Bad acceleration through gears

[flower_king001]

eh....

Have i been duped? Why is the PF09 about 12 times bigger than the PFC3?





That's apparently the one for my frame number, but evidently they're not interchangeable? The thick plottens.

Pain in the ass. Guess i'm drilling and hoping

The PF09 is the correct TPS for your bike and not a PFC3. To the best of my knowledge you can't interchange between the two TPS's but you can buy a new PF09 here:

https://ca-cycleworks.com/pf09.html

[fotoguzzi]

I’ll just mention about the TPS.. it is NOT the same as the 1998 and on EV. 1997 and earlier use a TPS that is physically larger that the later version. I don’t think there is a Harley version available for that model like there is for the EV. They are not cheap!

reply number 15, I warned you.

[lad]

reply number 15, I warned you.

....haha! You did...and I didn't listen for some reason...

Are there two PF09s then? And one is smaller? It wasn't not cheap, but I should be able to return it, or sell it on.

balls, thanks anyway

[lad]

The PF09 is the correct TPS for your bike and not a PFC3. To the best of my knowledge you can't interchange between the two TPS's but you can buy a new PF09 here:

https://ca-cycleworks.com/pf09.html

I have a PF09, that's my hand, my tiny hand holding a huge TPS. thanks all the same

[lad]

I don't get it, here's the Marelli data sheet for the part number, it says 70mm mounting holes, which is what I have, so is there a different injection system on the older bikes? There doesn't seem to be two PF09s

i just want the truth

[Tom H]

I think the one you have is PF09/04. Maybe the /04 means it's a different version?

Sorry to hear the wrong one came, I know you've been waiting a bit for it.

Tom

[flower_king001]

....haha! You did...and I didn't listen for some reason...

Are there two PF09s then? And one is smaller? It wasn't not cheap, but I should be able to return it, or sell it on.

balls, thanks anyway

there is only one PF09 throttle position sensor...one size

a PFC3 is a much SMALLER throttle position sensor as compared to a PF09

Are YOU sure what year/model bike you have?

I currently have 2 different bikes in the garage:

1996 Cali i >  this bike has the correct throttle position sensor  > PF09

1998 EV  > this bike has the correct throttle position sensor > PFC3

[flower_king001]

I don't get it, here's the Marelli data sheet for the part number, it says 70mm mounting holes, which is what I have, so is there a different injection system on the older bikes? There doesn't seem to be two PF09s



again..what year bike do you have?

Yes, the throttle bodies are different on the Cali i's as compared to the EV models

[lad]

there is only one PF09 throttle position sensor...one size

a PFC3 is a much SMALLER throttle position sensor as compared to a PF09

Are YOU sure what year/model bike you have?

I currently have 2 different bikes in the garage:

1996 Cali i >  this bike has the correct throttle position sensor  > PF09

1998 EV  > this bike has the correct throttle position sensor > PFC3

I thought I was sure, my logbook says manufactured in 1996, and the the frame number matches the logbook, but maybe someone just stuck that badge onto the frame...must check does it look botched.

Confusing, to say the least

[Tom H]

Could someone have changed the TB assy.?

Tom

[lad]

Could someone have changed the TB assy.?

Tom

Is that possible? Something is definitely amiss, I'd love to see pictures of the 9 in use to compare

[lad]

whaddaya know, it looks completely different...bastard s

[guzzisteve]

I don't get it, why not put on what came off.

If you actually look in parts book you'll see Guzzi used BOTH TPS's (earlier & later versions) 94-97 no indication where it splits from T3 & T4 versions

[flower_king001]

Good luck....I'm out of trying to help with this!

[fotoguzzi]

whaddaya know, it looks completely different...bastard s

image is pretty fuzzy but that doesn't look like either the 1997 cal or EV throttle body, can you get a sharper pic?

[Tom]

lad has a '96 Cali 1100i.  '97 they did a a bunch of subtle refinements before the major Cali mods to make it the '98 EV. 

[lad]

so, when i pulled the TPS to drop it, there was a smear of slightly viscous petrol...? Do you think this could be the cause of a bad TPS, or the result, or a feedback loop?

I probably only did 10 kilometers on it since taking it off, cleaning, and putting it on.

Wouldn’t mind doing valve clearances, and sourcing new injector-manifold boots, not sure how much either of these would have an effect on my problem.

shouldn’t the opposite manifold be leaking un-burned petrol also?

[fotoguzzi]

lad has a '96 Cali 1100i.  '97 they did a a bunch of subtle refinements before the major Cali mods to make it the '98 EV.

I had a 95 1100i, don't remember the TB looking anything like the fuzzy pic.
But my 95 was bullet proof and went many miles without ever looking at the TPS..



I did have to put in a new clutch at about 40k land lady not too happy about doing it in the living room.

[Vagrant]

so, when i pulled the TPS to drop it, there was a smear of slightly viscous petrol...? Do you think this could be the cause of a bad TPS, or the result, or a feedback loop?

I probably only did 10 kilometers on it since taking it off, cleaning, and putting it on.

Wouldn’t mind doing valve clearances, and sourcing new injector-manifold boots, not sure how much either of these would have an effect on my problem.

destroyed the one on my 98. sat at the dealers with gas, sun gets the gas to expand and pushes it past the shutoff valve. it drips into the TPS and gums it up. that's why they fail with low miles.

shouldn’t the opposite manifold be leaking un-burned petrol also?
it sits higher.

[lad]

how is it getting past my shutoff valve on a 10k ride? bad valve?

