm just not sure why. ???
Matt
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Part of the question will be - What will the Motus provide that existing touring bikes won't provide?
Lannis
What Motus is unlikely to provide is a network of dealerships to provide on-the-road service for those many touring riders who don't "roll their own" like so many Guzzi riders do. I know at least one local doctor who rides with his wife (on her own bike) for mega-miles each summer. He can easily afford any bike(s) he wants, but rides ST-1300's instead of BMW's because "There's a competent Honda dealer in every little farm town, and it's too far between BMW dealerships to be worth the risk of that trip-killing trailer ride to the Big City if your Beemer breaks down."
When you factor in cost, reliability, and nationwide availability of parts & service for the Japanese Big Three or your Road King, a season of touring on anything else makes little "practical" sense -- which is why most Guzzi riders are at least somewhat capable of "keep 'er running" repairs. Buying a MOTUS for real touring makes little sense to me, unless the owner is so "fixed" that down-time in odd places is part of the attraction.
Still, I'm considering putting one of my own MV Augustas up for sale on eBay ::), 'cause there's something about the Motus that does call out "ride me," just a bit . . .
--mb
(Possible related WG Thread: "Is it OK to use 'practical' and 'motorcycle touring' in the same sentence?" )
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In my experience, these are extremely practical, seasoned riders. They are engineers, pilots, chemists, law enforcement officers... steady, reliable, logical people, who don't throw their money around and don't give a rat's ass what the fashion of the day is. I've already mentioned that the competition is a good $10 -$15 K less expensive. I have no doubt that the bike will appeal to these riders. There are also probably more than a few who can afford it. The question is whether they are going part with that much money to own one. I don't think so.
My bet is the people who buy one are the people who own an MV Augusta F3 and want a sport-tourer to park next to it.
-AJ
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...
...
Still, I'm considering putting one of my own MV Augustas up for sale on eBay ::), 'cause there's something about the Motus that does call out "ride me," just a bit . . .
--mb
...
There you go, demographic complete!
If I were willing to let one of My MVs ??? go, I would definitly buy a Motus too.
Frank
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There you go, demographic complete!
If I were willing to let one of My MVs ??? go, I would definitly buy a Motus too.
Frank
If I had an MV, I'd certainly sell it and buy a Motus! And I am UNANIMOUS in that!
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If I were willing to let one of My MVs ??? go, I would definitly buy a Motus too.
Frank
No problem, Frank -- I'm 'waaay more than willing to let go of one of your MV's !
Now if you'll just mail me the signed title, with a map to your place . . . ~;
--mb
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I am going to kick back and watch what son in law and daughter do.l Bet you I will be takeing one for a ride before the summer is out. ;D
Matt
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I wish Motus well but it's a pretty small, niche group that will/can spend that much money for an adult toy when there are so many less expensive, quality alternatives available. Maybe they know something that we don't know............... .but I'll be damned if i know what it is................. ..yet. Good luck to Motus.
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... Maybe they know something that we don't know............... .but I'll be damned if i know what it is..
I suspect that "something" lies somewhere between "There are a LOT of VERY rich people in the U.S."
and "A fool and his money are soon parted."
--mb
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Seems likeif you can afford a Lexus SUV or an AMG with the word Kompressor on it, you can afford a Motus. Plenty of them around here.
-AJ
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Seems likeif you can afford a Lexus SUV or an AMG with the word Kompressor on it, you can afford a Motus. Plenty of them around here.
-AJ
Yeah, but it's not affordability that I'm referring to. I think that many people who can afford a bike like Motus (and who want a new motorcycle) will make a "value judgement" and after looking at the competition (at much lower pricing), will many times opt for the lower priced bike. Being ABLE to afford something is one thing and comparative analysis is another. I just hope that the great folks at Riders Hill don't get stuck with inventory that they wind up selling at a loss to eventually get them off the floor.
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Picture from today (not taken by me) of a $60K toy in front of a local restaurant here in Blairsville.
(http://s18.postimage.org/jd2vzy4uh/303383_330243137045378_100001790840263_752558_80.jpg)
I think in this area, Motus will sell well. :)
-AJ
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Interesting bike in the background. ;)
-AJ
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Since this is the same forum that was bitterly criticising Piaggio and predicting MG's demise not that long ago, I'd say the future is bright for Motus. :^)
That's because they wanted a new engine and thought that was going to be the holy grail to Guzzi's success moving forward. Luckily they chose the right path of updating the old mill and coming out with some nice throw-back models. They are also much more "right" out of the box. I do wish Motus as much success. I will have to stick to my two cylinder Guzzi's.
-Kevin
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Seems likeif you can afford a Lexus SUV or an AMG with the word Kompressor on it, you can afford a Motus. Plenty of them around here.
-AJ
Neither "LEXUS", nor "AMG" will be on the tank of the "MOTUS".
The name of the new motorcycle carries no value/panache/credibility.
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Neither "LEXUS", nor "AMG" will be on the tank of the "MOTUS".
The name of the new motorcycle carries no value/panache/credibility.
People fly private jets here for the weekend. My point is they have the money. This is the kind of stuff they buy.
-AJ
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And my point is that they buy (nice, expensive) things with names that thier friends recognize.
"MOTUS" means nothing. It has no name recognition with thier friends.
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I don't believe that is true, but we will see.
-AJ
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I just hope that the great folks at Riders Hill don't get stuck with inventory that they wind up selling at a loss to eventually get them off the floor.
I'm sure that they aren't going to have them stacked up on the showroom floor. When they get a deposit from you, they will place the order.
They do still have a Griso SE collecting dust....hint hint DILLIW
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AJ... people don't always spend money to just spend money. There are a lot of people with money that are very savvy about their spending, as well as selective. That's why a lot of them HAVE money. You'll have to tell us how they come out in that market.
-Kevin
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I don't believe that is true, but we will see.
-AJ
I'd love for them to do well.
However, the name sucks and the pricepoint is at least $10,000 above where the MOTUS enthusiasts were hoping it would be.
I still predict about 100 streetbikes, then they're done.
Maybe they'll sell engines for use in other areas. Auto racing, Aero, whatever. Personally, I think that's a big part of thier strategy.
Or, maybe thier plan is to sell thier motorcycle to a bigger player. Polaris/Victory/Indian, maybe?
Who knows?
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AJ... people don't always spend money to just spend money. There are a lot of people with money that are very savvy about their spending, as well as selective. That's why a lot of them HAVE money. You'll have to tell us how they come out in that market.
-Kevin
Yeah, I know. I'm not 12.
-AJ
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AJ... people don't always spend money to just spend money. There are a lot of people with money that are very savvy about their spending, as well as selective. That's why a lot of them HAVE money. You'll have to tell us how they come out in that market.
-Kevin
Alas, Kev -- there's always that second generation, and their next generation. Don't forget that there are a lot of people with a lot of money who didn't do anything to earn or produce that money, other than being born. Somehow we get our fair share of them 'round here; I know a local guy in his 30's who was born into the 4th generation of Old Industrial Money in the northeastern U.S. This "kid" (he's about 16, maturity-wise) has never had a job, has a "base" income of more than $300K per year ("base" = how much I get if I don't call Daddy and ask for more, which of course I do, regularly), spends more than 100 days a year skiiing, and buys whatever he darned well pleases. Those folks will buy anything that will impress their friends, and anything that catches their flickering attention.
There's a lot of that in this land of ours -- offspring of the "self-made man" who have never learned (or needed to learn) that somebody put in some effort and years amassing the fortune. They don't have any notion of the value of money, and have minimal sense about how to conserve it. I guess it ain't a bad gig if you're born into it and don't know another viewpoint, but there's something so sad (and yes, annoying) about so many of those cluless, purposeless guys that I can't much stand to be around them, even the pleasant ones who act reasonably decent.
They there are the Mark Cuban sort of folks -- or our part-time local resident, John Elway -- who worked hard for what they got, have a true boatload of money (in Elway's case, that'd be a Cigarette Boat) that puts the price of a MOTUS down in the "petty cash" zone of their budget.
I'd still bet my whole monthly $1.87 "disposable income" that the MOTUS bikes won't survive in the long run: it's a nice-looking, solid sort of bike, but has nothing about it to call out to most guys with bucks to burn. Lexus built a reputation for quality-luxury across a lengthy market run. Porsche, Mercedes, Ferrari, etc. all worked for their fame across years of racing and savvy marketing of their state-of-their-art products. When you're trying to sell a "solid" product at twice the market price of an arguably just-as-solid competitor, you're trying to sell that Kompressor-sedan with a Maybach or Bentley pricetag. You may get a few buyers, but I'm not thinking you're going to take over anybody's market share.
Just my $2.63 worth . . .
--mb
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Alas, Kev -- there's always that second generation, and their next generation. Don't forget that there are a lot of people with a lot of money who didn't do anything to earn or produce that money, other than being born. Somehow we get our fair share of them 'round here; I know a local guy in his 30's who was born into the 4th generation of Old Industrial Money in the northeastern U.S. This "kid" (he's about 16, maturity-wise) has never had a job, has a "base" income of more than $300K per year ("base" = how much I get if I don't call Daddy and ask for more, which of course I do, regularly), spends more than 100 days a year skiiing, and buys whatever he darned well pleases. Those folks will buy anything that will impress their friends, and anything that catches their flickering attention.
There's a lot of that in this land of ours -- offspring of the "self-made man" who have never learned (or needed to learn) that somebody put in some effort and years amassing the fortune. They don't have any notion of the value of money, and have minimal sense about how to conserve it. I guess it ain't a bad gig if you're born into it and don't know another viewpoint, but there's something so sad (and yes, annoying) about so many of those cluless, purposeless guys that I can't much stand to be around them, even the pleasant ones who act reasonably decent.
They there are the Mark Cuban sort of folks -- or our part-time local resident, John Elway -- who worked hard for what they got, have a true boatload of money (in Elway's case, that'd be a Cigarette Boat) that puts the price of a MOTUS down in the "petty cash" zone of their budget.
I'd still bet my whole monthly $1.87 "disposable income" that the MOTUS bikes won't survive in the long run: it's a nice-looking, solid sort of bike, but has nothing about it to call out to most guys with bucks to burn. Lexus built a reputation for quality-luxury across a lengthy market run. Porsche, Mercedes, Ferrari, etc. all worked for their fame across years of racing and savvy marketing of their state-of-their-art products. When you're trying to sell a "solid" product at twice the market price of an arguably just-as-solid competitor, you're trying to sell that Kompressor-sedan with a Maybach or Bentley pricetag. You may get a few buyers, but I'm not thinking you're going to take over anybody's market share.
Just my $2.63 worth . . .
--mb
Totally agree with you! ;-T I'm thinking this bike won't catch the eye of most Mark Cuban types. It aint no West Coast Choppers or whatever they're called. Rolling art has a better chance than a practical rider like everyone else makes.
-Kevin
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Nothing going since March? Anybody heard anything? Last I know they came out with REALLY high prices. I was afraid they were finished before they started. Is this the case?
-Kevin
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Good question. I go on their Facebook page once in a while. They don't have any information on release dates. I checked their website and all I can find is late 2012. The last "news" story they have is from March. I really like the looks and design of the bikes, but at $31,000 for the base model and $37,000 for the touring model, I'll never be able to do anything but dream of owning one. Wasn't Rider's Hill going to be a distributor?
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Placards up at Riders Hill saying coming soon.
-AJ
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Shame they are so expensive, they look like awesome bikes.
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Just one thing confounds me, why in hell would you take a perfect longitudinal crankshaft engine & trans and turn 90 degrees to a chain drive?
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Todays chain is a very good product. Easy to service, you can change the rear drive ratio by playing with the sprockets and you don't have to worry about rear drives burning up. :)
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Just one thing confounds me, why in hell would you take a perfect longitudinal crankshaft engine & trans and turn 90 degrees to a chain drive?
I was thinking the same thing..
I've never worried about rear drives burning up, really? that's Beemer isn't it? if drive ratio is set for western US I'd have no need to change it so give me a shaft..
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Motus has been a little quiet since the price was announced. They have moved to a larger facility and are working on EPA stuff.
They lost a lot of interested parties when the prices were announced. I still am signed up for updates.
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Todays chain is a very good product.
What a crock ! I have 1 MC with an an o-ring chain and it's WAY overrrated in my experience. :P Your still lucky to go 20K miles before it and it's sprockets need replacement for $200. Even tho I lube my chain periodically if I get 20K miles out of it all I'm lucky. I have chain, belt and shaft drive vehicles. BS me once, shame on you......... ::) Or is 20k miles longevity OK with you ?
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What a crock ! I have 1 MC with an an o-ring chain and it's WAY overrrated in my experience. :P Your still lucky to go 20K miles before it and it's sprockets need replacement for $200. Even tho I lube my chain periodically if I get 20K miles out of it all I'm lucky. I have chain, belt and shaft drive vehicles. BS me once, shame on you......... ::) Or is 20k miles longevity OK with you ?
Amen Brother! It's shaft drive or nothing for me. At least on the bike(s) I would use for everyday/long distance stuff. A chain or belt drive would be alright on a bike I kept in the stable just for novelty or the occasional ride, but at 31 big ones! I would need a shaft!
Skippy
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Back in the day 10K was a long time for a chain. Today 20K+ is the norm if taken care of. Then you buy new chain and sprockets and you have a whole new drive train.
So a chain IS a very good product. But you have choices; shaft, belt or chain. Your money your choice, I really don't care which one you choose.
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After about 1/4 million miles on chains it's shaft drive for me now. ;-T
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I prefer shaft drive but find many advantages to chain drive as well. The new dry wax lubes have eased chain maintenance and the ease of changing drive ratios is a real plus. Changing sprockets and chains every 15-20 thousand miles is a bit pricey but is easily done at home with the right tools and you save the labor costs.
As for Motus, I think that going to a chain drive on a premium priced bike was a mistake. All of the large sport-touring bikes today have shaft drive and with the Motus engine oriented as it is seems a natural for a shaft. Chain drive may prove a tough selling point for such an expensive motorcycle.
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The chain on my ST2 has over 23K and appears to be doing OK. Based upon its current condition I expect 30K at least. What an I doing wrong? Could just using Gl-5 as a lubricant be the problem or should I switch to chain wax?
Matt
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Didn't mean to make this a shaft vs chain thread, but looks like from what some others have witnessed that Motus is stuck in the mud at the moment. Sure they may be working out EPA stuff etc. but that doesn't mean they need to hide during the most prominent time of the year and riding season. They can still put it out there as before! Something's up and it's not just their price-point. Maybe they're going through it piece by piece and replacing all the metal bits with plastic to bring down the price. :P
Kevin
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When a company that has been doing tons of promotion to launch a new product suddenly goes silent, it's a bad sign. Maybe they have run out of money or discovered a serious design flaw. If they had something positive to say, I suspect they'd be saying it.
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Just looked at the site. Some ugly bike. Why are the saddlebags so high up? I would need a step ladder to swing my leg over them.
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They did have some fueling problems, I suspect they got worse trying to pass EPA standards and they have an ill running machine with a high price tag to sort out, and perhaps non enough funding. Saw em at the Rock Store, looked good in person, sat on one, was comfortable and not heavy if you're used to a guzzi
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The chain on my ST2 has over 23K and appears to be doing OK. Based upon its current condition I expect 30K at least. What an I doing wrong? Could just using Gl-5 as a lubricant be the problem or should I switch to chain wax?
Matt
Are you saying you don't lube your chain? I use chain wax on mine.
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I love the Motus. And the price doesn't bother me. It could be $17K and I still could not afford one. My only niggle with it is the exhaust system. It looks redneck built to me. Not pretty and refined.
-AJ
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Are you saying you don't lube your chain? I use chain wax on mine.
I use the same oil I use in the transmission and final drive on mine and with something over 23K and going strong. I have used Chain Wax and got 17K on my BMW F650GS. I use both bikes the same way, be seen at Starbucks and 1000 mile trips from time to time but mostly to be seen at Starbucks. GL-5 can be abit ofa mess compared to chain wax.
Matt
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Well I've used virgin olive oil on my BSA chain and have had 200 trouble free miles! :BEER: :BEER: :BEER:
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I use the same oil I use in the transmission and final drive on mine and with something over 23K and going strong. I have used Chain Wax and got 17K on my BMW F650GS. I use both bikes the same way, be seen at Starbucks and 1000 mile trips from time to time but mostly to be seen at Starbucks. GL-5 can be abit ofa mess compared to chain wax.
Matt
I use 80/90 weight gear oil on mine. I dump a little on the end of an old toothbrush and scrub it in to the chain. Takes about 5 minutes to do the whole thing. Just over 27k miles on the DR's and it's still going strong. Sprockets look factory new.
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Not a chain vs. shaft debate at all! The very first time I saw this bike I got into the argument with a good friend of mine " why chain?" I said. He said som crap about efficiency. I say BS!
Like has already been said, you want to sell a bike Priced alongside beemers, hogs, guzzi, etc., you better show up with something better than a 520 o-ringer. I mean come on. This is what really gets me about engineers! Your sitting at the drafting table with sOmething new and you do THAT!
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A dozen Motus threads now at your fingertips in one convenient place... Motus merged threadfest.
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A dozen Motus threads now at your fingertips in one convenient place... Motus merged threadfest.
Mr.Rocker :bow
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GE Capital's Commercial Distribution Finance (CDF) business has agreed to provide Motus Motorcycles with inventory financing to support the expansion of its dealer network in the U.S.
The Birmingham, AL-based manufacturer was founded four years ago to produce premium American-made sport-touring motorcycles. Recently, Motus launched production plans for the 2013 line, its first model year.
CDF provides inventory financing for numerous brands of motorsports products, both established and emerging. This type of arrangement, also known as floorplan financing, allows dealers to stock, market and sell a wide variety of motorcycles and related products from manufacturers. It's an important element of a successful manufacturer-dealer business model.
Motus is extremely proud to announce our financing relationship with GE Capital, said Lee Conn, founder and president of Motus Motorcycles. We believe stable floorplan financing will encourage more high-caliber motorcycle dealers to add Motus to their current product mix.
