Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dogwalker on September 25, 2014, 10:11:13 AM
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http://www.moto.it/intermot-colonia/moto-guzzi-v7-ii-e-aprilia-caponord-1200-rally-a-intermot.html
http://www.motoblog.it/post/343942/anteprima-moto-guzzi-v7-ii-my-2015
Six speed gearbox, ABS and traction control. With the new gearbox, the engine is rotated forward, as the BB was with the introduction of the CARC.
http://www.intermot-cologne.com/en/intermot/home/index.php
*added INTERMOT dates to subject line.
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http://www.moto.it/intermot-colonia/moto-guzzi-v7-ii-e-aprilia-caponord-1200-rally-a-intermot.html
http://www.motoblog.it/post/343942/anteprima-moto-guzzi-v7-ii-my-2015
Six speed gearbox, ABS and traction control. With the new gearbox, the engine is rotated forward, as the BB was with the introduction of the CARC.
Wow, cool! ;-T
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25 mm lower and the six speed. ;-T ABS and traction control? <sigh> I suppose it has to come on all new bikes.
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Can't wait to see the full report on changes/new models.
You wouldn't kill me if I ended up selling the V11 (Lemon) LeMans to get a V7 II... would you Chuck? :D ;)
I wonder if they'll just slap the required ABS onto the Griso or if they'll replace/upgrade that model as well? All of the other BB Guzzis already have it.
Edit: I also like how they brought back the "II" as in Lemans II, Imola II, etc. etc.
When was the last time they used that scheme?
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Wow, I honestly like my smallblock so much that if this was different enough in performance, but close enough in feel, I'd consider adding another to the garage.
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What, no cruise control??
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And kind of in English.
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.moto.it%2Fintermot-colonia%2Fmoto-guzzi-v7-ii-e-aprilia-caponord-1200-rally-a-intermot.html&edit-text=
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It makes sense. The V7 series are their most popular models. The gearbox casing looks very similar to the CARC bike box. What's the betting the internals will be very similar? Reminds me of the thinking behind the Ippogrifo which used the V11 gearbox and bevelbox but in a non reactive package. Lowering the overall gearing could be done either on the gearbox primary or at the bevelbox.
Pete
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What are the chances of breaking the rear tire loose under acceleration on a small block Guzzi? :-\
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What are the chances of breaking the rear tire loose under acceleration on a small block Guzzi? :-\
I've done it on loose gravel. I'm sure it is possible in rain too. But, I do agree with you, traction control is not really necessary on a 40 RWHP bike.
These electronic aids don't prevent all traction loss. Traction control and ABS won't prevent loss of traction due to abrupt clutch engagement at the wrong time. Plain swing arm shaft drive (not CARC or Paralever) is especially susceptible to this due to "shaft jacking." I had a close call like this when I was still very green (only riding a few months, 2009 V7C was first bike).
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What are the chances of breaking the rear tire loose under acceleration on a small block Guzzi? :-\
I think it is more of a slippery road surface than a power induced lost of traction.
With ABS and RBW (ride-by-wire), it cost next to nothing in terms of hardware for the bike to have traction control function, just need a few extra lines in the software.
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With ABS and RBW (ride-by-wire), it cost next to nothing in terms of hardware for the bike to have traction control function, just need a few extra lines in the software.
Ahh, but it turns out the 1TB V7's (at least first generation) are not RBW after all. They don't even have a pintle for idle control (that's done with timing).
At least that's my current understanding.
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Ahh, but it turns out the 1TB V7's (at least first generation) are not RBW after all. They don't even have a pintle for idle control (that's done with timing).
At least that's my current understanding.
I stand corrected.
Probably achieved through ignition/fuel control ;D
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No air control for idle???? Seriously?
Maybe that's why they stumble off-idle when cold.
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This is the latest that Pete has reported on here. Yes, ignition/fuel control for idle speed.
YES, that probably has a lot to do with the cold idle problems some of us have reported.
I just showed this one to Jenn, she really likes it.
Hmmmmmm.
I don't really WANT to buy a Bonnie...
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Can't wait to see the full report on changes/new models.
You wouldn't kill me if I ended up selling the V11 (Lemon) LeMans to get a V7 II... would you Chuck? :D ;)
I wonder if they'll just slap the required ABS onto the Griso or if they'll replace/upgrade that model as well? All of the other BB Guzzis already have it.
Edit: I also like how they brought back the "II" as in Lemans II, Imola II, etc. etc.
When was the last time they used that scheme?
Heavens no. I'm just trying to help you get a machine back together. What you do with it is entirely your business.. ;D
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This is the latest that Pete has reported on here. Yes, ignition/fuel control for idle speed.
YES, that probably has a lot to do with the cold idle problems some of us have reported.
I just showed this one to Jenn, she really likes it.
Hmmmmmm.
I don't really WANT to buy a Bonnie...
When I saw the yellow, I figured that you'd be all over it. If Jenn really likes it, you definitely need to get it. Then you'll have a "guest V7" for your Pennsylvania friends to ride when they visit by car. ;-T
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I just showed this one to Jenn, she really likes it.
Hmmmmmm.
I don't really WANT to buy a Bonnie...
~; ~; ~; ~; ~; ~;
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Smart move in marketing the model to new customers - make it a bit lower too as well as safer, without changing the winning retro look!
;-T
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Translated page re 6 speed tranny: "The V7 II (commercially available from November) debuts a new six-speed transmission with new ratios, which allows to approximate the first and the last two reports?, decreasing the drop in speed between one gear to another. Together with the change has been the subject of improvements also the clutch to get a command softer."" ???
Lower first would be good for a dirt bike too .... hmmm
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With the single TB bikes with the MUIG controller or whatever its called the way it was explained to me is that although it looks like a conventional, cable controlled, butterfly in the throttle body it is in fact a sort of hybrid 'Semi-ride by wire' system.
Yes, when you twist the throttle it turns a cam on the side of the throttle body but the actual 'Physical' twist only opens the throttle plate a small amount, this is to allow the bike to still be able to limp home if something goes wrong with the controller. When everything is working correctly though once past this stage of very small opening the cam plate and shaft simply activate the demand sensor in the same way that is done on the full RBW machines although on those the demand sensor is located remote from the throttle bodies. From there using all the inputs available the ECU, (Also integral to the MUIG unit.) calculates the position needed for the throttle plate and it is moved there and an appropriate amount of fuel and spark advance is delivered.
Now I hasten to add that this is how it was explained to me very early in the piece by the tech boffin at the importer but that was very early days. This explanation was contradicted by Mike Haven who believed it was a 'Conventional' butterfly control. I have never had the opportunity to examine one closely, much less tear one to bits unfortunately!
As for the idle control? Well, the single TB bikes don't have a separate stepper motor, nor do they appear to have any reference made to an air-over-idle speed control. The way the engine behaves when started is also extremely similar to the Cali 14 which IS a full RBW system. Press the starter button and the engine will fire up and race for a second before it drops back to a slightly erratic idle that then should stabilise over a few seconds as the ECU adjusts the timing and mixture decay figures.
I'd love to be able to get to the bottom of this and find out definitively exactly how it works, problem is that quite simply the factory doesn't tell US grunt-level types very much and that makes it very frustrating. We are just told 'Plug in PADS and if it says something is FUBAR replace it.' GAKKK! Sorry, I can't work like that!
Pete
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How about that.
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I have not ridden a V7 yet, but I most certainly will be test riding this one.
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Surprisingly, i like these mods, together they add up to an even better bike. So often newer models leave me satisfied with what I have. This time, I may actually be envious. Kudos to MG for their continued push forward.
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I like that they got rid of the dagoed look. Wonder how much extra all the little boxes are going to cost us.
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The announced updates are everything on my list of what I would want changed. I like my '13 V7 Stone very much, and I'll very likely switch to a V7 II Stone as soon as I can get my hands on one. I may never actually need the ABS and traction control, but we never know, do we? The 6th gear will come in handy, since I do sometimes instinctively try to shift to 6th when I'm traveling above 70 mph. And yes, I could use more leg room behind the cylinder heads.
Regarding whether or not the MIU G3 unit is RBW, I believe I read something from the manufacturer (Marelli) that agrees with Vasco DG's description: The throttle cables move what is essentially a potentiometer that, in turn, actuates a throttle stepper motor under control of the other ECU inputs. Whether or not there is a mechanical "limp home" backup involved, I can't answer.
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The regulator is different. Supposed to have more a bit more electric power I recall.
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http://www.motociclismo.it/moto-guzzi-v7-ii-arrivano-l-abs-e-il-controllo-di-trazione-moto-59770
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Looks good with the engine more forward and slimmer trans case. I think a 6th gear is a good idea on the current V7. Give it more 4-valve heads instead please! Traction control, etc. pfft.
-Kevin
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With the single TB bikes with the MUIG controller or whatever its called the way it was explained to me is that although it looks like a conventional, cable controlled, butterfly in the throttle body it is in fact a sort of hybrid 'Semi-ride by wire' system.
Yes, when you twist the throttle it turns a cam on the side of the throttle body but the actual 'Physical' twist only opens the throttle plate a small amount, this is to allow the bike to still be able to limp home if something goes wrong with the controller. When everything is working correctly though once past this stage of very small opening the cam plate and shaft simply activate the demand sensor in the same way that is done on the full RBW machines although on those the demand sensor is located remote from the throttle bodies. From there using all the inputs available the ECU, (Also integral to the MUIG unit.) calculates the position needed for the throttle plate and it is moved there and an appropriate amount of fuel and spark advance is delivered.
Now I hasten to add that this is how it was explained to me very early in the piece by the tech boffin at the importer but that was very early days. This explanation was contradicted by Mike Haven who believed it was a 'Conventional' butterfly control. I have never had the opportunity to examine one closely, much less tear one to bits unfortunately!
As for the idle control? Well, the single TB bikes don't have a separate stepper motor, nor do they appear to have any reference made to an air-over-idle speed control. The way the engine behaves when started is also extremely similar to the Cali 14 which IS a full RBW system. Press the starter button and the engine will fire up and race for a second before it drops back to a slightly erratic idle that then should stabilise over a few seconds as the ECU adjusts the timing and mixture decay figures.
I'd love to be able to get to the bottom of this and find out definitively exactly how it works, problem is that quite simply the factory doesn't tell US grunt-level types very much and that makes it very frustrating. We are just told 'Plug in PADS and if it says something is FUBAR replace it.' GAKKK! Sorry, I can't work like that!
Pete
:-X Ha ha...I give up trying to understand it.
I'm now convinced it simply works by witchcraft. :D
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I was looking at some links and got to thinking how close Moto Guzzi is to topping the Triumph and Kawasaki retro standards, feature for feature, save horsepower compared to the larger bigger bulkier heavier Triumph twins.
The Kawasaki 800 isn't sold in all the same markets but I am guessing they would have sold more numbers of the 800 compared to the V7.
Still looking for the model sales figures to be sure but one 2014 sales stats available for 250cc and above sales for Kawasaki: = 34000 units sold first half of this year.)
A bit more displacement and power and the V7 would take a lot more sales away from the competition! ....... :pop
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Now if they take that motive package, couple it with a reactive rear end and put it in a mini Stelvio I'll be all over it like a rash!!! 8)
Pete
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This is good news.
Good news for me as the used price in old V7's will drop as people sell them to get the newfangled V7's. I have lust for an older V7 to convert to a Scrambler
Still I wonder if the "traction control" is not just one more thing to go wrong? As in water in a sensor wire connection - sound familiar?
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http://www.motociclismo.it/moto-guzzi-v7-ii-arrivano-l-abs-e-il-controllo-di-trazione-moto-59770
"Tenendo a precisare che il grosso delle novità sarà presentato a Eicma (6-9 novembre), Moto Guzzi anticipa i tempi regalandoci un’anteprima delle moto 2015 che invece debutteranno a Colonia"
Pointing out that the bulk of the novelities will be still presented at EICMA (6-9 November), Moto Guzzi, in Cologne, is giving us a preview of the bike that will debut in 2015.
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This is good news.
Good news for me as the used price in old V7's will drop as people sell them to get the newfangled V7's. I have lust for an older V7 to convert to a Scrambler
Still I wonder if the "traction control" is not just one more thing to go wrong? As in water in a sensor wire connection - sound familiar?
All the electrical gim crackery is just something to go wrong that I can't fix. <snapping suspenders> And.. unless you have a very good Guzzi dealer, he won't be able to fix it either. The only problems I had with the Norge were the stupid ABS brakes and computerized dash. No thanks. <tamping corncob pipe>
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Gearbox comparison. Above the old one, in the middle the new one, below that of the California 1400.
(http://www.omnimoto.it/mwpImages/photogallery/2012/5172/photos1280/moto-guzzi-v7-gamma-2012-motore_14.jpg)
(http://www.motociclismo.it/cache/gallery/1/1/5/65/02_MotoGuzzi_V7II_Stone.jpg_2000.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-V4T3LbhP6nY/UWFiLPK018I/AAAAAAAAqwE/WdqbZcvp8XQ/s640/California+1400+Engine+2013+04.jpg)
http://www.omnimoto.it/mwpImages/photogallery/2012/5172/photos1280/moto-guzzi-v7-gamma-2012-motore_14.jpg
http://www.motociclismo.it/cache/gallery/1/1/5/65/02_MotoGuzzi_V7II_Stone.jpg_2000.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-V4T3LbhP6nY/UWFiLPK018I/AAAAAAAAqwE/WdqbZcvp8XQ/s640/California+1400+Engine+2013+04.jpg
DogW
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the value of my 13 V7 special just went up as folks will now want one of the older, simpler and therefore more reliable models
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Gearbox comparison. Above the old one, in the middle the new one, below that of the California 1400.
Uh, both the V7 ones look the same to me.
the value of my 13 V7 special just went up as folks will now want one of the older, simpler and therefore more reliable models
I'll take $15k for my 2013 Racer. ;)
This is the very desirable, uber-reliable pre-ABS, pre Traction Control model.
It also has desirable modifications, such as V7 Stone cast alloy wheels w/ tubeless tires, and a sump extender. ;-T
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Uh, both the V7 ones look the same to me.
the new one is more extended in height. Above, you can see the old one is as high than the solenoid. The new one is higher. Below, the new one goes much further down in respect than the starter engine.
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the value of my 13 V7 special just went up as folks will now want one of the older, simpler and therefore more reliable models
Sadly, that's not how it works.. ::)
Improvements of this scope for Moto Guzzi are not evolutionary, they are revolutionary! ;-T
I hope they step up and improve the suspension as well.
Can someone explain the "engine rotated forward" thing, I'm not getting it???
Paul
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the new one is more extended in height. Above, you can see the old one is as high than the solenoid. The new one is higher. Below, the new one goes much further down in respect than the starter engine.
I think that difference is due to the parallax error from different camera heights.
The old engine photo shot with camera at the same height and square to the engine.
The new bike photo took from a higher camera position, about the same height as the Aquila on the fuel tank. You can see the top side of the swing arm all the way to the right from this angle.
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I think that difference is due to the parallax error from different camera heights.
From the same angle, the gearbox still seems higher.
(http://www.motociclismo.it/cache/gallery/1/1/5/65/02_MotoGuzzi_V7II_Stone.jpg_2000.jpg)
(http://www.motoguzzi.it/mediaObject/images/Colors/V7/04-V7-Stone/original/04-V7-Stone.jpg)
(http://www.motoguzzi.it/mediaObject/motoguzzi-restyling/images-models/v7-2014-stone/003-V7-Stone/original/003%20V7%20Stone.jpg)
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Can someone explain the "engine rotated forward" thing, I'm not getting it???
Paul
Take a look at the photos above ;D
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From the same angle, the gearbox still seems higher.
Thanks for posting the comparison photos, the new gearbox sure looks beefier comparing to the old one ;-T
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All the electrical gim crackery is just something to go wrong that I can't fix. <snapping suspenders> And.. unless you have a very good Guzzi dealer, he won't be able to fix it either. The only problems I had with the Norge were the stupid ABS brakes and computerized dash. No thanks. <tamping corncob pipe>
Though the Breva/Norge/Griso dashes have me spooked too, it's not like you DON'T have the electrical gim crackery on ANYTHING built today just in the form of the EFI system soooooooooooo... <shrugs>.
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I see how they leveled out the engine when you look at the sump alignment to the lower frame rails.
So my wondering is how they received the roughly 1 inch height drop. Probably now that the sump is leveled out and further from the ground they lowered the frame via suspension tweaks?
Regardless, I'm very much in agreement that these changes are on the edge of revolutionary for Guzzi standards. Much like the Carc bikes after the spine frames.
My hope would be along the lines of what Pete said, a mini Stelvio and other models arising using the new transmission and engine designs.
I'd also imagine they would have greatly improved the strength of the transmission... so a new more powerful SB engine top end would probably work great as well.
Love me some Guzzi news.
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From the same angle, the gearbox still seems higher.
(http://www.motociclismo.it/cache/gallery/1/1/5/65/02_MotoGuzzi_V7II_Stone.jpg_2000.jpg)
(http://www.motoguzzi.it/mediaObject/images/Colors/V7/04-V7-Stone/original/04-V7-Stone.jpg)
(http://www.motoguzzi.it/mediaObject/motoguzzi-restyling/images-models/v7-2014-stone/003-V7-Stone/original/003%20V7%20Stone.jpg)
Assuming the angles of the photos are about the same, the rotation of the engine jumps out at me.
And what never looked odd to me before on the old one, does somewhat now.
Not that I love mine any less.
Think I'll go ride it!
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So I love the V7s, okay? Have almost purchased one on many occasions. It's a great ride and I personally don't necessarily feel like it needs more power :beat_horse and such. But. I just dunno what to think about this. Solve or amend the idle issue, yes please. But traction control and abs in THIS bike is needed or desired? In a market segment where 2 of the biggest complaints/gripes, valid or not, seem to be "down on power" and price versus the Bonnie? I mean, I assume these new gadgets are gonna drive the price up, right? Help me out here, I think it's just my own personal preferences talking maybe.
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Assuming the angles of the photos are about the same, the rotation of the engine jumps out at me.
Those pics definitely make it very obvious. If you look at any BMW Airhead, the engine and transmission are at about the same angle.
I assume this is to align the drive shaft with the the output shaft of the transmission.
So, this begs a few questions. Does M.G. use a CV (constant velocity) joint or U-joint where the drive shaft connects to the transmission. Operating a U-joint at an angle introduces a torsional vibration in the driveshaft. If there are two U-joints, at equal and opposite angles, i.e., the final shaft is at the same angle as the input shaft, then this cancels out in the two U-joints. A CARC or Paralever system would be able to deal with this.
Do we have any pictures that show the (new) rear drive in detail?
I'm going to assume that they're not going to put CARC on it for cost reasons.
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So I love the V7s, okay? Have almost purchased one on many occasions. It's a great ride and I personally don't necessarily feel like it needs more power :beat_horse and such. But. I just dunno what to think about this. Solve or amend the idle issue, yes please. But traction control and abs in THIS bike is needed or desired? In a market segment where 2 of the biggest complaints/gripes, valid or not, seem to be "down on power" and price versus the Bonnie? I mean, I assume these new gadgets are gonna drive the price up, right? Help me out here, I think it's just my own personal preferences talking maybe.
Dude, even the Sportster offers ABS now.
ABS was obviously added because it is soon REQUIRED... and the TC could just go along with the tech. As long as you already have something to monitor wheel speed/slippage, you can easily add that too. Especially if you have a RBW or modified RBW system.
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Those comparison photos really show the change. I wonder if handling is improved at all? I think its kindof funny to have traction control on a 50hp bike, but I guess its what folks expect in a modern bike. I won't be trading in my '13 for a '15.
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Appears the lower frame rails are different. Not sure if CV joints can operate at the speeds needed for the driveshaft.
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Lowered swingarm pivot position?
Compare with the front axle position....
More space visible between swingarm and the side panel frame too.
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Semi-kinda-sorta-maybe drive-ride by wire, control this and anti that...
Guess that locks up the period of nuevo V-7s in my future:
Single throttle, tanks sorted, no skill crutches installed.
Not for me, I and those like me fear that which is new and unusual. It's all a conspiracy so that the TSA, DHS or FEMA can control my movements.
I'd like to get more into it but I have a dermatologist appointment to address the irritations from the ti-foil between my scalp and helmet liners.
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Lowered swingarm pivot position?
Infact. That's possible cause the junction between the gearbox and the driveshaft is lowered in the new gearbox.
You can see that, in the old V7, the swingarm pivot is above the junction line of the two half-blocks of the engine (that you can see under the cylinder), in the new one is below that line.
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Dude, even the Sportster offers ABS now.
ABS was obviously added because it is soon REQUIRED... and the TC could just go along with the tech. As long as you already have something to monitor wheel speed/slippage, you can easily add that too. Especially if you have a RBW or modified RBW system.
Well again, thanks for pointing that out. True, I suppose. And, I guess at least some of the folks are new riders or somewhat new and probably could use the abs as much or more than experienced riders on super fast machines. Again, as I said, I guess I was thinking more of my own personal preferences.
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Semi-kinda-sorta-maybe drive-ride by wire, control this and anti that...
Guess that locks up the period of nuevo V-7s in my future:
Single throttle, tanks sorted, no skill crutches installed.
Based on recent history, I'm going to guess that the U.S.-bound 2015 bikes are the same as the 2014 bikes and that we get the V7 II for the 2016 model year.
ABS is being added due to an E.U. requirement. The U.S. doesn't require it yet.
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I'm interested in what the weight will be. The ABS/TC will probably add very little weight, but the beefier wet alternator and especially the 6 speed tranny could add significantly.
Looking at the side view comparison, the V7 II engine looks level while the engine of the '13-'14 V7 Stone looks like it's pointing slightly upward toward the front. I somehow never noticed that on mine.
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Semi-kinda-sorta-maybe drive-ride by wire, control this and anti that...
Guess that locks up the period of nuevo V-7s in my future:
Single throttle, tanks sorted, no skill crutches installed.
Not for me, I and those like me fear that which is new and unusual. It's all a conspiracy so that the TSA, DHS or FEMA can control my movements.
I'd like to get more into it but I have a dermatologist appointment to address the irritations from the ti-foil between my scalp and helmet liners.
You can thank the EU for mandatory ABS.
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:winer
Take a look at the photos above ;D
Ahhhh, now it get it, and I like what I see.
Paul
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I'm interested in what the weight will be. The ABS/TC will probably add very little weight, but the beefier wet alternator and especially the 6 speed tranny could add significantly.
The lack of passenger grab rails lighten it a bit. ;)
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With the heads pointed away from the riders knees you have more room for the heads to get bigger right?
Next step. BIGGER HEADS! ;-T
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Next step. BIGGER HEADS! ;-T
The current heads are huge on the outside. I'd be happy with the heads and cylinders being bigger on the inside !!!
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Trade the Heron heads for a Tardus Topper?
Doctor Who would approve! ;-T
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http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/09/26/sneak-preview-2016-moto-guzzi-v7-ii-intermot-2014-first-look/ (http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/09/26/sneak-preview-2016-moto-guzzi-v7-ii-intermot-2014-first-look/)
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http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/09/26/sneak-preview-2016-moto-guzzi-v7-ii-intermot-2014-first-look/ (http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/09/26/sneak-preview-2016-moto-guzzi-v7-ii-intermot-2014-first-look/)
Ohhh, lowered FOOTPEGS for more legroom.
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Ohhh, lowered FOOTPEGS for more legroom.
Not necessarily. The seat is also 1 inch lower, so the net distance from butt to feet is unchanged. The only increase in legroom is in the area of the knees, due to the forward rotated engine position.
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Not necessarily. The seat is also 1 inch lower, so the net distance from butt to feet is unchanged. The only increase in legroom is in the area of the knees, due to the forward rotated engine position.
Are you sure?
I don't speak Italian, but I also don't trust google to translate a foreign language without mistakes.
Conversely Cycle World was pretty clear about lowered pegs for more room, and I suspect that's based on am English language press release from Piaggio NA, and I hope they would get it right.
Also, even if there is a lower seat height, that doesn't mean it was achieved with a thinner seat, it could be from lower shocks.
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Are you sure?
I don't speak Italian, but I also don't trust google to translate a foreign language without mistakes.
Conversely Cycle World was pretty clear about lowered pegs for more room, and I suspect that's based on am English language press release from Piaggio NA, and I hope they would get it right.
Also, even if there is a lower seat height, that doesn't mean it was achieved with a thinner steady, it could be from lower shocks.
I agree. For that matter, the lower pegs could also be due to lower shocks. There are now about a dozen English-language reports about the new bikes on the web, from various secondary sources. They all describe the lowered pegs and/or seat differently. At this point, we're all just guessing. Even so, I want one.
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You can see how much lower the lower frame rail is by comparing the position of the oil dipstick in relation to the rail on the different bikes.
The same footpeg parts but mounted to a lower frame rail for the increased legroom.
Luckily the V7 series has lots of ground clearance to spare! Wouldn't want to drag those sump extenders!
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Info courtesy of MG_750 on Yahoo Groups
Guzzi put out a press release for the 2015 V7, which they are calling the V7 II. It's got;
- six speed transmission
- ABS braking
- traction control
- engine is tilted 4 deg forward, and lowered 1 cm, giving a lower seat and more leg room
(http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/gallery/2015-moto-guzzi-v7-ii-arrives-presently_1.jpg)
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/2015-moto-guzzi-v7-ii-arrives-presently-87060.html#
Press Release is here: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&ved=0CEoQFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.piaggiogroup.com%2Fsites%2Fall%2Ffiles%2Fpiaggiogroup%2Fnews%2Fpr_news_moto_guzzi_and_aprilia_at_intermot_2014_eng.pdf&ei=PtMmVPC
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Now if they take that motive package, couple it with a reactive rear end and put it in a mini Stelvio I'll be all over it like a rash!!! 8)
Pete
:+1
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I agree. For that matter, the lower pegs could also be due to lower shocks.
Well, CW quite specifically said they were lowered for room, but if, as you say, there are conflicting reports, who knows.
Still, it wouldn't make sense to even mention lowered pegs if it wasn't for a change in their relationship with the seat.
If it's because of lowered shocks that would be like saying "lower headlight" or "lower battery" for the same reason. :D
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Please Guzzi, no more band-aids; lets do something for real! Who really needs this stuff?? 4mm here, 1mm there... REALLY? A 5 speed tranny is fine for these bikes. Is it necessary to cruise at 80 mph on a bike this size in 6th gear? It will post higher speeds now but going the ton on these is not for the weak of heart. ABS= OK fine. TC= silly for 40hp output. More to go wrong. Guzzi/electrical= bad combination. <sigh>
-KEvin
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Well, CW quite specifically said they were lowered for room, but if, as you say, there are conflicting reports, who knows.
Still, it wouldn't make sense to even mention lowered pegs if it wasn't for a change in their relationship with the seat.
If it's because of lowered shocks that would be like saying "lower headlight" or "lower battery" for the same reason. :D
I think we won't have to wait long to learn more. The show itself opens on Tuesday, Sept. 30. Also, with Moto Guzzi's announced plan to have these on salesroom floors in November, there ought to be specs and tech info available by then.
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Have to agree with most of what Kev says here. A little too much of the black thing for my tastes, I'm sure there will be other options. Hope the ABS and TC don't push the price up too much. Low price is what attracted a lot of people to the bike in the first place and MG certainly needs to keep an entry level model in the lineup.
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To compete in the global marketplace they need to their products current and competitive. EU requires ABS on all bikes over 125cc sold after Jan. 1, 2016. I say good on Guzzi for going further with these upgrades that will make them more completive in the global marketplace.
You may have noticed price increases on the V7 over the past 2 years, I'm thinking this was done to ease the transition to the V7 II.
After a very bitter experience with my former 1200 Sport I to am concerned about adding any additional electronics to a Guzzi. ::)
Bottom lime, I applaud their effort to keep their product line relevant and competitive. ;-T ;-T
Paul
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Moto Guzzi, how about a new set of heads to get the performance up to around 1980's standards?
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Now, THATs interesting!
A 6-speed gearbox and ABS is precisely what Im missing on the Breva. A lower seat not, though.
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I think we won't have to wait long to learn more. The show itself opens on Tuesday, Sept. 30. Also, with Moto Guzzi's announced plan to have these on salesroom floors in November, there ought to be specs and tech info available by then.
I see what you're talking about though here:
http://m.autoevolution.com/2015-moto-guzzi-v7-ii-arrives-presently-87060.html#
This one just says bike is overall lower.
Wonder if CW just made a bad assumption.
???
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I don't see any negatives in this, but I'm an optimist anyway.
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I really don't see the need for a 6 speed tranny. Maybe I am missing something. Otherwise the upgrades make sense.
If they would have released a 900 cc version with maybe 65 horsepower, and same weight, I would be all over upgrading.
For now my V7R is just fine, and at 10K miles singing along although its time for a tune up maintenance.
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Nice upgrades.
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I really don't see the need for a 6 speed tranny. Maybe I am missing something. Otherwise the upgrades make sense.
If they would have released a 900 cc version with maybe 65 horsepower, and same weight, I would be all over upgrading.
For now my V7R is just fine, and at 10K miles singing along although its time for a tune up maintenance.
You can keep your V7R, just go here:
http://www.guzzipower.com/store/V7bigbore.html
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Paul at Corsa Italiana told me that they are expecting them at the end of November or December. No price yet.
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I really don't see the need for a 6 speed tranny. Maybe I am missing something. Otherwise the upgrades make sense.
I've looked for a sixth gear many times, and I'm sure the motor makes enough power to drop revs a couple hundred rpm on the highway.
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It will post higher speeds now but going the ton on these is not for the weak of heart.
I've had my V7R over the ton several and never noticed anything untoward about it. Works fine!
Bare
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They've lengthened the lower frame rail / cradle of the frame to move/rotate the engine.
I think the lower pegs are a byproduct of the engine / transmission move, since the pegs bolt to the lower frame rail.
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Aprilia's English version press release mentions increased knee and leg room from both the engine rotation and the 25mm lower foot pegs, but says nothing about a lower saddle.
The aesthetics have also evolved: on the new V7 II the engine has been tilted 4° toward the front axle and lowered 10 mm. This solution not only significantly improves the aesthetics from a side view, which on previous models seemed to have a "nose-up" look of the 90° V, but it also created more knee room. In fact, the new V7 II, which also has new 25 mm lower footpegs, provides a comfortable position even for above average height riders, while remaining accessible and "user friendly" for riders – men and women – of any size.
But, I agree that we will not really know for sure until the solid show reports arrive.
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I wait with baited breath ... ;)
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This article says; "Seat lowered, Engine lowered 10mm, Footpegs lowered 25mm".
http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-new-bikes/revealed-new-moto-guzzi-v7-with-traction-control-and-abs/25596.html
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I've had my V7R over the ton several and never noticed anything untoward about it. Works fine!
Bare
90 feels plenty fast on these little guys. Upgrades are upgrades, but the REAL upgrade would be the heads. You can only change clothes so many times before people realize that the essence of what's under them is exactly the same thing they had in the little Breva/Nevada back in the early 2000's. Those couple bits get expensive after awhile. I sold my Breva back in '06 after buying new in '04. Why in heavens name would I buy any newer small block since that time because it simply looks different. They certainly don't run better since mine ran great cold. There's been a 1hp upgrade. Woohoo!! Single throttle/double throttle who cares? I never had to mess with those. It's all seemed pretty pointless to me because the ONLY reason I sold it was because it was a bit mundane for me. Great bike don't get me wrong! I'm not the only one that feels this way however. Change mundane to exhilarating and you have a real upgrade. I have the SB bike I want now so I don't really care what they keep toiling with to make it appear they are upgrading. It just rattles my chain when I see these silly bits thrown on it. If I want to look at it glass half full I guess I'd say they are preparing for a newer engine they have in mind that needs a slight bit more room for the rider mated with a new trans. and they are making those changes earlier rather than later. One can only hope!
Kevin
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Kev M, "baited breath"? Been eating anchovies have we?
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You are repeating what I have read here more times than I want to recall. But think of it from Guzzi's perspective. The v7 line is there largest volume seller, and they certainly have a plane to keep it that way. They came out with the bike around 09, I recall, and it immediately started to sell well. Then they changed to a steel tank, then a major engine make over, that as I understand it did not increase max power much, but did give it a noticeably wider power band, now they have tweaked the ergonomics and given it an all new 6 speed gear box. Why would the bike need a new transmission? Maybe it was just time, as the old box certainly is a bit agricultural, or maybe it's because a new heads are coming! If they brought out the v7 with 4v heads 4 years ago, they would have sold a good many and then what? We would be sitting around saying, what the hell, they have had this 4v head motor out for years now and it's not making any more power than it did when it first arrived, what a POS.
