Place your bets..

[Chuck in Indiana]

Thanks Derek.. should have had the solution today, but Dorcia's sister had a medical issue and we've been at the hospital all day. Fortunately, It doesn't *appear* to be as bad as first feared. As you know, these brain things can be a problem..

[LowRyter]

Best wishes to Dorcia and her sister.  You and your family were quite kind to us.  I appreciate that.

Give my regards to Dorcia and her sister.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Best wishes to Dorcia and her sister.  You and your family were quite kind to us.  I appreciate that.

Give my regards to Dorcia and her sister.

Will do, John.. thanks!
Now, I can get back to the important stuff.. finding what is wrong with my Moto Guzzi.   

[jwinwi]

Having the benefit of all the posts up to this point, the internal splines in the flywheel are a likely culprit. Something else I discovered relates to the position of the clutch arm on the back of the transmission. After replacing the input hub (4 mm),  clutch friction plates (SD Tec) and the higher quality (laser cut) intermediate plate from MG Cycle I set the clutch arm as far back as possible but found the clutch was still not very progressive; it only started hooking up at the end of the handle travel. Then I tried adjusting the clutch arm farther forward while still maintaining clearance to the back of the transmission at full engagement: Much more progressive take up! Anyone else have experience with this?

[Chuck in Indiana]

Having the benefit of all the posts up to this point, the internal splines in the flywheel are a likely culprit. Something else I discovered relates to the position of the clutch arm on the back of the transmission. After replacing the input hub (4 mm),  clutch friction plates (SD Tec) and the higher quality (laser cut) intermediate plate from MG Cycle I set the clutch arm as far back as possible but found the clutch was still not very progressive; it only started hooking up at the end of the handle travel. Then I tried adjusting the clutch arm farther forward while still maintaining clearance to the back of the transmission at full engagement: Much more progressive take up! Anyone else have experience with this?

Yep. That's common. You need only enough clearance to keep the throwout bearing/pushrod from spinning when not engaged.

[Groover]

I think I had mentioned something along those lines in the past in regards to the clutch lever length at the engine. I "think" the ultimate solution for the Sureflex clutches to perform correctly (or better) would be to have a conversion kit/lever to make them shorter. This is a fact on old Vespas (my ultimate analogy reference), and back in the day, we'd play off those lever lengths depending on clutch type to optimize them.

For example, here this link provides some good information on that https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/clutch+lever+sip+for+vespa+_28630400

In short, "XL2 clutch levers are made in two different length. The shorter one makes for more compression travel of the plunger, albeit with slightly stronger hands needed. The second version is easier to pull but does not compress the clutch as much"

Ok, now that I've said that, back to 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Naturally, I searched, and there is a perfectly good thread on this problem.. and Photoblockit has blurred the pictures, making it worthless. Photoblockit and all it's minions can ESAD. 
So, here's the skinny:
Sureflex plates in nice shape, but I've not read anything good about them..

Nothing else left except the flywheel, which doesn't look "too" bad at first glance..

Hmmm, maybe a closer look?

Better check where the pressure plate rides.. not too bad?

Better check the intermediate plate. It's flat, but looking at it with my 10X glass, appears to be rounded off more than I would expect. Rummaging through the boxes of spares the Previous Owner gave me produced an apparently new one.

So. As I've mentioned before in this thread.. I'm *not* a Guzzi mechanic. Is it the combination of the worn intermediate plate/worn flywheel the smoking gun, or all three? Is the flywheel a good anchor for a small boat or not? It's cough cough 280 dollars.. 

[jwinwi]

Wondering if cleaning the dust and debris from the flywheel would make any difference. Only one way to find out and I wouldn't want to take it all apart again if cleaning doesn't solve the problem...

[Tom H]

Are the friction plates feeling at all oily?

Maybe when hot they are slipping more and causing the lever to feel on and off rather than gradually engaging?

Tom

[Chuck in Indiana]

Are the friction plates feeling at all oily?

Maybe when hot they are slipping more and causing the lever to feel on and off rather than gradually engaging?

Tom

Dry as a bone. What I'm *really* wondering is if I can clean up the flywheel, maybe file on the splines a little, throw the new (apparently) intermediate plate and a couple of new clutch plates in it, and save $280?  *I don't know* how much wear is acceptable..

[Tom H]

For the flywheel, I have run worse, much worse. Clean it and see just how bad it is.

IIRR, Sureflex does have a bit of on and off instead of gradually coming on.

If this was a Loop I would put a new set of frictions in it and see what happens. Easy enough to pull again if needed.

Good luck!
Tom

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

If it were a customer's bike, I'd source another good used flywheel (Mark Etheridge?), replace the friction plates with SD-TEC and the intermediate plate with "alternate" better quality one that MG Cycle sells.