Our deep expertise in the motorcycle sector allows us to support both existing and new products in the marketplace, said Neeraj Mehta, president and CEO of CDF. We're glad to work with Motus to encourage innovation and drive adoption of leading-edge technologies in the growing motorsports industry.
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One more hurdle they've crossed.
Hope they make a go of it!
Lannis
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Now to present a quality product that establishes a customer support/passion base strong enough to keep the maker around long enough to get past the inevitable "editor's" torpedoing and following lack of enthusiasm. I foresee having to overcome aggressive literary gestures oriented to prove a lack of American bias when/if it hits the streets.
I hope they find a way to piggy-back dealerships with a complimenting maker like Polaris/Victory or Can Am or the like.
I know I want one and intend to buy one as the "Buell" that never got built for me.
(http://s11.postimage.org/m38jlrrv3/motus_mst_r_hero.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/m38jlrrv3/)
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Or Guzzi dealer. ;D
-AJ
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The motor is capable of some real good HP, past 200 is what I was told by mfg.
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Or Guzzi dealer. ;D
-AJ
Not funny! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Not funny! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
But true.
-AJ
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See what a V4 Guzzi could have been: http://www.motusmotorcycles.com/mst-01.html
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See what a V4 Guzzi could have been: http://www.motusmotorcycles.com/mst-01.html
merged into the threadfest.
remember the search function.
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So, now that these bikes are (almost) real, have there been any ride reports on them? I'm looking at that V4, and assume there is a BIG radiator just behind the front forks, and a big gap between the cylinders for all that hot air to go......where? Chestnuts roasting on the open fire? :o ???
Re. someone asking about ABS, TSC, etc., I assume the Motus dev team is happy as pigs in slop just to get the basic bike out the door. That stuff could add months if not years to the dev cycle and I'm guessing their investors wanted to see some bikes for sale sooner vs. later (which also was the likely reason DI bit the dust). Maybe that stuff will show up in a few years, assuming they're still around then.....
-NV
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I love the Motus. My only niggle with it is the exhaust system. It looks redneck built to me. Not pretty and refined.
-AJ
Park her next to a Buell ;D :BEER:
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Isn't Motus now in a building formally used by Mr. Barber of Barbers Motorsports in downtown Birmingham?
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Taken @ barbers Saturday.
(http://s12.postimage.org/hinp5nfp5/DSCF5263.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/hinp5nfp5/)
and a few pic's taken @ same place last year...
(http://s11.postimage.org/675bpnahr/DSCF3602.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/675bpnahr/)
(http://s15.postimage.org/40fii1b3b/DSCF3604.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/40fii1b3b/)
Here's to hoping these things are being sold @ dealerships between now and Barber's Vintage Days NEXT year!!!
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Here`s an email response from Motus yesterday where I voiced concerns most of us have on their pricing.
Hi Ken, thanks for the inspiring email. We appreciate your support, even if it'd be tough for you to justify the price of the first MST's.
As a historical reference, the 1908 Model T was $850, but got down to $260 by 1924 as Ford increased their volume and enjoyed some economies of scale. Our goal is to build the most exciting and desirable American motorcycles possible, so we selected the finest materials and components available to build the MST's (carbon fiber bodywork, Sargent saddles, ultra lightweight 4130 chromoly chassis, Ohlins, Brembo, Akropovic, National Cycle, digital LCD/TFT gauges, 20,000 mile chain, lifetime warranty sprocket, forged aluminum OZ wheels, etc).
And, there is an incredible amount of craftsmanship that goes into each bike- by actual humans! You likely won't need to replace things like the seat, controls, windscreen, pipes, etc because we haven't cut corners and the maintenance costs are very low with our use of hydraulic valvetrain (100,000 mile inspection recommended).
So, while the MST's are more expensive than mass produced Asian or European bikes, in the same way hand made hardwood cabinets are much more expensive than pre-fab Lowe's cabinets, we hope that some riders will appreciate the value we've tried to build into the machines from the factory. Plus, they sound like the files attached.....
Anyway, thanks for reaching out. Stay in touch and feel free to come by our facility if you are ever in our area.
Ride safely!
Lee Conn president
Latest Motus news on Facebook
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So, we intend to be a small supplier of hand-built motorcycles, made of the finest materials, and sell small numbers for the forseeable future. sigh.
I wish them success, but would really like to see them make an affordable US made motorcycle that folks od reasonable means can afford..
...
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The problem is that their starting price is at least $10K off the mark. So, if their plan is to get a few out the door and then start lowering prices, who is going to volunteer to be the early adopters, knowing that they are going to take at least a $10,000 depreciation hit? As a rule, people with stupid money are not stupid.
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Jay Leno seems to have no $ limit or space. :)
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^^^^ Yes, but the motto of his garage is: "More money than brains."
Okay, so consider Mr. Leno's Motus pre-sold. That makes one....
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They have an exhibit at Barber's ea year. My eyes went directly to the chain drive because I wondered the same thing? I wish now I had taken a pic of the chain it looked like something Caterpillar would use. To say it was ROBUST would be the understatement of the year. They told me adj (oil, Tighten etc about every 700 miles?) Also had the opportunity to visit Eric Buell's tent and see his SUPERBIKES he was building. I believe they built only about 700 units @ around $40K ea.
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My eyes went directly to the chain drive because I wondered the same thing? I wish now I had taken a pic of the chain it looked like something Caterpillar would use.
I've not seen a MOTUS up close, but is it not just a 630 x-ring chain?
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I read it has an XW-ring chain by RK rated at 20k miles & a "hybrid" rear sprocket w/ lifetime warrenty.
Thats all I could find out.
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^^^^ Yes, but the motto of his garage is: "More money than brains."
What makes you say that? I find him to be a true enthusiast albeit with lot`s of money. He does a fair amount of wrenching and is quite knowledgeable. I also find him humble and not in your face about what he buys and can afford.
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What makes you say that?
Three reasons:
1. Jay Leno has said this about himself and his car / motorcycle obsession, on a number of occasions. See, e.g., http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/extras/articles/now-thats-a-hot-rod---article/index.shtml#item=66616
2. Leno frequently refers to aficionados of exotic automobiles as members of the "more money than brains" club, and he enthusiastically includes himself as a member.
2. IIRC, if you visit Jay Leno's Big Dog Garage, there is a sign hung over the door, which has this as the shop's motto. (I recall this last point from a video on his website, but I couldn't find the image with a quick Google search.)
It's meant as a self-deprecating, tongue-in-cheek comment on the highs and lows of a very expensive hobby You're supposed to laugh at the comment, not attack it. Maybe you need to lighten up?
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And zero down, low rates and up to 84 months financing.
...7yrs.!! :o, hell, just pay cash for that sucker.
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If their "high-end stuff" is so expensive to justify their pricing, maybe they should consider the necessities only to reduce it. Is carbon fiber really necessary on a non-racebike? What's a few ounces here and there on a touring bike? Some of it seems like overkill to me for what it is. You don't just throw the best at a bike, then price it way out of the market price unless you have some goal other than volume. It's a sport-tourer not a sport bike where the goal is to win at all costs.
-Kevin
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This is an interesting looking machine. Has anyone seen one in person yet?
http://www.motusmotorcycles.com/index.html
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As far as I have heard, we can't buy one yet, even if we want to.
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Yeah, I've seen one a while back. They're made not too far from me and our local BMW dealer has signed up as a Motus dealer.
I dunno. The one I saw seemed too crude to me. Maybe they have refined it. It's not going to be cheap. A few will sell as novelty bikes but I am not sure the major manufacturers are in for much competition from Motus for a while.
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Yeah, I've seen one a while back. They're made not too far from me and our local BMW dealer has signed up as a Motus dealer.
I dunno. The one I saw seemed too crude to me. Maybe they have refined it. It's not going to be cheap. A few will sell as novelty bikes but I am not sure the major manufacturers are in for much competition from Motus for a while.
What, if you have to know they(2models) start @ $30K to $37K, then they're too rich for your blood. ??? But if you're interested you can buy a motor separately. :drool
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They seemed to be going along great, then they came to a halt. Seems like they are going through some difficulties to me.
Kevin
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This is an interesting looking machine. Has anyone seen one in person yet?
http://www.motusmotorcycles.com/index.html
Welcome to the MOTUS Merged Threadfest! :BEER:
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They seemed to be going along great, then they came to a halt. Seems like they are going through some difficulties to me.
Kevin
Long road going from prototypes, design change (no GDI), to dealer setup, to EPA approval (big delay), to limited production, to bikes people can see.
They had very agressive plans and have not met any of the expected 'dates' that they shared. I think they stopped sharing dates because nay-sayers would keep blasting them for it.
I think you will see 2013 models. Not sure how many, but I predict the pre-orders will be filled. I was going to be a pre-order until the prices shot up over $25k.
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I think they are going along slowly, and cautiously, so as not to go defunked soon after production starts like Henderson.
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I think they are going along slowly, and cautiously, so as not to go defunked soon after production starts like Henderson.
EH was an interesting case in venture capitalists. They had a dream, promised a ROI, built a plant big enough to meet the ROI, burn through all your money in infrastructure, don't get enough sales to stay afloat.
Motus isn't begging for money to even going down the EH road. They have a plan to go the other way- sell a high price, high value, 'dream' bike that is limited production. They are building a bike they wanted to own. I was totally on board all the way to the price announcement and dropping GDI. I feel the bike is at least $6k too high for the above average motorcycle nut to pull the trigger on. I never thought it would be in the same price ball park as even a Ducati, but it is in the Bimota type ball park...ick.
I'm sure they will do just fine. I read the email from the founder and just don't see how they can get enough of a foothold to lower prices.
Still interested in having them be successful. We need more US startups like this.
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http://thekneeslider.com/
Well,
They're crating and selling engines now! Yep... just over $10k and one is yours. Unbelievable they'd do this, but makes me think they are feeling nervous about selling the bikes and want to recoup their investment. What it doesn't do is make you want to feel special about owning their bike because of the special engine in it. The engine is their bike and now it's for sale to anyone. Doesn't sound good.
-Kevin
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Kev - thinking about an article I read a while back ..... I believe they planned to resell their powerplant as a crate engine from the start. I'd still be nervous about finding too many customers for the Motus. Not inexpensive, for sure.
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Who's going to work on them? ??? ???
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Kev - thinking about an article I read a while back ..... I believe they planned to resell their powerplant as a crate engine from the start. I'd still be nervous about finding too many customers for the Motus. Not inexpensive, for sure.
That may be true, but before they've really sold any bikes seems a little absurd. So... the rest of their bike is worth 20K seems even more absurd. Maybe they will part out the rest of it. Anyone want a headlamp for $2K? I'm being a bone-head I realize, but I had so much hope for these guys (edit:as a bike manufacturer).
-Kevin
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I wouldn't ever spend that kind of money on a bike but when you consider that HD is getting close to 30K for a CVO bike, it doesn't seem that outlandish for truely new and unique bike. There are no other American sport tourers out there. I think Eric Buells' current race bike is close to 40K and that's a full on race bike. As for the others Victory etc. they are just big ol' cruiser chopper things. So, I think they will sell bikes and if they want to sell a crate engine, it gives other builders a platform to experiment with. I hope it goes well for them.
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How heavy is it?
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http://thekneeslider.com/
Well,
They're crating and selling engines now! Yep... just over $10k and one is yours. Unbelievable they'd do this, but makes me think they are feeling nervous about selling the bikes and want to recoup their investment. What it doesn't do is make you want to feel special about owning their bike because of the special engine in it. The engine is their bike and now it's for sale to anyone. Doesn't sound good.
-Kevin
Seems smart to me. Generate some cash without having to have a lot of overhead. Help increase the number of engines built, allowing them to reduce the cost a little.
Motus has chosen the start with low volume and high price as a way of getting the company off the ground. This allows them to not spend so much in facilities, tooling, people, etc. but requires them to find buyers willing to spend serious coin on their machine. That means they need to generate buzz, go to moto events, do a lot of promotional stuff, which also has costs attached. If they find and convince enough people with bug bucks to buy, they can start spending some money on ways to reduce cost, which will allow them to lower the price making it easier to sell, etc. There aren't a lot of bikers with money to burn so they need a pretty compelling product or your doomed. The Norton and Vincent resurrections would fall into the low volume/high price strategy companies. Hasn't gone so well for them.
Alternatively, they can try to raise enough money where they can build a whole factory capable of doing high volumes so that they can start out with a lower price and help grow sales faster. That makes it easier to sell units initially but they need enough money to carry the whole thing till volume grows and it seems that everyone underestimates that amount. Indian (the Gilroy one) and EH went that route but had to leverage themselves so much that even when sales got better it wasn't enough to pay off all the investors.
In both cases, its just damned hard to generate enough revenue to support the organization until it can stand on it's own. Even if Motus only sells a handful of engines a year, it can go a long way to improving their cash flow and may make the difference between success and failure.
I wouldn't invest any hard earned money on Motus but I do hope they succeed.
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Hellava motor for a Triking. Look at Rotax 990's, you can buy one from Aprilia or BRP and go w/more than a couple management systems.
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Hellava motor for a Triking. Look at Rotax 990's, you can buy one from Aprilia or BRP and go w/more than a couple management systems.
A Motus is one of those things I'd like to have but will probably never have the right amount of money at the right time ......
Lannis
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Hellava motor for a Triking. Look at Rotax 990's, you can buy one from Aprilia or BRP and go w/more than a couple management systems.
I can't imagine a V4 on the front of a Triking that looks proper. Especially 1 that's water cooled. :D
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Hellava motor for a Triking.
And don't doubt that some of the builders are already working towards that... Someone like Ace Cyclecar...
:BEER:
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Seems smart to me. Generate some cash without having to have a lot of overhead. Help increase the number of engines built, allowing them to reduce the cost a little.
Motus has chosen the start with low volume and high price as a way of getting the company off the ground. This allows them to not spend so much in facilities, tooling, people, etc. but requires them to find buyers willing to spend serious coin on their machine. That means they need to generate buzz, go to moto events, do a lot of promotional stuff, which also has costs attached. If they find and convince enough people with bug bucks to buy, they can start spending some money on ways to reduce cost, which will allow them to lower the price making it easier to sell, etc. There aren't a lot of bikers with money to burn so they need a pretty compelling product or your doomed. The Norton and Vincent resurrections would fall into the low volume/high price strategy companies. Hasn't gone so well for them.
Alternatively, they can try to raise enough money where they can build a whole factory capable of doing high volumes so that they can start out with a lower price and help grow sales faster. That makes it easier to sell units initially but they need enough money to carry the whole thing till volume grows and it seems that everyone underestimates that amount. Indian (the Gilroy one) and EH went that route but had to leverage themselves so much that even when sales got better it wasn't enough to pay off all the investors.
In both cases, its just damned hard to generate enough revenue to support the organization until it can stand on it's own. Even if Motus only sells a handful of engines a year, it can go a long way to improving their cash flow and may make the difference between success and failure.
I wouldn't invest any hard earned money on Motus but I do hope they succeed.
I don't buy your theory of keep the price high and only sell a few so as to keep overhead low, etc. it's hard to go anywhere when you sell so few. If they sell more at a lower price it creates a buzz. Bottom line is they need to sell bikes. Lots of bikes to succeed. High prices won't do that. Sellings parts on their bikes won't be enough either. The engine is cool, but I can't think the masses are going to buy it for anything cept a few who might find a way to have some fun with it. I don't think they're clearing that much per engine anyhow. So far they have disappointed me. They should find investors instead of selling engines. That's the one part they should never let go of if they really want to sell their bikes. The panache is gone for me with this move. Hell, it's like KFC selling off their recipe. That secret helps to sell their product.
One other thing... I think they realize they did well in designing a bike with that engine, but it's a bike engine and that's what people want it for. It makes sense, especially for us Guzzi types ('cept no shaft??). Anyhow, they are spinning their wheels lately for sure, but now they are going to let someone else do it with their engine instead of having to buy their bike to get that engine. Sorry, but their bike is that engine!! Unique for sure. Who really thinks the other bits are that cool to pay 30K for a bike of theirs? Build your own now. They are making out $20K on the other stuff per bike minimally. Tell me where they'd be making their money, engine or other bits? The sum of the whole is worth a lot more than that engine it seems. Stupid.
-Kevin
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Here is a link to a video of 3 Motus motorcycles undergoing road testing in Utah.
http://canadamotoguide.com/2013/10/07/video-motus-tests-utah/
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Here is a link to a video of 3 Motus motorcycles undergoing road testing in Utah.
http://canadamotoguide.com/2013/10/07/video-motus-tests-utah/
Been a year since we've heard a peep out of them, I figured them to be stillborn for 2012. Can't look at the video from here, but is this really a 2013 test or something from the archives?
I like the concept, just not much hope.
Lannis
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The article is dated today and the video is of 2014 models.
Video: Motus tests in Utah
By Zac Kurylyk On October 7, 2013
Motus hasn’t made much news lately, but the upstart made-in-America manufacturer is still working on bringing their cycles to market in 2014.
The V4-powered bikes won’t feature gasoline direct injection, as originally planned, but they are still building them around a motor that’s based on a Chevy small-block V8. However, unlike other bikes that were built around car motors simply for bragging rights (cough cough, Boss Hoss, cough cough), the Motus machines are designed with actual sporty performance in mind.
You can see the Motus MST and MST-R undergoing road testing in Utah in the YouTube clip below.
Direct link to video: http://youtu.be/1OnJnuW_550 (http://youtu.be/1OnJnuW_550) Lovely scenery and nice-looking bikes.
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I like this one....
http://canadamotoguide.com/2011/04/26/motus-releases-mst-track-day-video/
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With the longitudinally mounted engine, one would think that shaft drive wouldn't been the natural way to go for final drive.
There is a lot to like about the Motus, but the price point certainly places it out of reach for most. I think $20k would've been a lot better price point for this bike.
I wish them well, and maybe with higher volume, the price can come down.