I would be willing to be the farm, a more powerful motor is being worked up, and will makes it's debut within two years.
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You are repeating what I have read here more times than I want to recall. But think of it from Guzzi's perspective. The v7 line is there largest volume seller, and they certainly have a plane to keep it that way. They came out with the bike around 09, I recall, and it immediately started to sell well. Then they changed to a steel tank, then a major engine make over, that as I understand it did not increase max power much, but did give it a noticeably wider power band, now they have tweaked the ergonomics and given it an all new 6 speed gear box. Why would the bike need a new transmission? Maybe it was just time, as the old box certainly is a bit agricultural, or maybe it's because a new heads are coming! If they brought out the v7 with 4v heads 4 years ago, they would have sold a good many and then what? We would be sitting around saying, what the hell, they have had this 4v head motor out for years now and it's not making any more power than it did when it first arrived, what a POS.
I would be willing to be the farm, a more powerful motor is being worked up, and will makes it's debut within two years.
I happen to be saying an engine upgrade once every 30 yrs. is what I'm talking about.
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If the new tranny keeps the overall (final) drive ratio the same, then 6 speeds only mean more shifting. Less performance & more work for the rider.
Hopefully Guzzi will make the new 6th a little bit taller overall than the old 5th.
Anyone know what the overall drive ratio is on the 5 speed V7 line?
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As I've said elsewhere I'm betting that the gearbox internals, give or take the primary ratios, will be very similar I'f not identical to the six speed used on the CARC bikes and the Cali 14. That will mean deleting a whole major component and amortising the cost of development and building a separate component which in turn will equal savings which can be passed on to the customer or used for further product development.
I just don't get it? I really don't. It doesn't matter what Guzzi/Piaggio do it'll never be right or good to some people. I reckon all you moaners are bonkers.
Pete
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As I've said elsewhere I'm betting that the gearbox internals, give or take the primary ratios, will be very similar I'f not identical to the six speed used on the CARC bikes and the Cali 14. That will mean deleting a whole major component and amortising the cost of development and building a separate component which in turn will equal savings which can be passed on to the customer or used for further product development.
I just don't get it? I really don't. It doesn't matter what Guzzi/Piaggio do it'll never be right or good to some people. I reckon all you moaners are bonkers.
Pete
+1 Bazillion!
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This article says; "Seat lowered, Engine lowered 10mm, Footpegs lowered 25mm".
http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-new-bikes/revealed-new-moto-guzzi-v7-with-traction-control-and-abs/25596.html
Both then, eh?
Kev M, "baited breath"? Been eating anchovies have we?
It's all about the sushi!
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6 speeds only mean more shifting. Less performance & more work for the rider.
Less performance ?
6-speeds is the current standard in motorcycling. Every high-end sportsbike is running 6-speeds.
How do you think the extra gear will hurt performance?
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..........
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I just don't get it? I really don't. It doesn't matter what Guzzi/Piaggio do it'll never be right or good to some people. I reckon all you moaners are bonkers.
Pete
It's the interweb, and some have nothing to contribute but a bitch. Sad really.
Paul
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Less performance ?
6-speeds is the current standard in motorcycling. Every high-end sportsbike is running 6-speeds.
How do you think the extra gear will hurt performance?
What are most 40hp bikes running?
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What are most 40hp bikes running?
Well, for one, the 30bhp Ninja 250R is running 6-speeds.
I know, I know. A motorcycle doesn't need more than two or three, and four is more than plenty. :winer
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The hope is that they're "gearing up" for something bigger. A bit excessive for an entry level bike like this to me. I simply don't see a need. Put it on the "racer" only and tell folks to compare to other racers. More sales to the gullible. ;)
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Honda NC700 (manual and auto) and Kawasaki W800 both have six speeds.
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From the owners manual since I have one of each
'13 v7 gearing:
2.3636
1.6429
1.2778
1.5056
.9
rear 8/33=4.825
'12 Stelvio NTX
2.2353
1.7
1.3478
1.1154
.9677
.8621
rear 12/44=3.6667
So, the current 5 speed and the current 6 speed both end up with a slight overdrive at around .9 Each starts out with close to the same ratio. The V7 rear has a higher ratio in order to compensate for the much lower torque. Using the existing (just changing 1st) 6 speed we get more gear choices but not much else. Guzzi benefits by seeming competitive and now can use one transmission across all bikes, less the 1400.
Peter Y.
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Well, for one, the 30bhp Ninja 250R is running 6-speeds.
I know, I know. A motorcycle doesn't need more than two or three, and four is more than plenty. :winer
My first 6 speeds bike in 1989, a Kawasaki AR80.
I always lost count of the gear positions, basically moving off in first and up shift as fast as I can all the way to the top and cruise.
(http://img.webike.net/mm/newbike/339ar80ii_1984/ar80ii_1984.jpg)
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From the owners manual since I have one of each
'13 v7 gearing:
2.3636
1.6429
1.2778
1.5056
.9
rear 8/33=4.825
'12 Stelvio NTX
2.2353
1.7
1.3478
1.1154
.9677
.8621
rear 12/44=3.6667
So, the current 5 speed and the current 6 speed both end up with a slight overdrive at around .9 Each starts out with close to the same ratio. The V7 rear has a higher ratio in order to compensate for the much lower torque. Using the existing (just changing 1st) 6 speed we get more gear choices but not much else. Guzzi benefits by seeming competitive and now can use one transmission across all bikes, less the 1400.
Peter Y.
8/33 = 4.12
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I've looked for a sixth gear many times, and I'm sure the motor makes enough power to drop revs a couple hundred rpm on the highway.
:+1 I don't own a V7 but I've now ridden like 3 or 4 different ones, 2 of those including the "new" engine so to speak. I thought they were wonderful machines and damn near purchased one. In fact, the main reason I didn't was the feel of the engine at 75 or so, just slightly too busy for me for highway use. It's a personal preference of mine, not the bike's fault - it could run at that speed all day no problems. For me, a sixth gear would have leveled that feeling off a bit and much to my preference likely. The Tenni green Stone with maybe a brown leather seat and six gears, please.
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What are most 40hp bikes running?
It makes even more sence for low hp bikes in that you can always have the motor in the correct rev range to take FULL advantage of all 40 hp.
Lemme guess...you still drive an auto with a two speed gear box? I mean that three on the tree stuff is unproven and fandangled.
Buggy whips...
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Personally, I don't WANT a bike with a bigger engine. If I did, I would look for a bigger bike. I like the the V7 engines, especially the newer ones that are more reliable, have plenty of torque spread throughout the rpm range, and don't burn oil. What's not to like? The V7 II bikes seem to be a nice refinement of already very good bikes. Six speeds? Sure, will probably result in lower rpms at high speeds in top gear. ABS/TC? Why not, you never know when you might unexpectedly need it, and I'm sure it doesn't weigh much. More leg room? Great. But bigger isn't necessarily better when it comes to engines. Why carry around another 100 lbs of engine that you only take advantage of rarely, and burns more gas all the time? Sometimes I think that the folks who are always hungering after bigger equipment are trying to compensate for some personal deficiency in that department (no slurs intended).
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8/33 = 4.12
I'm just reading the manual, not saying the numbers are correct.
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Stop improving things! I like B&W TV just fine. No man needs more than a rotary dial fixed line telephone. 16" front wheels are all I need on my SB...
Thank goodness Guzzi are selling V7s by the truckload and aren't relying on curmudgeonly old whingers for their financial wellbeing!
The current package with possibly a factory 850 heron-head and adjustable forks would be my perfect bike. (But of course the whingers would complain it only had 65 hp!)
I am sure Guzzi will continue refining and improving the V7 for a long time to come. They haven't put a foot wrong yet with any of the evolution of the V7 range. Forza Guzzi!
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What are most 40hp bikes running?
My 30 HP 1989 Honda VTR250 had six.
Vintage bikes:
1975-1977 CB400F, about 30 RWHP, six speeds
1974-1976 CB360T, about 27 RWHP, six speeds
1973-1975 RD350, about 33 RWHP, six speeds
1976-198? RD400, about 37 RWHP, six speeds
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:+1 I don't own a V7 but I've now ridden like 3 or 4 different ones, 2 of those including the "new" engine so to speak. I thought they were wonderful machines and damn near purchased one. In fact, the main reason I didn't was the feel of the engine at 75 or so, just slightly too busy for me for highway use. It's a personal preference of mine, not the bike's fault - it could run at that speed all day no problems. For me, a sixth gear would have leveled that feeling off a bit and much to my preference likely. The Tenni green Stone with maybe a brown leather seat and six gears, please.
The V7 engine is happiest above 4,000 RPM. A sixths gear, with the current gear spacing would require 80 MPH before it would be happy. For me, at least, that isn't the mission of the V7.
That said, one of the articles mentions closer gearing. I'm guessing low and high gear are the same, just closer gear spacing. Will it mean anything to the performance of the bike? Maybe, maybe not. Less chance of going a speed that is too fast for one gear and too slow for the next one.
Do I think that either of my V7's needed another gear? No.
Would I be happy with the new model with 6 speeds, ABS, and traction control? Absolutely! Will I trade up my 2013 V7R for one? Probably not. I felt that the refinements that came with the 2013 model (2012 for the rest of the world) were worth trading up from my 2009 V7C. I'll be holding onto my 2013 V7R for a while though.
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What are the chances of breaking the rear tire loose under acceleration on a small block Guzzi? :-\
The Stewart Ave level crossing in Newcastle in the rain. All too easily.
Really though, I like idea of the 6 speed gearbox, if the lubrication now works properly and they've fixed the tendency to make that horrible noise ;D.
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The V7 engine is happiest above 4,000 RPM. A sixths gear, with the current gear spacing would require 80 MPH before it would be happy. For me, at least, that isn't the mission of the V7.
Although the 1tb V7 motor is indeed happy around 4k, I'm not sure I agree it's "happiest".
As I've said, I've looked for a 6th gear instinctively many a time. I would think that high 3k rpm at 70 would be just fine.
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Although the 1tb V7 motor is indeed happy around 4k, I'm not sure I agree it's "happiest".
As I've said, I've looked for a 6th gear instinctively many a time. I would think that high 3k rpm at 70 would be just fine.
As often happens, I agree with Kev M.
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If you're happy with only a 5 speed, don't bother shifting into 6th, simple really! :beat_horse
Paul
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Doing a bit of scale measuring from the side view photo, I reckon the seat height could be 31 1/4 inches. Does that sound feasible?
Phil
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Enough Kool-Aid being tossed around to satisfy an army. Anyhow... I'd love to see you guys still buy this iteration of the V7 II when the eventual new heads are added to a new engine some day. Lets say they keep the V7 II and add a 60 HP SB bike with head design similar to the BB that weighs just a hint more than the V7 II and looks the same and also added a second disc brake up front. I'm curious if you'd stand proudly by your V7 II or jump ship for this?
-Kevin
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Enough Kool-Aid being tossed around to satisfy an army. Anyhow... I'd love to see you guys still buy this iteration of the V7 II when the eventual new heads are added to a new engine some day. Lets say they keep the V7 II and add a 60 HP SB bike with head design similar to the BB that weighs just a hint more than the V7 II and looks the same and also added a second disc brake up front. I'm curious if you'd stand proudly by your V7 II or jump ship for this?
-Kevin
I'd jump head first in the deep end for a 60 or 70 bhp 8v small block V7 Classic.
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I'd jump head first in the deep end for a 60 or 70 bhp 8v small block V7 Classic.
As long as they get the metallurgy right this time... :BEER:
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I have to say that with these new additions, I will no doubt be doing another test ride. I've wanted one of the "new" V7's for awhile. This may force me to pull the trigger..........fi nally! Which would make some of my close MG friends very happy! The Kid
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Enough Kool-Aid being tossed around to satisfy an army. Anyhow... I'd love to see you guys still buy this iteration of the V7 II when the eventual new heads are added to a new engine some day. Lets say they keep the V7 II and add a 60 HP SB bike with head design similar to the BB that weighs just a hint more than the V7 II and looks the same and also added a second disc brake up front. I'm curious if you'd stand proudly by your V7 II or jump ship for this?
-Kevin
OMFG that's like claiming a hamburger sucks because sometimes I like a good filet.
Look, I could see where a 60 hp/dual disc, and while we're at it USD fork V7 III would be awesome.
I'd probably buy one (wait, more than probably).
BUT, I'd probably keep my Stone too.
Kinda like how I'm toying with selling the Buell...it's got better brakes, better suspension, more than double the power of the Stone, and let's be honest, for anything I might do it handles at least as well, just doesn't FEEL as nimble.
But sometimes more is just more, and I ride the Stone instead...ok more than sometimes, just plain often.
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OMFG that's like claiming a hamburger sucks because sometimes I like a good filet.
Look, I could see where a 60 hp/dual disc, and while we're at it USD fork V7 III would be awesome.
I'd probably buy one (wait, more than probably).
BUT, I'd probably keep my Stone too.
Kinda like how I'm toying with selling the Buell...it's got better brakes, better suspension, more than double the power of the Stone, and let's be honest, for anything I might do it handles at least as well, just doesn't FEEL as nimble.
But sometimes more is just more, and I ride the Stone instead...ok more than sometimes, just plain often.
Yes... bring out the filet please! ;-T Just that a lot of people seem to be poo pooing (more band-aids please) the folks that want the upgrade that would really jump out and make a difference.
-Kevin
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Penderic slaps forehead. Thunk.
"I coulda had a V8!"
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/rollsv8_zps758bda88.jpg)
;) (cept the insurance rate$ here go by cc's not pounds)
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I can see the point of less is more... ;)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_jAb0kWJHxY
Edit: $1439 in 1968 would be $9892 today:
(http://galleryplus.ebayimg.com/ws/web/261589236105_1_0_1.jpg)
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The 4 biggest gripes I've never heard about the small blocks:
1. It needs traction control
2. It needs ABS
3. It needs a 6 speed gearbox
4. It needs to have it's jugs 4mm forward and 1mm down
-Kevin
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The 4 biggest gripes I've never heard about the small blocks:
1. It needs traction control
2. It needs ABS
3. It needs a 6 speed gearbox
4. It needs to have it's jugs 4mm forward and 1mm down
-Kevin
And the biggest complaint, power, goes unanswered...
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Sure wish the Stone I rode didn't surge like a pig with a bladder infection so I could decide if I liked it.
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And the biggest complaint, power, goes unanswered...
Four ways to make something seem more powerful than it is:
- Give it traction control
- Give it a 6-speed gearbox
- Make it seem like the jugs are just too big and in the way.
- Give it the name "Racer"
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How to salve the pangs of spending way too much on modding an old SB.
Whine about the new ones!!!
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How to salve the pangs of spending way too much on modding an old SB.
Whine about the new ones!!!
;D :BEER:
Eckzackerly! As far as I'm concerned they are *Almost* there! All they need is decent suspension and a rising rate rear end with a reactive drive coupled with a slightly changed frame and I'd probably be looking at my last motorcycle purchase. I won't need the performance of a 'Nuovo LeMans' and its riding position would undoubtably cripple me! My Griso has more than ample performance for me and I love it but I won't be able to ride it forever. Eventually I'll need something smaller and lighter and while my Mane is both its still tall and heavy not good for a 'Little Old Person'! :D There would also be a somewhat delicious irony to ending my involvement with Guzzi after forty plus years, (Which it will be by the time I get to that stage!) by returning to what is essentially the same basic machine as my first model from the marque I purchased for three hundred quid back in London in 1980!
Pete
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How to salve the pangs of spending way too much on modding an old SB.
Whine about the new ones!!!
Nope, just know more now and wish the same for others who have mentioned it. Not knocking the current bikes, it just annoys the hell out of me that Guzzi keeps making these updates that aren't really what folks are asking for. They did the single throttle body vs. the dual TB and these iteration of bikes seem to stumble more when cold than my older B750's. I don't get the big "upgrade" with this?? They've upgraded the price right with it a good bit! The V7 line is appealing visually no doubt so they did well there. They had a chance to completely steal the show with the racer and introduce an upgraded engine and didn't. That would have been icing on the cake, but no...
The only bike I'd consider buying new from Guzzi is an updated sb motor because I know how wonderful they can be in this frame. I prefer smaller bikes. I was hoping this next iteration would go in that direction but sadly I'm wrong. I sure have heard a lot of rumblings about folks wanting a little more output through the years, but maybe all that's gone now. We all get to dream differently.
Kevin
Ps. It's actually easier to justify throwing money at upgrades you want when you see every upgrade you never wanted in the next lineup.
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Nope, just know more now and wish the same for others who have mentioned it. Not knocking the current bikes, it just annoys the hell out of me that Guzzi keeps making these updates that aren't really what folks are asking for. They did the single throttle body vs. the dual TB and these iteration of bikes seem to stumble more when cold than my older B750's. I don't get the big "upgrade" with this?? They've upgraded the price right with it a good bit! The V7 line is appealing visually no doubt so they did well there. They had a chance to completely steal the show with the racer and introduce an upgraded engine and didn't. That would have been icing on the cake, but no...
The only bike I'd consider buying new from Guzzi is an updated sb motor because I know how wonderful they can be in this frame. I prefer smaller bikes. I was hoping this next iteration would go in that direction but sadly I'm wrong. I sure have heard a lot of rumblings about folks wanting a little more output through the years, but maybe all that's gone now. We all get to dream differently.
Kevin
They have updated the motor with the single TB model. I also don't understand what you are griping about. ???
The single TB model is a vast improvement. It is the first EFI small block that could come close to my V65 engined Monza. In fact on a comparison run it bettered my fuel consumption by almost 10%. :o I'm not an EFI guy but I'll tip my hat when it is due. :BEER: I can tune carbys so mine was running fine. :P
Given the better fuel consumption and the 22 litre steel fuel tank I see the Stone as a real winner. I won't buy one as my Monza fills that role but I can at least acknowledge the improvements. The V65 revs better too due to 10mm shorter stroke. 6 speed gearbox? Logically that will depend on the ratios but as a marketing tool it is a definite positive. ABS? Its the way of the world. All bikes are slowly going that way as are most activities. Technology used to replace skill or lack of it.
I find it amusing that the SB engine cops so much flak. Sure it is a heron head but so was the VW beetle and look how long that survived. Cheaper to produce, cheaper to sell and it is very fuel tolerant. Mine will happily consume any (petrol/gas) fuel that can be legally sold out of a bowser. Great if you like going to remote places.
I thought about a smaller lighter bike about 10 years ago for the same reasons Pete described. I was fortunate to get my Monza and a SessantacinqueGT for a good price and I've had them ever since along side my LM 3. It hasn't been until the Stone came out that Guzzi had a bike with the same range as the LM 3 (500km). Once again, I tip my hat. This EFI stuff is finally starting to get in the groove.
Rod in Oz.
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"The single TB model is a vast improvement. It is the first EFI small block that could come close to my V65 engined Monza."
"6 speed gearbox? Logically that will depend on the ratios but as a marketing tool it is a definite positive."
Too bad they don't have a tongue in cheek emoticon. :P
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Not knocking the current bikes, it just annoys the hell out of me that Guzzi keeps making these updates that aren't really what folks are asking for.
Well, I, for one, am asking for exactly what the V7 II offers over its predecessor. I have a '13 V7 Stone that I'm very happy with, but I see the II as enough of an improvement that I'm putting in an order for one as soon as my dealer says I can.
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They have updated the motor with the single TB model. I also don't understand what you are griping about. ???
The single TB model is a vast improvement. It is the first EFI small block that could come close to my V65 engined Monza. In fact on a comparison run it bettered my fuel consumption by almost 10%. :o I'm not an EFI guy but I'll tip my hat when it is due. :BEER: I can tune carbys so mine was running fine. :P
Given the better fuel consumption and the 22 litre steel fuel tank I see the Stone as a real winner. I won't buy one as my Monza fills that role but I can at least acknowledge the improvements. The V65 revs better too due to 10mm shorter stroke. 6 speed gearbox? Logically that will depend on the ratios but as a marketing tool it is a definite positive. ABS? Its the way of the world. All bikes are slowly going that way as are most activities. Technology used to replace skill or lack of it.
I find it amusing that the SB engine cops so much flak. Sure it is a heron head but so was the VW beetle and look how long that survived. Cheaper to produce, cheaper to sell and it is very fuel tolerant. Mine will happily consume any (petrol/gas) fuel that can be legally sold out of a bowser. Great if you like going to remote places.
I thought about a smaller lighter bike about 10 years ago for the same reasons Pete described. I was fortunate to get my Monza and a SessantacinqueGT for a good price and I've had them ever since along side my LM 3. It hasn't been until the Stone came out that Guzzi had a bike with the same range as the LM 3 (500km). Once again, I tip my hat. This EFI stuff is finally starting to get in the groove.
Rod in Oz.
Nicely summed-up.
You've sold me on the "Heron".
Now, where's the turbo?
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I find it amusing that the SB engine cops so much flak. Sure it is a heron head but so was the VW beetle and look how long that survived.
Beetle head:
(http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v8/386186713/VW_Beetle_Cylinder_Heads.jpg)
Beetle piston:
(http://www2.cip1.com/v/vspfiles/photos/ACC-C10-5207-6.jpg)
Not Heron.
The VW "wasserboxer" engine as used in the T3/Vanagon was Heron head. Probably the worst engine VW ever designed.
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Enough Kool-Aid being tossed around to satisfy an army. Anyhow... I'd love to see you guys still buy this iteration of the V7 II when the eventual new heads are added to a new engine some day. Lets say they keep the V7 II and add a 60 HP SB bike with head design similar to the BB that weighs just a hint more than the V7 II and looks the same and also added a second disc brake up front. I'm curious if you'd stand proudly by your V7 II or jump ship for this?
-Kevin
Silly question, most folks will gladly "move up" when more HP comes on board, perhaps they need to compensate for the size of their pen.... oh never mind! :beat_horse
SO what are you waiting for.....? ::)
Paul
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With the single TB bikes with the MUIG controller or whatever its called the way it was explained to me is that although it looks like a conventional, cable controlled, butterfly in the throttle body it is in fact a sort of hybrid 'Semi-ride by wire' system.
Yes, when you twist the throttle it turns a cam on the side of the throttle body but the actual 'Physical' twist only opens the throttle plate a small amount, this is to allow the bike to still be able to limp home if something goes wrong with the controller. When everything is working correctly though once past this stage of very small opening the cam plate and shaft simply activate the demand sensor in the same way that is done on the full RBW machines although on those the demand sensor is located remote from the throttle bodies. From there using all the inputs available the ECU, (Also integral to the MUIG unit.) calculates the position needed for the throttle plate and it is moved there and an appropriate amount of fuel and spark advance is delivered.
Now I hasten to add that this is how it was explained to me very early in the piece by the tech boffin at the importer but that was very early days. This explanation was contradicted by Mike Haven who believed it was a 'Conventional' butterfly control. I have never had the opportunity to examine one closely, much less tear one to bits unfortunately!
As for the idle control? Well, the single TB bikes don't have a separate stepper motor, nor do they appear to have any reference made to an air-over-idle speed control. The way the engine behaves when started is also extremely similar to the Cali 14 which IS a full RBW system. Press the starter button and the engine will fire up and race for a second before it drops back to a slightly erratic idle that then should stabilise over a few seconds as the ECU adjusts the timing and mixture decay figures.
I'd love to be able to get to the bottom of this and find out definitively exactly how it works, problem is that quite simply the factory doesn't tell US grunt-level types very much and that makes it very frustrating. We are just told 'Plug in PADS and if it says something is FUBAR replace it.' GAKKK! Sorry, I can't work like that!
Pete
I may have been misunderstood at least a little here. When Pete and I discussed this throttle control, I felt and still do that its using the throttle blade as directed by the ecu to control the idle airflow. The twist grip is only a request for the ecu to move the blade, up to a point where it still move the blade a bit if the system fails. Its very common automotive tech from ten years ago. Pete , now I am confused as to what full RBW on a cal 14 is? Still uses cables as the throttle request input, not a bar mounted potentiometer. To me that would be RBW. Again, we both get left in the dark by tech services when we ask a stupid question like " how does that function?"
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The Cali system, from memory, uses a remote demand sensor and communicates to the EC via Canbus I believe. The 7SM controller essentially takes inputs from all the usual sensors and a pressure sensor in the plenum and juggles that info to make a decision on throttle butterfly position, fuel and spark. At least that's how I understand it.
As you say, I may well of misunderstood your explanation which is why I included it in the discussion but with the caveats I did. As you say, trying to get accurate info from 'official' sources can be frustratingly futile at times.
Pete
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Can't wait to see the full report on changes/new models.
You wouldn't kill me if I ended up selling the V11 (Lemon) LeMans to get a V7 II... would you Chuck? :D ;)
I wonder if they'll just slap the required ABS onto the Griso or if they'll replace/upgrade that model as well? All of the other BB Guzzis already have it.
Edit: I also like how they brought back the "II" as in Lemans II, Imola II, etc. etc.
When was the last time they used that scheme?
I also wonder about how Guzzi will handle the presumably forthcoming electronics on the griso - ABS and TC make more sense on a 550 pound 110 hp bike than on the v7, not that I think it's necessarily a bad idea on the v7 either. Looks like they intend on waiting until the absolute legal last minute to put abs (and tc?) on the griso.
Is Guzzi's traction control developed in-house or is it a fork of its corporate cousin aprilia's system? I know aprilia's is widely considered one of the most competent so it would make sense to share, no?
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On MotorradOnline, 28 pictures with all the available colors.
http://www.motorradonline.de/motorraeder/intermot-neuheit-moto-guzzi-v7-ii/604770?skip=1#1-602906
(http://www.motorradonline.de/sixcms/media.php/11/thumbnails/730_Moto_Guzzi_V7_II_2015.jpg.3624318.jpg)
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Nice range of colors.
The yellow is my favorite, but the red, gray, plus the blue and the red specials are all nice.
They NEED to go back to black on the Racer though!
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I'm getting pretty worn out on the black fenders. I'm sure it saves a few pennies to only have fenders in one color, but come on ?!?!?! The Specials should have color matched fenders...
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I'm getting pretty worn out on the black fenders. I'm sure it saves a few pennies to only have fenders in one color, but come on ?!?!?! The Specials should have color matched fenders...
Agreed!
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They could use some silver wheels for some of the models too. I like black wheels, but not on every single model.
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They could use some silver wheels for some of the models too. I like black wheels, but not on every single model.
Or, give the customer the option of selecting a wheel color (silver or black).
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They could use some silver wheels for some of the models too. I like black wheels, but not on every single model.
:+1
Something like this would be cool to me...
(http://kaneban.txt-nifty.com/photos/uncategorized/2013/11/07/cimg1530.jpg)
(http://kaneban.txt-nifty.com/photos/uncategorized/2013/11/08/cimg1522_2.jpg)
(http://kaneban.txt-nifty.com/photos/uncategorized/2013/11/08/cimg1540.jpg)
A custom from here -> http://kaneban.txt-nifty.com/blog/2013/11/moto-guzzi-v7-8.html (http://kaneban.txt-nifty.com/blog/2013/11/moto-guzzi-v7-8.html)
My early photoshop of a V7 LeMans type of bike...
(http://s13.postimg.org/m0be13isn/V7_Stone_Lemans.jpg) on this thread -> http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=55102.0 (http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=55102.0)
I am digging the V7 improvements though. More colors are always welcome.
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Ick, no silver wheels... noooooooooooooo. :o
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My dealer just told me that he checked with the US importer, who informed him that these will not be imported into the USA until the last quarter of 2015 and will be sold here as 2016 models. Tell me it isn't so!
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My dealer just told me that he checked with the US importer, who informed him that these will not be imported into the USA until the last quarter of 2015 and will be sold here as 2016 models. Tell me it isn't so!
That is how it always works for us in the US.
Maybe it is time for Guzzi to bring the US in line with the rest of the world. It is probably more of a hassle to have different models for different markets.
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My dealer just told me that he checked with the US importer, who informed him that these will not be imported into the USA until the last quarter of 2015 and will be sold here as 2016 models. Tell me it isn't so!
This is pretty much always the case in modern Guzzi history.
The rest of the world got the 1TB Stones/Special/Racers for 2012, while we waited for 2013.
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My biggest gripe as it stands is the lack of true differentiation between the Stone and the Special. I *thought* they would go that route with fenders/panels but it doesn't seem so. I also dislike the idea of having a satin red V7 next to a gloss red V7, but maybe that's just a dealer beef.
I also wish they'd have gone a newer direction with the Racer. Like Kev, a black tank, or even red(!!), would have helped give it nice refresh.
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My dealer just told me that he checked with the US importer, who informed him that these will not be imported into the USA until the last quarter of 2015 and will be sold here as 2016 models. Tell me it isn't so!
Yeah as others have mentioned, this is just the way it works with them. As a dealer, it drives me nuts during a refresh year. It certainly doesn't help them stay competitive in the US market.
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I've had enough of the matte finish, not only on the fenders but also on the tank. I wonder how the matte would look if sprayed over with a clear coat? What do you think.......
Paul
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I also wish they'd have gone a newer direction with the Racer. Like Kev, a black tank, or even red(!!), would have helped give it nice refresh.
They should offer custom options for customer-ordered bikes, were you can for, for example, any color fuel tank that is made for any of the V7 models which ever bike you order -- for example, the Red tank you get can get on a Special on a Racer. This could be an extra cost option that wouldn't really cost much to implement.
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They should offer custom options for customer-ordered bikes, were you can for, for example, any color fuel tank that is made for any of the V7 models which ever bike you order -- for example, the Red tank you get can get on a Special on a Racer. This could be an extra cost option that wouldn't really cost much to implement.
Yep. Notice that other companies like BMW and Ducati are going the "factory customization" route with this size bike.
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OK, I take back everything I said about the need for an updated engine. Guzzi has been brilliant! :BEER:
-Kevin
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"The gearbox has been revamped to accommodate the six speed that has the first and last-two ratios reduced, promoting less rpm drop between ratios. The primary drive ratio has also been changed, going from 16:21 to 18:23."
What does that mean to the average Joe on the street?
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I wonder if this will eat into the new V7 sales......
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp19/demar39/12-DUCATI-SCRAMBLER-590x441.jpg)
It hits the hp, torque, gearbox, abs, price point and weight marks. It's all there. The only thing it doesn't have is shaft drive. I'd like to get one.
http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/09/30/2015-ducati-scrambler-motorcycle-review-first-look-photos-specs-pricing-at-intermot-2014/
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I wonder if this will eat into the new V7 sales......
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp19/demar39/12-DUCATI-SCRAMBLER-590x441.jpg)
It hits the hp, torque and weight marks. The only thing it doesn't have is shaft drive.
http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/09/30/2015-ducati-scrambler-motorcycle-review-first-look-photos-specs-pricing-at-intermot-2014/
I would think YES it will.
scrambler web site: http://scramblerducati.com/en
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"The gearbox has been revamped to accommodate the six speed that has the first and last-two ratios reduced, promoting less rpm drop between ratios. The primary drive ratio has also been changed, going from 16:21 to 18:23."
What does that mean to the average Joe on the street?
The engine is re-tuned (vs. the Monster 796 it comes from) for lower end torque, and the ratios changed to make it friendly at low speeds -- both these things are to make it a friendly bike to ride at slower speeds on dirt and gravel roads. The Monster 796 has some tall stock gearing that would be completely unfriendly for dirt riding. Heck, it is annoying tall just for getting out of a parking lot. 6th gear (stock) isn't really useable until you're going 80 MPH. A common mod (which, I've done to mine) is to change the front sprocket from a 15T to a 14T (about 7% reduction in final drive ratio). This made it just about perfect.
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"The gearbox has been revamped to accommodate the six speed that has the first and last-two ratios reduced, promoting less rpm drop between ratios. The primary drive ratio has also been changed, going from 16:21 to 18:23."
What does that mean to the average Joe on the street?
1st; 5th, and 6th have been lowered. Along with the primary.
This will mean overall lower gearing for the rider, and should make lower speeds more comfortable. Not to mention acceleration nicer!
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1st; 5th, and 6th have been lowered. Along with the primary.
This will mean overall lower gearing for the rider, and should make lower speeds more comfortable. Not to mention acceleration nicer!
Bah. Why not just make it fully automatic? ~; ;D
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1st; 5th, and 6th have been lowered. Along with the primary.
This will mean overall lower gearing for the rider, and should make lower speeds more comfortable. Not to mention acceleration nicer!