IMO, the main cause of your issues was the Sureflex friction plates.

[Chuck in Indiana]

If it were a customer's bike, I'd source another good used flywheel (Mark Etheridge?), replace the friction plates with SD-TEC and the intermediate plate with "alternate" better quality one that MG Cycle sells.

IMO, the main cause of your issues was the Sureflex friction plates.

Ok, what would you do if it was yours?   

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Ok, what would you do if it was yours?   

Same thing. 

[Chuck in Indiana]

I need to see how Mark's doing anyway..  Thanks again, Charlie. 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Just FWIW.. talked to Mark a while.  He's always a hoot.. at any rate, he said, "Sure, I'll sell you a good used plate, but I'll have to charge you close to what a new one is because I'd have to buy a $280 one from MGCycle for my restorations. Besides that, if your flywheel isn't E.M. Junk quality  that isn't your problem anyway. It's those expletive deleted expletive deleted Surflex plates."  "Just get the kit from MG with the new plates, intermediate plate and hub for $147 and be done with it." And much more, of course. 
So now, I get to talk to Cheese or Gordon and see how long they expect the back order to be.

[acogoff]

     Might go with just a cleanup and the new friction plates and intermediate plate To my mind. Looks like the intermediate may have been goofed up for some time to wear the flywheel teeth like that.

[Chuck in Indiana]

     Looks to me like the sureflex plates are tending to futsen up the flywheel teeth. I would bet that it would operate properly and go for a long time with just dedusting a new set of SD plates which have a more proper profile on their teeth than the sureflex.

Looks like we posted within 5 seconds of each other. I'll do that if I can't get the whole kit. Thanks!

[John A]

I’d be throwing new springs in there too 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Just talked to Rick..I love talking to Guzzi Guys that know their stuff..  and he spent way too much time looking through paperwork to confirm that he had a shipment on the way with 10 sets in it. Said to wait until tomorrow to order because he was working on their computer system.
So that's that.

I’d be throwing new springs in there too 

Nope. We put new springs in the Kid's 1100 Spot, and it takes two men and a boy to pull the lever. Mark said (among other things) to just check to see if they are the same length, and if they are to put them back in for just that reason.

[cliffrod]

Dry as a bone. What I'm *really* wondering is if I can clean up the flywheel, maybe file on the splines a little, throw the new (apparently) intermediate plate and a couple of new clutch plates in it, and save $280?  *I don't know* how much wear is acceptable..

Fwiw, my input hub splines were approx the same as those on your flywheel.  Filing them smooth wasn't worth the time and effort in the long run.  I tried and learned I should have replaced it the first time..  Whatever else is replaced along with it, replacing your flywheel (new or used) gets my vote.

[normzone]

If this was a Loop I would put a new set of frictions in it and see what happens. Easy enough to pull again if needed.

Easy enough to say for a guy who's where in So Cal with me.

Now, if we were in Indiana ... I'd probably  advise all new parts, since crabbing that frame looks like a piece of work.

[blackcat]

So now, I get to talk to Cheese or Gordon and see how long they expect the back order to be.

Sorry, I may have purchased their last set.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Chuck: need some of those little o-rings for the clutch pushrod?

[Chuck in Indiana]

Sorry, I may have purchased their last set.

Cheese went out of his way to find out they should have a shipment in next Thursday.  That'll give me plenty of time to clean up 30 some years worth of grunge.

[fotoguzzi]

I have a FW from a 98 EV, very little wear on the splines if you'd be interested.

[Chuck in Indiana]

I have a FW from a 98 EV, very little wear on the splines if you'd be interested.

I'll send you a PM..

[Chuck in Indiana]

Chuck: need some of those little o-rings for the clutch pushrod?

Yeah, it'll probably start leaking.  I'll buy you a uhh soda, or coffee the next time I see you. Sending you a PM, too.
Gotta love WG.. 

[John A]

So that's that. Nope. We put new springs in the Kid's 1100 Spot, and it takes two men and a boy to pull the lever. Mark said (among other things) to just check to see if they are the same length, and if they are to put them back in for just that reason.

The Spot would be a ten spring versus the paltry eight springs.  I was going to suggest Barnett springs, I don’t care for their clutch plates but they have decent springs.  Maybe a bit on the stiff side, if that’s a consideration for old wore out hands. It was what we did back in the days of old.

[Chuck in Indiana]

The Spot would be a ten spring versus the paltry eight springs.  I was going to suggest Barnett springs, I don’t care for their clutch plates but they have decent springs.  Maybe a bit on the stiff side, if that’s a consideration for old wore out hands. It was what we did back in the days of old.

My arthritic hands, especially my left from probably playing stand up bass.. really don't want a stiff clutch. I'll look into the light springs when I order the kit from Cheese.