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Maybe they are hanging on until Polaris buys them out!
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Maybe they are hanging on until Polaris buys them out!
LOL.
I can't imagine this effort being successful. The Honda VFR 1200 is a similar bike, with a large V-4 engine and similar mission, and it was a failure in the marketplace because most potential buyers were turned off by the price ($16K base; around $20K with full touring accessories) and its neither fish-nor-fowl nature. (It's neither a great sport bike nor a great touring bike.) The Motus will be significantly more expensive than the Viffer, and while it might perform better and be more exclusive, it won't have Honda's reputation for reliability or its dealer network.
The Motus engine's exhaust note is glorious, though.
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LOL.
I can't imagine this effort being successful. The Honda VFR 1200 is a similar bike, with a large V-4 engine and similar mission, and it was a failure in the marketplace because most potential buyers were turned off by the price ($16K base; around $20K with full touring accessories) and its neither fish-nor-fowl nature. (It's neither a great sport bike nor a great touring bike.) The Motus will be significantly more expensive than the Viffer, and while it might perform better and be more exclusive, it won't have Honda's reputation for reliability or its dealer network.
The Motus engine's exhaust note is glorious, though.
Sadly, Honda no longer sells the VFR800 here, even though they still make it and sell it elsewhere.
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I like sport touring bikes my BMW R1100s was an excellent bike so it's good to see a American non v-twin motorcyle. It is similar to look at to the Honda VFR1200 which got bad press in the U.K. for it's limited range and was introduced when the whole adventure bike thing took off.
Sport tourers aren't the flavour of the month right now so sales may be limited which is a shame if it's any good.
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Rumors are floating around the motorcycle web sites that some versions will soon be back to compete against the new Yamaha Triples.
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http://motusmotorcycles.com
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http://motusmotorcycles.com
Two things Motus isn't at the price point of Guzzi well unless you are talking MGS-01 territory, Motus biggest market will be the USA with a buy local thing, Guzzi's biggest market is Germany basically I'm saying I don't see the two as direct competitors. Unless you are alluding to the engine configuration will make them competitors where Motus has a lot more in common with the Honda ST series than Guzzi.
I am one of the people who look forward to a modern motor from Guzzi with some modern performance but I doubt Piaggio and the guys and girls who are running Guzzi will give a dead rats whatsit what Motus is doing.
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I would rather have a drive shaft than a chain drive. The chain give more options for the bike owner to change the final ratio to something that suits their use.
I would guess the cost of a transmission and the extra length to the wheel base was a consideration. The gearbox on a Honda ST1100 (V4/shaft drive) is about 9". Not a big deal on a sport Touring bike with the emphasis on touring.
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I'm not big on white, but, I think that these look stunning in black and white.
(http://silodrome.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Motus-MST-Motorcycle-1.jpg)
(http://image.motorcyclistonline.com/f/firstrides/122_1110_2012_motus_mst_r/38177931%2Bw799%2Bh499%2Bcr1%2Bar0/122-1110-01-o%252B2012-motus-mst-r%252B.jpg)
I hope they sell well enough to allow Motus to develop some higher volume models. I'd love to see a 75-90 HP 400-450 lbs light SPORT tourer; something to compete against the BMW F800GT and F800ST.
If they could sell it for under $14k, I'd definitely be in the market for it. I really want to buy an American-made motorcycle, but the cruiser-style V-twins being made here, though beautiful to look at, and excellent motorcycles for their intended market, are not what I'm after. It could be a V4 or V-twin (smooth 90 degree please), it really doesn't matter. I suspect the twin is much more likely to hit the cost goals. Also, please make it shaft or belt drive, and if a belt, not a $400 one like the BMW F800.
With all the other American manufactures all pretty much making the same style bikes, it is great to see one go after a different part of the market. I wish them well!
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Anyone heard from "Motus" lately?
Their website is still active, you can order a motor from them, they list upcoming dealers, and the concept seems reasonable (although we're all prepped to hear $30,000+ MSRP).
But it's 2015 and I haven't seen or heard of any actually being in production and sold through a dealer to a regular guy who says "Hey, look at my new Motus, it's great!"
Has anyone, yet?
Lannis
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Saw a brief write-up this month in..can't remember the mag, but they liked it. Even though it didn't have all the electronic "technology" of it's competition.
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Except for the cover of Motorcyclist this month, I've not heard a peep. Not on my radar anyway.
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Except for the cover of Motorcyclist this month, I've not heard a peep. Not on my radar anyway.
Saw a brief write-up this month in Motorcyclist they liked it. Even though it didn't have all the electronic "technology" of it's competition.
Peter
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I have heard that they are having some technical problems, something about eating up flywheels. Delivery has been pushed back a bit.
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$30,975 165HP,123lb ft torq, Ohlins fork, 585#wet.. Motus MST.. Motorcyclist says available now and at the rear wheel-140hp/105 torq.
it has a fairing and hard bags it doesn't call out to me at all.. looks like a BMW.
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$30,975 165HP,123lb ft torq, Ohlins fork, 585#wet.. Motus MST.. Motorcyclist says available now and at the rear wheel-140hp/105 torq.
it has a fairing and hard bags it doesn't call out to me at all.. looks like a BMW.
I can understand the appearance thing, some, but it DOES speak to me.
I just wonder whether cash flow is going to kill them a-borning... they've had to pay for all the facilities, all the material, all the labor, all the publiciity, all the engineering, all the testing, and it's been years and they've got nothing coming in, unless it's very bold investor money.
I'd have to have some sort of windfall in my pocket to pay the price, though; but if I had it I think I'd sign up.
Lannis
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REDLINE PERFORMANCE MOTORSPORTS
7331 George Washington Memorial Parkway
Yorktown, VA 23692
757-989-5000
Dean
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I like the look and would love to hear one. Price is a bit on the steep side however!
GliderJohn
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I wish them luck, personally I wouldn't buy a new out of the box bike from a new company until it has been around a few years. JMO.
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Anyone heard from "Motus" lately?
Their website is still active, you can order a motor from them, they list upcoming dealers, and the concept seems reasonable (although we're all prepped to hear $30,000+ MSRP).
But it's 2015 and I haven't seen or heard of any actually being in production and sold through a dealer to a regular guy who says "Hey, look at my new Motus, it's great!"
Has anyone, yet?
Lannis
$30k? Well my brother bought a Beemer 1600 GTL loaded, so I guess there are buyers out there. A certain kind of buyer for sure.
(I was able to explain to him how to roll the bike on the center stand. He was able to do it on the 2nd try. I guess that's what older brothers are for.)
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Anyone else disappointed that they chose to put the bevel gears in the transmission and use a chain final drive? The article implied they did that for cost savings, citing the added specialized castings that would be needed.
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Anyone else disappointed that they chose to put the bevel gears in the transmission and use a chain final drive? The article implied they did that for cost savings, citing the added specialized castings that would be needed.
Yeah, I was wondering if the "flywheel" issues are related to the bevel gear deal..
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Yeah, I was wondering if the "flywheel" issues are related to the bevel gear deal..
They are talking about installing some sort of cush drive to eliminate the current problem.
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Modern chains are a marvel, light cost effective very little maintenance easy to change. Don't want to start a fight here, just my experience with both types of drives.
IMO
mike :-)
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Really. Is the flywheel bolted to the end of the crankshaft, or attached to the shaft spun by the bevel?
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By the time they get it to market, it will be due for an update! :BEER:
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Modern chains are a marvel, light cost effective very little maintenance easy to change. Don't want to start a fight here, just my experience with both types of drives.
IMO
mike :-)
Very true , but the design requires turning the drive 90 degrees , why not use a shaft ? Hello Mike ;-T
Dusty
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Point taken.
Drive line orientation is a factor for sure.
Those that prefer the blip to go sideways will favor the shaft. I won't be converting my CX or Beemer to a chain, but chains (modern) get an undeserved bad rap!
I'm rambling again, my apologies.
mike :-)
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Those that prefer the blip to go sideways will favor the shaft.
The engine's going to cause the sideways blip with a chain or a shaft. :)
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My point is that if sideways, makes sense to keep it longitudinal. If not, makes sense to keep a chain.
At least IMO as a mechanical type.
mike
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The engine's going to cause the sideways blip with a chain or a shaft. :)
I'm not challenging this but what happens if the flywheel is 90 degrees to the crankshaft, or if in the same plane spins in the opposite direction?
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The engine's going to cause the sideways blip with a chain or a shaft. :)
Seems like they are using a counter shaft to minimize the torque reaction .
Dusty
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By them selling their engines they are under-cutting their bikes. I understand they need money but they are cutting their own throats with this plan if they want to build their bike business. The engine is the mainstay of their bike, now they're saying here you go...
They are confused it seems. Parting out a bike before it's built doesn't look good to investors IMO.
WHERE'S CHUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Agreed that the effect can be reduced or eliminated with a little clever design. I have no idea if the Motus engineers completely eliminated the sideways torque reaction, but my guess is that they did not. I find that effect completely unimportant, and don't even notice it any more, when I'm riding my Guzzi.
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By them selling their engines they are under-cutting their bikes. I understand they need money but they are cutting their own throats with this plan if they want to build their bike business. The engine is the mainstay of their bike, now they're saying here you go...
They are confused it seems. Parting out a bike before it's built doesn't look good to investors IMO.
Or, you could look at it as diversification.
The engine was developed with installation in mini race cars in mind , so the motorcycle is only part of the plan.
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I can understand the appearance thing, some, but it DOES speak to me.
I just wonder whether cash flow is going to kill them a-borning... they've had to pay for all the facilities, all the material, all the labor, all the publiciity, all the engineering, all the testing, and it's been years and they've got nothing coming in, unless it's very bold investor money.
I'd have to have some sort of windfall in my pocket to pay the price, though; but if I had it I think I'd sign up.
Lannis
Remember Sidney Conn, the Guzzi hot air balloon and LSR guy? He's the dad of the president of Motus. Being a Guzzi Guy, I got to sit on one and start it up. It is surprisingly comfortable for an inseam challenged guy like me, and I loved the riding position. Sounds bitchin, too.
That said, I told them that I thought they were missing their demographic. The bike is targeted to testosterone riddled younger sport touring guys, and the only people that have enough money to buy it are older. <shrug> It's a cool concept, and I wish them well, though.
There has to have been someone with extremely deep pockets financing this operation.. a complete startup like this comes with staggering costs.
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Or, you could look at it as diversification.
The engine was developed with installation in mini race cars in mind , so the motorcycle is only part of the plan.
Agreed... but a stretch to say it's better for those applications. It's harder to make a Motorcycle engine than a car or cart engine because of it's size, etc. I have to think they did it for the motorcycle first, had issues, then said "hey... we need to stay afloat, so lets sell our cool engine". Well... good and all at first, until word has it you can buy the engine for X cost (which isn't that high from what I read), then realize their bikes are $30k plus and the other bits on the bike don't add up, so you say lets get the engine only or screw them for trying to shaft me on the bike as the sum of the parts doesn't add up. If they have a big "in" with this engine and they can make a mint, I think that's a great route, but I think it was plan B for them. If it doesn't work out, they look like they sold out and the outcome won't look so peachy. The exclusivity is gone for sure.
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What do these bikes weigh? The website just gives the engine-transmission weight (225lbs) but not the entire bikes weight.
http://motusmotorcycles.com/files/Spec-sheets_MSTR15.pdf
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What do these bikes weigh? The website just gives the engine-transmission weight (225lbs) but not the entire bikes weight.
http://motusmotorcycles.com/files/Spec-sheets_MSTR15.pdf
I can't tell you, but just standing over it, it *feels* really light.
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What do these bikes weigh? The website just gives the engine-transmission weight (225lbs) but not the entire bikes weight.
http://motusmotorcycles.com/files/Spec-sheets_MSTR15.pdf
585 lbs
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Agreed... but a stretch to say it's better for those applications. It's harder to make a Motorcycle engine than a car or cart engine because of it's size, etc. I have to think they did it for the motorcycle first, had issues, then said "hey... we need to stay afloat, so lets sell our cool engine". Well... good and all at first, until word has it you can buy the engine for X cost (which isn't that high from what I read), then realize their bikes are $30k plus and the other bits on the bike don't add up, so you say lets get the engine only or screw them for trying to shaft me on the bike as the sum of the parts doesn't add up. If they have a big "in" with this engine and they can make a mint, I think that's a great route, but I think it was plan B for them. If it doesn't work out, they look like they sold out and the outcome won't look so peachy. The exclusivity is gone for sure.
The engine was developed for multi-use. Remember, it's half a Chevrolet small block V8. Downsized a bit. It's actually called the "baby block".
Development was dramatically reduced due to the engine being based on current Corvette LT engine architecture.
Everything I've read since the start was that the engine was intended to be sold for use in racecars and ATV/UTVs as well as be used in the motorcycle.
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585#wet..
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The engine was developed for multi-use. Remember, it's half a Chevrolet small block V8. Downsized a bit. It's actually called the "baby block".
Development was dramatically reduced due to the engine being based on current Corvette LT engine architecture.
Everything I've read since the start was that the engine was intended to be sold for use in racecars and ATV/UTVs as well as be used in the motorcycle.
According to the Motorcyclist article; the motor is loosely based on the Chevy motor but parts do not interchange. Development seems to be going along just fine, and they are doing production bikes now.
The flywheel problem was not mentioned in the article; I wonder if that came up after the article was written and too late for publication.
I sat on a preproduction mule in Scottsdale, very nice, does feel a LOT lighter than 585 lbs. I was a bit shocked by that weight.
The biggest hurdle; that price. It's not astronomical high, but $30K is well beyond the average persons "oh what the hell why not!" limit. You'd need to be well healed. Well focused - and being single would help too. Considering what I have in three bikes; in theory I could have afforded it, but damn, then I wouldn't have a dirt bike!
If this thing takes off (I want to say their target number is 300/year) then I bet they do a shaft bike down the road. Not that anything is wrong with a chain (or belt), but I think a big section of their target buyer would prefer a shaft.
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(http://mrcanoehead.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Seca-Turbo/i-NX4Xxfd/0/XL/Performance-Design-PRI-2012-Posters-Final_Page_1-XL.jpg)
Some links for the folks who think Motus designed and builds this engine. Performance Design and MAST Motorsports are the reason we have the MST engine... And the third link notes the intention to sell the engine separately...
http://performancedesign.com/tag/motus
http://www.mastmotorsports.com/
http://thekneeslider.com/is-the-motus-v4-baby-block-crate-engine-the-future-of-old-school-hot-rodding/
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That's good info!
But we've been talking about this bike for 5 years now ... it's been gettin' ready to get ready to go for a long time .....
Lannis
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That's good info!
But we've been talking about this bike for 5 years now ... it's been gettin' ready to get ready to go for a long time .....
Lannis
Excelsior-Henderson. Elio. Several past Indian resurrections.
Yep. MOTUS is right in there with the best of them.
:BEER:
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So as of today Febuary 2015, this bike can still not be purchased by Joe Big bucks, or anyone else?
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Excelsior-Henderson. Elio. Several past Indian resurrections.
Yep. MOTUS is right in there with the best of them.
:BEER:
I was seconds away from posting the same!! :D :D
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Excelsior-Henderson. Elio. Several past Indian resurrections.
Yep. MOTUS is right in there with the best of them.
:BEER:
Now I have to disagree a bit there.
1) MOTUS isn't trying to cash in on some 80-year-old "nostalgia" kick like Ariel or Henderson or Indian or any of those. The "half a Chevy V8" might be a little bit, but the connection is tenuous. It's a new bike, not trying to look like an old one.
2) The "Elio" is just a straight scam. They're never going to build any of those for $6500, and most people knew that from the start. It IS, however, conceivable that MOTUS might be able to build and sell their sport-tourer for $30,995. There's nothing inherently baloney-ous about that concept and practice.
I don't think that the MOTUS is completely unreasonable. I like it, the clean-looking engine, the relative lack of electronics compared to many modern bikes (I counted the switches on a friend's Gold Wing the other day and lost count at 56 ...) and it's possible that I'd buy one.
But it's been a LOOONGG time and they're not for sale yet. They've run them at Bonneville, tested them in magazines, and set up dealers. But no one is riding one yet ....
Lannis
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But it's been a LOOONGG time and they're not for sale yet. They've run them at Bonneville, tested them in magazines, and set up dealers. But no one is riding one yet ....
It was that way with E-H. They were a real-deal bike. They even sold a few before reality set in.
A rep brought one around to our Triumph/Ducati/Moto Guzzi dealership and I got to ride it. They were really wanting us to pony-up for a dealership.
Smoke and mirrors.
Until MOTUS gets bikes on the road, burning gas with paying customers, I'll still believe it's smoke and mirrors.
The bike should've been out years ago. With expected production of 200 units per year, they're exempt from most EPA/DOT requirements. They're a specialty builder.
I really wish they'd kept the thing quiet and under wraps until it was ready for sale. Of course, no egos could've been stroked with that plan...
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Ditto on the modern chain. A great lube is essential along with using it every other fill-up. Sadly, o ring types have the maintenance free misconception. Liquid Performance is my choice.
This bike should have been a shaft drive.
Turn the engine 90 deg like the Ducati Apollo and a chain makes sense.
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Remember Sidney Conn, the Guzzi hot air balloon and LSR guy? He's the dad of the president of Motus. Being a Guzzi Guy, I got to sit on one and start it up. It is surprisingly comfortable for an inseam challenged guy like me, and I loved the riding position. Sounds bitchin, too.
That said, I told them that I thought they were missing their demographic. The bike is targeted to testosterone riddled younger sport touring guys, and the only people that have enough money to buy it are older. <shrug> It's a cool concept, and I wish them well, though.
There has to have been someone with extremely deep pockets financing this operation.. a complete startup like this comes with staggering costs.
Hey, Chuck, I still have a bit of testosterone left and my wife just inherited a whole bunch of money.
I like that it weighs in under 600 lbs. I don't like that it isn't a shaftie.
I would never buy a first year of production model but maybe Jay Leno will buy two.