I suspect the 5th will be close to 1:1 and 6th will be something like 1: 0.85 due to the primary going from 1.277 to 1.3125. That would be very close to what we now have in 5th with the 1.277 and a 5th gear ratio of 1: 0.9. This will be better off the line, maybe better at very low speed (like off road), and still enough torque in top gear to offset wind resistance all the way to redline. I like the idea of not having to slip the clutch so much when pulling away from a stop.
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Moto Guzzi! :bow
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Moto Guzzi! :bow
I hear ya. I wish the new V7 had these specs with it's shaft drive. Maybe in a year. I can wait a year, or two. If MG doesn't have something comparable by then at least the Ducati Scrambler will be well vetted and hopefully lots of aftermarket parts will be available. ;-T
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So, with the new gearing, the v7 should be faster off the line! That's great, a little extra zip, and still with those old lovely Heron heads!
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OK, I take back everything I said about the need for an updated engine. Guzzi has been brilliant! :BEER:
-Kevin
Kevin, look at the history. It has long been Guzzi practice, both before and after the Aprilia/Piaggio years, to modify and *Update* other componentry before the engine. If you look at the big blocks if you overlook the early Hi-Cam which was in itself an engineering cul de sac, the history of the big block line is one of constant updating of every component bar the motor! Gearbox, frame, suspension, final drive, all of those were changed while the wonderful old two valve pushrod motor soldiered on all but unchanged apart from increases in capacity and a gradually higher state of tune.
Even when the *New* CARC bikes were introduced in 2005 they slogged on with the venerable pushrod donk for another couple of years before it was finally pensioned off and a virtually clean sheet design was launched in the current 8V.
By adapting the current six speed box for use with the smallblock engine they get a cheap upgrade for their most popular model AND eradicate almost a complete major component from their manufacturing inventory. It shows, at least to me, a clever, forward thinking strategy that in the past has often been missing in management thinking. As for TC and ABS? TC is very easy given the sensors are already there for the ABS and the 'Semi RBW' system makes operating it and controlling it a cheap and easy thing, so why not?!
One thing I find funny is that when I go up to Sydney for training or talk to mechanics from other dealerships a lot of them, especially the younger ones, are dismissive of the smallblocks and I really can't see why? The after all are what are paying the 'Guzzi' part of their wages on the whole.
I'm not a 'smallblock' guy and will freely admit that I used to dislike them greatly because they never seemed to be anywhere near as reliable as their larger bretheren. That has now changed and the current crop strike me as well made and engineered and with the advent of the single TB models they are simplicity itself to service and maintain.
My guess is the motor will, as usual for Guzzi, be the last major component to be 'Upgraded' and to me that's just fine! If people want a 'More Powerful' machine? Buy one! The market is awash with them! The smallblocks have a charm of their own which obviously endears them to their fiercely loyal owners and attracts new buyers wanting to ride outside the mainstream. I can't see how Guzzi are puting a foot wrong with their development of thi machine???
Pete
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:+1
Something like this would be cool to me...
(http://kaneban.txt-nifty.com/photos/uncategorized/2013/11/07/cimg1530.jpg)
That's awesome. Really dig the silver finished mags as per Guzzis of old.
Visited this sweetheart (and a pile of her sisters) in a private collection here, 3 weeks ago.
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g280/tazturtle/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps8b983584.jpg) (http://s58.photobucket.com/user/tazturtle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps8b983584.jpg.html)
Kurt
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:+1
Something like this would be cool to me...
(http://kaneban.txt-nifty.com/photos/uncategorized/2013/11/07/cimg1530.jpg)
(http://kaneban.txt-nifty.com/photos/uncategorized/2013/11/08/cimg1522_2.jpg)
(http://kaneban.txt-nifty.com/photos/uncategorized/2013/11/08/cimg1540.jpg)
A custom from here -> http://kaneban.txt-nifty.com/blog/2013/11/moto-guzzi-v7-8.html (http://kaneban.txt-nifty.com/blog/2013/11/moto-guzzi-v7-8.html)
My early photoshop of a V7 LeMans type of bike...
(http://s13.postimg.org/m0be13isn/V7_Stone_Lemans.jpg) on this thread -> http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=55102.0 (http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=55102.0)
I am digging the V7 improvements though. More colors are always welcome.
:+1
:bike
-
Kevin, look at the history. It has long been Guzzi practice, both before and after the Aprilia/Piaggio years, to modify and *Update* other componentry before the engine. If you look at the big blocks if you overlook the early Hi-Cam which was in itself an engineering cul de sac, the history of the big block line is one of constant updating of every component bar the motor! Gearbox, frame, suspension, final drive, all of those were changed while the wonderful old two valve pushrod motor soldiered on all but unchanged apart from increases in capacity and a gradually higher state of tune.
Even when the *New* CARC bikes were introduced in 2005 they slogged on with the venerable pushrod donk for another couple of years before it was finally pensioned off and a virtually clean sheet design was launched in the current 8V.
By adapting the current six speed box for use with the smallblock engine they get a cheap upgrade for their most popular model AND eradicate almost a complete major component from their manufacturing inventory. It shows, at least to me, a clever, forward thinking strategy that in the past has often been missing in management thinking. As for TC and ABS? TC is very easy given the sensors are already there for the ABS and the 'Semi RBW' system makes operating it and controlling it a cheap and easy thing, so why not?!
One thing I find funny is that when I go up to Sydney for training or talk to mechanics from other dealerships a lot of them, especially the younger ones, are dismissive of the smallblocks and I really can't see why? The after all are what are paying the 'Guzzi' part of their wages on the whole.
I'm not a 'smallblock' guy and will freely admit that I used to dislike them greatly because they never seemed to be anywhere near as reliable as their larger bretheren. That has now changed and the current crop strike me as well made and engineered and with the advent of the single TB models they are simplicity itself to service and maintain.
My guess is the motor will, as usual for Guzzi, be the last major component to be 'Upgraded' and to me that's just fine! If people want a 'More Powerful' machine? Buy one! The market is awash with them! The smallblocks have a charm of their own which obviously endears them to their fiercely loyal owners and attracts new buyers wanting to ride outside the mainstream. I can't see how Guzzi are puting a foot wrong with their development of thi machine???
Pete
Well stated and good to know that these upgrades are for further forward development. If this is the case we have something looming in the distance that could be absolutely wonderful. For now they are still pleasing the crowd.
Thanks for the insight.
-Kevin
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I wonder if this will eat into the new V7 sales......
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp19/demar39/12-DUCATI-SCRAMBLER-590x441.jpg)
It hits the hp, torque, gearbox, abs, price point and weight marks. It's all there. The only thing it doesn't have is shaft drive. Oh yeah, then there are those pesky valve adjustments, and ohh, then there are the timing belts to replace biennially.
FIXORED...
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FIXORED...
OK, I'll wait for the new new V7II increased hp engine!
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FIXORED...
Don't forget that chain/sprocket stuff. My Multi and ST2 would eat a set at about 15K ($300), and the dry clutches were another $500 at about the same time. People don't factor this in when making the buying decision so Ducati has great sales numbers. Resale, that's another issue. Of course our Guzzi resale value is not so hot either but I suspect that's because the marque is so obscure. It does not take too long for the normal service bill on a Ducati to equal 25% of the value of the entire bike. Been there and done that.
Peter Y.
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Don't forget that chain/sprocket stuff. My Multi and ST2 would eat a set at about 15K ($300), and the dry clutches were another $500 at about the same time. People don't factor this in when making the buying decision so Ducati has great sales numbers. Resale, that's another issue. Of course our Guzzi resale value is not so hot either but I suspect that's because the marque is so obscure. It does not take too long for the normal service bill on a Ducati to equal 25% of the value of the entire bike. Been there and done that.
Peter Y.
So so true. Ease of maintenance and service bills are the two biggest checks on the plus side for Guzzi. To be honest, I rarely run into potential customers who are on the fence between Guzzi and Ducati, but that Scrambler could change that.
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I'm getting pretty worn out on the black fenders. I'm sure it saves a few pennies to only have fenders in one color, but come on ?!?!?! The Specials should have color matched fenders...
Either of those Specials would look pretty sick with the MAS aluminum fenders!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Nicely said Pete.
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Oh yeah, then there are those pesky valve adjustments, and ohh, then there are the timing belts to replace biennially.
Valve adjustments on a 2 valve is no big deal. Maybe an hour.. *if* you have access to the shims. The belt change on a Duck is a no brainer. That said, gimme a Guzzi.. ;D
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Valve adjustments on a 2 valve is no big deal. Maybe an hour.. *if* you have access to the shims. The belt change on a Duck is a no brainer. That said, gimme a Guzzi.. ;D
Both are significantly more involved than our Guzzis.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDz--z1IXkQ
Andrea Maria Benedetto (product development manager of Piaggo Group) tells about Moto Guzzi V7 II (in Italian)
Gearbox with an internal oil pump, gear oil change every 50.000 km. Seat lowered of 15mm, pegs lowered of 25mm (so 10mm respect to the seat). The rotation of the engine give 30mm more room for the knees.
DogW
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Andrea Maria Benedetto (product development manager of Piaggo Group) tells about Moto Guzzi V7 II (in Italian)
Gearbox with an internal oil pump, gear oil change every 50.000 km. Seat lowered of 15mm, pegs lowered of 25mm (so 10mm respect to the seat). The rotation of the engine give 30mm more room for the knees.
DogW
So the answer is BOTH...
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Probably a dumb question. Will changing the engine position allow for greater rear suspension travel? Ala Scrambler?
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Gearbox comparison. Above the old one, in the middle the new one, below that of the California 1400.
cal 14 photo is deceptive as they left off the starter
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Probably a dumb question. Will changing the engine position allow for greater rear suspension travel? Ala Scrambler?
I'm thinking the raising of the engine and gearing changes would make this a great scrambler.
-
Don't forget that chain/sprocket stuff. My Multi and ST2 would eat a set at about 15K ($300), and the dry clutches were another $500 at about the same time. People don't factor this in when making the buying decision so Ducati has great sales numbers. Resale, that's another issue. Of course our Guzzi resale value is not so hot either but I suspect that's because the marque is so obscure. It does not take too long for the normal service bill on a Ducati to equal 25% of the value of the entire bike. Been there and done that.
Peter Y.
And on the other side of the coin there's about +25hp, and in my area a far stronger dealer network..... that I know to be true! :(
As for resale, seems you can always sell a Ducati in my part of the world, but you can't give away a Guzzi.... that I know to be true! :(
I'm thinking the suspension and fuelling on the Duc. will be better then the V7...
jas67, what say you about fuelling and suspension on your Monster vs the V7??
Paul
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jas67, what say you about fuelling and suspension on your Monster vs the V7??
There's no comparison in the stock chassis of Jenn's 696 vs. my V7.
Her Duc has a better suspension front and back (USD, monoshock, compression and damping rear adjustment), and better brakes (dual brembos up front with ABS).
Her bike also makes more power - about 60 hp at the rear wheel vs. about 40 hp at the rear wheel on the V7.
Fueling is ALMOST flawless on the Duc, I saw ALMOST because we've occasionally had it flood and no-start. It's rare and I don't know why it happens but when it does the answer is to let it sit 10-20 minutes.
It does use a fast idle lever, which I've never investigated to see if it is mechanical or electrical, though the dealer suggested it was electrical.
That said, the fueling on my V7 has been excellent, with the exception of the cranky warm-up on cold starts, and possibly some low speed surging that has never bothered me (nor did I notice except by accident 7k miles into owning it).
That said, 9 out of 10 times, I still prefer to ride the V7.
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That said, 9 out of 10 times, I still prefer to ride the V7.
Inquiring minds -- and even duller ones such as mine :D -- wonder why, especially after that interesting Monster v. V7 compo.
Seriously, as a Guzzi Kool-Aid drunkard, I think I understand, but do wonder if there is actually something "real rather than romantic" that I might be missing.
Perhaps my involuntary benching has me thinking thoughts I shouldn't, but, always intrigued, I am becoming sorely tempted by the latest 7's.
Bill
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There's no comparison........
......
...
..
That said, 9 out of 10 times, I still prefer to ride the V7.
Thanks Kev for your insightful comments. ;-T ;-T
I totally understand your "9 out of 10" comment, sometime we're at a loss to explain those factors that bring a big grin!
We're damn lucky to have sooooo many great choices.
Paul
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And on the other side of the coin there's about +25hp, and in my area a far stronger dealer network..... that I know to be true! :(
As for resale, seems you can always sell a Ducati in my part of the world, but you can't give away a Guzzi.... that I know to be true! :(
I'm thinking the suspension and fuelling on the Duc. will be better then the V7...
jas67, what say you about fuelling and suspension on your Monster vs the V7??
Paul
Kev M. summed it up pretty well. My 796, either by virtual of being two model years newer, or, because it has a different engine and controls, doesn't have the high-idle lever.
Fueling has been 100% perfect, period. That said, the cold-start issue on my V7R has become less of a problem for me, as I've likely trained myself to automatically let it warm up for a minute before trying to go, and, knowing just how to handle the throttle and clutch on that first launch after a cold start.
As for brakes, chassis, handling, etc, the Monster would absolutely kill the V7 on the track. On public roads, the limitations are less pronounced when trying to ride at reasonable speeds. I do prefer the Monster for the really twisty mountain roads, esp. those with steep climbs, as, I can enjoy the full throttle power of the Monster (around 70 rwhp, vs. about 40 for the V7).
Getting on the V7 after riding the Monster, it feels a bit primitive. I can still hustle it a long quite well though. It is well balanced. If they put an 87 HP engine in it w/o changing anything else, I'd call it over powered. The HP, chassis, and brakes, are all on the same level, IMHO.
All that said, I still enjoy my V7. Though, I also enjoy riding my R75/5, drum brakes and all.
If you're looking for all-out performance, the V7 isn't the right bike for the job. Of course, these things are relative. The same thing could be said about the Monster (696 or 796) as compared to something like a 1199 Panigale, or BMW S1000RR.
I'm less irritated when I get stuck behind slower traffic when riding it, because it is more enjoyable to ride at a more relaxed pace.
Because of the simpler maintenance of the V7 (much simpler valve adjustment, no chain, .... :beat_horse), I much prefer to use it for commuting than the Monster.
The V7 is definitely much more unique. There are scads of other bikes that comparable in style and performance to the Monster. There are few that can match the style of the V7. The V7 is also unique in being the only (currently being made and sold) shaft-drive motorcycle under 500 lbs (and well under at that), and under 1200cc. It is truly the closest thing, by a long shot, to a BMW airhead made today (see the V7/airhead thread).
Almost any time I stop for fuel or any other reason on the V7R, people stop to talk about it, riders and non-riders alike. With the Monster, this only happens occasionally.
I enjoy both bikes for different reasons.
We're damn lucky to have sooooo many great choices.
Paul
So true. Some mornings it is hard to decide which one to ride -- that is a good problem to have. ;D
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Some mornings it is hard to decide which one to ride -- that is a good problem to have. ;D
Amen ;-T
Guzzi. Benedict: "The V7 is our 747"
http://www.motociclismo.it/guzzi-benedetto-la-v7-e-il-nostro-747--moto-59831
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V7 Scrambler... will it happen? Probably.
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp19/demar39/Guzzi_V7_Scrambler_jpg_650.jpg)
http://www.motociclismo.it/moto-guzzi-ldquobene-la-california-1400-ma-poirdquo-moto-57457?fb_action_ids=10203636772112818&fb_action_types=og.comments&fb_source=aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582
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I think I can help sum up the difference between a bike with "true performance artistry" vs. "road worthiness artistry". In order to get the most enjoyment out of a bike with higher performance attributes, you need to ride it in a sporting manner. If you can get out and push it, it is in its glory (and likely so are you!). If you are out for a Sunday ride, the engine isn't doing what it does best and loses its panache and visceral quality, ergos may be harder to deal with, and the entire tight qualities you enjoyed while sporting on it are now simply more of a negative in the "I'm trying to relax now" experience. Guzzi's don't give that incredible rush in the "true performance artistry" but the "road worthiness artistry" is easy to relate to, relaxing, and potent enough when asked to make it visceral. So... when we saddle up on a bike, we need to decide what our goal is, and most often it is a ride where we aren't pushing the limits and where we simply want the bike to satisfy our basic desires. This is a hard balance to strike and Guzzi has this down! Numbers don't tell the story.
-Kevin
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Another factor to consider in a purchase is the social support factor - while the number of dealers and paid "trained" service personnel are not as numerous as the other brands.....
The support of the other riders, the clubs and online advice - the compassion and respect of most of the people who ride Guzzii, the willingness to help each other and share interesting life experiences, these are factors that many new to the brand that are often overlooked or undervalued!
I like to think of our brand as a mature, yet evolving brand, ridden by mature, respectable people! :-*
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And on the other side of the coin there's about +25hp, and in my area a far stronger dealer network..... that I know to be true! :(
I probably live in the only major area of the country where the Guzzi dealer network is stronger than the Ducati network.
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Inquiring minds -- and even duller ones such as mine :D -- wonder why, especially after that interesting Monster v. V7 compo.
Seriously, as a Guzzi Kool-Aid drunkard, I think I understand, but do wonder if there is actually something "real rather than romantic" that I might be missing.
Perhaps my involuntary benching has me thinking thoughts I shouldn't, but, always intrigued, I am becoming sorely tempted by the latest 7's.
I think Jay, and surprisingly enough KevD, probably answered it for me. I say surprisingly because KevD seems to still constantly lament the "does the V7 make enough power" issue.
But as they both pointed out the Guzzi is just plain fun, roadworthy, makes you smile even at legal speeds.
I hate to say it because many will jump to their preconceived negative notions, but it's similar to why a Harley is fun at 55-60 mph and a CBR can be boring at 80 mph.
I recently moved to the land of long, flat, and straight. I go out on the V7 and enjoy those roads as much as I can. Sure I miss the twisties from time-to-time as the V7 did shine there as well, but unlike the Duc, it shines on the flat forest roads as well.
On the Duc I wasn't here a week before I was like, hmmm, faster, hmmm faster, hmmm faster, hmmmm so the readout will SAY 120, I shoulda checked that with the GPS...
...seriously, I don't need that in my life.
Like Jay say, maybe the Duc would murder the V7 on a track, but I don't live on a track, I don't ride on a track. And in the real world, though I can tell what a fantastic chassis the Duc has, I don't really care as I can pretty much do anything that I would dare do (or SHOULD dare do) on the Duc with the V7 (except that I have no desire to find out if I could see 120 indicated on the V7, and that's fine with me).
I still say it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast, than a fast bike slow.
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I pretty sure I have broke the ton on my v65sp, not sure as the speedo if of course off by about 6 mph, and it only reads to 80 anyway! But it pulled long past 80, and maybe I was only going 95, but she felt more like 145!
I'm sure the new v7s, have far superior suspension then the weirdo stuff running on the 30 year old v65, but I get what Kev means.
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I pretty sure I have broke the ton on my v65sp, not sure as the speedo if of course off by about 6 mph, and it only reads to 80 anyway! But it pulled long past 80, and maybe I was only going 95, but she felt more like 145!
I'm sure the new v7s, have far superior suspension then the weirdo stuff running on the 30 year old v65, but I get what Kev means.
And I've broken the ton on the V7, and the suspension is NOT BAD for what it is, but it's not on the level of the Duc, but that doesn't matter... It doesn't make me WANT to break the ton just to have fun.
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And I've broken the ton on the V7, and the suspension is NOT BAD for what it is, but it's not on the level of the Duc, but that doesn't matter... It doesn't make me WANT to break the ton just to have fun.
At least the wind blast on the Monster lets you know your doing the ton, and at 113 indicated (or so I'm told ~;) it is real strong. By comparison, 125 MPH (indicated) on the VFR800 doesn't feel as fast, because the air is smooth, and mostly going over your head (or, so I'm told ~;).
And, yes, the V7 doesn't beg to do the ton like these other two bikes do.
Funny all three have similar displacements, 749cc/50HP, 803cc/87HP, and 782cc/106HP.
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Interesting, we are all three about the same age, though you and your dick head brother seem to have a bit wider experience on two wheels than I. I let you two figure out who is the dick! :D :D ;)
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But as they both pointed out the Guzzi is just plain fun, roadworthy, makes you smile even at legal speeds.
I hate to say it because many will jump to their preconceived negative notions, but it's similar to why a Harley is fun at 55-60 mph and a CBR can be boring at 80 mph.
I recently moved to the land of long, flat, and straight. I go out on the V7 and enjoy those roads as much as I can. Sure I miss the twisties from time-to-time as the V7 did shine there as well, but unlike the Duc, it shines on the flat forest roads as well.
On the Duc I wasn't here a week before I was like, hmmm, faster, hmmm faster, hmmm faster, hmmmm so the readout will SAY 120, I shoulda checked that with the GPS...
...seriously, I don't need that in my life.
Like Jay say, maybe the Duc would murder the V7 on a track, but I don't live on a track, I don't ride on a track. And in the real world, though I can tell what a fantastic chassis the Duc has, I don't really care as I can pretty much do anything that I would dare do (or SHOULD dare do) on the Duc with the V7 (except that I have no desire to find out if I could see 120 indicated on the V7, and that's fine with me).
I still say it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast, than a fast bike slow.
:+1 :+1 :+1
Amen. If I'm on a Griso and I get stuck behind a slow driver I go crazy. When this happens on my V7 it doesn't bother me. I'm good at slower speeds and I'm good at faster speeds and I'm good on straights and I'm good on twists...I'm good no matter what I'm doing.
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Interesting, we are all three about the same age, though you and your dick head brother seem to have a bit wider experience on two wheels than I. I let you two figure out who is the dick! :D :D ;)
:D both :-*
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I spend the majority of my motorcycle time on freeways. And as much as I enjoy my V7 (its my miles eater) if I am put in a situation where I "need the speed" is sure is nice to be sitting on the Ducati.
When commuting on the V7 I try to find the least obtrusive point on the slab and stay out of peoples way. But my Streetfighter is a scalpel. And riding with that comes a sweet peace of mind :)
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I think Jay, and surprisingly enough KevD, probably answered it for me. I say surprisingly because KevD seems to still constantly lament the "does the V7 make enough power" issue.
It's not "Does it make enough power", it's "Guzzi would sell a boat load" if it did make more power. 30hp gets the job done just fine, so no worries on "does it" with 38hp. There's more to it than hp for me though as I've stated. It needs to retain it's general character like the big blocks did, so... an upgrade to the same engine with a new head design is what I'd personally like. If they took it from 38 to around 50 RWHP that is a huge change and would separate it from say the Bonneville. We know that this can already be achieved today with the bikes you own, so it's not a big deal from stock set-up. It's fine as is of course. I've owned two of them (B750's) with more than 60k miles between them so I'm not trying to knock what's out there. Just a wish-list thing. It will happen as Pete seems to suggest in past history.
-Kevin
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It's not "Does it make enough power", it's "Guzzi would sell a boat load" if it did make more power. 30hp gets the job done just fine, so no worries on "does it" with 38hp. There's more to it than hp for me though as I've stated. It needs to retain it's general character like the big blocks did, so... an upgrade to the same engine with a new head design is what I'd personally like. If they took it from 38 to around 50 RWHP that is a huge change and would separate it from say the Bonneville. We know that this can already be achieved today with the bikes you own, so it's not a big deal from stock set-up. It's fine as is of course. I've owned two of them (B750's) with more than 60k miles between them so I'm not trying to knock what's out there. Just a wish-list thing. It will happen as Pete seems to suggest in past history.
-Kevin
Thanks for taking the time on that explanation. In that perspective I do not disagree (sales would increase).
I hope it happens, but I equally hope it doesn't have any negative unintended consequences with regards to general character and user friendliness.
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Sometimes I find it interesting to step outside the kool-aid - and some damn fine juice it is! - and peek at what non-Guzzisti think of the bikes and/or new releases. Over at Rideapart they posted the new V7 info and these are the comments thus far. In no way, shape, or form am I saying their comments are remotely valid, just interesting to sometimes see what folks have to say.
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Jack Meoph • 2 days ago
Guzzi has some style, but then....... Not only are their bikes underwhelming and somewhat overpriced (it must be a Piaggio group thing, my Vespa was a bit steep), but find a dealer, and then parts, and you end up with too many negatives over the one positive that they don't look complete cr@p. I suppose if you're in to uniqueness, yeah, but only other people who ride motorcycles "might" know what your bike is.
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Stephen Shuman • 2 days ago
"however is the now 6-speed transmission instead of-speed gear box"
I'm sorry, what?
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Scott Otte • 2 days ago
I love the way some of the Moto Guzzi look, I just can't get excited about how heavy and relatively under powered they are. A 750, that makes the same power as my 10 year old 620... =/
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Beju Scott Otte • 2 days ago
Man, it makes the same power as my 36 year old 550! I-4 vs V-Twin, I know, but that's still ridiculous!
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Richard Gozinya Beju • 2 days ago
The V7's engine is also not built for power. It's built to be a very easy going, relatively high fuel economy engine. It'd be extremely easy to take a 750 twin, and get way, way, way more power out of it. The Ducati 749 is proof of that.
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Beju Richard Gozinya • a day ago
So... the Honda Shadow of retro bikes, minus the Honda reliability and dealer network.
I really like the looks of the V7 and the 5.8 gallon tank would give awesome range for long trips, but it's a tough sell over one of the Triumph "modern classic" line. From comparisons and reviews I've seen, the V7 gets about the same or marginally better fuel economy over a Triumph Thruxton, in spite of the lighter weight and serious power deficit. I'd have to really like the ride of the V7 to pick it over a Thruxton/Bonneville. That's not to say that irrationality couldn't win out, I mean, we are talking about an Italian machine here. ;)
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MotoJedeye • a day ago
Will this bike even stand a chance with the new Ducati Scrambler out? I doubt it.
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Toly • 2 days ago
Moto Guzzi & Triumph didn't do jack this year, while Ducati kicked butt! Maybe it'll teach 'em
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Jack Meoph Toly • 2 days ago
I was thinking Triumph kinda went the Japanese route with the Bold New Graphics approach, but now I'm thinking that maybe Triumph let the others have a year, and they're going to break out some goodies at some other show down the road, or next year for sure.
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TheBoatDude Jack Meoph • 9 hours ago
I should hope so. I love my Bonneville and Triumph in general, but with the Classics line, I fear that they're focusing too much on lifestyle (a la H-D) and superficial changes. The last big change was the new mag wheel Bonnie and that was what? 3 years ago? I'd like to see a new lightweight bike (Tiger?) or some substantial changes to the classics (mainly in the realm of suspension and a tweak on the braking).
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Sentinel • 2 days ago
Since they didn't see fit to give it the proper deeper oil-sump it needs and a higher performing four-valve head for the engine I'm just still not interested.
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Speedo007 • 2 days ago
The Griso looks great, but the ergos are just so strange for me. I have long legs and arms, and even for me the handlebars feel miles away.
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William Connor Speedo007 • a day ago
Interesting. I have not ridden this one yet so I look forward to checking it out.
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Nick Napoda • 2 days ago
I am really into the Griso but not it's 550lb curb weight! That is the one point that keeps me away. I had the V7 and it was cool but just didn't offer enough performance to keep me engaged. Sold it for a Ducati Monster. Right now really looking forward to the Ducati Scrambler.
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Beale Nick Napoda • 2 days ago
Guzzi's are remarkably easy to toss around from corner to corner for how much they weigh, especially the Griso. They only feel piggy in town.
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Sometimes I find it interesting to step outside the kool-aid - and some damn fine juice it is! - and peek at what non-Guzzisti think of the bikes and/or new releases. Over at Rideapart they posted the new V7 info and these are the comments thus far. In no way, shape, or form am I saying their comments are remotely valid, just interesting to sometimes see what folks have to say.
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Nick Napoda • 2 days ago
I am really into the Griso but not it's 550lb curb weight! That is the one point that keeps me away. I had the V7 and it was cool but just didn't offer enough performance to keep me engaged. Sold it for a Ducati Monster. Right now really looking forward to the Ducati Scrambler.
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The next to the last comment is the most applicable. The V7 Classic line is not a lot heavier than the Ducatis, but is way down on power. I know for a fact that the 2v Ducati engines are very entertaining. Guzzi needs to upgrade the smallblock and add some power.
Guzzi V7 is curretly rated at @ 50 bhp. Scrambler at 70 bhp. Guzzi needs to step it up a bit.
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Ugh! Why did I read that. I had trained myself not to read the comments section of on-line motorcycle articles. I am just so much further along in knowing what I want in a motorcycle than 98% of the people that bother to post in a comments section.
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Ugh! Why did I read that. I had trained myself not to read the comments section of on-line motorcycle articles. I am just so much further along in knowing what I want in a motorcycle than 98% of the people that bother to post in a comments section.
:+1 But unfortunately, Guzzi must sell bikes to folks who don't understand or know the brand or know the motorcycles per se.
I can laugh at them because I know/love the brand and the bikes. I don't know if MG can afford to do the same. Even still, man, that one comment - nowhere near the truth - still stings a little, "The Honda Shadow of retro bikes." Fighting words, sir. ;D :D
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Less performance ? 6-speeds is the current standard in motorcycling. Every high-end sportsbike is running 6-speeds. How do you think the extra gear will hurt performance?
IF on the 6-speed one has to shift an extra time in a timed 1/4 mile run, then ...
Again, the 6-speed box will be "worth it" if the overall 6th gear ration is a bit taller than 5th on the 5-speed.
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that one comment - nowhere near the truth - still stings a little, "The Honda Shadow of retro bikes." Fighting words, sir. ;D :D
that d00d was eiter trolling, or is a complete dumba$$...
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IF on the 6-speed one has to shift an extra time in a timed 1/4 mile run, then ...
Again, the 6-speed box will be "worth it" if the overall 6th gear ration is a bit taller than 5th on the 5-speed.
With an 8,000 rpm redline, you'll only be using the first three gears in a 1/4 mile run. Maybe 4th, but I'd have to crunch some numbers...
And even if it did cause one extra shift, you're talking hundredths of a second to make a quick shift...
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With an 8,000 rpm redline, you'll only be using the first three gears in a 1/4 mile run. Maybe 4th, but I'd have to crunch some numbers...
And even if it did cause one extra shift, you're talking hundredths of a second to make a quick shift...
If you care about 1/4 mile time, this is the wrong bike. :beat_horse
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I love motorcycles, but the faster they are the less you can relax and enjoy the scenery. On the other hand they have to feel good when you twist the throttle and have a nice cruising RPM that you can feel good at and not be hunting all up and down trying to find it. The current V7 range can do all of that.
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If you care about 1/4 mile time, this is the wrong bike. :beat_horse
Most are.
For drag racing, the hyper-sports are pretty much where the action is...
Everything else is just slow...
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Most are.
For drag racing, the hyper-sports are pretty much where the action is...
Everything else is just slow...
I have a friend who's main business is building extended swing arms for those suckers. Uh, yeah. The light goes off, and they disappear. ;D
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That's awesome. Really dig the silver finished mags as per Guzzis of old.
:+1Black wheels have always looked like crap. Glad silver is returning.
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It is like Guzzi called me up and asked what changes would you make. I understand that opinions differ but for me... I wanted abs, I love that the jugs are moved forward, that the seat is lower and the pegs even lower, that is has a slicker gearbox and possibly less force to disengage clutch. Traction control?? but whatever, I'll take it. Been riding for almost 30yrs and never had abs but I just don't think it hurts. I will finally have a Guzzi. Buddy of mine had a v7 café and Griso so I'm familiar with them. Griso was awesome but honestly more than I need or want.
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It is like Guzzi called me up and asked what changes would you make. I understand that opinions differ but for me... I wanted abs, I love that the jugs are moved forward, that the seat is lower and the pegs even lower, that is has a slicker gearbox and possibly less force to disengage clutch. Traction control?? but whatever, I'll take it. Been riding for almost 30yrs and never had abs but I just don't think it hurts. I will finally have a Guzzi. Buddy of mine had a v7 café and Griso so I'm familiar with them. Griso was awesome but honestly more than I need or want.
I totally agree. I like my '13 Stone very much, but these are exactly the changes I would ask for. I'm on the opposite end of the riding experience spectrum from you (only 1.5 years), although I'm on the upper end of the aging experience (72+ years).
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Good for you SIB. Better late than never. I started riding 30 years ago but I have had too many extended breaks between bikes. Never again. This is now truly my dream bike. Ok, 20 more hp..... doh, why did I have to go there, lol. I would have bought it in 2009 if it had ABS etc. Truly, it is plenty power for my style of riding. Considering I have had a ruckus Vespa 200, Honda Cbr 250 and currently a Honda Grom it will feel like a rocket.