I wish them well, I am still waiting for an American bike that suits me.
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Hey, Chuck, I still have a bit of testosterone left and my wife just inherited a whole bunch of money.
I like that it weighs in under 600 lbs. I don't like that it isn't a shaftie.
I would never buy a first year of production model but maybe Jay Leno will buy two.
I wish them well, I am still waiting for an American bike that suits me.
Me, too. Buell was close with the S3T, but the vibration issues killed that one for me.
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Too long to bring to market; the market has moved on.
No ABS, no TC, no multi-map throttle, no adaptive suspension. After the initial euphoria, I predict sales will be slow. Most people will not spend twice as much for half the features.
This will make for an interesting case study in business schools as to how NOT to launch a new product.
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Too long to bring to market; the market has moved on.
No ABS, no TC, no multi-map throttle, no adaptive suspension. After the initial euphoria, I predict sales will be slow. Most people will not spend twice as much for half the features.
This will make for an interesting case study in business schools as to how NOT to launch a new product.
I agree with these points. ;-T
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I agree with these points. ;-T
Also mostly agree . However , MV Augusta manages to sell overpriced bikes that tend to lag a bit behind the Japanese , Ducati , and now the S1000 RR BMW in performance . Some buyers are willing to pay for ... let's call it exclusivity . Had a conversation with a surgeon and son a few years back . The surgeon was on an F4 MV , the son was on a CBR 1000 . Both admitted the Honda was a superior MC , but the MV was the bike that got all of the love .
Dusty
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Hell yeah, look at that thing.
(http://www.wallpaperup.com/uploads/wallpapers/2014/01/05/215414/3b521a10ffba4aaf5afc1d18a3b016be.jpg)
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Also mostly agree . However , MV Augusta manages to sell overpriced bikes that tend to lag a bit behind the Japanese , Ducati , and now the S1000 RR BMW in performance . Some buyers are willing to pay for ... let's call it exclusivity . Had a conversation with a surgeon and son a few years back . The surgeon was on an F4 MV , the son was on a CBR 1000 . Both admitted the Honda was a superior MC , but the MV was the bike that got all of the love .
Dusty
If the MST had an MV-Agusta badge on the tank, they'd sell like hotcakes.
Unfortunately, the d00ds who are pushing this dream came up with a st00pid name, "MOTUS", that looks funny, sounds funny, isn't fun to pronounce, and has no cache'. I'm not saying they should be using a historical name for the MST, but surely there is a better name for an American motorcycle than "MOTUS".
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If the MST had an MV-Agusta badge on the tank, they'd sell like hotcakes.
Unfortunately, the d00ds who are pushing this dream came up with a st00pid name, "MOTUS", that looks funny, sounds funny, isn't fun to pronounce, and has no cache'. I'm not saying they should be using a historical name for the MST, but surely there is a better name for an American motorcycle than "MOTUS".
I suggested ACME ;D
Dusty
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I suggested ACME ;D
Dusty
And the advertising tag line: "ACME for rich guys!" (A Cycle Made Exclusively for rich guys!) :BEER:
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I suggested ACME ;D
Dusty
Get the Honda and Subaru guys to help name it. Then you'd get Benly and Justy ... clear marketing winners!
Lannis
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MOTUS - Motorcycle Of The United States
kind of like
POTUS - President Of The United States
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Get the Honda and Subaru guys to help name it. Then you'd get Benly and Justy ... clear marketing winners!
Lannis
Yeah , or the geniuses at GM who tried to market a car in the Spanish speaking world called .... wait for it .....
The Nova ;D No Va . No bueno ::) :D
Dusty
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MOTUS - Motorcycle Of The United States
kind of like
POTUS - President Of The United States
ANFUFAMOCO ! Another F'ing Failed Motorcycle Company! :BEER:
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The MV Agusta comparison falls short because Motus has no royal pedigree, no track record of numerous victories, championships, and world championships, and no history of producing beautiful motorcycles that are universally coveted by collectors. Not to mention an F4 costs 1/3 less than an MST.
Motus is instead justifying its lofty price on superior tech and performance. That's a difficult sell when there are bikes costing half as much that can match the performance while delivering a higher level of tech.
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Craig , you are applying rational thought to the MC buying impulse , stop it ;D The F4 is considerably more expensive than other sportbikes that outperform it . Also , this MV Augusta is not the same company that won all of those GP titles , so it's still all smoke and mirrors .
Dusty
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Craig , you are applying rational thought to the MC buying impulse , stop it ;D The F4 is considerably more expensive than other sportbikes that outperform it . Also , this MV Augusta is not the same company that won all of those GP titles , so it's still all smoke and mirrors .
Dusty
Are you aware MV Augusta is once again road racing a bit in 600 class in WSBK? Also a few years ago they were competing in AMA Superbike.
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Are you aware MV Augusta is once again road racing a bit in 600 class in WSBK? Also a few years ago they were competing in AMA Superbike.
There have been modern MVs entered in racing for a few years now , some endurance stuff early 2000s , but they aren't winning , and it still isn't the same company , despite Phil Read's attempts to connect the two . Yeah , they are quite attractive , but an S1000 RR is the better bike .
Dusty
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but an S1000 RR is the better bike .
Blasphemy..
I'd look better on an MV. ;D
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Blasphemy..
I'd look better on an MV. ;D
In my case nothing much helps , but the beemer is still the better bike ;D
Dusty
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I dunno, I automatically think of MST 3000 when I hear this name.
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[T]his MV Augusta is not the same company that won all of those GP titles , so it's still all smoke and mirrors .
Cagiva resurrected MV Agusta in much the same way that John Bloor resurrected Triumph. While not direct descendants of their namesakes, each company benefits in the market from the halo of their predecessor companies. Motus has no such halo.
Putting that aside, the F4 has been deemed the world's most beautiful motorcycle by no less an authority than the curators of the Guggenheim Museum, and the Tamburini 1000 was named the "world's best sport bike" by Cycle World. The MTS is a handsome bike, but comparing it to a modern MV is not unlike comparing a Corvette to a Ferrari -- only in this case, the Corvette is the one that is much more expensive. If the Corvette cost 1/3 more than a Ferrari, how well do you think it would sell?
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Craig , the Tamburini retailed for over 60K bucks , and an S1000RR would still outperform one .
Dusty
Sent from a submarine in Oklahoma .
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Dusty
Sent from a submarine in Oklahoma .
[/quote]
I see your back on that damn submarine!!! Don't you know that you should never get in something that sinks on purpose!?
:-)
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Dusty
Sent from a submarine in Oklahoma .
I see your back on that damn submarine!!! Don't you know that you should never get in something that sinks on purpose!?
:-)
Yeah , and ours has the rare "screen door" option for keeping out mosquitoes ;D
Dusty
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Just got this from Motus:
http://motusmotorcycles.com/mst
lots of info about the bike, nothing about when one can actually buy one but they are talking about dealer demo rides. This makes me think they are actually producing bikes for sale.
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Just got this from Motus:
http://motusmotorcycles.com/mst
lots of info about the bike, nothing about when one can actually buy one but they are talking about dealer demo rides. This makes me think they are actually producing bikes for sale.
Nope. Demo bikes yes, but no bikes for sale until they solve this problem. From what I was told, lots of parts are sitting there but nothing is in production.
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MOTUS - Motorcycle Of The United States
kind of like
POTUS - President Of The United States
And I would be willing to bet a case of your most favorite beer, that if yo asked a 100 people in the USA what POTUS stands for, LESS than 10% could tell you correctly.
MOTUS as a brand name brings absolutely nothing to the table,..except for Moto Guzzi and Moto Morini riders! :D :D
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The email I just got showed their first class of tech training. It looks like quite a few well known dealers are getting ready to sell and service the bikes. If this is vaporware they are really pulling out all the stops to make it look real. $30K still stops me but I really like the concept of a V4 pushrod engine with a wet clutch that you can work on without pulling the engine. Hydraulic roller lifters so there is no valve adjustment needed. Yes, ABS would be nice and so would cruise control. I have never had the latter on a bike but maybe it would be handy when crossing Kansas. If I get the chance I will take a demo ride.
Peter Y.
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The email I just got showed their first class of tech training. It looks like quite a few well known dealers are getting ready to sell and service the bikes. If this is vaporware they are really pulling out all the stops to make it look real. $30K still stops me but I really like the concept of a V4 pushrod engine with a wet clutch that you can work on without pulling the engine. Hydraulic roller lifters so there is no valve adjustment needed. Yes, ABS would be nice and so would cruise control. I have never had the latter on a bike but maybe it would be handy when crossing Kansas. If I get the chance I will take a demo ride.
Peter Y.
Me too, all of that.
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So much hype, for a bike that if it does reach production will not exceed 300 units a year??!!
Really, less than 300 a year, why are we even talking about this. These numbers make Guzzi look like a Giant in the industry!
Wake me when a Motus can be bought off the floor for 18K, my guess is I'm in for one very long nap!
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...
The biggest hurdle; that price. It's not astronomical high, but $30K is well beyond the average persons "oh what the hell why not!" limit. You'd need to be well healed. Well focused - and being single would help too. ...
Whoa- $30k. I could have 2 brand spankin' new Agusta's for that. I'll take a Brutale and an F3.
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Also mostly agree . However , MV Augusta manages to sell overpriced bikes that tend to lag a bit behind the Japanese , Ducati , and now the S1000 RR BMW in performance .
The F4 is considerably more expensive than other sportbikes that outperform it .
The F4 won the Masterbike 2007 and came third in 2010, behind the BMW S1000RR and Aprilia RSV4 Factory and ahead of all the Japanese, and has continued to evolve since then (something changes in that bike every year).
The F4 is stably in the group of the top-notch supersport bikes. It may be that a year is slightly behind one of the others, but you have to be a very very very very very good pilot to judge the difference and say "that's better", otherwise, is just a matter of personal preference.
Moreover, on the Italian market, A base F4 costs less than a base RSV4 (and much less than a RSV4 Factory), less than a base Panigale, and only 240 Euros more than a S1000RR.
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The Motus may be an overpriced (in theory) vapor bike, but is a cool engine configuration no longer enough? Do we only want the latest doodads that really don't do much for actual riding? This is not my culture and heritage.
And as for MV-it may have the MV name attached to it, but it is no more authentic than if I were to wear a Patriots game jersey. It doesn't even share the basic concept, a race bike company funded for love by a rich guy.
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According to the Motus spec sheet, the bikes have ride-by-wire and cruise control. My understanding is that once you have ride-by-wire, it's just a matter of adding some software and switches to get multi-map throttle modes; add ABS and some software, and you can also have traction control. So the presence of ride-by-wire technology suggests that these refinements might be coming, but it also makes their current absence particularly baffling. With all of the development time that has been put into this bike, what are they waiting for?
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According to the Motus spec sheet, the bikes have ride-by-wire and cruise control. My understanding is that once you have ride-by-wire, it's just a matter of adding some software and switches to get multi-map throttle modes; add ABS and some software, and you can also have traction control. So the presence of ride-by-wire technology suggests that these refinements might be coming, but it also makes their current absence particularly baffling. With all of the development time that has been put into this bike, what are they waiting for?
Geeks are expensive
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According to the Motus spec sheet, the bikes have ride-by-wire and cruise control. My understanding is that once you have ride-by-wire, it's just a matter of adding some software and switches to get multi-map throttle modes; add ABS and some software, and you can also have traction control. So the presence of ride-by-wire technology suggests that these refinements might be coming, but it also makes their current absence particularly baffling. With all of the development time that has been put into this bike, what are they waiting for?
Geeks are expensive
At a listed $30K price all ready, where would the price tag have ended with all the other things and the geeks added?
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At a listed $30K price all ready, where would the price tag have ended with all the other things and the geeks added?
Not entirely sure but at 300 units/yr I'd think it could be significant?
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I like the bike but out of my price range! To bad hits all the right points for me. But if I hit the lottery…...
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Under perfect sales conditions, we have 50 states, so Motus could move 6 bikes a year to each state?! Good luck.
But surly the other 95% of humanity might want one, so perhaps spoiled Americans only have 250 to spread around, on no we are in for a bidding war!!! :D
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Folks that don't like to see them selves on the road (many members here feel that way; one reason they choose Moto Guzzi) will look very hard at this bike.
Exclusive because of production and price.
Everything else is "good enough".
I bet we could sell twelve in the Phoenix area alone. After all, Griso's are thicker 'n flies around here.
I think they have potential. Not that I could afford one.
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I friend of mine had the opportunity to test ride one at an event that was held at Battley Cycles in Gaithersburg, MD yesterday.
Does this mean they're going to be actually selling bikes soon?
(https://scontent-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/p180x540/11209651_1014849375194143_4049282497541579447_n.jpg?oh=cc1a9b6ae5fb5aef328a1190dd80ae9a&oe=55D3E60A)
Motor was impressive from 3 k rpm up. ohlins forks , WP rear...Lots of smart engineering .really not being a shaft is Maybe the only short comings as a sport tourer . Only a 9.9 mile guided test ride .So limited in getting a full feeling for it . No slab riding to get that feel either as far wind buffeting ....Prices start at $30,000. Does not open Missy's check book either. Still appreciated the opportunity for a test ride.
The only thing that I did not like was the Ducati type turning radius .steering stops could of had a few more degrees more turning . I see that being a parking lot problem .
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Jay , I have to think that at $30K , and with performance probably not equal to an FJR , the MOTUS may be irrelevant before they hit the market . That could be why it has taken so many years to get even this far along . Time will tell .
Dusty
I certainly agree. As others have stated, this is only going to sell to those who want something really unique; not to see themselves on the road.
It'll be the MV Agusta of touring bikes.
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Jay , I have to think that at $30K , and with performance probably not equal to an FJR , the MOTUS may be irrelevant before they hit the market . That could be why it has taken so many years to get even this far along . Time will tell .
Dusty
:+1
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Or, you could look at it as diversification.
The engine was developed with installation in mini race cars in mind , so the motorcycle is only part of the plan.
motus vintage f1 mini race car
(http://g4.img-dpreview.com/F0678B71092E4136B3DA6AD5EF2CC790.jpg)
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For 30 grand a bike needs more than a different engine, there are already plenty of excellent engines for the sport touring genre. The in-line four in the FJR, the V4 of the Honda ST and then of course the boxer and V twins. Sure, the engine in the Motus is more powerful but how often would anyone take advantage of the additional power over a FJR or ST1300?
Anyone who has ridden an FJR or ST1300 isn't complaining about vibration or lack of power, fuel economy or reliability either.
You can only plug so many accessories into the system and with lights and many accessories having lower power requirements, a different alternator is ok but not the thrill of the day. I don't see all that many Sport Tourers lacking in accessory power these days and as far as reliability goes, for 30 grand there has to be a lot more than that.
The bike itself looks great and has a different style to it but 30 grand still goes a long way to putting style on anything.
The fairing looks too much like it came off an old Kawasaki Concours and the tank is UJM style. There is the exposed frame which is like like everyone else so it is all about then engine.
The Norge doesn't have the same power but after you've wicked open the throttle a few times, it's time to lay down miles and if that 30 grand isn't doing that better than everyone else, then you'd have to be happy with the engine as the primary focus of everything and a Sport Tourer is about the whole machine as a unit, one one individual component.
In the 16-20k range, it would make an interesting bike to have, at 30k, not so much other than bragging rights.
Chances are, when it comes to exclusivity, there might be more Motuls seen than Norges. I have yet to see another Norge on the road.
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To put the 30k into perspective, a Screaming Eagle from HD can easily top that price. They do sell a few of them too! For me I am keeping my Norge, not that I have Motus money or Screaming Eagle dollars either.
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People pay for the screaming eagle because it's a Harley. And Harley can get away with it because they're big.
The problem is that Motus doesn't have another product with mass appeal, so if you fork over the ridiculous asking price, you're buying into a company that is probably going to go belly up within 2 years - since no one will buy one once it actually goes on sale - and be left without parts support for what is effectively a one-off engine. Kind of a Delorean moment going on here.
Still, if you buy one it might be worth twice as much in 30 years.
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I already ride 8 rigs that are all rare in the U.S. and none of them even cost $8,000 ea. ;D
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The styling is nice, but looks a few years old, and it is nice rather than beautiful-and I think it will have to be beautiful before it will sell at that price.
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I got to test ride one today and it is a fantastic bike, it handled really well,build quality is top notch, had tons of torque and the sound was amazing.
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/blackkat-1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_0673_zpsqjxt8ntg.jpg)
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/blackkat-1/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_0674_zpsvlakplko.jpg)
And I believe that the dealer was in the process of selling one when I left the store.
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And I believe that the dealer was in the process of selling one when I left the store.
What was the dealer floor price?
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What was the dealer floor price?
I think the base price bike as pictured above with bags is $31K.
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I was there too and took a spirited ride on the R model.
For me, the Motus out-Guzzis the Guzzi!
The four-cylinder sounds and feels like a big V Twin instead of a four. It's like riding an 8V Guzzi on steroids. Lots of torque and amazing horsepower. Handling and braking are fantastic.
I like the basic, almost unrefined feel of the bike. There is no extra electronic BS to the bike. None of the BMW sissy stuff like automatic stop-light brakes or electronic shifting. The Motus is like a genuine Shelby AC Cobra up against the gadget-laden Mercedes Benz luxury sport touring bikes. The Motus is a throw back to what some people call REAL motorcycles.
It is nothing at all like an FJR, ST1300, or new BMW, all very sterile bikes to me (no offense to those who like them).
Motus President, 30-something (?) Lee Conn, guided the test rides and spoke passionately about the machines.
Bikes are now being shipped for sale. They start at $31,000+ and top out at about $36,000 for the carbon-wheeled R model. Fit and finish is excellent and componentry is made up of top-drawer items. Great attention has been spent on sourcing parts from high-quality sources in the US, Europe and elsewhere. Lee couldn't name a single Chinese item on the bike except for maybe some wiring items.
I expect the California cycle magazines will tear it apart with criticism for all the creature comforts it lacks. But, one thing the Motus has in spades that is increasingly being refined out of motorcycles is character. Guzzi has character but the Motus carries it several rungs higher up the ladder. If you get the chance, ride one.
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Ohh ohh..<rummaging among the couch cushions> I'd look good on that. ;D
I'm glad to hear you guys testify. Did you know there is a Guzzi connection? Sydney Conn, Lee's dad, had the Guzzi balloon at Bonneville when we (collectively) took the land speed record with a LeMans.. ;-T
Still have the T shirt. ;)
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Yes, talked to Lee about his dad. Lee said he is still riding his California which has Carrillo rods,etc.etc. ;D
And we talked about his dad's land speed bike, a Guzzi engine that sounds like no other Guzzi I have ever heard and Sidney still has the bike.
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I was there too and took a spirited ride on the R model.
For me, the Motus out-Guzzis the Guzzi!
The four-cylinder sounds and feels like a big V Twin instead of a four. It's like riding an 8V Guzzi on steroids. Lots of torque and amazing horsepower. Handling and braking are fantastic.
I like the basic, almost unrefined feel of the bike. There is no extra electronic BS to the bike. None of the BMW sissy stuff like automatic stop-light brakes or electronic shifting. The Motus is like a genuine Shelby AC Cobra up against the gadget-laden Mercedes Benz luxury sport touring bikes. The Motus is a throw back to what some people call REAL motorcycles.
It is nothing at all like an FJR, ST1300, or new BMW, all very sterile bikes to me (no offense to those who like them).
Motus President, 30-something (?) Lee Conn, guided the test rides and spoke passionately about the machines.
Bikes are now being shipped for sale. They start at $31,000+ and top out at about $36,000 for the carbon-wheeled R model. Fit and finish is excellent and componentry is made up of top-drawer items. Great attention has been spent on sourcing parts from high-quality sources in the US, Europe and elsewhere. Lee couldn't name a single Chinese item on the bike except for maybe some wiring items.
I expect the California cycle magazines will tear it apart with criticism for all the creature comforts it lacks. But, one thing the Motus has in spades that is increasingly being refined out of motorcycles is character. Guzzi has character but the Motus carries it several rungs higher up the ladder. If you get the chance, ride one.
Wow twice the character of a Guzzi, and it's only twice the price!!! :D :D
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Those things look sick. I'm pretty sure I need one. The dyno video just make me laugh with pleasure. I have no business going test drive one of them. I better go test drive one. :)
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Any WALKING DEAD fans in here?
Norman Reedus is touring WNC and ETN on a Motus,
From his Instagram last couple days....
https://instagram.com/p/6awXkyMcDb/
https://instagram.com/p/6a1ouBMcOh/
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Any WALKING DEAD fans in here?
Norman Reedus is touring WNC and ETN on a Motus,
From his Instagram last couple days....
https://instagram.com/p/6awXkyMcDb/
https://instagram.com/p/6a1ouBMcOh/
Tried the link twice with two different browsers and it crashed both of them, so I'll have to depend on second-hand information.
Does Norman have any qualifications for letting us know about a new motorcycle other than playing a zombie on film? :grin:
Lannis
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Tried the link twice with two different browsers and it crashed both of them, so I'll have to depend on second-hand information.
Does Norman have any qualifications for letting us know about a new motorcycle other than playing a zombie on film? :grin:
Lannis
hmmmm
maybe like this?
https://instagram.com/p/6awXkyMcDb/
https://instagram.com/p/6a1ouBMcOh/
I don't think Norman is any special authority above and beyond he's a rich enthusiast who can and does ride many many many different bikes of all makes & styles??
I guess he's at least as knowledgeable as Ewan? :boozing:
Oh yeah, Norman doesn't play a zombie on film, he plays a Triumph chopper-ridin' squirrel-eatin redneck zombie killer :bike-037:
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I guess he's at least as knowledgeable as Ewan? :boozing:
THAT'S no comfort ... ! :grin:
Lannis
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the pre pro models from a couple years ago were much better looking. imo. with the canadian dollar so shitty there wont be any sales up here.
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You guys really need to take a ride on one of these if you get the chance. They are outstanding bikes. Leafman60 is right on with his impressions of it. I've ridden a lot of bikes since I got my license in '61 but I've never been on another one as good as the Motus. That includes the '08 Norge that I loved until I got old enough that it caused enough neck and shoulder pain that I wasn't willing to put up with it any more on 500 mile days. Everything on the Motus is top shelf. Unlike any of the other bikes you can buy, that all benefit from changes in suspension, seats, handlebars/risers, exhaust, etc., there is nothing on the Motus that needs to be changed. If you replace/modify anything on it, you're probably going backwards.
Then think about the engine. The Chevy LS7 is still winning world class endurance races. Well, the Motus "Baby Block" KMV4 was designed by Katech, the same engineering firm responsible for the LS7. That same technology is what you get in this engine. And yes, it has the same character/feel that I love about the Guzzi engine, but "enlarged". It reminds you of an American muscle car. All of it's prodigious horsepower and torque are perfectly controlled. It will never scare you or get you in trouble unless you ask it to. It's very sedate and manageable in any situation, but with 165hp and 123lb/ft of torque available whenever you want to use it. And how much maintenance does a modern Chevy small block require? The Motus is the same. Change the oil and filter, keep the air filter clean and ride. Plus, it's diagnostic package will generally tell you which part to obtain from your neighborhood NAPA to fix it if you should ever have a problem.
Yes, it's an expensive bike, but you can spend that kind of money on a Harley or BMW as well. And you don't have to spend any extra dollars on the Motus to get it to where you want it to be. Yes, they left off all the electronic wizardry and that's a plus as far as I'm concerned. I like cruise control, which it has, and wouldn't mind ABS, which it doesn't have, but you can keep all the rest of the nanny stuff.
I didn't go to the demo event because I was in the market for a new bike. I already had a '13 Super Tenere that was a perfectly good road machine. I've been interested in Motus since they were first announced and I'd seen them a few years ago when Lee Conn and Brian Case (Motus founders) came through here on the prototypes. I just wanted a chance to ride one and see what they had come up with. After I rode it, I knew I wanted one and that I felt it was worth the price. When you look at the whole package, I don't think you can build a bike of this quality for much less. It just took me a week to decide I was actually willing to pay that much for any motorcycle. My new blue MST is supposed to be here by the middle of September.
Ride one and I'll bet it will blow you away, even if you don't agree that it's worth the price tag.
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Good for you on this and it's good to hear from someone who has actually ridden one! I would love to hear more after you get one home.
Best!
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Unlike any of the other bikes you can buy, that all benefit from changes in suspension, seats, handlebars/risers, exhaust, etc., there is nothing on the Motus that needs to be changed.
Good enthusiastic review, and if a Motus ever comes within a day's riding range, I'll get a test ride on it and see what it does.
One thing, though ... even if everything is "top drawer", even the genii at Motus don't know what's comfortable to me and Fay when it comes to seats. Seating, regardless of the quality of materials, is WAY too personal a thing to think that "one size, shape, material, and hardness" fits everyone.
No matter what bike I get, I budget another $700 for a seat - not "just because" I have to be different, but because the chances are so slim that a "universal" seat is optimal for us ....
Lannis
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This is the reason I don't test ride a new vehicle unless I'm really serious about maybe buying 1. For once you ride/drive the thing you might find yourself get an irresistible desire to own the thing, whether you really need it or not. :shocked:
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This is the reason I don't test ride a new vehicle unless I'm really serious about maybe buying 1. For once you ride/drive the thing you might find yourself get an irresistible desire to own the thing, whether you really need it or not. :shocked:
That's true. If I found it to be "irresistible" it sure would be a lot of trouble. I'd have sell all my other bikes to get up the money to pay for one Motus.
Not saying it wouldn't be worth it, and it might really be a good thing to do. But it would be a lot of trouble!
Lannis
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THAT'S no comfort ... ! :grin:
Lannis
That feller can bolt a pair of free Touratech bars on a BMW like nobody's business!
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Good enthusiastic review, and if a Motus ever comes within a day's riding range, I'll get a test ride on it and see what it does.
One thing, though ... even if everything is "top drawer", even the genii at Motus don't know what's comfortable to me and Fay when it comes to seats. Seating, regardless of the quality of materials, is WAY too personal a thing to think that "one size, shape, material, and hardness" fits everyone.
No matter what bike I get, I budget another $700 for a seat - not "just because" I have to be different, but because the chances are so slim that a "universal" seat is optimal for us ....
Lannis
The seat is a premium Sargent (lower and/or heated are options) and true, you may not like it, but there are darned few bikes in the world that come from the factory with better. The handlebars are fully adjustable (up and down, front to back, and pullback angle) made by Helibars. The windscreen is also adjustable and their screen/fairing combination provided the quietest ride I've ever experienced. Suspension is adjustable, as are the levers. So yes, no manufacturer knows what's comfortable for you, but there's a much better than average chance that the Motus, as delivered, can be tweaked to work for anyone that tries it. But there are always exceptions and that's why I said "if you replace/modify anything on it you are probably going backwards".
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The seat is a premium Sargent (lower and/or heated are options) and true, you may not like it, but there are darned few bikes in the world that come from the factory with better. The handlebars are fully adjustable (up and down, front to back, and pullback angle) made by Helibars. The windscreen is also adjustable and their screen/fairing combination provided the quietest ride I've ever experienced. Suspension is adjustable, as are the levers. So yes, no manufacturer knows what's comfortable for you, but there's a much better than average chance that the Motus, as delivered, can be tweaked to work for anyone that tries it. But there are always exceptions and that's why I said "if you replace/modify anything on it you are probably going backwards".
Agreed. Sounds like they've covered everything that CAN be covered ....
Although any big roadburner I get has GOT to be two-up capable. The Sargent seat on this bike looks like it has a big deep lovely wide seat for the driver, and (as usual) a little itty bitty pillion pad for the passenger. That, and the seat-to-passenger-peg distance, would make it or break it with Fay. The passenger pegs could be moved down a bit with a couple of fabricated adapters, I'm sure, and Russell will probably make a reasonable passenger seat.
Also I don't see a GVWR on any of the specs. If it's not 440 pounds payload or higher, it's a non-starter for us. The Stelvio meets all these requirements for us, and it's a pretty high hurdle (so to speak) for a bike to meet ....
Lannis
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Yes, talked to Lee about his dad. Lee said he is still riding his California which has Carrillo rods,etc.etc. ;D
And we talked about his dad's land speed bike, a Guzzi engine that sounds like no other Guzzi I have ever heard and Sidney still has the bike.
Slight thread highjack - Back in March of 2010 Sid was a guest at one of our vintage bike club meetings, he told a good story recounting the LSR on that Lemans.
Unfortunately for us he didn't bring the Lemans to the meeting!
We were standing outside around a fire pit, this one is a bit hazy because of the smoke from the fire.
(https://zookster.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/AVMA/AVMA-Meetings/i-F4DfXsB/0/L/DSCN1347-L.jpg)
(https://zookster.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/AVMA/AVMA-Meetings/i-w2gkN7K/0/L/DSCN1343-L.jpg)
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Any WALKING DEAD fans in here?
Norman Reedus is touring WNC and ETN on a Motus,
From his Instagram last couple days....
https://instagram.com/p/6awXkyMcDb/
https://instagram.com/p/6a1ouBMcOh/
That's great! I thought Motus was Dead, what a cool tie in! He's great on the show by the way.
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Agreed. Sounds like they've covered everything that CAN be covered ....
Although any big roadburner I get has GOT to be two-up capable. The Sargent seat on this bike looks like it has a big deep lovely wide seat for the driver, and (as usual) a little itty bitty pillion pad for the passenger. That, and the seat-to-passenger-peg distance, would make it or break it with Fay. The passenger pegs could be moved down a bit with a couple of fabricated adapters, I'm sure, and Russell will probably make a reasonable passenger seat.
Also I don't see a GVWR on any of the specs. If it's not 440 pounds payload or higher, it's a non-starter for us. The Stelvio meets all these requirements for us, and it's a pretty high hurdle (so to speak) for a bike to meet ....
Lannis
For once, Lannis and I agree. The manufactures do not give nearly enough attention to passenger accomodations. 2-up traveling is not common enough to make it worth the effort, I guess. This brings us back around to a custom seat.
I had better not bring home a bike that isn't passenger capable. A backrest of some sort is required. I don't like topboxes very much, and wouldn't have one just for the backrest.
Bill Lovelady IS
Eskimo Spy
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For once, Lannis and I agree. The manufactures do not give nearly enough attention to passenger accomodations. 2-up traveling is not common enough to make it worth the effort, I guess. This brings us back around to a custom seat.
I had better not bring home a bike that isn't passenger capable. A backrest of some sort is required. I don't like topboxes very much, and wouldn't have one just for the backrest.
Bill Lovelady IS
Eskimo Spy
Bill -
Sometimes it's weird like that. I agree with probably 95% of what YOU say, but you don't agree with much of what I say.
There's a message in there somewhere but I'm not worrying about it. I wonder if Russell has built a seat for a Motus yet ... ?
Lannis
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Every butt-back combo is different. What works for yours may not work for others. :bow:
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Bill -
Sometimes it's weird like that. I agree with probably 95% of what YOU say, but you don't agree with much of what I say.
There's a message in there somewhere but I'm not worrying about it. I wonder if Russell has built a seat for a Motus yet ... ?
Lannis
You can probably send them a stock one to build a custom for you. Sargent does that.
I'd be cool if you could by just a seat pan from Motus to do that with.
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You can probably send them a stock one to build a custom for you. Sargent does that.
I'd be cool if you could by just a seat pan from Motus to do that with.
Having a custom seat made out of your own seat pan is "convenient" until you maybe want to sell the bike, then you wish you hadn't.
When I had Rich Maund make me a seat for my Centauro, I bought two Centauro seats from Mark @ MGC and used one of them for the pan. When I had Russell make my Stelvio seat, I had to use my original pan because it was hard to find Stelvio pans at the time.
It would be great if Motus (or any other maker) would provide seat pans for custom seats. I'd almost rather buy a bike without a seat, since i know I'm going to have one made anyhow ....
Lannis
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It'll be the MV Agusta of touring bikes.
Actually, the Tourismo Veloce is the MV Agusta of touring bikes:
(http://www.revzilla.com/blog_content_image/image/11752/2104-mv-agusta-turismo-veloce-lusso-800-02.jpg)
At $16,000 base, $18,000 with active suspension (add $1,300 for saddlebags), it looks like a bargain compared to the Motus.
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The more I see pictures of the Motus the more it looks exactly what they are claiming, a car engine in a motorcycle. I can't get past that it looks like something someone slapped together in a garage no matter how high quality individual components are.
I had Saab Sonnetts a few times, the Motus engine looks pretty much the same, that is to say it looks on a fork lift than a motorcycle, appearance wise. Put any Guzzi next to the Motus and which engine would you rather look at?
http://www.at-speed.com/old_version_July_2010/turn-in/soneat/galleries/07-10-07/IMG_4603.jpg
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Am I following you guys right, about the pegs on a Scout being on the swing arm? If that is so, I'm really surprised that the NHTSA would let that by. From their perspective, I would think that would be a really safety concern?
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Hmm, thhis is the Motus thread, right?
Yes, passenger pegs on the Scout are on the swingarm. Up near the pivot. It was common not so long ago on smaller bikes to do that. Really shouldn't be a safety issue, but I can't see too many people using the Scout for two up for much more than a quick spin.
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So , has anyone actually purchased one of these things , the Motus that is .
About the footpeg thing , if they are mounted at the front of the swinging arm , and the overall suspension travel is what , 2.5 inches , the pegs ain'tagonna move much :laugh:
Dusty
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I have a 6-year plan to aquire a Motus. of course, contingencies apply.
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I have a 6-year plan to aquire a Motus. of course, contingencies apply.
Mine's like a 3 year plan, haven't test-ridden one yet - that may cure me or doom me. Have to sell about 4 bikes to get one, though .....
Don't even know why I want one ....
Lannis
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Am I following you guys right, about the pegs on a Scout being on the swing arm? If that is so, I'm really surprised that the NHTSA would let that by. From their perspective, I would think that would be a really safety concern?
One word: Sportster.
Until fairly recently, Sportster passenger pegs were screwed into bosses which were welded to the swingarm. I'm sure the K Model was the same. So, for nearly 60-years K and XL model Harleys all had swingarm mounted passenger pegs.
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w91/greenbacking/Harley.jpg)
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One word: Sportster.
Until fairly recently, Sportster passenger pegs were screwed into bosses which were welded to the swingarm. I'm sure the K Model was the same. So, for nearly 60-years K and XL model Harleys all had swingarm mounted passenger pegs.
Heck , there was a Royal Enfield special (Yeah I know , all of the late English REs were kinda "special") commonly known as the Tangerine Dream that had passenger pegs mounted to the mufflers :huh: :laugh:
Dusty
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Heck , there was a Royal Enfield special (Yeah I know , all of the late English REs were kinda "special") commonly known as the Tangerine Dream that had passenger pegs mounted to the mufflers :huh: :laugh:
Dusty
I've also seen Rickman kits for Triumph and BSA that had passenger pegs welded to the mufflers ..... More than one, so I don't think it was an "owner" mod .....
Lannis
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I've also seen Rickman kits for Triumph and BSA that had passenger pegs welded to the mufflers ..... More than one, so I don't think it was an "owner" mod .....
Lannis
Yeah , the Tangerine Dreams were Rickman specials . The story was that there were some odd number of 750 Interceptor motors (maybe 50?) sitting in crates bound for export . The original buyer reneged , and some small cottage concern bought the engines and built Rickman specials . I've only seen one in real life , so ugly they were attractive :laugh: Geez , why can I remember completely useless stuff like this , but not where my sanity is residing :huh:
Dusty
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There was a Motus in attendance at the Ephrata First Sunday motorcycle breakfast yesterday.
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11947660_1083407008338379_7571236323205867901_n.jpg?oh=7d990d2f73490437b7940625a85e1bf0&oe=565FB188)
I wasn't able to go, pic is from a friend's Facebook page.