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Not sure if these have been posted but great looking bikes with upgrades. The blue looks sharp! If only I was shorter... :BEER:
http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/motorcycles/2015/2015-Moto-Guzzi-V7II-Special.htm
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Not sure if these have been posted but great looking bikes with upgrades. The blue looks sharp! If only I was shorter... :BEER:
http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/motorcycles/2015/2015-Moto-Guzzi-V7II-Special.htm
We have a whole threadfest for it...
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I love motorcycles, but the faster they are the less you can relax and enjoy the scenery. On the other hand they have to feel good when you twist the throttle and have a nice cruising RPM that you can feel good at and not be hunting all up and down trying to find it. The current V7 range can do all of that.
I can ride any motor cycle as slow as a V7.... and most they can also be ridden faster, much faster! :beat_horse
Paul
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I can ride any motor cycle as slow as a V7.... and most they can also be ridden faster, much faster! :beat_horse
Paul
Oh brother... Here we go again.
You CAN, but it might suck.
Like one day I was riding a 180+ HP bike wishing it was a Thruxton instead.
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I can ride any motor cycle as slow as a V7.... and most they can also be ridden faster, much faster! :beat_horse
Paul
You really need to move somewhere with more corners then!
Kurt
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"All you have to do is squeeze the clutch and engage the gear to appreciate a soft and quiet action which was unheard of on the previous five speed gearbox."
You don't say? ::)
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"All you have to do is squeeze the clutch and engage the gear to appreciate a soft and quiet action which was unheard of on the previous five speed gearbox."
You don't say? ::)
I never found the gearbox in either my 2009 V7C or 2013 V7R to be anywhere near as clunky and "agricultural" as people make them out to be.
The 6 speed Breva 1100 is smoother though. Both were way smoother, and either to shift than the 2000 Jackal that I rode one time.
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You really need to move somewhere with more corners then!
Kurt
I've been in Florida for 11 years, and haven't seen one snow flake but ride up go Ga., Tn, NC. a few time each year. I bought my 1200 Sport in Dahlonega Ga. Before Florida it was 38 years in the Catskill mountains and I do miss the roads there. Now I spend 6-8 each summer playing in the Alps ....... it keeps my riding skills sharp, get out of the Florida heat, and play in the corners on the side of the mountains! ;-T
Retirement is a good thing, a very good thing!
I own a Vespa 300 .... it was purchased in Vegas, rode the Cali coast to Yosemite then home to Florida, 30 days 5K miles. I know S L O W!
My point still stands.... you can ride S L O W on any bike if you want to kick back and enjoy the show.
Paul
Paul
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Paul, you are assuming everyone has the will power to drive slow on a fast bike. If I have a fast bike, I tend to ride fast and push my limits. I guess it is the rush of adrenaline. I have a hard time not riding faster. When I am done riding, I think to myself that it wasn't really worth the risks that I took. Kind of like drinking 18 beers is fun while your drinking them but the next day you wonder what the hell you pushed it that far for. As you can see from my previous post I tend to buy slower bikes on purpose. It just takes the decision on how far to push my limits out of the equation. It makes sense to me and I never feel like I'm missing out by not going faster if that option isn't immediately present. In my opinion, many of the slower bikes have more character as well due to the engine design, gearing and ergonomics that usually come in that package.
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Yeah that's true. I can ride my 848 slow. Only problem is it hates it - and isn't comfortable or very enjoyable when you do.
I loved my old V7R because you could hustle it as hard as anything through corners - yet it wasn't constantly wanting to then blast away down the next straight.
It's no track bike and I can understand why people with freeways and straight roads want more power - but the V7's a fine road bike wherever there are plenty of corners!
Kurt
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My point still stands.... you can ride S L O W on any bike if you want to kick back and enjoy the show.
And my point still stands too, chances are it's gonna suck if you're using 1/10th of the capability way more than if you're using 8/10ths.
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Yeah that's true. I can ride my 848 slow. Only problem is it hates it - and isn't comfortable or very enjoyable when you do.
I loved my old V7R because you could hustle it as hard as anything through corners - yet it wasn't constantly wanting to then blast away down the next straight.
It's no track bike and I can understand why people with freeways and straight roads want more power - but the V7's a fine road bike wherever there are plenty of corners!
Kurt
+1 Brazilian!
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Paul, you are assuming everyone has the will power to drive slow on a fast bike. If I have a fast bike, I tend to ride fast and push my limits. I guess it is the rush of adrenaline. I have a hard time not riding faster. When I am done riding, I think to myself that it wasn't really worth the risks that I took. Kind of like drinking 18 beers is fun while your drinking them but the next day you wonder what the hell you pushed it that far for. As you can see from my previous post I tend to buy slower bikes on purpose. It just takes the decision on how far to push my limits out of the equation. It makes sense to me and I never feel like I'm missing out by not going faster if that option isn't immediately present. In my opinion, many of the slower bikes have more character as well due to the engine design, gearing and ergonomics that usually come in that package.
You are indeed correct... I do assume we are each in control of our actions. ;)
There are many things to like about the V7, HP is not one of them. To use it's performance as a substitute for self control is doesn't compute in my aged mental calculator.
You guys want to jump to the extreme....I'm not suggesting the V7 become a super bike with 180hp, a narrow power band at 12K RPM, and cramped ergos, but 60HP at the rear wheel would make it much more engaging for me. What's wrong with giving it the same power as the new Duc Scrambler?
Paul
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HP wars are ultimately utterly pointless and ridiculous.
On the Ducati 1199 forums they commonly refer to the 150 HP 899s as "girl's bikes".
On the road I'll take pleasant torque and a characterful purring engine over eyeball squishing top end every day!
Kurt
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You guys want to jump to the extreme....I'm not suggesting the V7 become a super bike with 180hp, a narrow power band at 12K RPM, and cramped ergos, but 60HP at the rear wheel would make it much more engaging for me. What's wrong with giving it the same power as the new Duc Scrambler?
Paul
I understand what you're saying, but the extreme example is meant to illustrate the downside and there is a sliding scale between the two where you lose the desirable characteristics of one when you go toward the other.
And as I've already said. I will ride the V7 in my garage 9 out of 10 times over the Duc 696.
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I'm with you Kev.
I've spent time on a 696 and a Triumph Thruxton. Neither actuly feel faster or more satisfying on the road.
I'd take a V7 in preference too!
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To be clear I'm NOT saying to leave it alone and not pursue a newer model with more power.
I'm suggesting Piaggio proceed with caution and we be careful for what we wish.
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Absolutely - evolution not revolution.
Low rpm torque unmatchd by its competitors is a key small block strength. You hardly ever need anything below 4th once rolling.
I still think a heron headed 2 valve 850 would be my perfect bike!
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Torque curve comparison, V7 classic (pre - single throttle body) vs V75 4V
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y262/DogW/ScreenHunter_3-5.jpg)
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Wow! That's a significant difference!
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You really need to move somewhere with more corners then!
Kurt
Dear Mr. Kurt. You and many here are living in a Guzzi fantasy world were 38hp to the crank is all you need. BUT power is not for 100% of the times, its for when you need it, as when stuck behind a slower vehicle on a two lane twisty mountain hwy.. Or when accelerating on a short on ramp. Or when in traffic and you need quick acceleration to save your bacon. Engine power is needed just as much as brake power. No one here would ride a bike with weak brakes. My HD883 is great for around town and running errands, BUT would not even think of taking a long trip because of lack of engine and brake power.
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Wow! That's a significant difference!
You should feel the yeehaa difference between the upper revs of the V65 8 valve vs. the V75 4 valve even though overall torque is not greater. They simply keep pulling and it's darned addictive.
If this was the only thing Guzzi changed they would have a fantastic solution in keeping everything intact as far as what exists, yet appeal to the throttle twisters who want that something extra. Win/win.
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I understand what you're saying, but the extreme example is meant to illustrate the downside and there is a sliding scale between the two where you lose the desirable characteristics of one when you go toward the other.
And as I've already said. I will ride the V7 in my garage 9 out of 10 times over the Duc 696.
The characteristic you seek is a SLOW bike? What am I missing?
Paul
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Dear Mr. Kurt. You and many here are living in a Guzzi fantasy world were 38hp to the crank is all you need. BUT power is not for 100% of the times, its for when you need it, as when stuck behind a slower vehicle on a two lane twisty mountain hwy.. Or when accelerating on a short on ramp. Or when in traffic and you need quick acceleration to save your bacon. Engine power is needed just as much as brake power. No one here would ride a bike with weak brakes. My HD883 is great for around town and running errands, BUT would not even think of taking a long trip because of lack of engine and brake power.
Point of order 50 hp to the crank.
And perhaps you should learn better riding techniques because one of my buddies rode his 07 883 from PA to Alaska and back. Another has over 100k on his 05.
Jenn rode from PA to FL and back on her 05 883L the first month she owned it and THAT was the middle of winter.
Hell, I've got two friends I've mentioned who tour on their 883's regularly. Their last trip was PA to Milwaukee and the UP. Of course this if the same couple who rode from Miami to Philly with her on a Rebel 250 before she got the 883.
This conversation is therefore about DESIRE and NOT about NEED.
Now about that time my buddy and I pulled away from and lost two JAPanInc Sportbike in the twisty road through French Creek State Forest on a pair of 883's. ;)
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The characteristic you seek is a SLOW bike? What am I missing?
Paul
What are you missing? Thanks for the setup, but I'll refrain from the cheap shots. ;)
You're missing my point. I'm seeking a bike that is FUN closer to legal limits.
I'm seeking a bike that I can run through the gears without breaking the speed limit (or the ton), by SECOND.
I'm seeking a bike I can work through the tight corners and not take the Dragon or the road to Tortilla Flats in only 1st and 2nd because anything else is too much for the road.
Even the Duc 696 tempts one above the ton and doesn't feel as fun at 80 mph in a sweeper as my V7 does at 70.
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Something to ponder. An 8 valve motor likes to sit up in the revs a bit more than the 4 valve (at least in comparison to the comparable big and small blocks at the time of my comparison). I had a Centauro, a V11 Lemans, a Breva 750, and 2 Larios. The 8 Valves smoothed out at around 5k RPM and the 4 valves at around 4K RPM (give or take a couple). Both bikes were 5 speed and geared lower. The lower gearing makes perfect sense really. However, gearing has no bearing on engine speed smoothness as RPM's are RPM's. I've changed gearing and it made no difference so can't argue that fact. In other words, if you go by feel with the motor, there's less shifting on the 8 valve motor because they simply settle in higher. So... Guzzi throws a 6th gear in now?? Hmmm... makes me wonder. I've got the same gearing in my Lario now as a common V65 (changed out primary) with 16" wheels and my cruising speed RPM at 70mph is 4800. That is where the bikes engine is happiest to begin its settling in. I, for one, would NOT want a 6 speed in a higher revving bike unless it was geared identical to what's there in the 5 speed with the addition of a 6th gear for when you want to do the ton. If they're essentially spreading 5 out over 6 gears I think it's a waste. I also don't think they need more help down low from the current gearing on the sb engines.
I get that it's an upgraded box and easier for them to manufacture, and the marketing department has something to write about. From that perspective I'm fine with the change. But, I'm not overly excited from a "real-world" perspective on need if they go to 8 valve heads. Just my perspective on 8-valve heads through the years. Don't know the current 8-valve heads so would love to hear others on that.
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What are you missing? Thanks for the setup, but I'll refrain from the cheap shots. ;)
You're missing my point. I'm seeking a bike that is FUN closer to legal limits.
I'm seeking a bike that I can run through the gears without breaking the speed limit (or the ton), by SECOND.
I'm seeking a bike I can work through the tight corners and not take the Dragon or the road to Tortilla Flats in only 1st and 2nd because anything else is too much for the road.
Even the Duc 696 temps one above the ton and doesn't feel as fun at 80 mph in a sweeper as my V7 does at 70.
Did not attempt to set you up Kev, Just want to understand the reasoning behind your comments.
Paul
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Dear Mr. Kurt. You and many here are living in a Guzzi fantasy world were 38hp to the crank is all you need. BUT power is not for 100% of the times, its for when you need it, as when stuck behind a slower vehicle on a two lane twisty mountain hwy.. Or when accelerating on a short on ramp. Or when in traffic and you need quick acceleration to save your bacon. Engine power is needed just as much as brake power. No one here would ride a bike with weak brakes. My HD883 is great for around town and running errands, BUT would not even think of taking a long trip because of lack of engine and brake power.
I beg to differ. You and many others are living in a fantasy world about how much power you actually NEED on the road. My old V7R had no problems in any of those situations with about 50HP at the crank. My current modded 848 runs about 140HP at the crank and is no more enjoyable, or that much faster on the road, wherever there are corners.
But i spend 90% of my riding in back road twisties - YMMV.
Each to their own, but why people who dont own a V7 and have no intention of buying one spend so much time whining about them is puzzling. Get a hobby!
Kurt
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And though I'm no racer, I don't pussy my 848.
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g280/tazturtle/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsd7e8faa5.jpg) (http://s58.photobucket.com/user/tazturtle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsd7e8faa5.jpg.html)
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I beg to differ. You and many others are living in a fantasy world about how much power you actually NEED on the road. My old V7R had no problems in any of those situations with about 50HP at the crank. My current modded 848 runs about 140HP at the crank and is no more enjoyable, or that much faster on the road, wherever there are corners.
But i spend 90% of my riding in back road twisties - YMMV.
Each to their own, but why people who dont own a V7 and have no intention of buying one spend so much time whining about them is puzzling. Get a hobby!
Kurt
************************************************* No need to get all defensive and insulting. I ride an EV1064 and use all of its engine power(7800rpm) on twisty roads as I'm in second most of the time and third if there is enough straight between corners. While its true that the V7 will corner as good as the EV, its not true that it will power out of the corner as good as the EV, I have ridden a 2012 racer on the same roads as the EV so its not an opinion, its a fact.
Dear Kev M. I know riders that traveled to Alaska and around the globe on Vespas and other small cc's two wheelers and the fact that your wife rode it to Florida proves what many here have stated, "The V7 is a GIRL bike".
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****************************************************
:pop
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************************************************************** No need to get all defensive and insulting. I ride an EV1064 and use all of its engine power(7800rpm) on twisty roads as I'm in second most of the time and third if there is enough straight between corners. While its true that the V7 will corner as good as the EV, its not true that it will power out of the corner as good as the EV, I have ridden a 2012 racer on the same roads as the EV so its not an opinion, its a fact.
Dear Kev M. I know riders that traveled to Alaska and around the globe on Vespas and other small cc's two wheelers and the fact that your wife rode it to Florida proves what many here have stated, "The V7 is a GIRL bike".
OK, forget it. I'm not being defensive, I'm carrying on a conversation and I'm not gonna waste my time throwing around moronic insults
You would do well to listen and perhaps educate yourself.
For example, the power-to-weight ratio of the EV is almost identical to the new V7. I put a happy 40k on my Jackal, but it was materially no quicker. I base this not on one demo ride but 7k miles on my V7 and specs.
Also on the one hand you say you can't tour on an 883 cause it's too slow, then when I provide examples to the contrary you admit to knowing someone who has toured extreme distances on something less powerful. ;D
And uh you lost me on what Jenn has to do with the V7 as I've only talked about her riding her 883, 1200 or Duc, but no matter.
I tried to explain my preferences and points on this. A sliding scale of balance between performance and efficiency, of real world usability allowing you to push the bike a little without as great a risk to life and limb vs riding a super bike at 2/10ths.
Feel free to disagree with preferences, but at least respond with some real world facts and experience.
But if you can't or your logic fails and all you can do is start calling names that's kinda sad.
I'm out, ride safe.
No animosity meant.
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Aside from the gratuitous snarky comments, this thread beautifully illustrates how great it is that there is a huge range of motorcycle types available, something to suit everyone's taste. Without needing to disparage other folks' taste, I can unapologetically state my preference for the V7 line. I neither need nor want more power or weight to satisfy my cycling needs. If my choice were limited to bigger bikes, I probably wouldn't be riding at all. In other areas of my life, I drive a Prius rather than a Hummer, Corvette, or Ferrari, my house is mid sized instead of a McMansion or one-room apartment, and I only have one wife rather than being a bachelor or polygamist. To each his/her own. Enjoy!
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If more, more, more is what you like, have I got a girl for you! (Not really. ;) )
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/vintage_weight1-222x300_zpsf6de8377.jpg)
Or how aboot a bike that makes you work out each ride. No pain No gain.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/upgrade_zps98c6c096.jpg)
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If more, more, more is what you like, have I got a girl for you! (Not really. ;) )
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/vintage_weight1-222x300_zpsf6de8377.jpg)
Or how aboot a bike that makes you work out each ride. No pain No gain.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/upgrade_zps98c6c096.jpg)
For the ride of your life! ;D
Pul
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************************************************* No need to get all defensive and insulting. I ride an EV1064 and use all of its engine power(7800rpm) on twisty roads as I'm in second most of the time and third if there is enough straight between corners. While its true that the V7 will corner as good as the EV, its not true that it will power out of the corner as good as the EV, I have ridden a 2012 racer on the same roads as the EV so its not an opinion, its a fact.
Dear Kev M. I know riders that traveled to Alaska and around the globe on Vespas and other small cc's two wheelers and the fact that your wife rode it to Florida proves what many here have stated, "The V7 is a GIRL bike".
Sorry Molto - It was never my intent to insult you or anyone else. I'm not sure where in my post I did that!?
The fact remains that you and others complain on a thread about a bike you don't own and apparently have no intention of buying. It's all a bit bizarre! By the standards of modern sports bikes, wouldn't the HP of an EV and in fact every road Guzzi ever made make them "girl's bikes"?
Not that I like that term - because I know some very capable and fast female riders.
I'm all for live and let live and thank goodness everyone has different tastes in their two wheeled machines. I guess I really don't get why so many whine about the V7s - which are great real world road bikes.
Kurt
Kurt
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And though I'm no racer, I don't pussy my 848.
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g280/tazturtle/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsd7e8faa5.jpg) (http://s58.photobucket.com/user/tazturtle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsd7e8faa5.jpg.html)
C'mon Taz. Sheesh - There's like an 1/8" left to use there. You're wasting rubber man. Stop going easy on the tire an lean that bike a little. :BEER:
Disclaimer: I'm making a joke here and not intending to insult Taz or his tire with the skinny little chicken strips. Really - I'm not.
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Ha ha Eric. I always like to keep a 1/8" margin for safety on the street... :p
Back on topic: i guess if i only had 50 more HP they'd be gone!!!
Kurt
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I got a chance to to ride a 2014 V7 Stone at Portland Inernational Raceway courtesy of Portland Moto Guzzi last August and was very impressed. I was able to easily pass the bigger bikes on the corners and had power to hit the ton on the straights. I am in the hunt for one now. I like the new 6 speed with ABS. Add the record kit fairing and have some fun.
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I sure wish there were some way to persuade Moto Guzzi to release the 6-sp. V7s in the US soon, rather than their plan to introduce them a year from now as 2016 models, as my dealer informed me. I'm willing to take the risk of being an early adopter.
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Holy Cow.
Go faster. Go slower. More power. Less power. Five gears. Six gears. Faster. Faster still. Can I go faster? Do you want to go faster? Why? Why not?
I have a 2013 V7 Stone with the Kaifa forks. My question, to any who may know the answer, is - will the V7II have Kaifa forks or something better?
I have four bikes, including the V7, and they're all pretty good bikes. Of them all, the V7's suspension is ... in the greatest need of enhancement.
I realize I have options to improve the V7's suspension and I fully intend to implement one of those options. Or maybe there is only the Matris option for the forks ... I haven't been able to absolutely pin that down.
But I only want to do this once so I would like to know if the V7II will introduce new and better options for up-grading my forks? And if the V7II has Kaifa forks just like the 2013 and 2014 V7 bikes, what are the odds that additional companies will offer up-grades to those forks? Cuz the stock Kaifa sorta suck. I've ridden worse. But not since about 1978.
I really like this bike but the suspension has just got to be improved or the bike will never live up to its potential. Unless your idea of potential is scaring the living daylights out of yourself in some cranky washboard corner with a come-hither guard-rail on the outside.
Appreciate your thoughts, folks. Chill the flame, please. I'm just old biker trash who seeks a 21st Century suspension for his latest cool scooter.
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I'm with you on the forks - and the power thing. The soft Marzocchis on my '11 V7R were its Achilles heel.
Here's my abridged version of the "more power" race since the 60's:
1963 Triumph Bonneville - 46HP
1969 Honda 750 Four - 67HP
1982 Suzuki Katana 1100 - 111HP
1990 Kawasaki ZZR 1100 - 146HP
2000 Suzuki Hayabusa - 175HP
2012 BMW S1000RR - 193HP
2016 Ducati Panigale 1299 210HP??
And over all that time period motorcyclists have spent most of their time on the road around 70mph! How often do any of us spend much time on the road above 100mph?...
Kurt
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I'm with you on the forks - and the power thing. The soft Marzocchis on my '11 V7R were its Achilles heel.
Here's my abridged version of the "more power" race since the 60's:
1963 Triumph Bonneville - 46HP
<snip>
2016 Ducati Panigale 1299 210HP??
And over all that time period motorcyclists have spent most of their time on the road around 70mph! How often do any of us spend much time on the road above 100mph?...
THIS!
I've got ZERO interest in that entire list of bikes except the modern version of the Bonnie and MAYBE MAYBE the modern version of the CB.
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I got a chance to to ride a 2014 V7 Stone at Portland Inernational Raceway courtesy of Portland Moto Guzzi last August and was very impressed. I was able to easily pass the bigger bikes on the corners and had power to hit the ton on the straights. I am in the hunt for one now. I like the new 6 speed with ABS. Add the record kit fairing and have some fun.
I certainly could not keep up with you on the track on any machine, but I may try to do so in purchases ... à la our Norges ... a bit after you and sans fairing.
Decisions, decisions: tractor, mini-split for Moto Grappa, or V7?
If I space that right, it'll be in that order one year at a time, which gives Mandello time to get it all right for my 70th birthday present to myself in 2017. ;D
Bill
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Holy Cow.
Go faster. Go slower. More power. Less power. Five gears. Six gears. Faster. Faster still. Can I go faster? Do you want to go faster? Why? Why not?
I have a 2013 V7 Stone with the Kaifa forks. My question, to any who may know the answer, is - will the V7II have Kaifa forks or something better?
I have four bikes, including the V7, and they're all pretty good bikes. Of them all, the V7's suspension is ... in the greatest need of enhancement.
I realize I have options to improve the V7's suspension and I fully intend to implement one of those options. Or maybe there is only the Matris option for the forks ... I haven't been able to absolutely pin that down.
But I only want to do this once so I would like to know if the V7II will introduce new and better options for up-grading my forks? And if the V7II has Kaifa forks just like the 2013 and 2014 V7 bikes, what are the odds that additional companies will offer up-grades to those forks? Cuz the stock Kaifa sorta suck. I've ridden worse. But not since about 1978.
I really like this bike but the suspension has just got to be improved or the bike will never live up to its potential. Unless your idea of potential is scaring the living daylights out of yourself in some cranky washboard corner with a come-hither guard-rail on the outside.
Appreciate your thoughts, folks. Chill the flame, please. I'm just old biker trash who seeks a 21st Century suspension for his latest cool scooter.
Maybe with an upgraded hp sb engine will come better suspension. More of a justification thing. Think entry-level here (not my words) and you get what you get. I'd love to see this one stick around while the new one comes out with some goodies on it. Both parties would be happy.
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My guess would be any factory front suspension upgrade would be limited to the Racer model and the Stone and Special would retain the lower quality goods. I'm not holding my breath on that one and waiting around for what may or may not happen. I just had the Matris kit installed and I'm now waiting on some weight specific springs for the Bitubos. I'm hoping those upgrades will do the job.
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I sure wish there were some way to persuade Moto Guzzi to release the 6-sp. V7s in the US soon, rather than their plan to introduce them a year from now as 2016 models, as my dealer informed me. I'm willing to take the risk of being an early adopter.
USA has to wait until 2017? Now that's disappointing. :(
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More likely 2016, but still stinks
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Not quite until 2016; my dealer told me that US import will be begin in the last quarter of 1015 and they'll be marketed here as 2016 models.
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I've never understood the rationale for the long US delays.
Is it about the length of time to get approval for your state and national standards?
Is it about testing the bike to ensure the manufacturer isnt subject to litigation?
Is it about protecting The Motor Company?
Australia gets the new versions within a couple of months of Europe and our sales are roughly half the size of the US for Guzzi. Very puzzling.
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I've never understood the rationale for the long US delays.
Is it about the length of time to get approval for your state and national standards?
Is it about testing the bike to ensure the manufacturer isnt subject to litigation?
Is it about protecting The Motor Company?
Australia gets the new versions within a couple of months of Europe and our sales are roughly half the size of the US for Guzzi. Very puzzling.
It's always been that way.
If anything, Guzzi has gotten better under Piaggio. They have been doing a good job of getting bikes to The USA sooner than they ever have.
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I've never understood the rationale for the long US delays.
Is it about the length of time to get approval for your state and national standards?
Is it about testing the bike to ensure the manufacturer isnt subject to litigation?
Is it about protecting The Motor Company?
Australia gets the new versions within a couple of months of Europe and our sales are roughly half the size of the US for Guzzi. Very puzzling.
It's because they view the US as their dumping ground for NOS! ;)
Paul
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Holy Cow.
Go faster. Go slower. More power. Less power. Five gears. Six gears. Faster. Faster still. Can I go faster? Do you want to go faster? Why? Why not?
I have a 2013 V7 Stone with the Kaifa forks. My question, to any who may know the answer, is - will the V7II have Kaifa forks or something better?
I have four bikes, including the V7, and they're all pretty good bikes. Of them all, the V7's suspension is ... in the greatest need of enhancement.
I realize I have options to improve the V7's suspension and I fully intend to implement one of those options. Or maybe there is only the Matris option for the forks ... I haven't been able to absolutely pin that down.
But I only want to do this once so I would like to know if the V7II will introduce new and better options for up-grading my forks? And if the V7II has Kaifa forks just like the 2013 and 2014 V7 bikes, what are the odds that additional companies will offer up-grades to those forks? Cuz the stock Kaifa sorta suck. I've ridden worse. But not since about 1978.
I really like this bike but the suspension has just got to be improved or the bike will never live up to its potential. Unless your idea of potential is scaring the living daylights out of yourself in some cranky washboard corner with a come-hither guard-rail on the outside.
Appreciate your thoughts, folks. Chill the flame, please. I'm just old biker trash who seeks a 21st Century suspension for his latest cool scooter.
Welcome to WG MRL. I was hanging out with Todd yesterday, and had a look at his sorted V7. He can fix your suspension. All it takes is money.
Ping Todd@Guzzitech.com tell him I sent ya.
and yes, it *needs* to be upgraded if you are going to be canyon scratching.
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Wow, interesting discussion.
I am with Kev on his points.
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Trust me. Don't skimp on the forks if you are gong to push on!
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g280/tazturtle/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsee5c626a.jpg) (http://s58.photobucket.com/user/tazturtle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsee5c626a.jpg.html)
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g280/tazturtle/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps2336bfdc.jpg) (http://s58.photobucket.com/user/tazturtle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps2336bfdc.jpg.html)
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Trust me. Don't skimp on the forks if you are gong to push on!
Absolutely.
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The fact remains that you and others complain on a thread about a bike you don't own and apparently have no intention of buying. It's all a bit bizarre! By the standards of modern sports bikes, wouldn't the HP of an EV and in fact every road Guzzi ever made make them "girl's bikes"?
Kurt
And it's Kurt for the win. Nicely, and humorously, said.
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Guzzi is a boutique motorcycle manufacturer. These are hand made machines, fine Italian craftmanship. With that said, I wonder if it is possible for the factory to have a 'custom' program. In a perfect world the customer could order, say, a V7 with green frame (like my '73 1000S), black tank, and Ohlins suspension. Even if we only got the option of better suspension, I think the end result would be a winner. Just look at all the angst created by the current suspension, which has been built down to a price. The reality is that most of us are 'mature' riders and are choosing to ride a smaller motorcycle due to the weight and performance; as opposed to the thought that the V7 appeals only to entry riders. I'd spring for better suspension from the factory, knowing that I would still have to dial it in for my weight.
Peter Y.
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Im not sure exactly what qualifies as a boutique mfg.? But to me, a boutique mfg. would be producing a few dozen to a few hundred machines a year, certainly no more than a thousand.
Moto Guzzi will make over 6000 bikes this year, truly small numbers for a modern player, but to my mind far above the boutique level.
Perhaps it's just semantics, but at some point the line is drawn, and I would call Guzzi a low volume manufacture, which is a whole different connotation than boutique to me.
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Cheers John :BEER:
And I hear you Peter, some more factory options would be nice.
Though, I guess everyone makes a bike their own anyway and it's a lot of fun modding to please yourself. And nice when others appreciate it too.
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g280/tazturtle/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps13e13427.jpg) (http://s58.photobucket.com/user/tazturtle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps13e13427.jpg.html)
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g280/tazturtle/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsdaede467.jpg) (http://s58.photobucket.com/user/tazturtle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsdaede467.jpg.html)
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Speaking as the "new rider" and someone coming to riding late in life, I can say that when I purchased my 2013 V7 Special this spring, what attracted me was a bike that was fun to ride and one that was accessible to me as a new rider. I visited shops and viewed brand after brand of bikes that were 10s, if not 100s of lbs heavier. No thanks. I looked at bike after bike that promised bleeding edge horsepower, acceleration, and performance. As a new rider, those words sound more like "danger, danger, and more danger". But after finding a used V7 at a local shop, I knew I'd found the right bike that balanced being accessible to a new rider and had room to grown into. I immediately contacted a dealer about buying a new one. I just wanted a simple standard bike and this felt right. Now with close to 5000 miles on my Guzzi in my first riding season I'm absolutely certain I made the right choice for my first bike.
Looking at the addition of traction control and ABS to the next years models...I'm not sure it would have changed my opinion much. It wasn't a feature I was looking for, I wanted a bike I could relate to mechanically, not a computer. But anything that gives Guzzi a bike that can get people into the brand is a good thing in my book. Without the V7 and without the current specs of the V7 I wouldn't have spent my money on buying a Guzzi. Now that I've have one, I can't wait to get another. I can't wait to spend more money on the one I have customizing it. Maybe if Guzzi offered performance part options for their bikes to that people who wanted to upgrade, they could. But changing the V7 into a different bike seems like it cuts off a certain segment of riders that *are* spending money with them.
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Speaking as the "new rider" and someone coming to riding late in life, I can say that when I purchased my 2013 V7 Special this spring, what attracted me was a bike that was fun to ride and one that was accessible to me as a new rider. I visited shops and viewed brand after brand of bikes that were 10s, if not 100s of lbs heavier. No thanks. I looked at bike after bike that promised bleeding edge horsepower, acceleration, and performance. As a new rider, those words sound more like "danger, danger, and more danger". But after finding a used V7 at a local shop, I knew I'd found the right bike that balanced being accessible to a new rider and had room to grown into. I immediately contacted a dealer about buying a new one. I just wanted a simple standard bike and this felt right. Now with close to 5000 miles on my Guzzi in my first riding season I'm absolutely certain I made the right choice for my first bike.
Looking at the addition of traction control and ABS to the next years models...I'm not sure it would have changed my opinion much. It wasn't a feature I was looking for, I wanted a bike I could relate to mechanically, not a computer. But anything that gives Guzzi a bike that can get people into the brand is a good thing in my book. Without the V7 and without the current specs of the V7 I wouldn't have spent my money on buying a Guzzi. Now that I've have one, I can't wait to get another. I can't wait to spend more money on the one I have customizing it. Maybe if Guzzi offered performance part options for their bikes to that people who wanted to upgrade, they could. But changing the V7 into a different bike seems like it cuts off a certain segment of riders that *are* spending money with them.
Kindred spirit. I also came to riding late (72 years old) and was attracted to the Guzzi V7 precisely because it's light, powerful enough for me, and I could actually enjoy riding it instead of wrestling with it. Who wants to ride a brahma bull when a well-tempered horse is an option? Only a rodeo bull rider. Same with bikes. I've put 10k enjoyable miles on it over the last two seasons. I've locked the rear wheel once or twice, fortunately only briefly, so as not to cause a high sider. I'd appreciate ABS to minimize that worry.
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Kindred spirit. I also came to riding late (72 years old) and was attracted to the Guzzi V7 precisely because it's light, powerful enough for me, and I could actually enjoy riding it instead of wrestling with it. Who wants to ride a brahma bull when a well-tempered horse is an option? Only a rodeo bull rider. Same with bikes. I've put 10k enjoyable miles on it over the last two seasons. I've locked the rear wheel once or twice, fortunately only briefly, so as not to cause a high sider. I'd appreciate ABS to minimize that worry.