I don't know if he was able to talk to the owner or not.
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There was a Motus in attendance at the Ephrata First Sunday motorcycle breakfast yesterday.
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11947660_1083407008338379_7571236323205867901_n.jpg?oh=7d990d2f73490437b7940625a85e1bf0&oe=565FB188)
I wasn't able to go, pic is from a friend's Facebook page.
I don't know if he was able to talk to the owner or not.
That's good news. First picture I've ever seen of one that looked like it belonged to a regular guy rather than to a dealer or magazine or as a test bike ... Maybe this one really is happening ....
Lannis
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Motus MCs................ ..above my pay grade. :bow:
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Oh crap, I'm getting ideas..... :boozing:
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Motus MCs................ ..above my pay grade. :bow:
Mine too. UNLESS I sold three or four of what I've got ......
Lannis
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(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11947660_1083407008338379_7571236323205867901_n.jpg?oh=7d990d2f73490437b7940625a85e1bf0&oe=565FB188)
I just noticed that it is the MST-R as in the even more expensive one!
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I just noticed that it is the MST-R as in the even more expensive one!
Best of all, it would actually look good with a Russell Day-Long seat!
Lannis
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Wow , 542 posts about a motorbike that doesn't really exist in the real world :huh:
Dusty
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Wow , 542 posts about a motorbike that doesn't really exist in the real world :huh:
Dusty
I suppose it's possible that the recent picture of the Motus at the bike gathering is a photo-shopped hoax. Don't know why you'd assume that, though?
Lannis
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Wow , 542 posts about a motorbike that doesn't really exist in the real world :huh:
Dusty
Demo rides at our local dealer and both Leafman and myself test rode one. Great bikes, I'd buy one in a minute if the price was a bit more reasonable. Test rode this one:
(http://rs147.pbsrc.com/albums/r317/blackkat-1/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-05/33F698A2-76CA-46D0-B02F-FA4E3815BD0A_zpscwlvnd2x.jpg?w=480&h=480&fit=clip)
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I suppose it's possible that the recent picture of the Motus at the bike gathering is a photo-shopped hoax. Don't know why you'd assume that, though?
Lannis
Yeah , and there were a few of those Excelsior Henderson Hanlon brothers things that showed up at MC gatherings also .
Demo rides at our local dealer and both Leafman and myself test rode one. Great bikes, I'd buy one in a minute if the price was a bit more reasonable. Test rode this one:
(http://rs147.pbsrc.com/albums/r317/blackkat-1/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-05/33F698A2-76CA-46D0-B02F-FA4E3815BD0A_zpscwlvnd2x.jpg?w=480&h=480&fit=clip)
Uh , how long have we been doing this dance ? :laugh:
Get back to me when these things are available at a dealership for a price that any sane person would pay :rolleyes:
Really , I hope MOTUS makes it , would be cool to see a more or less American made sport touring bike , but it seems these guys have misread the market and are trying to reinvent the wheel .
Dusty
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Yeah , and there were a few of those Excelsior Henderson Hanlon brothers things that showed up at MC gatherings also .
Uh , how long have we been doing this dance ? :laugh:
Get back to me when these things are available at a dealership for a price that any sane person would pay :rolleyes:
Really , I hope MOTUS makes it , would be cool to see a more or less American made sport touring bike , but it seems these guys have misread the market and are trying to reinvent the wheel .
Dusty
The Excelsior Henderson comparison is fair enough. Time will tell, so at some point there won't be a debate. There might be 100 of them sold and then the whole thing dies and 100 guys are left with orphan collector items ... or maybe not.
You can't waffle out by saying that "a sane person won't pay the price", though. Nominally sane people pay $30 grand every day for top-of-the-line, fully-equipped BMW and Harleys. For that matter, people who are not gibbering idiots pay $60K for giant pickup trucks in which to commute to work. YOU might not, but that just means it's not your thing, not that it's nobody's thing and therefore "doesn't exist" ....
Lannis
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The Excelsior Henderson comparison is fair enough. Time will tell, so at some point there won't be a debate. There might be 100 of them sold and then the whole thing dies and 100 guys are left with orphan collector items ... or maybe not.
You can't waffle out by saying that "a sane person won't pay the price", though. Nominally sane people pay $30 grand every day for top-of-the-line, fully-equipped BMW and Harleys. For that matter, people who are not gibbering idiots pay $60K for giant pickup trucks in which to commute to work. YOU might not, but that just means it's not your thing, not that it's nobody's thing ....
Lannis
Just kidding about the "sane" thing , like being a bit crazy isn't a prerequisite around here :laugh: Still , there is no real world evidence that MOTUS is ever going to be a viable MC manufacturer . Haven't we been reading about this for more than 5 years ?
Dusty
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I have recently read in a newspaper that the average price out the door for an F-150 Ford pickup is about $45 grand. (maybe it was a 250??)
If the average guy can find financing for that with maybe 60 months term then an average rider could probably swing a Motus no?
Its really the only modern sport touring two wheeler I have seen that interests me..not that I would buy one but I hope its a success.
mike
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I have recently read in a newspaper that the average price out the door for an F-150 Ford pickup is about $45 grand. (maybe it was a 250??)
If the average guy can find financing for that with maybe 60 months term then an average rider could probably swing a Motus no?
Its really the only modern sport touring two wheeler I have seen that interests me..not that I would buy one but I hope its a success.
mike
"Not that I would buy one" . There in lies the problem , even folks who can pay cash aren't interested . The sport touring market isn't all that large , and BMW , Triumph , Honda , Yamaha , even little old Moto Guzzi build incredible bikes in the $15K - $28K range that compete in this category .
Dusty
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You forgot KTM. :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu
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At the prices mentioned, there is no business model that makes Motus a viable company for any length of time, not with a one model line or even with diveratives.
There might be a good market retrofitting the engines into a Toyota Priius.
My guess is that they are shopping to see if they can be a Munch type maker and turn out a few every once in a while. There are lots of engines out there at least equal to what this brings to the table, they are being made by the tens of thousands.
They stick half a Chevy engine into a bike and didn't stop to think about anyone who drives Ford's? Might as well try to sell a Harley to a Gold Wing rider and have better luck.
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They stick half a Chevy engine into a bike and didn't stop to think about anyone who drives Ford's? Might as well try to sell a Harley to a Gold Wing rider and have better luck.
Do people still pay attention to the "Ford vs Chevy" thing? It used to be a huge deal when race cars were really derived from showroom cars, and people proudly wore their Dodge/Ford/Plymouth/Chevy colors and followed their stars and bought the cars.
Nowadays, the race cars are just generic, standardized race cars, no relation to anything you can buy, and the cars on the road all look and act the same.
Hard to believe there's still anyone left, even in deepest NASCAR country, that would turn their nose up at a Motus because the engine was "derived" from an old Chevy design, and not a Mopar? But maybe there is.
Lucky for us, we won't have to do the "He said, She said, Is Not, Is Too" thing for too long. Time will tell.
Lannis
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Get back to me when these things are available at a dealership for a price that any sane person would pay :rolleyes:
Dusty
Two people were going to buy the bike a few days after the demo rides. Unfortunately the dealer wasn't quite forthcoming on some information, left a bad taste in the buyers mouths and they walked away from the sales.
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Similar fugly front fairings. Who wore it better? Motus or...
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc57/bpreynolds/image.jpg1_zpsgnkikljh.jpg) (http://s212.photobucket.com/user/bpreynolds/media/image.jpg1_zpsgnkikljh.jpg.html)
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Motus interview.
http://rideapart.com/articles/interview-lee-conn-president-co-founder-motus
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Two people were going to buy the bike a few days after the demo rides. Unfortunately the dealer wasn't quite forthcoming on some information, left a bad taste in the buyers mouths and they walked away from the sales.
What info , price , warranty , delivery time ? Like I said , not really available .
Dusty
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What info , price , warranty , delivery time ? Like I said , not really available .
Dusty
Is too. Is not! Is too. Is not! Is too. Is not! Is too. Is not! Is too. Is not! Is too. Is not! Is too. Is not!
Wait, which one was I?
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Is too. Is not! Is too. Is not! Is too. Is not! Is too. Is not! Is too. Is not! Is too. Is not! Is too. Is not!
Wait, which one was I?
Now I'm confused :laugh:
Dusty
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Who designed the rear end on that red Motus above??? Yikes!
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Similar fugly front fairings. Who wore it better? Motus or...
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc57/bpreynolds/image.jpg1_zpsgnkikljh.jpg) (http://s212.photobucket.com/user/bpreynolds/media/image.jpg1_zpsgnkikljh.jpg.html)
Motus Interruptus.
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Now I'm confused :laugh:
Dusty
Finally; he admits it. :azn:
Ralph
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Motus is as viable as Confederate...where one of the founders came from. Motus has a very good design ideal- parts people want (seat, suspenders, brakes, adjustable bars, etc) at a premium price. They are currently filling orders of pre-sale bikes. None on the showroom floors as they are all sold out for awhile.
Some are going to have to come to terms with not being in the Motus demographic. People have a hard time with this for some reason. It's not for everyone and that is part of the point.
I love the Henderson comparison that keeps coming up. EH was venture capitalists all the way who burnt through a pile of investor money before they could get any sales volume. Motus hasn't asked for a single investor dollar. They are not building a 10k bikes per year plant. They are not rushing a non-tested product to market with the big boys as the target. They are not at all like the Hanlons. They sell specialized sport touring rigs in a market they feel is lacking any kind of representation. EH is like Motus only because the product has two wheels.
You can also send Lee (founder) a question directly, and he answers. Usually the same day.
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Always thought everyone already knew :laugh:
Dusty
We did. Geez. Now can we please get back on the topic of discussing this very expensive, very ugly motorcycle?
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We did. Geez. Now can we please get back on the topic of discussing this very expensive, very ugly motorcycle?
Me personal, I like the looks of it; and it's the style of motorcycle that I imagine myself riding on.
Very expensive? No doubt, but people have spent a lot more on motorcycles that I don't even give a second glance as they go down the road or as I walk by them in a parking lot .....
Lannis
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Looks nice, to me. I saw a blue one in Cripple Creek Colorado, back in June. Looked good going down the road.
With the kind of power these things make, I think I'd want ABS/TC.
These bikes fill the void left by the Ducati ST4S. Same type of well-heeled customer.
I'm anxious to see how they do on the LD circuit.
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/11954546_10153299742063141_7939790777473070559_n.jpg?oh=ba65cc04c037cffd52ec99d3c851c404&oe=567765B1)
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KIRB , the EH comparison isn't about business practice , more the reality of bringing a new motorcycle company to maturity . Bloor spent 100,000,000 English pounds of his own money to revive the Triumph name , don't think MOTUS has that kind of money . I do wish them well , but the sport touring market isn't really underrepresented , there just hasn't been a huge demand for those types of bikes .
How is that Bipper ?
Dusty
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KIRB , the EH comparison isn't about business practice , more the reality of bringing a new motorcycle company to maturity . Bloor spent 100,000,000 English pounds of his own money to revive the Triumph name , don't think MOTUS has that kind of money . I do wish them well , but the sport touring market isn't really underrepresented , there just hasn't been a huge demand for those types of bikes .
How is that Bipper ?
Dusty
Measured, thoughtful, relevant. Dusty for mayor, I say.
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Measured, thoughtful, relevant. Dusty for mayor, I say.
Oh , nobody wants that , not even me .
Dusty
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the sport touring market isn't really underrepresented , there just hasn't been a huge demand for those types of bikes .
Yeah. The sport-touring segment is being diminished by the road-oriented ADVbike category.
More upright ergos for the old farts who still like to sport-tour.
BMW's new R1000XR being the latest shot across the bow of "traditional" sport-touring motorcycles.
Even Ducati killed the ST line in favor of the more road-going version of the Multistrada with Testastretta engine.
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KIRB , the EH comparison isn't about business practice , more the reality of bringing a new motorcycle company to maturity . Bloor spent 100,000,000 English pounds of his own money to revive the Triumph name , don't think MOTUS has that kind of money . I do wish them well , but the sport touring market isn't really underrepresented , there just hasn't been a huge demand for those types of bikes .
Motus hit at the right time- engineering firms were in a slump and used Motus to keep the engineers fed. They selected to have EVERYTHING outsourced but assembly. This saved a ton in required capital for a plant. Getting all of this to mesh does take time and caused delays. They have 50 state legal bikes and are getting them to happy customers.
The sport touring segment doesn't have a bunch of demand...for the big guys. Motus only needs 200-300 per year (their numbers) to meet the sales goals. Motus was online marketing like crazy prior to bikes going out. Now they are focused on specific events and making bikes. I'd call them a success so far.
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What info , price , warranty , delivery time ? Like I said , not really available .
Dusty
Bring your checkbook and take it home today:
http://www.adventuremotorsportsofnwf.com/default.asp?page=xNewInventoryDetail&id=1354821&p=2&s=Year&d=D&t=new&fr=xNewInventory
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Bring your checkbook and take it home today:
http://www.adventuremotorsportsofnwf.com/default.asp?page=xNewInventoryDetail&id=1354821&p=2&s=Year&d=D&t=new&fr=xNewInventory
Will they take a hot check ? :rolleyes:
Dusty
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Will they take a hot check ? :rolleyes:
Dusty
You can trade something in(not a Guzzi) and they can finance the balance.
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Even if you can't pay for it ? :grin:
Dusty
ESPECIALLY if you can't pay for it. :laugh: That's the very definition of "finance it".
"I don't have the money and don't have any way of paying for it but I want it anyway so can I make a promise and take it with me?"
Lannis
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Even if you can't pay for it ? :grin:
Dusty
M - Mister
O - Oldbike54
T - Totally
U - Underfunded
S - Senior
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M - Mister
O - Oldbike54
T - Totally
U - Underfunded
S - Senior
Hey , SENIOR ? Come on now :laugh:
Dusty
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The newer ADV bikes are more ST or what would be an evolution of them than anything going off road. Take that BMW R1000XR with the inverted forks. Not something to take where anything harder than moss might fly up and hit something.
Seems ADV bikes are just ST bikes with a different genre designation and some very slight cosmetic changes. They sure aren't lighter, more agile and given the way they are designwd , for the most part not really off road capable anymore than the typical SUV could be called an off road vehicle.
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The newer ADV bikes are more ST or what would be an evolution of them than anything going off road. Take that BMW S1000XR with the inverted forks. Not something to take where anything harder than moss might fly up and hit something.
Seems ADV bikes are just ST bikes with a different genre designation and some very slight cosmetic changes. They sure aren't lighter, more agile and given the way they are designwd , for the most part not really off road capable anymore than the typical SUV could be called an off road vehicle.
There have definitely become two types of ADVbike.
The ADVstyled sport-touring bikes with short travel suspensions and cast wheels are really coming on. Seems this was started by Triumph with their 1050 Tigers, and then came the V-stroms. Kawasaki's Versys. The current Multistrada 1200 and BMW S1000XR are definitely high performance sport-touring bikes with Adventure bike styling.
The traditional ADVbike still exists. These bikes have six-inches, or more, of suspension travel and narrower wheels/tires with more off-pavement orientation. Some of these bikes have 8-inches of suspension travel. Starting with the KLR and working up through the BMW and Triumph 800s, then the Super Tenere and KTMS. Finally, the big boys, the BMW R-GS and Guzzi Stelvio.
It's amazing that the Adventure Touring segment, as small as it is, has such a wide variety of machines occupying the space. I think a big contributor is that "sport-touring" is being absorbed by "Adventure Touring". A lot of sport-touring riders went to ADVbikes for the more comfortable seating, but were disappointment with the on-road manners/capabilities of the existing bikes. The OEMS have responded by putting more street-oriented suspension and wheels/tires on the bikes to give these riders the seating they want with the on-road manners they want.
I guess there's room for both, but I hate that the line has blurred like it has.
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Yes and there are one hell of allot of "dirt roads" that offer a whole new appreciation for the single tracker!!
And no LEOs'
Try it if you dare and you will like it!
mike
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If any of you haven't suffered from longterm memory loss. You will remember that when they showed the first one of the Stelvios I said it would make a great touring bike.
Dean
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Contrary to Dusty's claim that these bikes aren't really available, this one came home to my garage today.
(https://davevv.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Marques/Motus/Motus/i-JHJrZqW/0/XL/DSCN0008-XL.jpg)
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Well, it ain't real until you can take 'em to a rally! :boozing:
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Contrary to Dusty's claim that these bikes aren't really available, this one came home to my garage today.
(https://davevv.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Marques/Motus/Motus/i-JHJrZqW/0/XL/DSCN0008-XL.jpg)
Wow!
That's one nice looking bike ... let us know how it gets on ....
Lannis
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Contrary to Dusty's claim that these bikes aren't really available, this one came home to my garage today.
(https://davevv.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Marques/Motus/Motus/i-JHJrZqW/0/XL/DSCN0008-XL.jpg)
OK OK , so they are available now :laugh: Congratulations looks like a nice bike :bow:
Dusty
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Dave needs to brang that thang up to Talihina and show y'all somethin'
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Dave needs to brang that thang up to Talihina and show y'all somethin'
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Yup , we will give that purdy thang a good ol Okie mountain work out :bike-037:
Dusty
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Congrats, I really enjoyed my test ride. Very nice bike, good luck.
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Congrats, Dave! :thumb: I'd look good on that. Do they make em in green? :smiley: :boozing:
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Talihina is a possibility, but I have other things in the works for that weekend as well. Just have to see how everything works out.
And sorry Chuck, but they don't come in green. Red, blue, or silver for the MST. Black, white, or bronze for the MST/R.
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Yeah. The sport-touring segment is being diminished by the road-oriented ADVbike category.
More upright ergos for the old farts who still like to sport-tour.
BMW's new R1000XR being the latest shot across the bow of "traditional" sport-touring motorcycles.
Even Ducati killed the ST line in favor of the more road-going version of the Multistrada with Testastretta engine.
There are still quite a few bikes in the Sport Touring sector, to name a few:
Moto Guzzi Norge
BMW has the R1200RT (more tour than sport), R1200RS and the F800GT
Honda ST1300 and VFR800 Interceptor (If it had shaft or belt drive, I'd be interested)
Yamaha FJR
Kawasaki Concours 1400, Ninja 1000
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There are still quite a few bikes in the Sport Touring sector, to name a few:
Moto Guzzi Norge
BMW has the R1200RT (more tour than sport), R1200RS and the F800GT
Honda ST1300 and VFR800 Interceptor (If it had shaft or belt drive, I'd be interested)
Yamaha FJR
Kawasaki Concours 1400, Ninja 1000
Also the K1300 GT
Still , that is a tough segment to crack , as Honda learned with the VFR 1200 .
Dusty
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There are still quite a few bikes in the Sport Touring sector, to name a few:
Moto Guzzi Norge
BMW has the R1200RT (more tour than sport), R1200RS and the F800GT
Honda ST1300 and VFR800 Interceptor (If it had shaft or belt drive, I'd be interested)
Yamaha FJR
Kawasaki Concours 1400, Ninja 1000
And possibly the most capable bike of this group, the Triumph Trophy ....
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There are still quite a few bikes in the Sport Touring sector, to name a few:
I know that a lot of people consider the sport-touring segment to be a lot broader than I do. Especially the guys with 600-700 touring bikes that are kind of nimble.
Once a bike gets past 600 lbs, I don't really consider it sport-touring. Just touring.
The essence of sport-touring is a "sport bike with bags". The Ducati ST line exemplified that essence.
This MOTUS is its rightful successor. But the market for sport bikes with bags is diminishing as the riders migrate to street-oriented ADVtouring bikes. Some are beginning to call them "Adventure Sport Touring" bikes.
FJR is right at that 600-lbs figure, and is real popular with the LD crowd. But, the number of them that have been "dark sided" tells the tale. They're a touring bike first.
Just like the ADVbike market is getting muddied up with both traditional long-travel suspensions and DS tires, and short-travel suspensions and street tires, the "sport-touring" market was muddied years ago by 600+ lbs touring bikes which were called "sport touring" to make them sound sexier and sell better.
There are two definite ADVbike segments: Bikes with narrow tires and 6"+ suspension, and bikes with wide tires and < 6" suspensions.
There have, for years, been two definite sport-touring segments: 400-550 lbs sport bikes with bags, and 550-750 touring bikes that handle pretty good.
To bad they can't be differentiated better. A Ducati ST4S and a MOTUS MST aren't really related very closely to Yamaha's FJR1300 and Honda's ST1300.
SPORT-touring is dying. The hard-charging riders who rode sportbikes, and transitioned to SPORT-touring bikes to extend their range, are now transitioning to the "Adventure Sport Touring" bikes for the more upright seating.
sport-TOURING bikes seem to be soldiering on. The light-heavyweights of the touring class. Touring riders who want a bike with all the comforts of their Lincoln Towncar, but in a slightly smaller and slightly sportier package than a Goldwing.
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Perhaps, because as a group, we're aging and either can't put with uncompromising seating and riding position or won't put up with it anymore. As we age there are many things were we say "been there done that, don't need to prove anything anymore". Or we get soft.
I've seen too many friends get larger too. Unwilling or unable to keep the weight off (some of us are blessed with more willing genes than others, luck of the draw) need a bike capable of handling the extra mass. sigh.
My Griso can carry soft bags (I have two flavors) so once tarted up for a rally or trip I consider her a sport tourer - wth the rider being less sporty than the bike. My idea of hard charging is pretty tame compared to others (comparing chicken strips, my hard charging is more some others - at least at slow speed :grin: :grin: ).
Or do you want to just include hardbags?
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Perhaps, because as a group, we're aging and either can't put with uncompromising seating and riding position or won't put up with it anymore.
That's me for sure. At some point, I figured out "Why should I try to make myself fit in the space that some tiny test rider said 'Yeah, this'll work' for mile after mile of discomfort. This is MY bike, not his!"
Lannis
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There have, for years, been two definite sport-touring segments: 400-550 lbs sport bikes with bags,
That's what the Aero Lario is all about, Rocker.. :smiley:
BTW, this is the currently being restored Old Taylor distillery near Frankfort, Ky.. an unusual piece of architecture. I have several pix if you're interested.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/wis%2014/1-1043_zpsutoctdgu.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/wis%2014/1-1043_zpsutoctdgu.jpg.html)
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do you want to just include hardbags?
No. I was introduced to SPORT-touring by guys on Ducati Supersports with soft bags thrown over their solo tails.
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No. I was introduced to SPORT-touring by guys on Ducati Supersports with soft bags thrown over their solo tails.
(http://rs147.pbsrc.com/albums/r317/blackkat-1/48A8B75A-DF74-41A3-BC66-B26F92EFFA9B_zpsvx1mtl6m.jpg?w=480&h=480&fit=clip)
I did a long (somewhat complicated) trip on the CX to the National. Mixed freeway and secondary roads and those soft bags didn't leak a bit in some driving rains. Kind of amazing how that little Lemans I fairing works.
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Also the K1300 GT
Still , that is a tough segment to crack , as Honda learned with the VFR 1200 .
Dusty
Honda blew it with that bike. Tiny tank, acc only luggage that was $$$, horrible ergos, long for a sport bike...decent tech with the optional DCT, but the bike was too expensive. You can still buy them new if you look. That same drive train in a better ST bike would help replace the ST1300.
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That's what the Aero Lario is all about, Rocker.. :smiley:
BTW, this is the currently being restored Old Taylor distillery near Frankfort, Ky.. an unusual piece of architecture. I have several pix if you're interested.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c294/elwood59/wis%2014/1-1043_zpsutoctdgu.jpg) (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/elwood59/media/wis%2014/1-1043_zpsutoctdgu.jpg.html)
:thumb:
My paternal family came from Kentucky to Arkansas about 100 years ago. They'd been there forever, so I'm probably related to all the Taylors in Kentucky. Need to do more genealogy, but that's what it's looking like. In the early 1800s, it wasn't too crowded. Got the heck out of Virginia, when it got too crowded, and moved to new land... LOL!
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Perhaps, because as a group, we're aging and either can't put with uncompromising seating and riding position or won't put up with it anymore. As we age there are many things were we say "been there done that, don't need to prove anything anymore". Or we get soft.
I've seen too many friends get larger too. Unwilling or unable to keep the weight off (some of us are blessed with more willing genes than others, luck of the draw) need a bike capable of handling the extra mass. sigh.
My Griso can carry soft bags (I have two flavors) so once tarted up for a rally or trip I consider her a sport tourer - wth the rider being less sporty than the bike. My idea of hard charging is pretty tame compared to others (comparing chicken strips, my hard charging is more some others - at least at slow speed :grin: :grin: ).
Or do you want to just include hardbags?
That says it best, the larger girths aren't all that comfortable with even a slight forward lean so the corn cob up yours with a begging dog arm position become sought after. When you think about it though, the typical ADV riding position is probably the worst you can do for your back, all your weight is on your tailbone and your spine gets compressed and hammered with each ripple in the road.
BMW carried this over to their heavier STs to the point that the ADV ride position and what you get on any larger BMW is the same thing.
Its always easier to get a recliner than get off the chair and trim the weight off.
Nice to see Motus embrace the ST style rather than come out with yet another parade escort bike.
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That says it best, the larger girths aren't all that comfortable with even a slight forward lean so the corn cob up yours with a begging dog arm position become sought after. When you think about it though, the typical ADV riding position is probably the worst you can do for your back, all your weight is on your tailbone and your spine gets compressed and hammered with each ripple in the road.
See, now, that's where generalizations start falling to pieces. I'll stack my girth up against anyone's, but I'm perfectly comfortable on the Stelvio, with my feet up under me and my weight where it belongs. And I've set up my A10 touring bike just like my SP-NT - with short, low bars to give me some forward lean to keep the weight off my arms at highway speed. The "compressing" and "hammering" part, you take care of with proper seat design and with suspension mods to fit you ......
Lannis
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Even on a perfectly upright bike, a slight pull forward to the bars will keep the lower back from sagging painfully.
My current ride is not really easy to stand up on for big bumps, so I have found leaning further forward takes the shock out of the spine.
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When you think about it though, the typical ADV riding position is probably the worst you can do for your back, all your weight is on your tailbone and your spine gets compressed and hammered with each ripple in the road.
Actually, for me at least, it isn't. I typically do several 5,000-km trips to the Maritimes every year to visit family. I usually take my F800GS because the long-travel cushy suspension soaks up every 'ripple', up to and including railway ties. I took the R1150RT a couple of weeks ago, and came back a bit sore, mostly because I'm so used to ignoring poor roads that it took a while to relearn the art of avoiding bumps in the road. On the up-side, the RT is perfectly happy at 165 km/h for long periods of time. The GS is certainly capable, but the knobby tires make me exercise a bit of caution :wink:
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Just some pics of red Motus's being picked up by their owners - I think red is that bikes color (I seem to be a bit biased in favor of red bikes though). Dang.
Just don't need all those horses though
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After putting 505 miles on the bike, I was planning to head for eastern Tennessee on Wednesday 10-7, so I did the 600 mile service on Tuesday. The service only consists of changing oil in the engine and transmission plus a number of checks that are listed in the owner's manual. Took longer than it should since it was my first time working on this bike, but there was nothing difficult about it.
I left late Wednesday morning and arrived at my friend's place in Ducktown, TN around noon on Friday. Cold front came through and it started raining hard around midnight and rained off and on until about noon on Saturday so we didn't do any riding that day. But mixed in with the running around and visiting other friends, I had a little time to adjust on the bike in the afternoon. The brake and shift levers were both too low for my liking, so I tweaked them a bit and it fits more comfortably now.
Ducktown is in far southeast TN, close to The Dragon, Cherahola, Two Wheels of Suches, and the entire region is full of smooth, tight, and twisty mountain roads. Sunday morning, three of us headed over to TWO for breakfast and then continued on over to Rider's Hill. From there we spent about two hours riding those beautiful roads on a roundabout route back to Ducktown. Great fun and perfect for the Motus.
The trip totaled 1973 miles over 8 days, and the bike was perfect. Not one single glitch the whole way. The transmission finally loosened up and started shifting smoothly at about 2000 miles on the odo (has a total of 2478 now). I've said before that this is the best bike I've ever been on in 54 years of riding, and that opinion hasn't changed. Steering is completely neutral and utterly composed at all times. With the huge amount of torque available, it's really great fun in the mountains. For the performance minded, my friend has a racing background and after I sent him out alone on it Sunday afternoon, he did inform me that it hits the rev limiter at 125mph in fourth, and will get there "in the blink of an eye". I don't push things quite that hard, but I had noticed it gets to triple digits awfully quick.
The bike is really comfortable and well set up for it's intended role. I adjusted the bars for the second time while I was doing the 600 service and got it right that time as I had very little soreness in my neck and shoulders after the trip. I've never had a perfect seat and this one isn't either, but it's as good as I've ever had. I didn't even bother fitting one of the three sheepskins I have laying around in my garage. The GIVI panniers easily held four days of clothes, tools, oil, chain lube, Plexus, walking shoes, two extra pairs of gloves, rain suit, and a jacket liner with a little room left over.
A few pictures.
(https://davevv.smugmug.com/Travel/Tennessee/i-h7ZSrzX/0/XL/DSCN0012-XL.jpg)
(https://davevv.smugmug.com/Travel/Tennessee/i-wsKvT8j/0/XL/DSCN0024-XL.jpg)
I woke up to mornings like this several times. BTW, I was only in the handicap space because the motel had put me in the handicap room.
(https://davevv.smugmug.com/Travel/Tennessee/i-72HGKHh/0/XL/DSCN0049-XL.jpg)
That room was in Lynchburg.
(https://davevv.smugmug.com/Travel/Tennessee/i-q629GP8/0/XL/DSCN0031-XL.jpg)
The main building at Two Wheels of Suches.
(https://davevv.smugmug.com/Travel/Tennessee/i-F7tG2Bk/0/XL/DSCN0020-XL.jpg)
Rider's Hill.
(https://davevv.smugmug.com/Travel/Tennessee/i-k5LxVwg/0/XL/DSCN0023-XL.jpg)
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Get many looky loos when you stop?
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Thanks! Keep us up to date. The more data the better.
Sounds like a great bike but it's one nell of a commitment ... !
Lannis
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Get many looky loos when you stop?
Yes and no. It usually takes a little while for someone to notice what it is, or that it just looks a little different, then a crowd will gather around to check it out more closely. So if I'm not stopped for very long, like just filling up with gas, not many folks notice it.
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I've said before that this is the best bike I've ever been on in 54 years of riding,
Wow! What a strong endorsement!
I guess I need to start saving my nickels and dimes.
I'm a SPORT-tourer at heart.
:bike-037:
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I hate you. :boozing:
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Not a whole lot of "data" to report, Lannis. But the on board computer does say that it has gotten 45mpg for the total mileage so far. I've only taken the time to check and calculate two tanks full, and I came up with ~42mpg both times. Either way, I thought it was pretty decent for a 1650cc engine that puts out the power this one does.
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Not a whole lot of "data" to report, Lannis. But the on board computer does say that it has gotten 45mpg for the total mileage so far. I've only taken the time to check and calculate two tanks full, and I came up with ~42mpg both times. Either way, I thought it was pretty decent for a 1650cc engine that puts out the power this one does.
That really is good gas mileage.
I'm only asking because you're our "pioneer" when it comes to this new type of sport-touring bike. You know - the guy with two arrows through his hat, one in his arm, his pants torn up by wolves .... Hope it keeps going "smooth"!
Lannis
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I've said before that this is the best bike I've ever been on in 54 years of riding, and that opinion hasn't changed.
Congrats, and enjoy.
I had an opportunity to spend some time with a couple of them last weekend at Barber. Really nice bikes. Wish I could afford one. :grin:
(https://tswphoto.smugmug.com/photos/i-f2cvX6s/0/L/i-f2cvX6s-L.jpg)
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I'm fascinated with the Motus and I can afford a Motus (still working at just shy of my 79th birthday), but my frugal nature allows me only the luxury of vicariously enjoying one through the experiences of others. I want to see this bike succeed and many times wondered if they'd ever get them on dealers' showroom floors and then whether or not they'd sell. Well, all appears to be going well and I look forward to more owner assessments of this great American bike!
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Ralph , I will get more enthused when they build a flat tracker :laugh:
Dusty
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They brought one of their latest incarnations to Barber's. A belt driven turbo and plenty of gas. It looked comfortable with someone riding it but I just don't get the whole tiny tail look.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/H3dBAb1iajn9DKFau_JZB3h1RrcN2oy7kYS3EeE6x8dEqXJoit4W6VUPauaiBsXtjj5hoCnQqwYVvbQ5CG9xlIjfhr_OnNttPqkfIVy8KyvHaCnoM9CTkIWs0r3b7mnMiBq98VtindXvHe9F8xZPYiYiDZsNHSHEU7ml5RzhbJd1PuKoxTe-pUIrk2DsHnXA8X5wMJs0zbDFaAOJVR7NTX6IF6E-BPQE6dWL91MlFwRHcOH6sSVrQR91w3VmbLl3vUmWO2sKgtbyL9ZeLRVQxs4Yi0nF-l-BgdsdA_mc585pFky5c4lJHynz5XdSdCIuMHbrRzQ5iyzpf5mUjcc1Om5SxrOieom127KA-IRmsFxL3fvp1ZNRXUfJkFsjBH3bz0WZMAiyhx7e0jGn2xWdH5840yZLCHwpkwQppDNCkCTJrDRmxbBREs-d8N54-EvZCv3iw4K4D4ZOO9RrthAOq5FjjCRJff-ZjAaZhp0JZiD9wFIf7ROcW3PwV8y9XXCiYMZZrfh3fmWm92Td94XUfWQkqTr0ooQbm7T303EFivM=w1136-h639-no)
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Ralph , I will get more enthused when they build a flat tracker :laugh:
Dusty
You're going to run out of excuses pretty soon .... ! :thewife: :wink: :laugh:
Lannis
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You're going to run out of excuses pretty soon .... ! :thewife: :wink: :laugh:
Lannis
I'm gonna run out of money first :laugh: Maybe if I sold my house ... Lannis , ya got a spare room :evil:
Dusty
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I'm gonna run out of money first :laugh: Maybe if I sold my house ... Lannis , ya got a spare room :evil:
Dusty
3 spare rooms, and space in the garage for a Motus; price of admission, you know ....
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Honda blew it with that bike. Tiny tank, acc only luggage that was $$$, horrible ergos, long for a sport bike...decent tech with the optional DCT, but the bike was too expensive. You can still buy them new if you look. That same drive train in a better ST bike would help replace the ST1300.
Tiny tank...5 gallons and I average 43 mpg on my commute like clockwork= 215 mile range, not the worst out there.
acc only luggage that was $$$...that's ironic being posted in a Motu$ 31-37K motorcycle thread.
Horrible ergo's...maybe for you... I find them perfect for me.
too expensive .... yeah back in 2010....I purchased my DCT as a new leftover in 2012 for thousands off MSRP (guzzi content) :)
As a SPORT touring motorcycle with shaft drive,ABS,and factory hard luggage HONDA hit this bike out of the park. This has been the best bike I have ridden in 36 years of street riding. IMHO
I prefer my Sport tourer with soft luggage and submit the following picture as proof. (ridden to BRP from WI not loaded on a trailer)
(http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy272/zxmick/Michaels2012BRPtrip069_zps0adccb52.jpg)
Comparing the VFR 1200 (manual transmission) weight wise with the Motus 580lbs vs 580lbs (the VFR has shaft drive) I prefer the shaft drive thank you. Some stats found online from Rider Magazine. Notice only a 5.5 gallon fuel tank. :evil: wonder if that small tank will get all the nasty hate that the VFR's small tank got over the last 5 years.