Speaking as the "new rider" and someone coming to riding late in life, I can say that when I purchased my 2013 V7 Special this spring, what attracted me was a bike that was fun to ride and one that was accessible to me as a new rider. I visited shops and viewed brand after brand of bikes that were 10s, if not 100s of lbs heavier. No thanks. I looked at bike after bike that promised bleeding edge horsepower, acceleration, and performance. As a new rider, those words sound more like "danger, danger, and more danger". But after finding a used V7 at a local shop, I knew I'd found the right bike that balanced being accessible to a new rider and had room to grown into. I immediately contacted a dealer about buying a new one. I just wanted a simple standard bike and this felt right. Now with close to 5000 miles on my Guzzi in my first riding season I'm absolutely certain I made the right choice for my first bike.
Looking at the addition of traction control and ABS to the next years models...I'm not sure it would have changed my opinion much. It wasn't a feature I was looking for, I wanted a bike I could relate to mechanically, not a computer. But anything that gives Guzzi a bike that can get people into the brand is a good thing in my book. Without the V7 and without the current specs of the V7 I wouldn't have spent my money on buying a Guzzi. Now that I've have one, I can't wait to get another. I can't wait to spend more money on the one I have customizing it. Maybe if Guzzi offered performance part options for their bikes to that people who wanted to upgrade, they could. But changing the V7 into a different bike seems like it cuts off a certain segment of riders that *are* spending money with them.
Great posts.
Appreciate you saying all of that, and suspect you speak for many here and also those just out there riding their V7's.
Best wishes for many miles of smiles.
Bill
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In a perfect world the customer could order, say, a V7 with green frame (like my '73 1000S), black tank, and Ohlins suspension.
Peter Y.
I assume you mean 93? Geez, you've gone off the deep end. How many Guzzi's do you now own? Is this three or four?
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I assume you mean 93? Geez, you've gone off the deep end. How many Guzzi's do you now own? Is this three or four?
You could well be correct about the year. I still dream about my '73 Norton so maybe that's where the year came from. There is a story about the 1000S, bear with me. I was still living in Germany when my brother (in VA) wrote to tell me that he was getting this really neat bike, a 1000S. He also knew about another one in CO that was coming on the market. If you can't trust your younger brother who can you trust? I said I'd take the second bike (green frame, black tank with green stripes). My next duty station was in Tampa so I flew up to Roanoke to pick up the bike. Thus, my first ride on the bike was from Roanoke to Tampa...in the rain. It did not take long, maybe 200 miles, for me to start to question my sanity. The seat was rock hard, the riding position was 'committed', and the side stand was an accident waiting to happen. On the other hand it was the most beautiful motorcycle I had ever seen. It took me about 4 years to finally fall out of love with the 1000S. Like a red headed nymphomaniac who owns a liquor store, nice to date but not to marry. Now I only have the Stelvio and V7 Special ...OK, also have a R75/6 but she's a hanger queen. I still miss the 1000S and might even make my Special look like one. Damn, that was a pretty bike!
Peter Y.
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They sure are! I ride with this one most months.
Kurt
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g280/tazturtle/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsed672651.jpg) (http://s58.photobucket.com/user/tazturtle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsed672651.jpg.html)
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Hey, everyone,
I'm back after a very long absence.
I was thinking about what Piaggio's motivation is behind
showing the MG V7 II so early.
I was thinking about getting one of the green 2015's but I think I want
6-speeds and the 'extra leg room' (I'll take what I can get). I wouldn't have
thought that way until I saw the new V7 II.
As it is, I'll still probably have to get riser/barbacks for it. My current V7
Classic (2009) causes a pinch in my right shoulder (no, I'm not holding
the throttle too tight) and risers should fix that.
My point is: It seems to me that some potential customers might want to
wait a year or so to get the other bike with the 'extra leg room', the 6-speed
transmission, and the other goodies, so ultimately introducing the new bike
this early might dip into 2015 sales.
Since the bikes are already being produced, I don't know why on Earth Piaggio
makes North America wait a year, since customers like me are choosing to wait
for the 2016 V7 II.
Jim
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If it turns out to be a basic marketing boo boo, then the manager in charge is gonna get a talk to from Vinnie, you know what I mean?
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This shouldn't have to be said to the most of us, but for those who still aren't thinking about it when they complain the Piaggio shows bikes early and makes North America wait let's remember that I believe it is both a pricey and a lengthy process to get EPA and CARB certification. WHY on Earth would they rush that for what turns out to be barely 10% of their world market?
MAYBE if their sales in NA grow and they are looking at more of a return then that will get more attention... then again, maybe not.
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This shouldn't have to be said to the most of us, but for those who still aren't thinking about it when they complain the Piaggio shows bikes early and makes North America wait let's remember that I believe it is both a pricey and a lengthy process to get EPA and CARB certification. WHY on Earth would they rush that for what turns out to be barely 10% of their world market?
MAYBE if their sales in NA grow and they are looking at more of a return then that will get more attention... then again, maybe not.
This. And remember, Europe will have them MUCH earlier then us in the States.
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I don't think its only that Kev. There is also the fact that any problem that occurs is far more likely to become a huge *Issue* in the US than it is in many other markets. Your market is a lot less accepting of any problems that may of been overlooked by during testing while at the same time being populated by many more, proportionally, who are either incapable of or simply choose not to research a purchase.
I'm not defending poorly developed products released before they should be but its that logic that probably means that the companies involved prefer to release their bikes elsewhere and delay their sale in the United States. If the shit hits the fan in say Australia or France it will be less damaging than if there is a huge, public panty-wadding episode in the US. YOMV.
Pete
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I don't think its only that Kev. There is also the fact that any problem that occurs is far more likely to become a huge *Issue* in the US than it is in many other markets. Your market is a lot less accepting of any problems that may of been overlooked by during testing while at the same time being populated by many more, proportionally, who are either incapable of or simply choose not to research a purchase.
I'm not defending poorly developed products released before they should be but its that logic that probably means that the companies involved prefer to release their bikes elsewhere and delay their sale in the United States. If the shit hits the fan in say Australia or France it will be less damaging than if there is a huge, public panty-wadding episode in the US. YOMV.
Pete
I would say not that the population is in any way less capable, just lest tolerant and why should anyone be tolerant?
Not to mention it's not just the distance from the factory, but the dearth of dealers to handle such problems if they should occur.
The EU must certainly have a much more effective dealer network.
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I don't think its only that Kev. There is also the fact that any problem that occurs is far more likely to become a huge *Issue* in the US than it is in many other markets. Your market is a lot less accepting of any problems that may of been overlooked by during testing while at the same time being populated by many more, proportionally, who are either incapable of or simply choose not to research a purchase.
It isn't like Moto Guzzi actually DOES anything about any major problems their bikes have, unless it is a safety recall issue. Take the Breva/Sport 1200 (Norge?) dash problem for example. >:(
Or how 'bout their exploding clutches on early CARC bikes, and, IIRC, other big-block clutches, circa 2000-2006.
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Factory kits will be available for the V7 II (and earlier versions). Cafè Racer, Dark Rider, Heritage and Scrambler. The single elements (90 different pieces) of the kits could be bought separately and mixed.
(http://www.motociclismo.it/cache/gallery/1/1/5/65/V7%20II%20Caf%C3%A9%20Racer.jpg_2000.jpg)
(http://www.motociclismo.it/cache/gallery/1/1/5/65/V7%20II%20Dark%20Rider.jpg_2000.jpg)
(http://www.motociclismo.it/cache/gallery/1/1/5/65/V7%20II%20Heritage.jpg_2000.jpg)
(http://www.motociclismo.it/cache/gallery/1/1/5/65/V7%20II%20Scrambler.jpg_2000.jpg)
http://www.motociclismo.it/moto-guzzi-v7-ii-ecco-come-va-e-arrivano-4-versioni-speciali-moto-60096
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Thanks for the info! ;-T
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Edit: Found link to pics ;D
As for the info, if this is oem stuff, we were just talking about how Guzzi needs to try to do something like this.
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Edit: Found link to pics ;D
I've been told that the location for the pictures is: "somewhere inside the Mandello factory".
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I like that scrambler. Not over done. Looks good. If the front fender was a bit higher, I think it would be fine for riding down some nice fire roads and gravel roads.
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I really like these pipes (sorry if this has been posted previously):
http://www.70tre.it/kit_guzzi_scrambler_v70tre
Rich A
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Really like the scrambler, great job! Like the pictures of the shop they work in also.
(http://www.motociclismo.it/cache/gallery/1/1/5/65/V7%20II%20Scrambler.jpg_2000.jpg)
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I don't think its only that Kev. There is also the fact that any problem that occurs is far more likely to become a huge *Issue* in the US than it is in many other markets. Your market is a lot less accepting of any problems that may of been overlooked by during testing while at the same time being populated by many more, proportionally, who are either incapable of or simply choose not to research a purchase.
I'm not defending poorly developed products released before they should be but its that logic that probably means that the companies involved prefer to release their bikes elsewhere and delay their sale in the United States. If the shit hits the fan in say Australia or France it will be less damaging than if there is a huge, public panty-wadding episode in the US. YOMV.
Pete
I ran into that mindset on my purchase of the 1190 KTM, WOW, there was a bunch of people thought the sky was falling. KTM did have a few problems with the 2013 model but the addressed them and fixed, but people still today think it is not fixed. Tough to overcome internet noise when they get their stuff in a wad!
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What kind of tires are they promoting for this kit?
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Cycle World first ride. Do they mean it will be here in the spring 2015, or spring 2016?
http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/11/19/2016-moto-guzzi-v7-ii-stone-special-and-racer-motorcycle-review-first-ride-photos/ (http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/11/19/2016-moto-guzzi-v7-ii-stone-special-and-racer-motorcycle-review-first-ride-photos/)
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Cycle World first ride. Do they mean it will be here in the spring 2015, or spring 2016?
http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/11/19/2016-moto-guzzi-v7-ii-stone-special-and-racer-motorcycle-review-first-ride-photos/ (http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/11/19/2016-moto-guzzi-v7-ii-stone-special-and-racer-motorcycle-review-first-ride-photos/)
Says late spring of 2015 in the US, but considered a 2016 model
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I think I'm buying a scrambler model in June/July next year. That's the plan as of now. Is the current V7 a 50-state bike, emissions legal in CA?
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Says late spring of 2015 in the US, but considered a 2016 model
That's the way I read it: Late Spring 2015 as a 2016 model...
"Look for the new Moto Guzzi V7 II to arrive in the US late next spring, as a 2016 model. "
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Is the current V7 a 50-state bike, emissions legal in CA?
YES
That's the way I read it: Late Spring 2015 as a 2016 model...
"Look for the new Moto Guzzi V7 II to arrive in the US late next spring, as a 2016 model. "
Sounds about right and maybe that means they ARE getting faster about US intros.
IIRC my 2013 Stone arrived in December of 2012, now how long was it out in the EU before that? Surely not a full year?
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YES
Thanks Kevm, I'm looking to buy one in June of 2015 in Omaha and ride it back to CA. My brother-in-law is thinking KLR 650, and, I was considering one as well but I don't want a thumper and I love MG. We are planning to do fire roads and two-track but nothing very aggressive dirt-wise. I would outfit the V7II Scrambler as much as possible for fire roads/dirt and turn it into a mini-Stelvio as much as it can be.
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YES
Sounds about right and maybe that means they ARE getting faster about US intros.
IIRC my 2013 Stone arrived in December of 2012, now how long was it out in the EU before that? Surely not a full year?
I *believe* those Stones had been out in the EU for about a year prior to us getting them. I was in the market for one at the time but didn't want one of the "V7 Classics". I wanted the Black Stone, and found plenty of pics online, but couldn't get one here.
I'm taking the article's information with a grain of salt. I'd LOVE to have those here by late next Spring, but I haven't heard anything like that from Piaggio yet. I wonder if he was told that time frame specifically or if he was making assumptions.
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I wonder how long the V7 Racer will only be available in black and chrome?
The traditional lime green (including tank) would look good on that bike.
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I *believe* those Stones had been out in the EU for about a year prior to us getting them. I was in the market for one at the time but didn't want one of the "V7 Classics". I wanted the Black Stone, and found plenty of pics online, but couldn't get one here.
I'm taking the article's information with a grain of salt. I'd LOVE to have those here by late next Spring, but I haven't heard anything like that from Piaggio yet. I wonder if he was told that time frame specifically or if he was making assumptions.
My memory is fuzzy on this already ( ::( ) but I SEEM to recall them being introduced as 2012 models in the EU, but was it a FULL YEAR from when they were introduced (was it 2011 EICMA or something like that?) until we received them?
Again, I got my 2013 M/Y in December of 2012, so that would mean they would have had to have been out in the EU by December of 2011 (as m/y 2012) for it to have been a full year?
I'm thinking the Cali 1400 made it here in less than a year too.
Either way, if the V7II was just announced and they honestly will be here by late spring (early summer?) 2015 that is quicker still and may be part of a trend towards quicker availability in the US, which is something people here bitch about PiaggioNA so that could be a good thing.
Always looking for the positive in these things.
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That's the way I read it: Late Spring 2015 as a 2016 model...
"Look for the new Moto Guzzi V7 II to arrive in the US late next spring, as a 2016 model. "
That's what the article states, but I don't know how reliable it is. My Guzzi dealer spoke to the US Guzzi distributor just after the V7 II models were announced in late September, and was told not to expect them to reach the US until late 2015, i.e., November. I hope the article's right and the US distributor is wrong, or that the information has changed. I'd like to get one next spring.
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I wonder how difficult it would be to adapt the Stelvio fork and front wheel to the V7II Scrambler. There are a lot more dual-sport dirt tires in the 19" wheel size compared to the V7II 18" front wheel. The larger forks and perhaps a bit more travel would benefit the V7II Scrambler and help to differentiate it from the street oriented versions and upside down forks are nice in the dirt. That might have real value for the Scrambler and not just be "lipstick on a pig" changes. For trail work a 19" tire is better than 18" and Guzzi already makes the parts and could benefit from economy of scale.
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(http://www.motociclismo.it/cache/gallery/1/1/5/65/V7%20II%20Heritage.jpg_2000.jpg)
This one near the mark for me, bags and box look good, obviously bags are slightly too far rear mounted to be right but on the money for sure.
Pipes look interesting,hope they're not just the burn your girls legs "scrambler" ones, could be a proper 2-1, any pics of other side ?
Suspension upgrade has to come but isn't front that's a problem, don't know if V50 swingingarm/drive box/UJ could ever give much more travel, they'll redisgn the lot methinks, hopefully with 2 sides to swingingarm.
For now it appears to be an HD "book of farkle parts" but potential is there for a genuine long distance mid capacity traveller when /if they do suspension.
Ducati Scrambler looks nearer to it right now but immediately flawed by tiny tank, cross these 2 (with leather bags) and there's me.
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It was the 2014 Special in the new colors that really peaked my interest in the line. When they were announced, NO ONE could tell me when or if they'd ever make it to our shores. Next thing you know they were popping up in early Spring of '14. Ended up buying mine in April.
I just don't see the '16 models making it here in Spring of '15. The '15's (no change-new Stone colors) hit the US earlier this fall, and there are still '15 models on the floor now.
But honestly, who the hell knows.
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It was the 2014 Special in the new colors that really peaked my interest in the line. When they were announced, NO ONE could tell me when or if they'd ever make it to our shores. Next thing you know they were popping up in early Spring of '14. Ended up buying mine in April.
I just don't see the '16 models making it here in Spring of '15. The '15's (no change-new Stone colors) hit the US earlier this fall, and there are still '15 models on the floor now.
But honestly, who the hell knows.
I almost remember when I used to be able to remember stuff... :BEER:
I should search my old posts... was my Stone originally SUPPOSED to arrive in the fall, but finally showed up in winter? If that's the case it doesn't bode well.
But I remain an eternal optimist.
Still I wouldn't plan a summer bike trip on a new V7II this coming year.
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It was the 2014 Special in the new colors that really peaked my interest in the line. When they were announced, NO ONE could tell me when or if they'd ever make it to our shores. Next thing you know they were popping up in early Spring of '14. Ended up buying mine in April.
I just don't see the '16 models making it here in Spring of '15. The '15's (no change-new Stone colors) hit the US earlier this fall, and there are still '15 models on the floor now.
But honestly, who the hell knows.
Actually, there IS one significant mechanical change: the '15's have wet alternators. I've compared the parts books for the '15's and '13-'14's and that seems to be the only difference.
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I almost remember when I used to be able to remember stuff... :BEER:
I should search my old posts... was my Stone originally SUPPOSED to arrive in the fall, but finally showed up in winter? If that's the case it doesn't bode well.
That is the way I remember it too.
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Actually, there IS one significant mechanical change: the '15's have wet alternators. I've compared the parts books for the '15's and '13-'14's and that seems to be the only difference.
Maybe they have more electrical output, good for heated gear. Of course, I've never had charging problems with either of my V7's while running heated gear. Though, the headlight brightness would go up and a down with the cycling of the heat controller, I'd certainly welcome more alternator output.
I'm thinking that the primary reason for the change to the wet alternator, is because it is a higher output alternator (which needs more cooling) to provide power for the ABS that is coming on the V7II.
I, for one, and looking forward to the V7III with its 65 HP motor (dreaming)!
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I, for one, and looking forward to the V7III with its 65 HP motor (dreaming)!
:food
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Maybe they have more electrical output, good for heated gear. Of course, I've never had charging problems with either of my V7's while running heated gear. Though, the headlight brightness would go up and a down with the cycling of the heat controller, I'd certainly welcome more alternator output.
I'm thinking that the primary reason for the change to the wet alternator, is because it is a higher output alternator (which needs more cooling) to provide power for the ABS that is coming on the V7II.
That was the speculation we all threw around a year ago when it was announced. Not sure if anyone ever looked further into it...
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This one near the mark for me, bags and box look good, obviously bags are slightly too far rear mounted to be right but on the money for sure.
Pipes look interesting,hope they're not just the burn your girls legs "scrambler" ones, could be a proper 2-1, any pics of other side ?
In other pictures, that bike is shown to have the scrambler exhaust. There is only one pannier, the one shown on the left.
http://www.garagemotoguzzi.com/it/stile/legend/
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65 HP would be fun but the HD 883 has 39 HP + 150 more pounds
I've ridden "with" HD riders on my V7 and it does annoy them when I pass them
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There is a pretty flattering "first ride" article about the V7II in the new issue of Cycle World. It seems that at least one enlightened staff writer has put aside his/her horsepower obsession and recorded an appreciation of the bike's balance and overall goodness. The repositioned engine and lowered foot pegs seem like cool refinements. I like the glossy red paint on the Stone, too...
http://touch.cycleworld.com/all/136199#1
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They must heard all of our mumbling.
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Article says it will arrive in US late next spring. Isn't that much earlier than previous info?
Paul Emerson
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It's too bad they didn't improve the suspension, sounds like it made the traction control work overtime. Overall tho' a positive review and while I won't be trading in my V7 for a V7II, I can see where those who were on sidelines might now take the plunge.
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Cue the thread merge
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Article says it will arrive in US late next spring. Isn't that much earlier than previous info?
Paul Emerson
That's what the article indicates, but is it true? My Guzzi dealer spoke with the US importer shortly after the initial announcement of the V7 II series back in September, and was told not to expect them to come to the US until November 2015. Hopefully, that information was incorrect or has been changed. Maybe MG USA has been reading this web site, sees the enthusiasm expressed here, and has changed the import schedule. Or, maybe they're not selling as well as expected in Europe, so there are more available to export to the US.
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I find it interesting how Moto Guzzi is really pushing (promoting) the V7 product and accessories!
The marketing to new younger riders is very important and this story on a Italian Industrial Design School project involving the Moto Guzzi V7 is fitting.
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&tl=en&u=http://www.moto.it/news/moto-it-porta-moto-guzzi-v7-allo-ied-per-le-tesi-di-laurea-2015.html&usg=ALkJrhj1beNbGx19LuG0wmQPJ1dCpWn-bw
From the translated link:
"The graduating students will be free to interpret as they see fit V7. They will be able to customize the bike or bring accessories in style. The approach can be aesthetic, functional or historical. Through their work will be interesting to evaluate trends in youth, that is, close to the experience of the students.
The learning process does not lead only to the creation of a special bike, but will review the project V7 to conduct a full customization or to create a unique accessory. The pupils of the European Institute of Design to decide, followed by Professor Sergio Mori, rapporteur for this initiative."
It will be interesting to see what they come up with.
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Actually, there IS one significant mechanical change: the '15's have wet alternators. I've compared the parts books for the '15's and '13-'14's and that seems to be the only difference.
I noted the change to a wet alternator too. Didn't BMW change to a wet alternator a few years ago? I can't recall all the improvements that was supposed to bring.
I'm sure these improvements are good, but it seems that every improvement just makes it harder to do service.
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Are you guys 100% certain that the 2015's HAVE the wet alternator? I know it's shown in the press photos, but it was also on brochure photos for the '14's. In reality they were delivered with the same dry one. The difference is evident by looking at the cover up front.
Someone show me a photo of a '15 on a dealer floor or your garage with the new alternator and I'll send you a cookie.
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Are you guys 100% certain that the 2015's HAVE the wet alternator? I know it's shown in the press photos, but it was also on brochure photos for the '14's. In reality they were delivered with the same dry one. The difference is evident by looking at the cover up front.
Someone show me a photo of a '15 on a dealer floor or your garage with the new alternator and I'll send you a cookie.
The '15 V7 Special sitting on the showroom floor of my dealer definitely has the wet alternator. I don't have a pic, but if I really get hungry for the cookie, I'll drive down and snap one. Part of the confusion arises because of the way the model years are defined. For example, the V7 II bikes are considered to be 2015 models in Europe but they'll be marketed as 2016 models in the US, when they arrive. (At least, that was the plan when my dealer was told by the importer that they'd arrive in November 2015; if they do arrive earlier, they might well be marketed as 2015 models instead.)
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in the more things change the more they stay the same
I bought my 02 white stone in Sept of 2001 and i think it had been at the dealers since early august that year.
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More hp! Seriously, just ten more ponies. Please.
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BESIDES putting the rear wheel in gear and turning it to find TDC (next to impossible by yourself), how will that be done with a "wet" alternator?
I've always just popped off the cover and used a wrench to slowly turn the engine and find TDC to adjust the valves.
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BESIDES putting the rear wheel in gear and turning it to find TDC (next to impossible by yourself)
Um. That's the way I do it on all my bikes... By myself...
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Um. That's the way I do it on all my bikes... By myself...
:+1
I do remove the spark plugs, which makes it easier.
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More hp! Seriously, just ten more ponies. Please.
If that's a really big deal;
http://www.guzzipower.com/store/V7bigbore.html
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Mellow music is required when making mechanical operations during tuning!
Somewhere in the manual, I think. ;)
http://www.motoguzzioriginals.com/moto-guzzi-x-warner-bros-records-playlist-december-5-2012/
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BESIDES putting the rear wheel in gear and turning it to find TDC (next to impossible by yourself), how will that be done with a "wet" alternator?
I've always just popped off the cover and used a wrench to slowly turn the engine and find TDC to adjust the valves.
With the wet alternator, it will be necessary to get the rear wheel off the ground to adjust the valves (with spark plugs removed, of course). If you don't want to install a center stand (expensive and extra weight to haul around wherever you ride), you'll need a rear paddock stand or a jack, together with a front wheel chock to keep the bike upright. I opted for the latter route. A decent, inexpensive jack can be found at: http://www.ebay.com/itm/130972659945?item=130972659945&viewitem=&vxp=mtr
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Um. That's the way I do it on all my bikes... By myself...
You must have long orangutan arms! That explains the comfort on your 1100 Sport!
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You must have long orangutan arms! That explains the comfort on your 1100 Sport!
:D
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/auteurs_production/images/film/every-which-way-but-loose/w448/every-which-way-but-loose.jpg?1289442045)
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Ha Ha! Thats a hairy red neck! ;-T
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Ha Ha! Thats a hairy red neck! ;-T
Penderic, looks like Jay beat you to the punch (finger). You're slippin' man!
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Ha Ha! Yes, but I was using my thumb! :D
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:+1
I do remove the spark plugs, which makes it easier.
Which way? Rear wheel?
Seriously?
On your Breva there's an access cover that pops off, you'll find tdc marks on the but and motor there in sharpie.
On the SB I just pull the 4 bolts on that front cover.
I hate using the rear wheel, too clumsy.
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With the wet alternator, it will be necessary to get the rear wheel off the ground to adjust the valves (with spark plugs removed, of course). If you don't want to install a center stand (expensive and extra weight to haul around wherever you ride)
I LOVE having a centerstand. I don't get that objection.
It weighs what, 5#? The unladen V7 weighs in the 440# range. Another 5# is almost meaningless.
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Which way? Rear wheel?
Seriously?
On your Breva there's an access cover that pops off, you'll find tdc marks on the but and motor there in sharpie.
On the SB I just pull the 4 bolts on that front cover.
I hate using the rear wheel, too clumsy.
Yes the point is Kev you can't do that with the wet alternator models.
Really though if it's enough of an issue to put you off buying the bike the answer is simple. Don't buy one! Problem solved.
The wet alternator models are already here in Oz. I sold one last week and while it hasn't arrived yet I'm sure it will be a wet alt vehicle. I can take pics as I PD it if people want?
Pete
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Yes the point is Kev you can't do that with the wet alternator models.
Really though if it's enough of an issue to put you off buying the bike the answer is simple. Don't buy one! Problem solved.
The wet alternator models are already here in Oz. I sold one last week and while it hasn't arrived yet I'm sure it will be a wet alt vehicle. I can take pics as I PD it if people want?
Pete
No I was literally just talking to my little bro about his two current Guzzis and my current.
Obviously if I get a wet alternator in the future I'll have to adapt. No big deal, I'll get over most anything, IF I HAVE TO. ;D
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Which way? Rear wheel?
I hate using the rear wheel, too clumsy.
It's a universal method. I've got many different bikes, several of which you'd have to pull covers that contain oil.
It's not too bad to do if you put it in high gear.
I used to do this with BMW cars back when I had them with solid valve trains. I'd just push the car to turn the engine (again, in high gear).
Some of them, it was tough to get a wrench on the crank w/o removing the fan.
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I know it's a solid way to do it, had to on my Stornello. I prefer not to if I can get a wrench on the crank.
Guess I got my answer, looks like the only option on the new wet alternators.
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I'll get over most anything, IF I HAVE TO. ;D
:D :D :D :D
:BEER:
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I know it's a solid way to do it, had to on my Stornello. I prefer not to if I can get a wrench on the crank.
Exactly... Not a big deal, just a preference. Like I'll take Chorizo over Pepperoni, but Pepperoni will do in a pinch.
Oh yeah, I'm hungry....
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It's a universal method. I've got many different bikes, several of which you'd have to pull covers that contain oil.
I know this, I'm just saying it couldn't be easier on the Breva 1100 to just pop the cover off that snaps in place and, like I said, I even made timing marks for you.
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Exactly... Not a big deal, just a preference. Like I'll take Chorizo over Pepperoni, but Pepperoni will do in a pinch.
Oh yeah, I'm hungry....
:food
I know this, I'm just saying it couldn't be easier on the Breva 1100 to just pop the cover off that snaps in place and, like I said, I even made timing marks for you.
OK, OK, I'll use them next time. ;-T
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I plan to buy a new bike, and ABS is one of my requirements.
I'll be going to the New York Motorcycle Show on 12 December where I'll be able to check out, and indeed order, either of two of the three bikes that I'm considering (the Triumph Street Triple and the new Ducati Scrambler).
I won't be able to even see the third bike in which I'm interested. Neither Moto Guzzi nor any of its dealers will be at the show, and there is no information on when the V7 II with ABS will be available in the U.S. and/or Canada.
It would be very helpful if Moto Guzzi would say something before 12 December about when its V7 II bikes will be available in the US and Canada and at what prices.
If they don't, I think that there's a pretty good likelihood that Ducati will take most of Moto Guzzi's potential 2015 V7 sales, and that this could continue, and indeed escalate, into 2016.
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Yeah , well , we wouldn't want Guzzi to get overwhelmed with orders ::) :D
Dusty
The Manhattan Ducati/Triumph dealer expects to have the Ducati Scrambler in the shop the night before the show, and it increasingly looks like Ducati has an international home run on its hands.
Moto Guzzi (including its New York dealer) is not only not at the show, but it has said nothing about when its ABS bikes will be available in North America.
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Moto Guzzi (including its New York dealer) is not only not at the show, but it has said nothing about when its ABS bikes will be available in North America.
There have been two different estimates of V7-II availability in the USA:
-Late Spring 2015 as a 2016 model. (reported in a magazine first ride article)
-Fall 2015 as a 2016 model. (several members report being told this by dealer employees)
Me, personally, I believe it will be available in The USA in the Fall of 2015 as a 2016 model. Same as just about every other intro since Piaggio has been running the show.
You're kidding yourself if you think it will beat the Ducati Scrambler to market in 2015.
Enjoy your new Ducati.
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There have been two different estimates of V7-II availability in the USA:
-Late Spring 2015 as a 2016 model. (reported in a magazine first ride article)
-Fall 2015 as a 2016 model. (several members report being told this by dealer employees)
Me, personally, I believe it will be available in The USA in the Fall of 2015 as a 2016 model. Same as just about every other intro since Piaggio has been running the show.
You're kidding yourself if you think it will beat the Ducati Scrambler to market in 2015.
Enjoy your new Ducati.
If Moto Guzzi says by 12 December that it will deliver an ABS bike in North America this spring, even late spring, I'm in.
Failing that, yes I'm likely to buy the Ducati. And a lot of other people who might buy the Guzzi are also likely to buy the Ducati.
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Why is Dec 12 your line in the sand? What would happen if you found out Dec 19th, that Guzzi planned to have the bikes in stores by May?
The bikes will be here sometime between April and September. Your going to buy the Duc anyway, why jump up and down about Guzzi?
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Why is Dec 12 your line in the sand? What would happen if you found out Dec 19th, that Guzzi planned to have the bikes in stores by May?
The bikes will be here sometime between April and September. Your going to buy the Duc anyway, why jump up and down about Guzzi?
As I said earlier, I am inclined to buy a Guzzi V7.
But it seems to me that if Piaggio/Moto Guzzi wants to compete with the Ducati Scrambler, at least in North America, it has to say so very soon, failing which it seems to me that it is going to cede most of its V7 North American audience to Ducati.
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Why don't you send them an email and ask? I did that a couple years back asking about availability of then new 8v Norge. I received a reply back within a couple days.
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If Moto Guzzi says by 12 December that it will deliver an ABS bike in North America this spring, even late spring, I'm in.
Failing that, yes I'm likely to buy the Ducati. And a lot of other people who might buy the Guzzi are also likely to buy the Ducati.
Over the last 20 years, Guzzi has built next year's USA bikes in the last quarter of this year. There have been a few exceptions, such as the California 1400, but it's pretty normal to see build dates for USA Guzzis to be in the last quarter of the year. October/November/December. That's been what I've seen on the last four or five Guzzis I've owned. I've had a few that were built in the same year as the model year.
Things at Guzzi are as good as they've ever been.
Though some sales might be lost to Ducati over the Scrambler because the V7-II will arrive months later, the real reason Guzzi's V7 will lose sales to the Ducati has to do with horsepower. Sorry. That's the truth. And, Guzzi will not have a horsepower remedy for another year, at least.
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...
Though some sales might be lost to Ducati over the Scrambler because the V7-II will arrive months later, the real reason Guzzi's V7 will lose sales to the Ducati has to do with horsepower. Sorry. That's the truth. And, Guzzi will not have a horsepower remedy for another year, at least.
Yes, the 25 hp difference is something that buyers like me have to take into consideration, but I would have preferred to work through how I feel about both bikes instead of being in a situation where only the Ducati bike, if one wants ABS, is competitive in North America.
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Yes, the 25 hp difference is something that buyers like me have to take into consideration, but I would have preferred to work through how I feel about both bikes instead of being in a situation where only the Ducati bike, in North America, is competitive.
I'm not sure I really understand your quandary. If you want to know what a V7 feels like, go ride one. The -II has upgrades that are nice, but the bike will not be dramatically different to ride from the current bikes. It's not like you'll be testing the ABS on your test ride.
-New lower frame rails that rotate the engine forward and slightly lower the footpegs.
-ABS
-a 6th gear.
Have you ridden a current V7 Stone/Special/Racer?
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I'm not sure I really understand your quandary. If you want to know what a V7 feels like, go ride one. The -II has upgrades that are nice, but the bike will not be dramatically different to ride from the current bikes. It's not like you'll be testing the ABS on your test ride.
-New lower frame rails that rotate the engine forward and slightly lower the footpegs.
-ABS
-a 6th gear.
Have you ridden a current V7 Stone/Special/Racer?
What's not to understand?
I consider ABS as essential.
Yes, I'd buy a V7 if I could get a delivery date, but Piaggio is not prepared to provide one.
Ducati (and for that matter Triumph) will provide a delivery date.
And yes, I'd like to see how what I understand to be changes to the V7 II impact how someone of my height seats the bike.
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What's not to understand?
I consider ABS as essential.
Yes, I'd buy a V7 if I could get a delivery date, but Piaggio is not prepared to provide one.
Ducati will provide a delivery date.
You missed my point, which was go ride a current V7 Stone/Special/Racer. See if it's even in the ballpark of something you'd like to ride.
You may be able to rule it out quickly if you don't like the bike's personality or feel. Or, you may love it, thus making the wait for the ABS version worth it...
You will not be testing the ABS on a dealership test ride. You don't have to test ride an ABS equipped bike to know if you'll like the bike...
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You missed my point, which was go ride a current V7 Stone/Special/Racer. See if it's even in the ballpark of something you'd like to ride.
You may be able to rule it out quickly if you don't like the bike's personality or feel. Or, you may love it, thus making the wait for the ABS version worth it...
You will not be testing the ABS on a dealership test ride. You don't have to test ride an ABS equipped bike to know if you'll like the bike...
Excuse me? Sorry, but you have made a hugely erroneous assumption. I've ridden the bike, both in North America and Italy, where I spend a good deal of time.
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Excuse me? Sorry, but you have made a hugely erroneous assumption. I've ridden the bike, both in North America and Italy, where I spend a good deal of time.
Did you like it?
What things about the V7 did you not like? (other than the lack of ABS)
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Did you like it?
What things about the V7 did you not like? (other than the lack of ABS)
I think that I need to make myself clear, although I thought that I had already done so.
If Moto Guzzi said that an ABS V7 was available in North America tomorrow, I'd buy one.
Moto Guzzi is not only not saying that, it is not saying anything about when its ABS version will be available.
Meanwhile, Ducati is on top of both the styling issue and the ABS issue, and on the face of it is going to kill Moto Guzzi V7 sales in North America (and probably elsewhere) over the next year.
I think that Moto Guzzi V7 sales are dead in North America until the company deals with the
Scrambler and, in particular, offers ABS.
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I think that I need to make myself clear, although I thought that I had already done so.
If Moto Guzzi said that an ABS V7 was available in North America tomorrow, I'd buy one.
Moto Guzzi is not only not saying that, it is not saying anything about when its ABS version will be available.
Meanwhile, Ducati is on top of both the styling issue and the ABS issue, and on the face of it is going to kill Moto Guzzi V7 sales in North America (and probably elsewhere) over the next year.
For sure, Moto Guzzi V7 sales are dead in North America until the company deals with the
Scrambler and, in particular, offers ABS.
For sure, you have no flipping idea what you're going on about! What a waste of band width.
The 2015 V7-II will not be available in the USA. The V7-II will be available in the USA sometime in mid- to late-2015 as a 2016 model.
Go wave your Scrambler flag at Ducati.ms
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For sure, you have no flipping idea what you're going on about! What a waste of band width.
The 2015 V7-II will not be available in the USA. The V7-II will be available in the USA sometime in mid- to late-2015 as a 2016 model.
Go wave your Scrambler flag at Ducati.ms
Actually, I do know. Among other things, I know that the projection for the Moto Guzzi V7s in North America is as unclear as your own post says,
Lord knows why your response would be "Go wave your Scrambler flag at Ducati.ms".
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For sure, you have no flipping idea what you're going on about! What a waste of band width.
The 2015 V7-II will not be available in the USA. The V7-II will be available in the USA sometime in mid- to late-2015 as a 2016 model.
Go wave your Scrambler flag at Ducati.ms
Just discovered that you have decided, as a moderator of this forum, to overtly attack me on everything that I have said on this site.
I've got the message.
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Meanwhile, Ducati is on top of both the styling issue and the ABS issue, and on the face of it is going to kill Moto Guzzi V7 sales in North America (and probably elsewhere) over the next year.
I think that Moto Guzzi V7 sales are dead in North America until the company deals with the
Scrambler and, in particular, offers ABS.
I also want a scrambler. I was high on the Ducati Scrambler until I saw it in person Nov 1st at the San Mateo Motorcycle show. It looked cheap and plastic to me. It convinced me to look elsewhere. I had high hopes for it as it meets the power, performance and cost targets. I "think" I'd rather have the MG Scrambler but I won't know for sure until I see one in person.
Not everyone who wants a V7 wants a Scrambler. Maybe part of MG's strategy is to be vague intentionally to *NOT* kill V7 sales in the US. Yea, you could wait to buy a new V7II but, if you don't want to wait 9 months, you can buy a current V7.
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I also want a scrambler. I was high on the Ducati Scrambler until I saw it in person Nov 1st at the San Mateo Motorcycle show. It looked cheap and plastic to me. It convinced me to look elsewhere. I had high hopes for it as it meets the power, performance and cost targets. I "think" I'd rather have the MG Scrambler but I won't know for sure until I see one in person.
Not everyone who wants a V7 wants a Scrambler. Maybe part of MG's strategy is to be vague intentionally to *NOT* kill V7 sales in the US. Yea, you could wait to buy a new V7II but, if you don't want to wait 9 months, you can buy a current V7.
Hi Demar,
I empathize a lot with where you are coming from but the reality for me is twofold: (a) I want Moto Guzzi to say when its ABS bikes will be available in North America and (b) if it won't, I'll buy someone else's bike.
I think that Moto Guzzi is fully aware of the fact that its sales in North America are dismal and also that Ducati's worldwide public relations campaign behind the Scrambler is going to kill the V7 unless Moto Guzzi responds.
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Hi Demar,
I empathize a lot with where you are coming from but the reality for me is twofold: (a) I want Moto Guzzi to say when its ABS bikes will be available in North America and (b) if it won't, I'll buy someone else's bike.
I think that Moto Guzzi is fully aware of the fact that its sales in North America are dismal and also that Ducati's worldwide public relations campaign behind the Scrambler is going to kill the V7 unless Moto Guzzi responds.
Moto Guzzi really doesn't care about the USA market, get over it.
Dean
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A Ducati Scrambler will not kill the Guzzi V7 any more than the Triumph Scrambler has (not). And I'm confident losing YOU as a buyer will not break Moto Guzzi. Not everyone has an "ABS Scrambler" as a mandatory requirement to ride a motorcycle. I'm perfectly happy with my '14 Special.
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I think that I need to make myself clear, although I thought that I had already done so.
I've been confused this whole thread. :BEER:
If Moto Guzzi said that an ABS V7 was available in North America tomorrow, I'd buy one.
Are you terminally ill? If so, my condolences... otherwise you could *wait* until it's available if the V7II really is the bike you wanted... I would.
Moto Guzzi is not only not saying that, it is not saying anything about when its ABS version will be available.
*cough* Piaggio *cough*...
Meanwhile, Ducati is on top of both the styling issue and the ABS issue, and on the face of it is going to kill Moto Guzzi V7 sales in North America (and probably elsewhere) over the next year.
Style is subjective. I think the Scrambler is possibly one of the worst looking bikes Ducati has recently built... at first I really wanted to like it too. :(
ABS is an issue and a non-issue for some. Like yourself, I would probably be inclined to pick up an ABS bike... as long as you can switch it to off.
I highly doubt the Ducati Scrambler will kill Guzzi sales. People who want bikes from Ducati may already dismiss Guzzi because they are too slow and not in Moto GP...
I think that Moto Guzzi V7 sales are dead in North America until the company deals with the
Scrambler and, in particular, offers ABS.
What you think and what will happen have not proven to be the same thing... perhaps you are right? The fact of the matter is though that Guzzi *is* addressing the Scrambler styling desire, and ABS...
The only thing they haven't done for you is offer a concrete delivery date, and in my world those 6 months or so of uncertainty are not a valid concern... I can wait for the cake I want (V7 II) and pass on the snack offered early (Ducati Scrambler).
Also... I think you simply frustrated Rocker, because his whole point was if you like the V7 you should just get the bike you want... regardless over the vague timeline for release.
Added: Also the Guzzi has some advantages over the Scrambler in some people's eyes... some not all would prefer the Italian bike still made in Italy (Guzzi), or the low maintenance aspects of final drives and exposed cylinder heads (Guzzi)... Or maybe the larger tank? (Guzzi), and potentially more luggage capacity from a stronger and larger frame? (Guzzi)... or the older heritage of the brand (Guzzi)... and on, and on...
-Joe
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I don't understand why the whole f'n world doesn't revolve around ME. I want what I want, when I want it....>:(
</sarcasm>
Wtf? My 3 year old has a better grasp on this than the op.
News flash, it's not all about you.
Yes, Piaggio, isn't clear about US release dates.
Yes, that can be frustrating as a US customer.
Of course we seem to only represent 10-20% of worldwide Guzzi sales, so maybe some of that is understandable, if crappy.
That frustration would be a crappy reason to NOT buy what you want.
Of course if you prefer the Ducati, then no worries, and no reason to bitch.
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(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/fotoguzzi/bridge.jpg)
Duck? or Goose?
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Yeah , well , we wouldn't want Guzzi to get overwhelmed with orders ::) :D
And that's the main reason US introduction of new models is delayed.
The months immediatly preceding and following the launch of a new model are extremely busy for the production line. To dealy part of them means to be able to deal with it with the existing labour force.
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Lots of threads get like this every year when it snows most people in, even happened on hunting forums years ago. People stuck home, can't ride, or whatever they usually do to consume time and energy.
On the ABS point, they are not all the same. Take the R1150GS for instance, it will send you through an intersection with studder bumps, also on gravel and dirt, doesn't work. Super Tenere and KTM, ABS (and TC) works very transparently on dirt or bumps or whatever!
I doubt anyone is going to worry if the ABS works offroad on the V7 II or Scrambler, but if you want to really know then you will have to test ride it. Doesn't take but a minute to get in a gravel area and hit the front brake to find out if the ABS works (stops without locking).
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The current V7 line is a big seller (relatively) for Guzzi, both in the USA and worldwide. It is only reasonable to sell down inventory of the current bikes before bringing in the V7 II. Announcing a delivery date for the new bikes sounds like a great way to screw dealers who have the current bikes on the floor. Guzzi is offering incentives on the V7 right now. When they are mostly gone you will start to see the new stuff, not before. Other than the 6 speed transmission and ABS this is not a huge change to the machine so it should be relatively easy to morph production as needed. I'm very happy with my '13 V7 so, much as I would like ABS, I'm not going to beating up my dealer to chase the V7 II any time soon. As for the Ducati Scrambler, cute bike and hopefully a big success for Ducati. Other than the name there is very little in common between the Monster line and the V7 line. I can't see how sales of one could have an impact on the other. Having owned 4 Ducati' I'm no stranger to the breed and can say that the riding and ownership experience it totally different from that of a Guzzi. Not better, different.
Peter Y.
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Not better, different.
Peter Y.
"Valve clearance check:12,000 km (7,500 m)"
What does that cost?
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I sat on the Ducati Scrambler at the Seattle show, I wouldn't mind having one but as Unkempt pointed out, tank size and maintenance ease make the V7 my choice. I don't mind waiting a little longer for abs and a six speed.
My 2 lira.
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What Dusty, Rocker and Kev said.... :BEER:
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"No dam you, Piaggio must kneel before I" :D :D ;)
Seriously though, CycleWorld says they will be here in late spring, what more do you want?
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*
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O K just to drift a bit and bring back some civility, how does Piaggio expect to build a brand when they don't attend any shows? No presence in Seattle, no appearance in New York? Are we a secret cult? :BEER:
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Lots of threads get like this every year when it snows most people in, even happened on hunting forums years ago. People stuck home, can't ride, or whatever they usually do to consume time and energy.
Well, there's a little something else going on too.
I think that too many people expect a wide-open forum like this to be some sort of "Mutual Admiration Society", or a "Chowder, Drum, Marching Band and Bugle Corps Society", or something.
If someone has an opinion that is at odds with Peace, Love, and Why Can't We All Live Together, that doesn't seem to go over well. I'm not talking about nasty language, or personal attacks, or racism or any kind of -ism. I'm talking about a poster saying that they don't like the looks of a custom bike, or that a new model Guzzi looks fat and they won't be buying one, or not liking the slipshod way Moto Guzzi sells bikes, or opining that the quality of posted photos is low. When someone expresses such an opinion, THEN the personal attacks start.
"You're stupid!" (although it usually turns out they're not, they just have a different opinion)
"You're lying!" (although I'm not sure how can an "opinion" be a lie?)
"Why don't you go somewhere else?"
"Why are you dragging down the list?"
"Why are you peeing in our big bowl of Cheerios?"
Maybe if we'd discuss the subject at hand, and stay away from comments on the morals and intelligence of someone because their opinion on aesthetics, function, oil, brand of tires, or the synod that their computer belongs to, we'd do a bit better communicating. AND maybe we could not go into a psychotic fit when we find someone with a differing opinion?
I've done bad on that in the past; I'll do my best to stop doing it.
Lannis
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"Valve clearance check:12,000 km (7,500 m)"
What does that cost?
I was staying away from the valve check cost part of the equation but, for me, it is a significant advantage Guzzi has over just about any other marque. I did my own valve checks on the Ducks. Mine were always 2 valve heads. The checks were supposed to be done every 7500 miles or so. That has changed to something like 15K miles on the newest bikes. They are also 4 valve heads so there are lots of small parts to deal with in a very confined space. All that translates into at least $1K for a major service on a Duck. I can do the same checks on either of my Geese in less time than it took to get the Multi stripped down to the point where I could start to check clearances. So far the Stelvio valves have not changed enough to notice but I check them anyway. No shim kits, no valve cover gaskets, no timing belts to change, easy-peasy.
As for why Guzzi ain't at the show, I'm sure it has to do with the high cost of renting the space and being on the tour. Even if you use local dealer personnel there is still a big nut for such a small manufacturer.
Peter Y.
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That 7500 mile quote I posted was from one of the current Monsters taken from the Ducati website.
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On the ABS point, they are not all the same. Take the R1150GS for instance, it will send you through an intersection with studder bumps, also on gravel and dirt, doesn't work. Super Tenere and KTM, ABS (and TC) works very transparently on dirt or bumps or whatever!
I was out in California riding with some hooligans. 2 of us were stopped at a downhill dusty intersection waiting for the rest to catch up, when the guy on a Multistrada almost hit us. :o He said the ABS let go..
I really don't want that kind of stuff. ~;
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I was staying away from the valve check cost part of the equation but, for me, it is a significant advantage Guzzi has over just about any other marque.
Peter Y.
"Any other marque" is right. Now that you've mentioned it, I can't think of a single marque that has valves that are easier to check than a Guzzi. Even on the old Britbikes, you have to pull the gas tank to get to them. And even compared to an old airhead Beemer, the cylinder angle is like it's MADE for your convenience.
The valve checking intervals on my old RD 400 and GT 750 were pretty generous, though, so they get the nod on valves .... ;)
Lannis
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That 7500 mile quote I posted was from one of the current Monsters taken from the Ducati website.
Your note caused me to take a look at the Ducati website, always ready to learn something. Now the 821 and 1200 Monsters show 30,000km valve check interval. That's much more desirable than what I had to deal with on my 2006 Multi. I guess they have gotten the message that maintenance costs really do affect sales. Still, a major service will be very expensive.
Peter Y.
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can't think of a single marque that has valves that are easier to check than a Guzzi.
HD comes to mind, and am I 'sposed to check them on my Buell?
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On the Duc, not sure what the new water cooled monsters have to do with the Scrambler which uses a slightly detuned air cooled 796 motor.
I believe the valve interval on the last 796 (Jay has one) is the same as on our 696, and is the aforementioned 7500 miles.
Costs will vary by dealer, but I've found one independent that has quoted $300 labor plus parts (in guessing another $200 give or take) for valves and belts.
So yes I'd expect the Duc to be a bit more expensive to service, but not horribly so.
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Well...... 2 of the 3 of us are wise and intelligent ;D
Just to be clear , not sure what the bone of contention is here , but the I find myself confused by about half of what happens on WG anyway , so carry on :D
Dusty
Poor Rocker, always the odd man out. ::) ;D
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I was out in California riding with some hooligans. 2 of us were stopped at a downhill dusty intersection waiting for the rest to catch up, when the guy on a Multistrada almost hit us. :o He said the ABS let go..
I really don't want that kind of stuff. ~;
That makes sense to me, my 2010 Multistrada 1200 only had TC as it was the base model, so can't speak on the ABS, but the TC was very abrupt as in would cut one cylinder felt like. Maybe they refined them some since then, don't know.
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Why don't you send them an email and ask? I did that a couple years back asking about availability of then new 8v Norge. I received a reply back within a couple days.
This afternoon, I did exactly that. Will post whatever response I receive.
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Announcing a delivery date for the new bikes sounds like a great way to screw dealers who have the current bikes on the floor. Guzzi is offering incentives on the V7 right now.
Moto Guzzi North America is offering incentives for the V7? Not on their web site. Where?
I think that the great way to screw Moto Guzzi's North American dealers is to announce significant model changes in Europe but fail to say when those changes will be available in North America.
And yes, from a resale perspective ABS and a six speed transmission and apparently better ergonomics for taller riders is significant. I think that these features will reduce the value of pre-2015 (Europe) V7s by $1500 to $2000. I think that it would be plain stupid to buy a new pre-V7 II in North America without a significant discount.
The resale issue is part of the reason why the Ducati Scrambler has to be on the radar of many people considering the V7. At the moment, at least, it looks like it may be a major product for Ducati (evidently intended to be Ducati's biggest introduction since Le Monstre) and a bike that is likely to hold a good deal of its value on resale for at least the next couple of years.
Apples and oranges?
No. The V7 and the Scrambler are both in the retro bike market. As Miguel Galluzzi said in a fairly recent interview, Moto Guzzzi owners are (stylistically) very conservative. So are the people who will be buying the Scrambler.
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If you're interested in resale value don't buy Guzzi. Too small a market in the US.
Then again one could equally argue not to buy new then.
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O K just to drift a bit and bring back some civility, how does Piaggio expect to build a brand when they don't attend any shows? No presence in Seattle, no appearance in New York? Are we a secret cult? :BEER:
Interesting question, one that I asked of Triumph for several years. Yet, they seem to have grown very well despite not doing any US shows for years???
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I was going to bring Triumph up as an example.
Personally I have thought that show was useless for more than a decade.
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Interesting question, one that I asked of Triumph for several years. Yet, they seem to have grown very well despite not doing any US shows for years???
I was going to bring Triumph up as an example.
Personally I have thought that show was useless for more than a decade.
Both Triumph as a manufacturer and the New York City Ducati/Triumph dealer will be at the New York motorcycle show December 12-14.
In addition, the NYC Ducati/Triumph dealer hopes to have certain new bikes, including the new Ducati Scrambler, in its shop the night before the show opens.
Neither Moto Guzzi nor Piaggio's New York City Vespa/Aprilia/Moto Guzzi dealer will be at the show, nor will there be any event during the show at the dealership.
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Moto Guzzi
Established 1921 , going out of business since 1922
This pretty much explains the situation Redge :D
Dusty
Moto Guzzi hasn't been an independent company in almost 50 years. These days, it is a Piaggio marque. If you spend time in Italy, you will mostly know Piaggio as the company that makes the APE three wheel industrial and agricultural vehicles and as a significant maker of scooters.
In the context of the New York motorcycle show, I think that Piaggio is the only significant manufacturer of motorbikes (with the possible exception of some not very well-known Chinese makers) that will not be at the show, neither as a manufacturer nor via its principal New York City area retailers.
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I believe the valve interval on the last 796 (Jay has one) is the same as on our 696, and is the aforementioned 7500 miles.
That is correct. ;-T
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Thought you were being serious until the term "significant manufacturer" ;) :D Is Ural going to have a booth ? ;)
Dusty
Hi Dusty,
Sorry, I assumed (apparently erroneously) that most people here would know the difference in scale between Piaggio and Ural.
If you do a search via Duck Duck Go (or even Google) you'll get up to speed pretty lickety split.
Don't know why two prolific posters on this site would say that Triumph isn't participating in the New York show when in fact it is.
I guess it was an attempt to explain why Moto Guzzi isn't. As in, you're a jerk for asking about Moto Guzzi when Triumph is also out.
Except that Triumph is in.
And so is Ducati.
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Hey Peter, heres an idea - the local dealers could get a few bright shirts that said "I rather sit on a Moto Guzzi!" or "I rather be looking at a Moto Guzzi!" and give them out to some of us guys going to the bike shows. ~; Wear em under your coat to get in and be prepared to be tossed from some booths. P:)
Would be funny to see a show promo video for a competing brand and a guy in the background sitting on a bike with the IWMG* shirt!
*I Want a Moto Guzzi.
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Hi Dusty,
Sorry, I assumed (apparently erroneously) that most people here would know the difference in scale between Piaggio and Ural.
If you do a search via Duck Duck Go (or even Google) you'll get up to speed pretty lickety split.
Oh , thought we were talking about MG , not the current owners of said company . Of course , mention the name Piaggio to the average American , pay close attention now , because you are gonna get a brief flicker of recognition , followed by , "hell , don't they make them fancy coffee pots" ::) Sorry dude , if you want to best someone in general motorbike knowledge , I might not be the one to start with :D
Dusty
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Oh , thought we were talking about MG , not the current owners of said company . Of course , mention the name Piaggio to the average American , pay close attention now , because you are gonna get a brief flicker of recognition , followed by , "hell , don't they make them fancy coffee pots" ::) Sorry dude , if you want to best someone in general motorbike knowledge , I might not be the one to start with :D
Dusty
I haven't got a clue what you are talking about.
"Coffee pots"?
You know, I have a Piaggio bike in Italy, where I spend a good deal of time, that I bought in 2013 from a Piaggio dealer in Sicily who has been working with Piaggio bikes since 1976 and who maintains my bike.
I don't know where to begin with much of what's in this thread. It's so divorced from the reality of owning a Piaggio bike, at least in Italy, that I think that the prudent course is to just bow out.
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I haven't got a clue what you are talking about.
"Coffee pots"?
You know, I have a Piaggio bike in Italy, where I spend a good deal of time, that I bought from a Piaggio dealer in Sicily who has been working with Piaggio bikes since 1976 and who maintains my bike.
I don't know where to begin with much of what's in this thread. It's so divorced from the reality of owning a Piaggio bike, at least in Italy, that I think that the prudent course is to just bow out.
Seems to me the problem here is a lack of geographical knowledge , Italy is a medium sized country that sticks out into the Mediterranean Sea , America is a largish place some 4,200 miles to the West . O course there is Florida, which from space looks a bit like Italy , but is a whole lot flatter . My point is , Italy , and the motorcycle culture there isn't the same as America . Not many scooters here ;D
Dusty
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Seems to me the problem here is a lack of geographical knowledge , Italy is a medium sized country that sticks out into the Mediterranean Sea , America is a largish place some 4,200 miles to the West . O course there is Florida, which from space looks a bit like Italy , but is a whole lot flatter . My point is , Italy , and the motorcycle culture there isn't the same as America . Not many scooters here ;D
Dusty
Huh?
Can't imagine how geography has anything to do with the discussion in this thread.
I say that as someone who spends part of the year in New York, part of it in Europe and part of it in Newfoundland.
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I want a scooter. A 1950's/'60's Moto Guzzi Galletto. They're hard to find here.
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp19/demar39/img6316cy3.jpg)
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I want a scooter. A 1950's/'60's Moto Guzzi Galletto. They're hard to find here.
Go to Sicily for a couple of weeks and look around. You'll find one, probably pretty cheap but also probably needing a lot of work.
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I still believe the US MC shows are relatively insignificant.
I guess it's nice that Triumph is participating again, but they didn't for quite a few years.
I believe their philosophy was they thought it better to put that marketing money into a mobile demo fleet that toured dealers around the country.
Perhaps that philosophy was part of why they, in only a decade or two, have far surpassed MG US (and worldwide) sales.
And perhaps the fact that they have at so much more significant US sales is why they can finally justify spending that kind of money on that show again.
Maybe if Guzzi ever reaches that level (5 figure US sales instead of 3-4 figure) they'll participate too.
I thought it was smarter that with the release of summer other recent models in the US (including the 1TB V7 and the Cali 1400) that they had an official demo program through their dealers. A step in the right direction towards growth and better marketing.
I just don't think it is fair to hold them to the marketing standards of companies with 10's to 100's of thousands more in US sales units.
That's like comparing the ad campaign of your favorite micro brewery to Budweiser.
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I still believe the US MC shows are relatively insignificant.
I guess it's nice that Triumph is participating again, but they didn't for quite a few years.
I believe their philosophy was they thought it better to put that marketing money into a mobile demo fleet that toured dealers around the country.
Perhaps that philosophy was part of why they, in only a decade or two, have far surpassed MG US (and worldwide) sales.
And perhaps the fact that they have at so much more significant US sales is why they can finally justify spending that kind of money on that show again.
Maybe if Guzzi ever reaches that level (5 figure US sales instead of 3-4 figure) they'll participate too.
I thought it was smarter that with the release of summer other recent models in the US (including the 1TB V7 and the Cali 1400) that they had an official demo program through their dealers. A step in the right direction towards growth and better marketing.
I just don't think it is fair to hold them to the marketing standards of companies with 10's to 100's of thousands more in US sales units.
That's like comparing the ad campaign of your favorite micro brewery to Budweiser.
More like comparing a home brewer to Anheuser Busch.
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More like comparing a home brewer to Anheuser Busch.
What these guys are saying. It's horrifically expensive to "do" the show circuit.. probably more than the profit to the US operation. :beat_horse That said, I don't go to the show any more, either. As has been mentioned several times, it has sucked for years. I don't need a doo rag.
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I don't need a doo rag.
In case anyone does, its cheaper to order from Amazon.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/511jCiiy5yL.jpg)
http://www.amazon.com/Motorcycle-Biker-Skull-Caps-Bandanas/dp/B002TW7582/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1417274367&sr=8-2&keywords=motorcycle+doo+rag
Good reviews too.
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Redge, I really wonder if you are for real? You seem to get stuck in on things, and that then prevents you from soaking in what others are trying to tell you.
My advice as stated before, is go get the Duc and stop complaining that Guzzi won't play ball with you. When all is said and done you where never going to by the v7 anyway.
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Isn't the scrambler being built in India? Not that it really matters that much but I prefer my Italian bikes to be built in Italy. I wouldn't be interested in a KTM, Triumph, or Honda built outside its home country strictly for the cheap labor.
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Isn't the scrambler being built in India? Not that it really matters that much but I prefer my Italian bikes to be built in Italy. I wouldn't be interested in a KTM, Triumph, or Honda built outside its home country strictly for the cheap labor.
Yep and here's an inside look at the high tech pin striping department:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsTIMxeO_ng
Thailand is where the Scramblers are being assembled. Soon they will start making small parts in Thailand then shortly after that they will be producing all the parts in Thailand and maybe sending parts to Italy for assembly. Ingersol Rand road machinery division did this in the 90's when they opened their "assembly only" plant in China.
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Isn't the scrambler being built in India? Not that it really matters that much but I prefer my Italian bikes to be built in Italy. I wouldn't be interested in a KTM, Triumph, or Honda built outside its home country strictly for the cheap labor.
Thailand. Ducati has a new plant there.
For quite a few years, now, all the Triumph Bonnevilles have been assembled there. Triumph has a manufacturing facility and an assembly plant in Thailand. Lots of their parts are made there.
I, too, prefer my Guzzis made in Italy. I hope V7 production stays there.
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Yep and here's an inside look at the high tech pin striping department:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsTIMxeO_ng
that guy is smooth!
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Thailand. Ducati has a new plant there.
For quite a few years, now, all the Triumph Bonnevilles have been assembled there. Triumph has a manufacturing facility and an assembly plant in Thailand. Lots of their parts are made there.
Honda also has a plant in Thailand. The CBR300, and other lower priced models are built there.
IIRC, KTM is building the RC390 and Duke 390 in India.
It's a global economy folks, get used it.
Yes, it sucks, esp. for those of us who's jobs are threatened by it. Tech and manufacturing jobs are being lost to low-cost labor markets at an alarming rate......... OK, I'll stop now before I get too political (H1B hi-tech worker VISA's anyone?). OK, I'm stopping. ;-T
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Why should I we get used to it? It sucks, and we do have the ability to change what we consume. Buy American made products whenever possible, even if it means spending a bit more.
Don't buy from Harbor Freight and the like, if you care about American workers.
Ok that's all I'm going to say too.
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I know, but to every rule there is an exception! :D
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Although the Duc puts out 50% more HP it is only 17% up on max torque - and puts that out at literally double the rpm. Much revvier.
So while both Italian scramblers will be a hoot I am sure, they will be quite different in character.
Owning a Guzzi can be a character building experience. The release date issue doesn't even rate on the scale in that department.
Buy the Duc. Or a Honda.
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I know, but to every rule there is an exception! :D
In our little town, a Chinese company is buying the old furniture plant that opened in 1975 and closed in 2011 (competition from China!), and bringing 350 jobs here ... raw materials manufactured into high-tech power-conditioning equipment in the USA by a Chinese company and shipped to China! USA quality control and higher Chinese wages drove it back over here.
Really is global now - hard to tell when it's bad or good sometimes.
Lannis
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I'm still planning on buying a V7II Scrambler next year, a red one, hopefully. Saving the funds now, 2/3 of the way there. ;-T
My 2010 T100 Bonneville was built in Thailand and it's a beautiful bike. There was/is nothing sub-standard about it, except it's not a Guzzi. I was told the tanks are still hand painted in England.
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Although the Duc puts out 50% more HP it is only 17% up on max torque - and puts that out at literally double the rpm. Much revvier.
So while both Italian scramblers will be a hoot I am sure, they will be quite different in character.
Owning a Guzzi can be a character building experience. The release date issue doesn't even rate on the scale in that department.
Buy the Duc. Or a Honda.
This, though I don't typically run around anywhere double the rpm on the 696... It works out to be able about 1k rpm higher most of the time.
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Regarding motorcycle shows:
Not many dealers can justify spending over $1000 per 10'x10' Square on the show floor.
Don't want to be mixed in with the dream catchers, fake arm tattoos and Sons of Anakin T-shirts? You'll need to get a 30x20 "island".
Bringing in a dozen bikes? You'll pay $75 (or more) per bike for "union handling charges".
Have stuff like t-shirts or displays that you want to set up in your booth. That's $75/hour for a union laborer to literally sit on a golf cart and watch you set up your booth.
Pay for tickets for your booth workers (they don't get in for free).
Pay for parking every day for every worker ($10+ including your delivery trucks).
Feed everyone (if you're not a jerk) and the food in those halls is ridiculous.
And spend around $1200 on Fliers and pamphlets people are going to hoard from your booth and put on ebay later.
If you're doing it right you'll spend around $12,000 to attend one 3 day show. If you don't have 24 sales that you can attribute only to that show (not people who would have bought anyway) you're wasting your money and time.
For manufacturers the costs go up dramatically, they have big, complicated booths that take a team of union laborers to assemble, they have big rigs that transport these booths and bikes from show to show ( I think there are 28 IMS shows this year). Most companies simply can't swing the expense. Especially if they think they're not going to pick up an adequate number of sales in that region to make it happen.
I can remember many years where Triumph, BMW, Ural, KTM and others weren't represented at all.
In the years that there was a PUSA booth that contained Vespa, Piaggio, Aprilia and Guzzi I still had my own shop booth, because corporate booths have representatives in the booth from ALL of the dealers in a region, and things can get a little competitive and bitchy in the booth.
As usual (15 years now) we will have a big-ass booth at the Cleveland IMS show. And sometimes I will work the booths for dealers in other cities. These shows do bring in a Ton of prospective customers, unfortunately the quality of the information being given to the folks in the booth may be suspect. I'd rather have Guzzi telling us we don't have an exact date for the importation of the V7II, than to give us a made-up date that people can whinge about. My logic is usually figure a year after it comes out in Italy (to satisfy our EPA testing). Anything earlier is pure optimism.
BTW, I think the Thai made Scrambled Duck looks like crap on a cracker. I'll be very happy when this scrambler fad is over (again). Let's save the knobbies for the actual dirt bikes, and keep those thigh burners down where they belong. Putting on a speedo won't make me an olympic swimmer, it just makes me looks silly.