Chassis
Frame: 4130 chrome-moly tubular-steel trellis space frame w/ tubular-steel swingarm
Wheelbase: 58.1 in.
Rake/Trail: 26 degrees/4.25 in.
Seat Height: 32.5 in.
Suspension, Front: 43mm Öhlins NIX30 inverted fork, fully adj. w/ 5.1-in. travel
Rear: Single PS shock, adj. for spring preload & rebound damping w/ 4.7-in. travel/Ohlins TTX36, fully adj.
Brakes, Front: Dual 320mm discs w/ opposed 4-piston radial calipers
Rear: Single 200mm disc w/ 2-piston pin-slide caliper
Wheels, Front: Forged/Carbon fiber, 3.50 x 17 in.
Rear: Forged/Carbon fiber, 6.00 x 17 in.
Tires, Front: 120/70-ZR17
Rear: 190/70-ZR17
Claimed Wet Weight: 580/565 lbs.
Performance
Fuel Capacity: 5.5 gals.
MPG: 91 PON min. (low/avg/high) NA
I like Motus and hope they succeed, I have read that they are trying to get ABS ready for next year's model. Thats a big plus in my book.
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A friend of mine rides his VFR 1200 to our Moto Guzzi gatherings and we laugh how it is actually more exotic/rare than the Guzzi's. The VFR is an acquired taste and I think it should have been named ST and not VFR. The engine is pretty nice and he goes way further on a tank than I can with my GRiSO... The VFR does seem to eat it tires though...
Eric
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A friend of mine rides his VFR 1200 to our Moto Guzzi gatherings and we laugh how it is actually more exotic/rare than the Guzzi's. The VFR is an acquired taste and I think it should have been named ST and not VFR. The engine is pretty nice and he goes way further on a tank than I can with my GRiSO... The VFR does seem to eat it tires though...
Eric
I was an original owner of a 1991 VFR750 AND A 1993 ST1100. I bought both bikes new. The VFR1200 is a VFR like the original WAY more than an ST1100. Picture of bikes. Yeah honda made a shaft drive VFR. :thumb: Quite an accomplishment. :evil: I do love the v4 engines in a motorcycle. 150 RWHP tends to eat rear tires....
(http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy272/zxmick/photo7.jpg)
(http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy272/zxmick/photo9.jpg)
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An owner told me ST1100s get moved around by side winds.
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An owner told me ST1100s get moved around by side winds.
True of any bike with that much bodywork .
Dusty
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Ralph , I will get more enthused when they build a flat tracker :laugh:
Dusty
Yeah, Dusty, and as "King Kenny" Roberts said, "They can't pay me enough to ride this thing"!!
Ralph
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Yeah, Dusty, and as "King Kenny" Roberts said, "They can't pay me enough to ride this thing"!!
Ralph
Oddly enough , he recently was quoted as saying it wasn't that bad . Rose colored glasses and all :rolleyes:
Dusty
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Okay I jumped and bought a new Motus (the cheap one MST) I hope I don't regret it down the road. What little I have ridden it WOW great bike but it should be for what they cost. :bike-037:
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Congrats. I was fortunate to go on a demo ride with Lee Conn on both models earlier this year; VERY impressive motorcycle. Best of luck.
:gotpics:
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The Motus is the most exhilarating motorcycle I've ridden.
They are like a Guzzi on steroids.
I have seriously grappled with buying an MST-R like the one I rode.
However, and I know this sounds wimpy, I have been trying to slow down over the last few years. I sold my BMW R1200S which was not far down from the Motus on the ladder of exhiration.
I still have fast machines that will kill you but I have backed off on hot dog runs with them- most of the time. These very high-powered bikes like the Motus are impossible (for me) to ride in the way I should be riding.
No matter how experienced and skilled a rider can be, sooner or later, the laws of chance will catch up with you.
Having said all that, I still want a Motus. May the OP have a lot of fun on his - and try to be careful.
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Oh, my! :bow: :police: Must talk to my benefactor about our Spring rally. Might be worth it to have that bike where I can see it. You WILL be at the KY rally, won't you?
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Attaboy, Derek! :thumb: Careful, now.. :copcar: :smiley:
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Congrats on pulling the trigger :thumb:
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Awesome! I am SO Freakin Jealous!
-AJ
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CONGRATS! So what color?
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Oh dear me... Never seen one until now. I thought I'd had some horn bikes but, nup. Can you post pics ir vids of your bike, best looking new entry for a niche manufacturer. Makes MV's and stuff look and appear like Hondas. Con bloody grats, please keep us updated. BTW, is it rude to ask $$$ ? Not that it matters, it out Bimota's a Bimota.
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Oh btw, what's the running gear like ? Can you give us a report ?
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congrats. I'd love to ride one. :thumb:
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It is Red I love it have the break in miles on it already and need the first service. Which is covered (thanks Lee) I am running in last gear 3k at about 70mph +-2 and if you go 80 is 500 + on the tack so for every ten mph you gain 500 rpm's on the tack so going 100 4.5k on the tack. It is very powerful not the fastest bike I have had but very nice and fun. Thanks guys pictures will follow. Perhaps the last new bike I will buy in my lifetime....
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A freakin' MOTUS !!
YOU DOG !! CONGRATS!!! :thumb:
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You Dog............ pics and details please. :bow:
Are they available up here in the land of Canada?
Ciao
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I saw it. Very pretty. Sounds like two Guzzis playing ping pong with two balls. The overall impression is well, impressive. If you have to think about owning your last bike, it might as well be a Motus.
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I saw it. Very pretty. Sounds like two Guzzis playing ping pong with two balls. The overall impression is well, impressive. If you have to think about owning your last bike, it might as well be a Motus.
Good thing I'm too old now or I'd definitely be tempted. :grin:
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:gotpics:
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(http://thumb.ibb.co/c4bKmF/IMG_20161106_120620257.jpg) (http://ibb.co/c4bKmF)
image
hosting (http://imgbb.com/)
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Congrats. I was fortunate to go on a demo ride with Lee Conn on both models earlier this year; VERY impressive motorcycle. Best of luck.
:gotpics:
That was a good weekend, wasn't it?
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Perhaps the last new bike I will buy in my lifetime....
Famous last words ranking right up there with 'nobody needs more than 64k of ram.'
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Famous last words ranking right up there with 'nobody needs more than 64k of ram.'
Must be dating myself. My CNC has 16K. (!)
But, yes.. Derek's Motus is gorgeous. More mechanical noise than I expected.. like RK says, 2 Guzzis playing ping pong. :smiley:
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Red IS the fastest color!!
If I am elected president, a red Motus in EVERY garage!! :grin:
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Must be dating myself. My CNC has 16K. (!)
But, yes.. Derek's Motus is gorgeous. More mechanical noise than I expected.. like RK says, 2 Guzzis playing ping pong. :smiley:
Ever heard a Guzzi Centauro running? They aren't quiet. :huh:
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Red IS the fastest color!!
If I am elected president, a red Motus in EVERY garage!! :grin:
You have my vote and we don't even have a President!
That is a mighty purdy looking bike there Beardog.
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Ever heard a Guzzi Centauro running? They aren't quiet. :huh:
Uhh, I put 42K on one. :smiley: The Motus is louder.
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Congrats from a Red Dog!
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Resurrecting this thread in hopes of getting some updates from the Motus owners.
The Motus bug has bitten me, and it is a infectious bite! It all started with me realizing there is a Motus dealer in Dolores, CO and I am going to be riding through there with the Wildguzzi Western Adventure on Sept. 8. They currently have 3 in stock, so hopefully I will at least get to see and sit on one. Anyway, a Motus for me is not out of the question but I have quite a few reservations, mostly related to long term reliability, parts availability, and how often/how much servicing they require? Also ergos, but that question can be answered by a test ride, which is possible.
It is definitely time for an update from the fortunate few. How are your Moti holding up and how has the ownership experience been? Any regrets?
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Alan,
You might want to pick up the new issue of "Motorcyclist". Long story on how the bikes are hand built including the guy that casts the aluminum engine, another guy that welds the frame and a lady that cuts & lays the carbon fiber.
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Hamlins personal Motus is for sale. Perfectly sorted.
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Resurrecting this thread in hopes of getting some updates from the Motus owners.
The Motus bug has bitten me, and it is a infectious bite! It all started with me realizing there is a Motus dealer in Dolores, CO and I am going to be riding through there with the Wildguzzi Western Adventure on Sept. 8. They currently have 3 in stock, so hopefully I will at least get to see and sit on one. Anyway, a Motus for me is not out of the question but I have quite a few reservations, mostly related to long term reliability, parts availability, and how often/how much servicing they require? Also ergos, but that question can be answered by a test ride, which is possible.
It is definitely time for an update from the fortunate few. How are your Moti holding up and how has the ownership experience been? Any regrets?
Forget all those questions and analysis. Just go ride one.
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Forget all those questions and analysis. Just go ride one.
Hmm, just go ride one. Yeah, that's the plan. But for someone prone to serious bouts of motorcycle lust that is a scary thought. This isn't "just another bike", and I don't think I will get away with buying a Motus and then deciding it wasn't really the right bike for me after all. If I do this, it will need to be because I REALLY want this bike, and by REALLY I mean for the long haul, this is my bike. There won't be any turning back. :thewife:
My wife is great, and has indulged my many bike fantasies, but she reasonably has limits and so does the bank account!
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Hmm, just go ride one. Yeah, that's the plan. But for someone prone to serious bouts of motorcycle lust that is a scary thought. This isn't "just another bike", and I don't think I will get away with buying a Motus and then deciding it wasn't really the right bike for me after all. If I do this, it will need to be because I REALLY want this bike, and by REALLY I mean for the long haul, this is my bike. There won't be any turning back. :thewife:
My wife is great, and has indulged my many bike fantasies, but she reasonably has limits and so does the bank account!
Yes, Alan, I didn't mean that as flippant. My point is to go ride it first and that will affect your subsequent analysis.
I am more tempted about the Motus than anything out there right now. I just don't know that I could behave myself on it. The power is astounding. Rides good too. Handles well and is comfortable.
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Yes, Alan, I didn't mean that as flippant. My point is to go ride it first and that will affect your subsequent analysis.
I am more tempted about the Motus than anything out there right now. I just don't know that I could behave myself on it. The power is astounding. Rides good too. Handles well and is comfortable.
Thanks. Yeah, in theory the Motus is a bull eye to my sweet spot on the perfect motorcycle. Gorgeous to my eye, unique, well made, sport touring styling with minimal bodywork, emphasis on the sport, powerful, oozes character. I can't imagine a test ride is going to do anything other than increase my interest. So I have to be careful and not get carried away, because there are negatives. No ABS is a drawback, insurance costs might be an issue, keeping my license might be an issue, no dealer nearby, questionable future for the company and thus long term parts and service availability. I have to keep it all in perspective which is hard to do with something this enticing... :drool:
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Motorvation, in Mechanicsburg, PA just picked up Motus.
They had a demo event yesterday and today. I went today and took the MST for a ride. I LOVE the "Iron Ore Metallic" (orange) color!
125 lb*ft or torque and under 600#. Wow, this thing is a rocket ship. It readily lifts the front wheel with out the help of the clutch in 2nd, and IIRC third gear :shocked:
The brakes are excellent, and ergonomics superb! The Sargent seat is quite comfortable as I would expect, since I have one on my F800GT.
The clutch sounds about midway between a clutch Ducati and a Moto Guzzi. The power train's character is very similar to a dry-clutch Ducati. Riding it really reminded me of my old Breva 1100, only with a LOT more power.
Anyone that likes a sporting Guzzi would love this bike.
Like others, I would've liked to have seen shaft drive on this, instead of a chain. I would think that many people willing to spend this kind of change on a sport tourer aren't going to want to deal with a chain.
Other small niggles, are no handlebar controls to switch modes not he TFT display. A few others who rode it today complained about the visibility of said display. I would rather have analog gauges for the tach and speedo.
Another there, who rode one a couple years ago commented that the fit and finish of the bike we rode today was an improvement over the one he rode in 2015. He said that the welds on the 2015 bike were not very good looking. The fit and finish on this bike was very good.
Also, without ABS and traction control, many in this segment will likely opt for a BMW.
But, overall, kudos to Motus, I'm happy to see a motorcycle produced in the US that is not a cruiser. I wish them very well. Hopefully, they'll expand their lineup to include something in the lower $20k range, which would be very enticing to me.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4334/36392306265_40e5a2288a_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XrS5Li)IMG_1567 (https://flic.kr/p/XrS5Li) by jay_snyder67 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/97354518@N02/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4426/36392307295_c9be495741_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XrS654)IMG_1566 (https://flic.kr/p/XrS654) by jay_snyder67 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/97354518@N02/), on Flickr
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WOW!! What a beautiful sport touring machine! CONGRATS and safe riding!!! :thumb: :1: :cool:
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Also, without ABS and traction control, many in this segment will likely opt for a BMW.
Hold the phone! No ABS?
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Hold the phone! No ABS?
:1:
You have to be kidding, right!
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I am a 2017 Motus owner after the original owner traded it in with 2800 miles. I was lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time to get a Motus at a price point that was were I tapped out when they announced pricing.
No, it doesn't have ABS. No, it doesn't have Traction Control. Yes, it's a chain final drive. Yes, it has cruise control (and fly-by-wire throttle)
about the other comments-
The engine has torque for days, power rolls on in a linear fashion. Geared very tall to take advantage of that torque without being too snatchy.
Brakes are indeed excellent, but not over braked. This was a goal of Motus. My Diavel would be over braked by comparison.
Ergos are second to none. Fantastic seating space, seat is better than the Stelvio, and riding position is better than most ADV bikes.
The clutch isn't what's noisy. It's a wet clutch. You can't hear the clutch. What you are hearing is a noise gearbox. Mainly the engine shaft before it makes a 90 degree turn for all the other functions. The engine pulses are what causes the 'rattle'.
Chain drive isn't a big deal. Really, it's not. Modern x-ring chains are pretty bullet proof for 20k miles. Even without taking care of it much. The cost of heft of a shaft wasn't what Motus was going for- lightweight sporting was their goal.
There are no handlebar controls. LOTS of dash functions, but they are quite a distance from the rider. Most all you want to see is on the main dash (adjustable viewing too- digital, analog, various combos). I'll have an example posted soon on my blog page (below). The TFT display is pretty damn good in any lighting. It's at a high angle to eliminate reflection and the colors are such that it's easy to see.
Fit and finish are VERY good on the MSTR I have. The carbon is well done, welds are great (see blog for one exception), and everything seems top notch.
My usual comment is "it's not for everyone"
Blog: https://motusmstr.blogspot.com/
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I've been told...and I have read...that anyone who rides and appreciates a Guzzi will LOVE the Motus!! :1: :thumb: :cool:
Would love to test ride one someday... :cool: :thumb: :1:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/ibpJ1a/Screen_Shot_2017_08_07_at_12_43_29_PM.png) (http://ibb.co/ibpJ1a)
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Chain drive isn't a big deal. Really, it's not. Modern x-ring chains are pretty bullet proof for 20k miles. Even without taking care of it much. The cost of heft of a shaft wasn't what Motus was going for- lightweight sporting was their goal.
I was recently directed toward DuPont Chainsaver. It's available in spray and liquid. It's a wax based lubricant with fine Teflon powder in it. It isn't sticky when dry, and it's very easy and non-messy to apply in either form.
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I've been told...and I have read...that anyone who rides and appreciates a Guzzi will LOVE the Motus!! :1: :thumb: :cool:
Having just rode one, this is very true!
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Having just rode one, this is very true!
I would think that you knowing me would know that statement is not universally true.
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I left the Datil Rally early Sat. Morning to go to Dolores, CO to test ride a Motus MST with my buddy Bob. I still can't get over there is dealer in Dolores, and it was quite a place. In addition to Motus they also restore Vincent's, and had several gorgeous restorations on the floor...along with a host of other interesting bikes. They had 2 MSTs and an MSTR.
Bob is a BMW guy through and through, and was just "along for the ride". He knew nothing about a Motus. Sam, the owner of Four Corners Motus, pulled out a red MST and started it for us. I have to say that both Bob and I were awed by the thing. What a machine, and what a glorious noise it makes. I have never heard anything like it. The bike really looks Italian to me, but more Ducati than Guzzi except for the engine. Anyway, I hopped on and headed for Rico with Bob following on his 1200 GS. About half way to Rico, I pulled over and swapped bikes with Bob. Within 2 miles, we got pulled over for speeeding. :copcar:
It was a complicated situation, but the LEO claimed he clocked us at 90 in a 55. Yikes! But then he said he didn't get a good lock on us and let us go with a warning. Whew! But it sort of took the fun out of the test ride and we headed back to the barn being careful to not speed (which is hard to do on this thing).
My impressions (and Bobs).
The bike is an awesome machine. It is total quality, built like a tank, and sort of sounds like one too. Has to be the most comfortable sport tourer ever made. Stupid power.
It's most outstanding feature to me is how it tracks and handles. I have never been on a bike that comes close to Way this things feels, which is just perfect. I really don't even have words for how solid and easy to control it is. Effortless steering is a phrase that has been used before, but this thing sets the bar WAY HIGH. On the Motus, I think I could go 90 and feel totally in control in a situation where I would be scared to do 70 on my FJR. And the FJR is no slouch bike!
But there is another side to the coin. No ABS or TC. I thought the wind protection was pretty poor, but there are 2 other screen options. The LCD screen which serves as the gauges is small and hard to see in full sunlight. And there are no handlebar controls. The shift peg was hard to find (seemed too short), and I struggled to find neutral. Otherwise the shifting was stiff, but pretty smooth. The overall effect was a bike that seems an outstanding motive device, but which is a bit raw, rough, and crude compared to my FJR or Norge. So, I think it would Second to none in the fun to ride category, but not so hot in the easy/relaxing to ride category.
Bottom line for me is I am interested in one. I see huge pluses but also some negatives compared to the FJR. The Motus would be an exciting bike to ride, but maybe not easy enough to live with over the long haul. I'm thinking on it....