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now a Sons of Anakin tshirt in a nerdy way appreciate i could .
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Phil hits the nail on the head...The IMS show is not worth what it cost for a small volume marque. Guzzi would have to add $500 to every bike sold in the USA just to recoup the cost of one year's worth of shows. That's dumb.
Peter Y.
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I like the show because it's a good excuse to meet my buddies, have a nice fish-n-chips lunch at a local pub and drink beer while looking at a bunch of bikes. Long live the IMS. ;-T
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Phil hits the nail on the head...The IMS show is not worth what it cost for a small volume marque. Guzzi would have to add $500 to every bike sold in the USA just to recoup the cost of one year's worth of shows. That's dumb.
Peter Y.
Wonder if dealers would list the "show" fees under prep and freight?
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Isn't the scrambler being built in India? Not that it really matters that much but I prefer my Italian bikes to be built in Italy. I wouldn't be interested in a KTM, Triumph, or Honda built outside its home country strictly for the cheap labor.
Thailand. Ducati has a new plant there.
For quite a few years, now, all the Triumph Bonnevilles have been assembled there. Triumph has a manufacturing facility and an assembly plant in Thailand. Lots of their parts are made there.
I, too, prefer my Guzzis made in Italy. I hope V7 production stays there.
BTW, I think the Thai made Scrambled Duck looks like crap on a cracker.
Ducati says that the engine is made in Italy, that it is a re-tuned version of the air-cooled engine used in the 796 Monster (Miguel Galuzzi anyone?) and that the bike will be assembled in Thailand.
But I agree. I would prefer that Caucasians assemble my bike rather than Asians because, you know, white people, especially Italians, are just better at putting bits and bobs together.
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I like the show because it's a good excuse to meet my buddies, have a nice fish-n-chips lunch at a local pub and drink beer while looking at a bunch of bikes. Long live the IMS. ;-T
Have been going to the IMS show in Novi, Michigan for many years now. In fact, the first show I attended actually had a Guzzi dealer there an a beautiful Cal Vin I was able to sit on! This sparked my interest in Moto Guzzi.
As I attended future shows, there was never as much of a Guzzi presence as that first (I think it was 2007 or 08) show. And the show seemed to get smaller and smaller each year as well. Now I have just heard that the Michigan IMS show is No-More.
Sad for us snow bound people as the show provided some Moto-Stimulation in the dead of winter.
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Oh , thought we were talking about MG , not the current owners of said company . Of course , mention the name Piaggio to the average American , pay close attention now , because you are gonna get a brief flicker of recognition , followed by , "hell , don't they make them fancy coffee pots" ::) Sorry dude , if you want to best someone in general motorbike knowledge , I might not be the one to start with :D
Dusty
You aren't showing it.
By the way, the coffee pot is called a Bialetti.
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But I agree. I would prefer that Caucasians assemble my bike rather than Asians because, you know, white people, especially Italians, are just better at putting bits and bobs together.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKjxFJfcrcA
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You aren't showing it.
By the way, the coffee pot is called a Bialetti.
Don't mistake my silliness for a lack of knowledge , some of us just don't need to brag ;D However , if you are throwing down the gauntlet , where would you like to start ? Airhead beemers , old British bangers , Harley Davidson, GP race bikes , old GP race bikes , Scottish trials from the 60s , Supercross , Motocross , AMA flat track , modern or historic , Walter Kaaden and the development of the high performance 2 stroke ? I was making a joke about how Americans wouldn't know what Piaggio builds, sorry you missed it , actually pretty funny ::) Oh , how about we discuss Chiang Jiangs , or Fantics , or Saroleas ? ;)
Dusty
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...if you are throwing down the gauntlet , where would you like to start ?
What gauntlet?
I raised an issue about Moto Guzzi's failure to say when the V7 II will be available in Canada and the U.S., and expressed the view that that failure will have an impact on 2015 V7 sales in North America, and that this will be exacerbated by Ducati's introduction of its Scrambler, and all hell breaks loose.
I get attacked. Ducati gets attacked. Thailand gets attacked. The New York Motorcycle Show gets attacked.
Do you really not see the problem?
Meanwhile, today a guy vents on ADVrider about Moto Guzzi and this forum, and what happens? ADVRider quickly relegates the thread to its basement, but it becomes an issue here that has now resulted in over 30 posts, all of them about you all congratulating yourselves on how wonderful you are. But there are certain posts in that relegated thread that you are all steadfastly ignoring; specifically the ones that suggest that this forum is a hangout for a bunch of cliquey, knowledgeable but snobbish old men. True? Because it's kind of how it comes across. And if it's true, Moto Guzzi is in serious need of a more open, less stuffy, less geriatric forum.
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What gauntlet?
I raised an issue about Moto Guzzi's failure to say when the V7 II will be available in Canada and the U.S., and expressed the view that that failure will have an impact on 2015 V7 sales in North America, and that this will be exacerbated by Ducati's introduction of its Scrambler, and all hell breaks loose.
I get attacked. Ducati gets attacked. Thailand gets attacked. The New York Motorcycle Show gets attacked.
Do you really not see the problem?
Meanwhile, a guy vents on ADVrider about Moto Guzzi and this forum, and what happens? ADVRider quickly relegates the thread to its basement, but it becomes an issue here that has now resulted in over 30 posts, all of them about you all congratulating yourselves on how wonderful you are.
Yeah , but it wasn't me attacking you , just trying to inject some humor . The coffee pot joke was a poke at the general ignorance of American MC owners , not a jab at you . We all get it , Piaggio dropped the ball , so what's new ? Geez , if you're gonna insult Americans in general , and me in particular , make sure we aren't agreeing with you before doing so . This isn't Italy , or even England , maybe this is just a failure to communicate ::)
Dusty
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Yeah , but it wasn't me attacking you , just trying to inject some humor . The coffee pot joke was a poke at the general ignorance of American MC owners , not a jab at you . We all get it , Piaggio dropped the ball , so what's new ? Geez , if you're gonna insult Americans in general , and me in particular , make sure we aren't agreeing with you before doing so . This isn't Italy , or even England , maybe this is just a failure to communicate ::)
Dusty
I have not said a single thing that is insulting toward Americans.
Don't know where you live, but if you're in the New York City area, come on over and we'll share a Bialetti pot of coffee :)
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I have not said a single thing that is insulting toward Americans.
Don't know where you live, but if you're in the New York City area, come on over and we'll share a Bialetti pot of coffee :)
Once again , humor :D Actually , we would probably get along fine face to face , and I love Italian coffee . Unfortunately ,the 1350 miles from Muskogee OK to NYC would make that one expensive pot :D
Oh , just ask anyone that knows me , I'm really pretty easy to get along with , and if they don't agree , there is gonna be trouble ;D How long have you resided in the City ? What a vibrant place ;-T
Dusty
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But I agree. I would prefer that Caucasians assemble my bike rather than Asians because, you know, white people, especially Italians, are just better at putting bits and bobs together.
I'm assuming this was sarcasm, but it reminded me of an old Michael Keaton movie The Dream Team, specifically a half advertisement they come up with at the end.
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Buy the Ducati Scrambler, ride it a few years, and wait to see when the V7 III will debut. I think the V7 II will be modest improvement over the V7, but the V7 III should be even better.
Rich A
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What gauntlet?
I raised an issue about Moto Guzzi's failure to say when the V7 II will be available in Canada and the U.S., and expressed the view that that failure will have an impact on 2015 V7 sales in North America, and that this will be exacerbated by Ducati's introduction of its Scrambler, and all hell breaks loose.
I get attacked. Ducati gets attacked. Thailand gets attacked. The New York Motorcycle Show gets attacked.
Do you really not see the problem?
"Attacked" is an often overused word on the internet.
If you're saying your ideas or complaints were challenged, sure. That's the point of a debate and many (most?) discussions become that, especially on the net.
But Piaggio NA has basically said when it will come to the US the same way they've said every other model for more than a decade. The answer is "next year" and even IF they gave a month only a fool with no awareness of their recent history would believe it.
We answered your concern over V7 sales lost due to uncertainty of release dates and competition from the Ducati on multiple fronts.
A. Sales volume (Guzzi is small enough they don't seem to care, and the Duc may be "a" competitor that some will cross shop, but most will buy one or the other and not think about it).
B. Give US dealers a chance to sell down current inventory.
I've got no problem with Ducati (see signature), or Thailand (coated one of yesterday's turkeys with Thai peanut sauce, and I may buy a new Bonnie one of these days), but I'll admit to emotionally preferring an Italian bike made in Italy, a British bike made in the UK, or an American bike made here... Heck even a JAPanInc. bike made IN Japan. That isn't an attack on Thailand and is hardly unreasonable. I don't see where anyone (maybe I missed it) actually attacked Thailand.
The IMS is not everyone's cup o' tea. Having attended it professionally for a decade I tired of it and realized, like most auto shows there's almost nothing you can't find in showrooms, for free, with less of a crowd.
We also laid out the realities and costs of presenting at such a show and explained why it probably doesn't make sense for MG at this time.
I'm sorry, but you were basically told you had unrealistic expectations by those who better understand the brand and you can't seem to accept it.
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Hi Kev m,
Let me get this straight. I live in Italy for a good part of the year, I'm a Piaggio client, my dealer there has been a Piaggio affiliate for over 30 years and you're telling me that I don't understand Piaggio and its brands.
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Hi Kev m,
Let me get this straight. I live in Italy for a good part of the year, I'm a Piaggio client, my dealer there has been a Piaggio affiliate for over 30 years and you're telling me that I don't understand Piaggio and its brands.
No, I said you don't understand Moto Guzzi and the niche part it plays in the US.
Which is probably true of your 30 year dealer in Italy too.
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No, I said you don't understand Moto Guzzi and the niche part it plays in the US.
I don't give a damn about Moto Guzzi's role in the U.S. market. I just want to know when the V7 II will be available in Canada and the U.S. Shouldn't be a real hard question to answer, and I've sent them an email asking.
Don't know why that leads to personal attacks, repeated assertions by certain people here that amount to telling other people that they are either stupid or don't "understand "the brand, statements about Thailand that are obviously racist and attacks on, of all things, a motorcycle show (including a claim by you that Triumph is not participating, which mostly shows that you don't know what you are talking about).
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But there are certain posts in that relegated thread that you are all steadfastly ignoring; specifically the ones that suggest that this forum is a hangout for a bunch of cliquey, knowledgeable but snobbish old men. True?
Not me. I don't know shit about motorcycles.
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I may buy a new Bonnie one of these days
If you buy one you will like it. The fit and finish is excellent and it's a very good bike for what it is. My 2010 T100 was my "get back into motorcycling" bike. The Stelvio handles better that the T100 FWIW.
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I don't give a damn about Moto Guzzi's role in the U.S. market. I just want to know when the V7 II will be available in Canada and the U.S. Shouldn't be a real hard question to answer, and I've sent them an email asking.
Don't know why that leads to personal attacks, repeated assertions by certain people here that amount to telling other people that they are either stupid or don't "understand "the brand, statements about Thailand that are obviously racist and attacks on, of all things, a motorcycle show (including a claim by you that Triumph is not participating, which mostly shows that you don't know what you are talking about).
:'( <--- you hurt my feelings.
:P look, the only time I remotely attacked you was when I justifiably compared your "redge-centric" attitude to that of a me first toddler.
Not giving a "damn" about the role of MG in the US market either proves the point of those alleged attacks or that you're not listening to the replies which have explained why this small niche player in the market has a history of not being clear about such dates since they are fluid and based on changing factors that are out of their control.
I already answered your supposed personal or racist attack claims.
I also explained that I was talking historically about Triumph and that, because of extensive experience with the show I have no interest in it anymore so WHY would you have expected me to know that Triumph had returned?
If you care to raise a new issue or question I'll do my best to answer or discuss, but rehashing this stuff is a waste of time.
I do honestly think you should buy the Duc for multiple reasons already stated, but to restate:
1. Available MUCH sooner.
2. Guzzi has horrible resale value in the US.
3. NOT mentioned yet, but stronger dealer network.
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Kev m , give your pooter a good whack , what is the "inherent" ? ;D
:D computer? You mean phone with Swype and auto correct. :-[
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Kev m , was only kidding about whacking your pooter ;D
Dusty
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If you buy one you will like it. The fit and finish is excellent and it's a very good bike for what it is. My 2010 T100 was my "get back into motorcycling" bike. The Stelvio handles better that the T100 FWIW.
I'm sure I will eventually.
We've been talking about the possibility for years. And I've liked the many I've ridden.
But I appreciate every testimonial.
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Kev m , was only kidding about whacking your pooter ;D
Dusty
Too late... Hurts now, can't sit... :-\
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Hi Kev m,
You're right. Continued discussion between us is a waste of time.
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Hi Kev m,
You're right. Continued discussion between us is a waste of time.
Glad you recognize that I'm the only one being civil and reasonable here. ;)
Ride safe.
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This has to be one of the biggest Troll threads I've seen on here since Enzo was around. Redge, you're not a professional window washer by any chance are you ?
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:pop
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/bikersdontcry_zps148c988f.jpg)
Well, there goes that notion!
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Glad you recognize that I'm the only one being civil and reasonable here. ;)
Ride safe.
Lord that's childish.
What's wrong with the people who dominate this site?
Attacks on individuals who don't tow the line. Attacks on bikes made by other manufacturers. Attacks on Asian workers. Attacks on motorcycle shows that Piaggio doesn't attend. A self-congratulatory attack on a two-bit forum post on advrider.
Really?
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Well now , probably a good time for a reality check . Let's see , " I prefer my bikes to be assembled by Caucasians" , who said that , was it ................Red ge ? Well golly , yes it was . And who is bitching about Piaggio , why , once again , it is Redge . Geez , this is really getting repetitive fellas .
Dusty
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I forget, what was the question?
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Well now , probably a good time for a reality check . Let's see , " I prefer my bikes to be assembled by Caucasians" , who said that , was it ................Red ge ? Well golly , yes it was .
I am just stunned that you took that literally.
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I am just stunned that you took that literally.
Considering that you took all of my comments literally , I am also stunned :o Really dude , at least be consistent ;)
Dusty
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Considering that you took all of my comments literally , I am also stunned :o Really dude , at least be consistent ;)
Dusty
Dusty, who are you kidding? There are several overtly racist statements in this thread and it is perfectly obvious that I was expressing a problem with that.
The people who run, and participate in, this forum really need to have a serious look in a mirror.
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Can't we all just get along?
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp19/demar39/peeing_in_the_snow-2073.gif)
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Can't we all just get along?
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp19/demar39/peeing_in_the_snow-2073.gif)
I think this thread has already answered that question.
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I think this thread has already answered that question.
I think that you're right. I'm astounded at some of what people say on this site. It's like a throwback to the 50s.
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I forget, what was the question?
This is what led to a bunch of self-appointed Moto Guzzi "experts" to spend four pages going after me, Ducati,Thai workers and the New York motorcycle show:
I plan to buy a new bike, and ABS is one of my requirements.
I'll be going to the New York Motorcycle Show on 12 December where I'll be able to check out, and indeed order, either of two of the three bikes that I'm considering (the Triumph Street Triple and the new Ducati Scrambler).
I won't be able to even see the third bike in which I'm interested. Neither Moto Guzzi nor any of its dealers will be at the show, and there is no information on when the V7 II with ABS will be available in the U.S. and/or Canada.
It would be very helpful if Moto Guzzi would say something before 12 December about when its V7 II bikes will be available in the US and Canada and at what prices.
If they don't, I think that there's a pretty good likelihood that Ducati will take most of Moto Guzzi's potential 2015 V7 sales, and that this could continue, and indeed escalate, into 2016.
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Dusty, who are you kidding? There are several overtly racist statements in this thread and it is perfectly obvious that I was expressing a problem with that.
The people who run, and participate in, this forum really need to have a serious look in a mirror.
Yep , you forgot misogynistic and homophobic also ;) Actually , every time I look in a mirror it cracks :o
Dusty
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The people who run, and participate in, this forum really need to have a serious look in a mirror.
Have you got one handy? You should probably use it.
Your posts have "troll" written all over them.
Your days here are numbered without a positive turn.
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Your days here are numbered without a positive turn.
My days here are over. Will enjoy the New York motorcycle show December 12, will be in Sicily for Christmas and in Paris for New Year's. Enjoy 2015.
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My days here are over. Will enjoy the New York motorcycle show December 12, will be in Sicily for Christmas and in Paris for New Year's. Enjoy 2015.
I don't believe you anymore.
Have fun.
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My days here are over. Will enjoy the New York motorcycle show December 12, will be in Sicily for Christmas and in Paris for New Year's. Enjoy 2015.
BYE!
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In a deep baritone voice, "You get a line, and I'll get pole, will go down to the fishing hole unhu" :D
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This is what led to a bunch of self-appointed Moto Guzzi "experts" to spend four pages going after me, Ducati,Thai workers and the New York motorcycle show:
1 if we have guzzis that makes us experts over those that don't
2 nobody attacked Ducati because most of us like them but if we don't that's not an attack.
3 just because people prefer Italian bikes made in Italy, Brit bikes made in Britain doesn't make us racist or attacking Thai workers
4 motorcycle shows - triumph wasn't at shows for many years, yes the last few they have been but for many years they weren't and just because they are expensive and some people find no value in them is not an attack on them.
5 get over yourself
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Buy the Ducati Scrambler, ride it a few years, and wait to see when the V7 III will debut. I think the V7 II will be modest improvement over the V7, but the V7 III should be even better.
Rich A
I'm waiting for the V7 III for my next Guzzi. I will likely get a Stone or Special for my main commuter at that time.
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I'm waiting for the V7 III for my next Guzzi. I will likely get a Stone or Special for my main commuter at that time.
Why not start another thread and DEMAND Piaggio/Guzzi announce the EXACT date the V7III will be available in the US!
If not, you can always ride your Ducati...
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I'm waiting for the V7 III for my next Guzzi.
I won't be able to wait that long and will probably end up buying a V7II-1/2.
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Me? I'm waiting for a Lemans 7 not a SB with a seven number plate.
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Why not start another thread and DEMAND Piaggio/Guzzi announce the EXACT date the V7III will be available in the US!
If not, you can always ride your Ducati...
Bwa ha ha! Nice! ;D
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I DEMAND that they reintroduce the MGS-01 and give me a free one for demanding it.
...and keeping the faith!
Oh and I want to know exactly when I'll receive it!
Harumph!!!!
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I DEMAND that they reintroduce the MGS-01 and give me a free one for demanding it.
...and keeping the faith!
Oh and I want to know exactly when I'll receive it!
Harumph!!!!
Calm down Charlie Brown, they're working on it!
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I won't be able to wait that long and will probably end up buying a V7II-1/2.
I've already got a V7 I-1/2 Racer, so, I can't wait for the III.
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I plan to wait for the V7 V "Ultima Edizione"? How many are they making and when can I put down a deposit?
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Me? I'm waiting for a Lemans 7 not a SB with a seven number plate.
:+1
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:+1
Yeah, a modern LeMans or Lario is about all I would open my wallet for.. ;D
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I really like what MG are doing with those kits, they make the bikes look amazing.
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Interesting, but I suspect a kit costing several thousand $$$ is going to be a tough sell on an under $10k bike like the V7. But if the bits are available individually some might sell well and give the dealers some profit on the low margin V7s.
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I think they will be available individually. Guzzi would be smart to offer them that way as one could buy a piece or two at a time and have the capability to only buy what is wanted.
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I think the after market guys will make cheaper copies for those of us more frugal!
Someone, with a 3D scanner, will buy the factory OEM parts that are most in demand. ;)
Now, where's my 3D printer at?
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/3dprintgonewrong_zpsfddced64.jpg)
Whoops! ::)
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Very good Penderic. Bike accessories by Lego.
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Interesting, but I suspect a kit costing several thousand $$$ is going to be a tough sell on an under $10k bike like the V7. But if the bits are available individually...
As announced, they are. The components are all street legal, they can be freely mixed to build one's own personal bike, and they are compatible with the older versions of V7.
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I can't imagine the difference in the ABS vs. non ABS kits since they're cosmetics. Am I missing something?
Curious, has anyone has seen any prices on these?
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Deliveries of V7 II have begun (in Italy).
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/45937945/IMAG4827_1.jpg)
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So what is the source of that photo? Are they in the hands of customers?
Looks good, but color matched sidecovers would be better. Still happy with my '14.
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So what is the source of that photo? Are they in the hands of customers?
Anima Guzzista forum. The customer had barely traveled 100 km with the new bike.
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Are the stripes white or silver on that scheme?
If white, it would look good with the white fenders from a Stone! (or that tank would look good on a white Stone).
;-T
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not a fan of the black wheels, panels and mud guards
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Thats nice! Moto Guzzi is perfecting the line. Well done you guys! ;-T
I might have to trade mine for one.
So, what new colors will be out next?
Pearl white? Tri-Color Italian flag? Optional footpegs bars lights?
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Well, that was interesting. My dealer already has the full set of V7 II in stock. Stone, Special, Racer, all are present. Yesterday when I were there to buy a set of hand protectors (it IS cold in Northern Germany) I of course took a look on these bikes. Driving one of them I did not because we had stormy winds with torrential rain.
The first impression: the bikes look more "correct" than the predecessors (and I drive a V7 Stone myself and I love the looks of the bike). The angle of the engine in the frame simply has not longer the weird tilt, the cylinders stuck out now in the correct way. Sitting down on the bike also reveals new impressions: with the feet on the pegs the knee angle is more comfortable, the cylinders are "out of reach". I sat at once more forward-oriented, more "in" the bike.
Moving this bike around (although it must be considered there was no gas in the tank) shows an unusual lightness. Lowering the center of gravity down promises a lot here. The slight top-heaviness (very slight!) seems to be gone.
I must say that with these enhancements the V7 due series is a strong competitor to a lot more bikes than before. Anti-slip and anti-blocking makes the bike more interesting to beginners and people who start biking again, and the rest of the updates are simply correct. The price is higher than before, but by a very low margin.
I look forward to a test ride, even if I will not give away my beloved V7 Stone (in white, with luggage rack and windshield).
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Sounds great! Thanks for the report.
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Like you Fossil, the new bikes are interesting, but I've altered my V7 just to my liking, so I'm not ready to give it up yet.
I will concede that anit-lock braking/traction control is okay, but I don't want to give up the simplicity of air cooling for the engine.
Not sure how I like the oil cooled alternator.
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I could be takes into a second V7... Eventually
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The V7's are Guzzi's best selling 'bikes. Evolution not revolution seems to be working
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where can I find info on the "angle of the engine in the frame" change?
lower center of gravity? really?
Oil cooled alternator? please inform me, I can't find any info on Moto Guzzi's website.
also would like to learn more about the traction control and ABS..
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Jebus Foto, all have been discussed here, in the last week... There was another thread with a photo that changed to show the V7II overlaid with a V7 that shows changes to the engine mounting angle and chassis pitch.
Though some of that was covered in the initial press release.
The wet alternator was LAST YEAR'S news, so much so that Pete has already worked on them (had one in his shop last week).
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Well, that was interesting. My dealer already has the full set of V7 II in stock. Stone, Special, Racer, all are present. Yesterday when I were there to buy a set of hand protectors (it IS cold in Northern Germany) I of course took a look on these bikes.
Hi Fossil, where did you check out the new V7?
(Gruss aus Seevetal! :-)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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I wonder whether one of our European contributors would be able to find out what the gear ratios are for the new 6-speed V7 transmissions are, and post them here. They're probably listed in the owner's manual, which isn't available on line . I've downloaded the parts books for the new bikes, in several languages, but they don't specify the number of teeth on any of the driven (secondary shaft) gears, so I can't calculate the ratios. I do know the number of teeth on the input shaft gear from the clutch (18), the gear on primary shaft that it meshes with (23), secondary shaft gears for speeds 2-6 (32, 28, 26, 24, 24) and the ring and pinion gears (8/33, unchanged from the earlier bikes). Thanks.
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Foto, here's the latest thread with a link to the pic I was talking about:
http://www.wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=73803.0
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Foto, here's the latest thread with a link to the pic I was talking about:
http://www.wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=73803.0
Thanks, Me bad> I don't read all the SB threads.
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Amusingly I was talking to someone at the importer last week about the supposed map updates that I couldn't find any info on and mentioned the new wet alternator bikes the bloke I was talking to said "Oh no, the wet alternator won't be on bikes until the V7-II arrives." It took a fair bit of convincing to get him to accept they were already here! :D
Pete
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Amusingly, and also frustratingly, there's misinformation everywhere about these bikes. On the source Motorcycle Specifications (http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/), the V7 II models are shown as having 5-speed instead of 6-speed gearboxes. Moreover, the gear ratio listed for 5th speed is incorrect, even for the previous 5-speed models.
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Thanks, Me bad> I don't read all the SB threads.
V7 II was also the main topic of the EICMA thread. I don't know how you could've missed all the V7 II talk!
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Modifying my V7 Stone to my taste is the way on which I will proceed, and be it only because my engine is so well run in that I do not want to repeat this procedure. With 10 000 km on the clock the engine has loosened up significantly. But imagine a new customer: he will have the choice between a lot of very nice bikes. And there are more in the next future like the Ducati Scrambler, which will be in the same price-range as the Guzzi. So letting the evolution proceed is the right decision. And I just could read in one of our motorcycle magazines: normally a model is sold well when it is brand-new. Then the sales figures drop. The V7 series sees an opposite trend. The sales figures are increasing. But my dealer told me yesterday that up to now a lot of people buy another bike because the V7 lacks anti-slip and anti-blocking.
At Xlratr: Die Guzzi V7 due steht bei Martynow in Embsen bei Lüneburg, also wirklich nicht weit von Seevetal. Er hat Guzzi, Ducati (deshalb hatte ich auch eine Monster 1200 während der Inspektion), Aprilia, Suzuki, Kymco und Vespa. Und eine ausgezeichnete, gut geschulte Werkstatt.
The Guzzi V7 due can be seen at Martynow in Embsen near Lüneburg, really not far from Seevetal. He deals with Guzzi, Ducati (that´s why I had a Monster 1200 during an inspection), Aprilia, Suzuki, Kymco and Vespa. And an extraordinary, well-schooled workshop.
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Thanks, Me bad> I don't read all the SB threads.
BTDT :)
V7 II was also the main topic of the EICMA thread. I don't know how you could've missed all the V7 II talk!
I totally know how, it would be like if I suddenly asked a Stelvio question I'm sure it all would have been already answered. If a thread is mostly about one, I'd probably skim it or skip it.
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At Xlratr: Die Guzzi V7 due steht bei Martynow in Embsen bei Lüneburg, also wirklich nicht weit von Seevetal. Er hat Guzzi, Ducati (deshalb hatte ich auch eine Monster 1200 während der Inspektion), Aprilia, Suzuki, Kymco und Vespa. Und eine ausgezeichnete, gut geschulte Werkstatt.
OK. That's good to know. Sounds like a destination ride as soon as spring comes. :-)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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The Euro Moto Guzzi website has loads on the updated V7 and info on all the new accessories.
http://uk.motoguzzi.it
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The Euro Moto Guzzi website has loads on the updated V7 and info on all the new accessories.
http://uk.motoguzzi.it
Except that is out of date and contains nothing about the V7 II series except for a September news blurb.
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the real thing on the site is the 1200 sport (gorgeous) and the naked Stelvio that I would buy today if here.
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"Except that is out of date and contains nothing about the V7 II series except for a September news blurb."
Except that on the Guzzi website there are really exciting news about the new V 7 due: http://www.garagemotoguzzi.com/en/ .
And it contains good news for the owners of older STB´s also (but not for their wallets...).
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"OK. That's good to know. Sounds like a destination ride as soon as spring comes. :-)"
Sunday, 26 April 2015. Then there is the Motor Bike StartUp Day at the Fahrsicherheitszent rum of ADAC Lüneburg. And this is in Embsen, about 2 km from my dealer. Who will also attend. And there is the opportunity to test drive nearly all of the bikes (not only these of my dealer) on an interesting test track.
http://fsz-lueneburg.de/adac/motorrad-mehr-startup-day.htm
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Cool! Thanks for that link. It's now in my calender. Looks like a good opportunity to try my first SB☺
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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the real thing on the site is the 1200 sport (gorgeous) and the naked Stelvio that I would buy today if here.
Nice in blue and without the outriggers.
(http://uk.motoguzzi.it/mediaObject/images/Colors/stelvio-1200-8v/my14/20-Stelvio-1200-8V-My14-Blu-Profondo0/resolutions/res-o1600x1100-p-1514362764/20-Stelvio-1200-8V-My14-Blu-Profondo0.jpg)
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Except that on the Guzzi website there are really exciting news about the new V 7 due: http://www.garagemotoguzzi.com/en/ .
Well, I suppose one person's excitement can be another's boredom. I'm not interested in these "customizing" kits, they're only eye candy. I'd be a lot more interested if somewhere on the site there was more technical information abut the new V7 II bikes. MG has been very coy about releasing details, even now that they're actually selling the bikes. For example, as I mentioned previously, there's nothing about the gear ratios of the new 6-speed gearboxes. There's also no information about the power output of the wet alternators, even though they've been on the bikes for over a year now.
Perhaps if MG were to release electronic versions of the owner's manuals, some of this information would be available. But perhaps not, as there are plenty of technical errors in both the printed and electronic versions of the owner's and workshop manuals for my '13 V7 Stone.
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.....there are plenty of technical errors in both the printed and electronic versions of the owner's and workshop manuals.....
Traditions are hard to break.
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Perhaps if MG were to release electronic versions of the owner's manuals, some of this information would be available. But perhaps not, as there are plenty of technical errors in both the printed and electronic versions of the owner's and workshop manuals for my '13 V7 Stone.
Errors in any tech manual are not uncommon.
But, if you would, expand on "plenty"?
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The raw Stelvio is nice, I have never liked the trax boxes. Came close to buying a Stelvio a year ago, but couldn't stand the loss on trying to sell the trax. Also my argument of selling the Super Tenere to get a lighter bike didn't wash either. :-)
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We are talking about a series of bikes that has less than 50 hp from a 750 ccm engine. Whose state-of-the-art is late VW Beetle (mexican, with fuel injection). We are talking about the looks, the way it feels and so on. Of course errors in technical manuals are not nice (I know that, I write some).
We know from several reports at least here in Germany that the first gear is shorter and the sixth is longer than before, which I regard a good think. But I am really not interested in the exact ratios. But that I can now mod my Stone into a scrambler with official parts is important to me. And you are right - it is eye-candy. That´s why I ride such a bike and not a BMW or so.
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We are talking about a series of bikes that has less than 50 hp from a 750 ccm engine. Whose state-of-the-art is late VW Beetle (mexican, with fuel injection). We are talking about the looks, the way it feels and so on. Of course errors in technical manuals are not nice (I know that, I write some).
We know from several reports at least here in Germany that the first gear is shorter and the sixth is longer than before, which I regard a good think. But I am really not interested in the exact ratios. But that I can now mod my Stone into a scrambler with official parts is important to me. And you are right - it is eye-candy. That´s why I ride such a bike and not a BMW or so.
;-T
Though I'm still interested in the specs, cause I'm geeky like that. :BEER:
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Errors in any tech manual are not uncommon.
But, if you would, expand on "plenty"?
I didn't write them down as I came across them, but here are some of the ones that I remember:
The owner's manual, p. 99, and the workshop manual. p. CHAR-12, the final drive ratio is shown as 4.825, it should be 4.125 for 8/33 gearing (do the math). Also, the 5th gear ratio is shown as 22/25, it should be 25/22.
Even though the owner's manual is supposed to include USA models, there is no mention of the USA license plate illumination light, and the turn indicator lights are incorrectly specified as orange bulbs.
The owner's and workshop manuals state that the tires are Pirelli Sport Demons, whereas my bike came from the factory with Lasertec tires.
The rear shock absorber adjustment procedure in the owner's manual is for the Sachs models, but my bike came from the factory with Olle rear shocks, which are adjusted differently.
The workshop manual contains obsolete photographs of the ECU electrical plug (pp. MAIN-47 and -49). The electrical wiring diagram on p. ELE SYS-76 is incorrect, and shows the one for previous 2TB models with the previous ECU with a 26-pin connector. The older 26-pin connector is also shown, and the pin numbering is incorrect, on pp. ELE SYS-107-8.
Those are just some of the errors I've encountered so far. I haven't done any chassis, engine, gearbox, or transmission work yet, so there may be other errors lurking.
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And you are right - it is eye-candy. That´s why I ride such a bike and not a BMW or so.
Absolutely! If it doesn't look good, it's only half the fun! :-)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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I didn't write them down as I came across them, but here are some of the ones that I remember:
The owner's manual, p. 99, and the workshop manual. p. CHAR-12, the final drive ratio is shown as 4.825, it should be 4.125 for 8/33 gearing (do the math). Also, the 5th gear ratio is shown as 22/25, it should be 25/22.
Even though the owner's manual is supposed to include USA models, there is no mention of the USA license plate illumination light, and the turn indicator lights are incorrectly specified as orange bulbs.
The owner's and workshop manuals state that the tires are Pirelli Sport Demons, whereas my bike came from the factory with Lasertec tires.
The rear shock absorber adjustment procedure in the owner's manual is for the Sachs models, but my bike came from the factory with Olle rear shocks, which are adjusted differently.
The workshop manual contains obsolete photographs of the ECU electrical plug (pp. MAIN-47 and -49). The electrical wiring diagram on p. ELE SYS-76 is incorrect, and shows the one for previous 2TB models with the previous ECU with a 26-pin connector. The older 26-pin connector is also shown, and the pin numbering is incorrect, on pp. ELE SYS-107-8.
Those are just some of the errors I've encountered so far. I haven't done any chassis, engine, gearbox, or transmission work yet, so there may be other errors lurking.
Well, some of those are legit for sure.
I wonder about your tires and whether or not that changed at the dealer.
The obsolete photos, are they just informational or is the wrong photo misleading? Like is it labeled for pins or something?
The shock thing is just silly on Piaggio's part for sure.
The missing US data, meh, there was a time when some EU manufacturers provided NO US data.
But yeah, that's a higher percentage than I'd generally expect.
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I wonder about your tires and whether or not that changed at the dealer.
Actually, my dealer told me that all of the black '13 Stones came in with Lasertec tires and Olle shocks, whereas the all white ones had Pirellis and Sachs. Go figure. Another curious detail: my Stone came in with the 90-degree tire valve stems pointing to the left, whereas the stems on all the other tubeless tired bikes the dealer and I have seen are pointed to the right, which makes for easier access when the bike is leaning left on the side stand. I plan to get mine pointed the other way when I get new tires. I guess creativity reigns on the assembly line at MG.
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All manuals and parts lists are there. So you find an oil pump and filter in the gearbox.
gearratio
old
(http://www.mgcn.nl/forum/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-9-0-73641600-1417120961.jpg)
new
(http://www.mgcn.nl/forum/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-9-0-12980700-1417119858.jpg)
parts
V7-II-RACER-ABS-750-2015 (http://www.mgcn.nl/downloads/V7-II-RACER-ABS-750-2015.pdf)
V7-II-SPECIAL-ABS-750 (http://www.mgcn.nl/downloads/V7-II-SPECIAL-ABS-750.pdf)
V7-II-STONE-ABS-750-2015 (http://www.mgcn.nl/downloads/V7-II-STONE-ABS-750-2015.pdf)
owner manual german Dutch http://www.mgcn.nl/downloads/gebruikersboekV7-Racer-II-V7SpecialII-V7StoneII-DE-NL.pdf (http://www.mgcn.nl/downloads/gebruikersboekV7-Racer-II-V7SpecialII-V7StoneII-DE-NL.pdf)
and workshop
http://www.mgcn.nl/downloads/V7_ABS_workshop_manual_EN.pdf
wiring
http://www.mgcn.nl/downloads/V7_ABS_wiring.pdf
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Hi Paul,
If I understand your graphs correctly the V7 (5 speed) is doing 96kph @ 4000 rpm, the V7 II (6 speed) is doing 100 kph @ 4000 rpm. In other words, almost the same final gearing in the top gear for each. That's what I was expecting, in spite of all the talk about 6th being an even taller gear that the current box. I believe the oil pump and filter will turn out to be the most significant change in the real world.
Thanks,
Peter Y.
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Thanks Paul ;-T
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Many, many thanks, gracias, grazie, merci, obrigado, danke, and dank!
Now we know that the overall top gear ratio is nearly identical to that of the 5-speed box, 1st and 2nd are slightly lower, 5th is in between old 4th and 5th, and the others are similar.
The calculated top speed at red line (7200 rpm) and with stock tires is 115 mph with the 6-speed box vs 113 with the 5-speed, bearing in mind that probably neither engine will get you there except perhaps going downhill with a tailwind.
Thanks again.
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Hi Paul,
If I understand your graphs correctly the V7 (5 speed) is doing 96kph @ 4000 rpm, the V7 II (6 speed) is doing 100 kph @ 4000 rpm. In other words, almost the same final gearing in the top gear for each. That's what I was expecting, in spite of all the talk about 6th being an even taller gear that the current box. I believe the oil pump and filter will turn out to be the most significant change in the real world.
Thanks,
Peter Y.
Maybe not. 1,2.3 and,5 are all geared lower than in the old box, which will put more torque at the rear wheel almost everywhere. And you've got 6th for cruising. It might make for a quite different riding experience.
Not that I'd know! I've never ridden a V7! Yet! :-)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Hi Paul,
If I understand your graphs correctly the V7 (5 speed) is doing 96kph @ 4000 rpm, the V7 II (6 speed) is doing 100 kph @ 4000 rpm. In other words, almost the same final gearing in the top gear for each. That's what I was expecting, in spite of all the talk about 6th being an even taller gear that the current box. I believe the oil pump and filter will turn out to be the most significant change in the real world.
Thanks,
Peter Y.
I think the lower 1st will be welcomed.
And the 4.5% taller 6th will be welcomed by many.
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The steps in between are smaller, so more easy to get up speed. But you aren't allowed to go that fast at all. And with the little horses you need all help you can.
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Here are another couple of interesting factoids:
the new 6-sp gearbox with oil pump takes only 500 cc of oil, vs 1000 cc for the old 5-speed. And the new gearbox calls for 75W-90 weight, compared to 85W-90 for the 5-speed box.
The wet alternator is rated at 270 W, whereas the dry one was rated at 350 W.
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There we have it, a Guzzi first: a dry sump gearbox
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Actually, my dealer told me that all of the black '13 Stones came in with Lasertec tires and Olle shocks, whereas the all white ones had Pirellis and Sachs. Go figure. Another curious detail: my Stone came in with the 90-degree tire valve stems pointing to the left, whereas the stems on all the other tubeless tired bikes the dealer and I have seen are pointed to the right, which makes for easier access when the bike is leaning left on the side stand. I plan to get mine pointed the other way when I get new tires. I guess creativity reigns on the assembly line at MG.
What's the difference between the Olle and Sachs with regards to setting preload? How do you do it on yours? (Honestly don't know off the top of my head what came on mine. Though I remember I had Pirellis.
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Paul, thanks for that work.
But are we sure the numbers are accurate?
Those numbers say 100 kph (60mph) = 4000 rpm in fifth on the current 5-speed?
Maybe winter is setting in but that's sounding high to me. I'll go search...
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OK searching old threads suggests that we THOUGHT ~3.8K = 60 MPH.
That could mean speedo error, or some factor missed by the calculations.
I was hoping the new setup would drop rpm by a couple hundred in top gear, but it doesn't sound like that will happen.
It IS a hair taller, but not what I was hoping for...
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The new transmission uses half the oil, has a oil pump and fits the old cases?
I like to see if it has any bugs the first year and how the shift linkage and shift feel after that.
Moto G. Never Perfect. Always Awesome! ;D
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But 6th isn't taller than old 5th, in fact it's 1% lower.
Either we're looking at different charts, or we're using different terms for "Taller" and "Lower".
From the chart: 5-speed VMax is 192kph. For the 6-speed, VMax is 200kph. So, the 6-speed bike is geared "taller" than the 5-speed.
192 x 1.045 = 200.64 which I read as 4.5% taller.
(yes, I understand that the V7 II doesn't have enough power to pull VMax, but we're talking about gearing)
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The new transmission uses half the oil, has a oil pump and fits the old cases?
I like to see if it has any bugs the first year and how the shift linkage and shift feel after that.
The new gearbox is exactly that, new. In a lot of waysit seems very similar in appearance to the 'Nuovo Six Speed' used in the CARC bikes but it is obviously significantly different internally. No way will the new internals fit into the old cases and I'd be very surprised if you could retrofit a six speed box into a five speed bike.
As for bugs? Why should there be any if there has been one 100% success with the post Piaggio bikes it's been the Nuovo Six Speed which is not only a great box to use but has been bulletproof.
Pete
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Well, these nice diagrams confirm: the first gear is shorter, top gear is longer. This is a good thing. But: do I miss power on my 5-gear version? No, not in the least. Even in fifth the little Guzzi accelerates quite happily, especially since she is run in.
In this context: when I had the Monster 1200 as teporary replacement for the Guzzi (inspection) and then got my bike back I of course suspected I have lost a cylinder or so. But that feeling got away fast (nonetheless, the Ducati was FUN to ride!). When I needed another substitute (my shaft drive leaked oil) I got the Vstrom 1000. This thing has 100 hp. And it did not feel stronger bi a great margin than the Guzzi. Of course it was, but the feeling simply wasn´t there.
By the way: driving the Suzuki confirmed my opinion that at least for me a bike must not be "perfect", it must not fit in any rolls, and of course it must not be a castle made of plastic. This bike simply generated no joy in me. And I do not want to say it is not a good product. It simply did not fit.
When we speak of plastic: now I can get rid of the plastic fenders. I think the polished aluminium fenders are especially made for me, as is the new, narrower 3/4 seat.
My bike came with the Pirellis and Ollé - shocks. The tire valves are oriented to the left.
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Regarding the technical manuals: There are in fact a lot of pictures that show the older version (dual throttle bodies) ant not the stb - versions. But if the workflow is the same - who cares?
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Paul, thanks for that work.
But are we sure the numbers are accurate?
Well all gears are there, so whats holding you from doing your own math?
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Well all gears are there, so whats holding you from doing your own math?
The fact that we can't be 100% sure of the NUMBERS (that includes the gears, since there have been some contradictory data provided on them).
And I guess I was questioning how well the calculation takes into account factors like actual tire size.
Though you'll see I did suggest that it was likely more accurate than the speedos and the faulty humans reading them.
No matter, it's only a relative RCH.
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What's the difference between the Olle and Sachs with regards to setting preload? How do you do it on yours? (Honestly don't know off the top of my head what came on mine. Though I remember I had Pirellis.
One has two adjusting rings, one to adjust and the outside as a lock. The other has one ring with a small set screw hidden from view to loosen and lock the adjust ring.
My '14 Special has the former, Perilli tires, and straight valve stems.
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One has two adjusting rings, one to adjust and the outside as a lock. The other has one ring with a small set screw hidden from view to loosen and lock the adjust ring.
My '14 Special has the former, Perilli tires, and straight valve stems.
That's exactly the difference in the shocks. I've never heard anything about which is better. I believe that the 90-degree stems are only suitable for the tubeless tire cast rims on the Stone, not the tubed tired, spoke rims on Special.
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Thanks, yeah I seem to remember having the set screw type but the manual detailed the double ring nut type. <shrugs>
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Let's do the math and find out how many times the rear axle rotates for every engine rotation:
5-speed gearbox, input gears 16/21, 5th speed gears 25/22, rear end 8/33, overall ratio (16/21)x(25/22)x(8/33) = 0.20989.
6-speed gearbox, input gears 18/23, 6th speed gears 27/24, rear end 8/33, overall ratio (18/23)x(27/24)x(8/33) = 0.21344.
the new 6th gear is 100x((0.21344-0.20989))/0.20989 = 1.69% higher than the old 5th gear, assuming that the gear tooth numbers printed in the owner's manuals are correct.
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Let's do the math and find out how many times the rear axle rotates for every engine rotation:
5-speed gearbox, input gears 16/21, 5th speed gears 25/22, rear end 8/33, overall ratio (16/21)x(25/22)x(8/33) = 0.20989.
6-speed gearbox, input gears 18/23, 6th speed gears 27/24, rear end 8/33, overall ratio (18/23)x(27/24)x(8/33) = 0.21344.
the new 6th gear is 100x((0.21344-0.20989))/0.20989 = 1.69% higher than the old 5th gear, assuming that the gear tooth numbers printed in the owner's manuals are correct.
5-speed: 1.31 x .88 x 4.125 = 4.76:1 overall gear ratio in 5th gear.
6-speed: 1.277 x .89 x 4.125 = 4.63:1 overall gear ratio in 6th gear.
4.76 into 4.63 = .97268
But whatever... We're splitting hairs here. Overall gearing in top is slightly taller with the six-speed, but in the real world it will likely mean little. I was expecting more.
The spacing does look good, and the lower 1st gear will be helpful.
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It is also where your torque comes in at as well . I have a '76 Suzuki GT500 with about the same horse power as a V7. But it will pull like a tractor from a stop very easily without having to rev much to get moving, smoothly, up to speed, also without lugging, bucking, just electric motor smoothness. It will get a little buzzy going faster, it is a 2 stroke after all. Yes I have a 2 STROKE twin!!! (approx. 21,000 miles on it) Gets 44 mpg in town, almost as much as my V7 - 49mpg. The gear ratio of 4th and 5th are sooooo close it is stupid. RPM barely drops from a shift up. Don't know what Suzuki was thinking when they did this gear box.
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Either we're looking at different charts, or we're using different terms for "Taller" and "Lower".
From the chart: 5-speed VMax is 192kph. For the 6-speed, VMax is 200kph. So, the 6-speed bike is geared "taller" than the 5-speed.
192 x 1.045 = 200.64 which I read as 4.5% taller.
(yes, I understand that the V7 II doesn't have enough power to pull VMax, but we're talking about gearing)
Yes, my boo-boo. I've deleted that post and corrected another one. The newer 6th gear overall is slightly (1.69%) taller (factoring in the different input shaft gear ratio) than the old 5th gear, and the calculated speed at the nominal 7200 rpm redline with the stock tire size is a couple mph higher, 115 vs 113. Sorry for my earlier math-challenged post.
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Sorry for my earlier math-challenged post.
No worries. Math is always a challenge for me!!!
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You guys might want to get out and spend some time around women. :D
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You guys might want to get out and spend some time around women. :D
Jebus, the LAST thing I need is another kid....:-\
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Trust me, the only skill that improves is subtraction.
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You guys might want to get out and spend some time around women. :D
I've tried, and the women object.
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This was MOST entertaining to read. Wow. It's hard to fathom how some folks process information. Seems pretty simple-buy the bike you want. If something is not available get something else.
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bump
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No way could they have add much to the top gear it would have never pulled a true 6 speed overdrive.
I disagree... I still look for a 6th at times when I feel it's got plenty of pull and running at a higher rpm than necessary.
The lower first gear is more appealing to me then anything. It needed a lower first gear in my opinion. I'm running a 90 profile tire on the back and that may be why first feels tall. I can't remember what it was like with the 80 profile rear.
WELL then if you can't remember, MAYBE you can't judge if it could have pulled at a lower final ratio :P ;) :BEER:
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Valve stems face left, I'll be turning those to the right when I change tires.
My '13 V7 Stone's valve stems also face left, and I intend to switch them to the right when I change tires. Curiously, all the other recent tubeless-tired Guzzis that my dealer has seen came from the factory with the valve stems facing right.
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The new transmission uses half the oil, has a oil pump and fits the old cases?
I like to see if it has any bugs the first year and how the shift linkage and shift feel after that.
Moto G. Never Perfect. Always Awesome! ;D
The new gearbox does have a different case. And, it doesn't USE half the oil, it CONTAINS half the oil. It actually "uses" much less than half the oil, because the change interval, after the first 1000-km (621 mi) service, is 60,000 km (37,000 mi), compared to 20,000 km (12,400 mi) for the current USA V7 models. So it actually uses 1/6 the amount of oil
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The new gearbox does have a different case. And, it doesn't USE half the oil, it CONTAINS half the oil. It actually "uses" much less than half the oil, because the change interval, after the first 1000-km (621 mi) service, is 60,000 km (37,000 mi), compared to 20,000 km (12,400 mi) for the current USA V7 models. So it actually uses 1/6 the amount of oil
Pressure fed gearboxes are the norm with most motorbikes, it's just that most of those that use the system share their lubricant with the engine. The purpose of the pump won't be to spray oil around as some may think, it will be delivering the oil through the shafts to lubricate the pinions where they spin on the shafts. Whether the new box will use needle rollers here still I don't know yet but my guess would be that these will of been changed to bushes in the interests of cost cutting I may be wrong, I know nothing of the box yet.
The use of such a small quantity of lubricant is quite acceptable. If the new Smallblock six speed is similar to the one used in the larger bikes the shafts will run primarily on sealed 2RS bearings that don't require external lubrication. Apart from that there will be the primary gears and whichever set of pinions are delivering drive that will be carrying load and working the oil hard. The other pinions will simply be freewheeling and therefore barely working the oil at all so apart from lubricating the sub-pinion bushings/bearings there is very little work being done. Hence one assumes the small quantity and long service interval of the oil.
On the subject of the 60,000 km change interval is there also a time interval stated? Two years? Five years?
Pete
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The five speed is using more oil then a six speed. Could be why Kevin is looking for sixth gear, it something to do with the oil level then.
??? mongo no understand what you mean...mongo only pawn in game of life... ???
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??? mongo no understand what you mean...mongo only pawn in game of life... ???
Candygram for Mongo! Candygram for Mongo!
And, let's not forget: It's Mongo!! Santamaria!!
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Whether the new box will use needle rollers here still I don't know yet but my guess would be that these will of been changed to bushes in the interests of cost cutting I may be wrong, I know nothing of the box yet.
On the subject of the 60,000 km change interval is there also a time interval stated? Two years? Five years?
Pete
Your guess is correct: the parts book shows bushes all around, and no needle roller bearings in the gearbox.
As far as I can determine from my German/Dutch copy of the user manual, there is no stated time interval for gearbox oil changes.
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I told you how to fix the issue and bring the RPM's down. Put a 90 profile tire on the rear of the bike. It may stop that knee jerk reaction to feel the need for another shift up into 5th gear again.
Or sell the bike and buy one with the 6th gear which will drop it about as much as the tire profile change.
I don't need a 6th gear. IF YOU DO......THEN TRADE UP.
I'll give you Kelly Blue book trade in value for your 13 with the hard bags, extended sump, racer seat, tail bag, crash bars.
I'll even fly back to New Jersey and ride it back to California. Just have it washed, polished and serviced. Make sure you put in 10-60 oil I don't want 20-50 in the engine that will make it blow the frock up.
??? What's with the hostility?
Something going on IRL?
All I did was disagree with your assessment regarding power and theoretical point in the rpm band for highway use. That warranted such a response?
For the record, I'm not necessarily convinced the 90 series would be sufficient for what I'm talking about, but I'll keep it in mind if I want to experiment in the future. Then again, I just put a new rear on in the fall so it might be a while.
More importantly, I never claimed I "need" 6th, just that I could see it being a good thing and might help the feel of my bike at highway speeds.
Of course I could always just ride the Duc which has a 6th gear, but that's as relevant to this conversation as your rude suggestion there I somehow want or need to get rid of a bike I love.
And I still don't get the gear oil reference, or that 20-50 reference either.
<puzzled by the response>
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Didn't mean to come across that way, :BEER:
If you want a 6th speed or need that I'll help you out.
I'm all about compassion and helping my fellow rider. ;D
OK, if you're just busting my chops I can understand that.... Might even deserve it. :)
Like I said, not a need, but a not infrequent observation... Still LOVE my V7.
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Not a bad bike for the price. I purchased the bike for the simplicity.
True dat - ME TOO...
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My '13 V7 Stone's valve stems also face left, and I intend to switch them to the right when I change tires. Curiously, all the other recent tubeless-tired Guzzis that my dealer has seen came from the factory with the valve stems facing right.
My '13 V7R has one facing left, the other lef -- annoying :-\
I'd prefer both facing right.
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My '13 V7R has one facing left, the other lef -- annoying :-\
I'd prefer both facing right.
You're one tire change away from fixing that.
Don't even have to wait for a tire change if you don't want to. Minor annoyance, but I agree that it IS an annoyance for a frequently ridden bike that you check every ride ...
Lannis
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OK I went out to the garage to check the tire valve stems on my V7
its a Special so the valves are straight (tubes)
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Huh? Don't they just swivel around by hand when the air pressure is reduced?
???
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Huh? Don't they just swivel around by hand when the air pressure is reduced?
???
Shirley, you jest.
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Had them installed on my Goldwing 1200 - later, I turned the front one 180 degrees around so I could air up from the right hand side - much easier!
Just had to deflate the tire and the stem could be twisted easily 360.
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A pic of the ones on my '13 V7 Stone shows an O-ring and nut on the inward side.
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/6hsAAOxyAbxTkwlV/$_35.JPG
If properly cinched down, I doubt it could be easily rotated.
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for your viewing pleasure
(https://scontent-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10422278_804952086220449_2384234753269218877_n.jpg?oh=0ea621a3d7b7b3b5960bc8f8f33e5c6d&oe=5551F669)
(https://scontent-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/18495_804952099553781_2498065007212489172_n.jpg?oh=96d552ff8d76c93b8a9b744ca2c8f7a3&oe=55871F62)
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V7 II has CARB approval:
http://blog.motorcycle.com/2015/03/03/manufacturers/moto-guzzi/moto-guzzi-v7-ii-series-gets-carb-approval-2016-model-year/
I'm guessing early fall arrival.
Rich A
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V7 II has CARB approval:
http://blog.motorcycle.com/2015/03/03/manufacturers/moto-guzzi/moto-guzzi-v7-ii-series-gets-carb-approval-2016-model-year/
I'm guessing early fall arrival.
Rich A
Ain't that just the funniest acronym (CARB) for an Air Relations Board? That is hilarious. "Just say NO to CARBS".
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That is hilarious. "Just say NO to CARBS".
:D ;-T :BEER:
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for your viewing pleasure
I presume this is the new 6-sp gearbox. Where on earth did you find these pics? A thing of beauty. Thanks.
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I presume this is the new 6-sp gearbox. Where on earth did you find these pics? A thing of beauty. Thanks.
Moto Guzzi World Club Facebook page.
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The V7II Special is now available in Australia, I was lucky enough to get 1 of 10 Black & orange ones, it was only $500 more than the runout 2014 model. I'm not sure how to post a photo in this forum. But have added one of the V7 and my Pantah in the gallery. I've only put 500km on it since picking up last week but am real happy with it. Accessories like engine guards need to be specific to this model but rear end bits like racks appear to be the same as previous model.
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Gear ratio figures I have from the Australian site are:
Gear Ratios: 1st 14/37 = 2.542:1
2nd 18/32 = 1.777:1
3rd 21/28 = 1.333:1
4th 24/26 = 1.083:1
5th 25/24 = 9.960:1
6th 27/24 = 0.888:1
Primary drive Helical gear set ratio 18/23 = 1.277:1
Final drive Helical gear set ratio 08/33 = 4.125:1
These are the only figures I have seen for the V7 II
Just as an aside, the BREVA 1100 does a little under 4000rpm @ 110Kph
Cheers
Brian ;D
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I was at my dealer on the 18th and they said they had just gotten an email the day before giving them the option to start pre-ordering and the sales person hinted that there was even a delivery date in the email, but he wasn't comfortable sharing that date. No idea if he was feeding me a line, but it does sound like the dealerships are starting to get some concrete information from Guzzi.
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(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/72329b7e-74e0-4c3b-a1dc-d83628ff9423_zpspzzb9mgf.png)
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I was at my dealer on the 18th and they said they had just gotten an email the day before giving them the option to start pre-ordering and the sales person hinted that there was even a delivery date in the email, but he wasn't comfortable sharing that date. No idea if he was feeding me a line, but it does sound like the dealerships are starting to get some concrete information from Guzzi.
I ordered my '16 V7II Stone yesterday, from a well-known RI dealer. He just got the word earlier yesterday that MG-USA is taking orders. Delivery of mine is expected in a couple of weeks, which should be before mid-May.
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So, after spending a week with the new V7 MkII Here are my findings:
6 speed gear box - terminal gearing hasn't changed at all. 65mph = 4000 rpm, same as on the earlier V7. Some people will argue that b/c you have to shift through another gear you will get worse fuel economy. I don't care about that, some people are ridiculous. What I did notice is there are definitely 6 closer spaced gears (duh). I actually like it. I think it's geared better for running around town in 3rd gear, where before 2nd felt a little too buzzy and 3 was a little lurch-y.
Riding position - My feet ARE lower, only a little, but they're definitely lower, it looks like they've stretched this frame downward. The rest of the ergo's are identical, they claim the seat is lower, but I don't feel it, and my tape measure doesn't confirm it. Emmy sat on the new MkII and said it was taller! So, it's definitely up to the rider.
Overall Aesthetic - I LOVE LOVE LOVE the new Grigio Intenso (Flat silver) paint on the new MkII - I HATE HATE HATE the gap that is now happening down at the bottom frame rail / exhaust / shift linkage area. The frame ends that are now easily
visible look haphazardly cut off and were instantly noticed by everyone comparing the new bikes to the older ones.
$ - Ok, I understand charging more money for ABS and TC - but I really don't want either of those on a bike this size. I'm taking the 0.9% financing and $1000 off MSRP and going for a brand new 2014 model.
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So, after spending a week with the new V7 MkII Here are my findings:
6 speed gear box - terminal gearing hasn't changed at all. 65mph = 4000 rpm, same as on the earlier V7. Some people will argue that b/c you have to shift through another gear you will get worse fuel economy. I don't care about that, some people are ridiculous. What I did notice is there are definitely 6 closer spaced gears (duh). I actually like it. I think it's geared better for running around town in 3rd gear, where before 2nd felt a little too buzzy and 3 was a little lurch-y.
Riding position - My feet ARE lower, only a little, but they're definitely lower, it looks like they've stretched this frame downward. The rest of the ergo's are identical, they claim the seat is lower, but I don't feel it, and my tape measure doesn't confirm it. Emmy sat on the new MkII and said it was taller! So, it's definitely up to the rider.
Overall Aesthetic - I LOVE LOVE LOVE the new Grigio Intenso (Flat silver) paint on the new MkII - I HATE HATE HATE the gap that is now happening down at the bottom frame rail / exhaust / shift linkage area. The frame ends that are now easily
visible look haphazardly cut off and were instantly noticed by everyone comparing the new bikes to the older ones.
$ - Ok, I understand charging more money for ABS and TC - but I really don't want either of those on a bike this size. I'm taking the 0.9% financing and $1000 off MSRP and going for a brand new 2014 model.
I've put nearly 500 mi on my '16 Stone since I got it on May 8, and I generally agree with pocphil's comments. The new gearbox just feels more solid, the shifts are crisper and take less lever travel. Occasionally, it hasn't gone into 1st from neutral at a stop (even though the neutral light has gone out), but I'll attribute that to being new and my having to get used to it, since it hasn't happened after the first 250 mi. Also, having another gear means I have to try harder to keep track of which gear I'm in, but I think I'll eventually adapt to that, too. Clutch action does seem to be somewhat smoother, as advertised.
By running a tape measure from one peg, over the lowest, narrowest point on the saddle, and down to the other peg, I got a 1 in. greater total length for the '16 Stone than the '13 Stone, so I can verify that there is a slightly larger seat-to-peg distance (~1/2 in.) for the new bike, but it IS slight.
I too noticed the abrupt frame tube ends under the bike. It doesn't look as elegant as the earlier frame did. The open frame tube ends are begging for something to cap them, but that would be a bad idea if water could get trapped in there.
Since I traded "up" from the '13 Stone partly to get ABS, I can't complain about having it. I did test to see if I could lock up the rear wheel on a straight sandy section of road. The ABS seems to work as advertised.
Out of the box, the ECU flash seems to be fine, no cold start issues, no uneven acceleration, no hesitation, no popping, no grumbling. So, MG seems to have finally gotten the map right on this engine.
The new Stone doesn't have the evaporative emissions control carbon canister dangling under the frame. It's somehow been relocated to somewhere under the fuel tank. I haven't dug into this or the crankcase blowby recovery system yet, but I'm curious about how it's all put together on the new bike. The latest version of the parts manual (1/19/15) omits any mention of these systems. There are two open hoses that terminate under the engine. I presume that one is for the fuel tank opening overflow/rainwater gutter drain and the other is coming from the carbon canister (wherever that is).
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If this is a duplicate post, my apologies. Frank Melling really likes the V7 II:
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/2015/08/article/2015-moto-guzzi-v7-ii-first-ride/
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Getting back to the orientation of the valve stems on the tires.
You really need to have one pointing to the left, and the other pointing to the right. That way the offset weights will cancel out, which will cause the bike to balance better dynamically. Otherwise you'll get gyroscopic precession causing a torque abscess.
I'd post the math, but it's pretty complicated.
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Getting back to the orientation of the valve stems on the tires.
You really need to have one pointing to the left, and the other pointing to the right. That way the offset weights will cancel out, which will cause the bike to balance better dynamically. Otherwise you'll get gyroscopic precession causing a torque abscess.
I'd post the math, but it's pretty complicated.
Stick to law Prescott :laugh: "Torque abscess" :grin: :huh: :grin: :grin: :huh: :grin: :huh:
Of course , if we are discussing this from a philosophical perspective , then , well it makes perfect sense :laugh:
Dusty
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Finally got to poke around some V7II's in the flesh today.
All in all they look good.
Cosmetically they cleaned up the area under the motor by relocating the EVAP canister under the tank, right behind the V, above the intake.
The ABS modulator is also under the tank, at the front, right behind the regulator. The only problem with this is the ugly double brake lines running from the rear master cylinder up to the modulator, then back again to the rear wheel. Clumsy but I guess necessary if you're going to put the modulator there.
The wet alternator front cover was obvious enough.
It didn't occur to me to sit on one and check the ergos, but it didn't look much different.
The Stone had some pleasing black touches where mine has/had chrome (bars, injector covers, mirrors, tail-light).
All in all, I like em... Well done.
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(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp19/demar39/V7II%20Scrambler.jpg)
2016 Factory V7II Scrambler. I love this bike and hope to get a new one in 2017 when the 2016's are discounted. That will give me time to save my pennies. GuzziTech is working on a 4V head and claims 60 rwhp with an 820 big bore kit http://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/new-v7-with-4v-heads.14276/
Maybe the factory will have incorporated similar improvements by 2017. If Guzzi can get to 60 rwhp on the V7II it will put it right there with the Triumph Scrambler. It's great to see the investment by MG in the V7II. :thumb:
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What is a "wet" alternator and the move to these? My standard '15 has the wet right, though earlier versions of the V7 are not, right?
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What is a "wet" alternator and the move to these? My standard '15 has the wet right, though earlier versions of the V7 are not, right?
They moved the alternator into the oil bath under a sealed front cover, as opposed to the 2013 and 2014 models where it was still on the outside of the crankcase (just in front of an oil seal) behind a easily removable small plastic cover.
I believe there was a change in total power output the occurred at the same time, but the power went down which raises the question of why they made the change (what advantage did it offer)?
Maybe it's better protected against corrosion or the more stable temperature offers some advantage? I really don't know.
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They moved the alternator into the oil bath under a sealed front cover, as opposed to the 2013 and 2014 models where it was still on the outside of the crankcase (just in front of an oil seal) behind a easily removable small plastic cover.
I believe there was a change in total power output the occurred at the same time, but the power went down which raises the question of why they made the change (what advantage did it offer)?
Maybe it's better protected against corrosion or the more stable temperature offers some advantage? I really don't know.
I'll have to run the numbers; hope it doesn't interfere with my Winter riding where I run Gerbing's gloves and jacket liner with dual controller. Rarely run them both full on but we'll see, I suppose.
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Getting back to the orientation of the valve stems on the tires.
You really need to have one pointing to the left, and the other pointing to the right. That way the offset weights will cancel out, which will cause the bike to balance better dynamically. Otherwise you'll get gyroscopic precession causing a torque abscess.
I'd post the math, but it's pretty complicated.
So THAT'S why my '16 V7II drifts slightly to the right when I take my hands off the bars. Both my valve stems point to the right. On my previous '13 V7, both valve stems pointed to the left, but I never checked which way the bike drifted without my hands on the bars because I was too new to riding to have dared. So, Mr. math whiz, does it matter which valve stem points which way? [and will this be on the final?]. In the meantime, if I partially unzip my left jacket pocket, I can eliminate the rightward drift.
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>>>So, Mr. math whiz, does it matter which valve stem points which way?<<
Sib, do you ride north or south of the equator?
I can't start working on the math until I factor in the Coriolis forces.
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Scientific discussion. This is why I come to WG. :tongue:
SCIENCE!