...bad TPS?!?!

[lad]

Here's a better pic of the '96 cali 1100i injector body








The bike itself is exactly like mine, except my throttle bodies look like this early Jackal:





only with a black plastic cap

And this 2001 EV, minus the shiny cap, same thing:





...you think someone swapped them out? Wonder why, if they did, are they even interchangeable? Wouldn't the ECU have to be re-mapped too ?

Anyone want to buy a motorcycle?

[lad]

I had a 95 1100i, don't remember the TB looking anything like the fuzzy pic.

To my eyes these two TBs are the same

A good living room should have an engine in it, beats a TV

[fotoguzzi]

So your saying you have the later version throttle body with the smaller TPS? If they had been swapped out then the plug connector would have to have been changed too?

[pehayes]

LAD:   You have a terminology error which is going to confuse people.  Just above here you post four pictures.  The third picture refers to "... injector bodies ..." on a Jackal.  What we are looking at are THROTTLE BODIES.  The actual FUEL INJECTORS are smaller, down stream, and more hidden behind the intake tract.  When I enlarge that 3rd picture, I can easily see the rounded body of a PF3C TPS under the bottom of the Throttle Body as it should be.

Also, your first of four photos is of the right side of an 1100i.  Is that your bike?  When I enlarge that right side Throttle Body picture, it seems that I can see a much larger/oval TPS mounted under the right side throttle body.  Can't have two of them!  There was earlier confusion about which TPS you have on this bike.  We've all been referring to a TPS on the left side.  Does the 1100i perhaps have it on the right side?  And thus the one you bought is actually correct to replace that right side version?  I would surely like to see images of both of your throttle bodies, from a below angle, and good lighting.  I have seen Internet images of 1100i with the larger TPS mounted under the RIGHT side throttle body.  Here is an EBAY sale and you have to study the image to realize it is laying upside down and the TPS is below the right throttle body:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/353013960402?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=353013960402&targetid=1068323860310&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9032008&poi=&campaignid=11612431353&mkgroupid=114626995633&rlsatarget=pla-1068323860310&abcId=9300456&merchantid=131375545&gclid=CjwKCAiA4rGCBhAQEiwAelVtizVe3X_D8EI5u9_0LQXxUazBELPtSgOPM42Ko0DTqERAB31saWEF4hoC4eQQAvD_BwE

Lastly, you comment about riding 10km after cleaning the TPS.  Are you just referring to an exterior, surface cleaning?  Or, did you drill a hole as I indicated and spray electronics cleaner inside?  The TPS failure occurs when contaminants insulate a portion of the resisting arc track on the inside.  Wiping off the outside just makes it look pretty and won't solve anything.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[lad]

LAD:   You have a terminology error which is going to confuse people.  Just above here you post four pictures.  The third picture refers to "... injector bodies ..." on a Jackal.  What we are looking at are THROTTLE BODIES.  The actual FUEL INJECTORS are smaller, down stream, and more hidden behind the intake tract.  When I enlarge that 3rd picture, I can easily see the rounded body of a PF3C TPS under the bottom of the Throttle Body as it should be.

Ok, changed that to throttle

Also, your first of four photos is of the right side of an 1100i.  Is that your bike?  When I enlarge that right side Throttle Body picture, it seems that I can see a much larger/oval TPS mounted under the right side throttle body.  Can't have two of them!  There was earlier confusion about which TPS you have on this bike.  We've all been referring to a TPS on the left side.  Does the 1100i perhaps have it on the right side?  And thus the one you bought is actually correct to replace that right side version?  I would surely like to see images of both of your throttle bodies, from a below angle, and good lighting.  I have seen Internet images of 1100i with the larger TPS mounted under the RIGHT side throttle body.  Here is an EBAY sale and you have to study the image to realize it is laying upside down and the TPS is below the right throttle body:

That's mad...maybe it is under the right side on an old 1100i. There's confusion everywhere, Patrick. I have said I have a PF3C on the bike, but according to literature I should have a PF09. Mine is on the left, now it should be on the right. I posted a picture in the other thread, https://ibb.co/jk6XhfV, that's the left side. I ordered a PF09 thinking I was undoing the PO's mistake, not knowing it wouldn't fit, apparently it would fit a stock 1100i, 1996, on the righthand side. Can't believe that wasn't twigged until now, fair play.

Lastly, you comment about riding 10km after cleaning the TPS.  Are you just referring to an exterior, surface cleaning?  Or, did you drill a hole as I indicated and spray electronics cleaner inside?  The TPS failure occurs when contaminants insulate a portion of the resisting arc track on the inside.  Wiping off the outside just makes it look pretty and won't solve anything.

I just soaked it in isopropyl to see would it permeate like the fuel did. I wasn't suggesting it was a solution, I only mentioned the cleaning as a point of interest to the fact that it was now covered in petrol slime, when it had been 'pretty'. I'm going to drill it now and then see.

Long and short of it, I have no idea what's going on. Maybe the entire TB/Injector assembly was swapped out? Seems too dramatic to be true

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[lad]

So your saying you have the later version throttle body with the smaller TPS? If they had been swapped out then the plug connector would have to have been changed too?

yeah, seems unlikely, although now Patrick's info suggests the whole thing would have had to have been swapped out.

Maybe it's just a bastard bike that was built during the transition from the two TPS's and the cali to the EV or the carbs to the injectors etc and doesn't match the paperwork, which I'm told is common enough.

[lad]

Well its drilled and triple-rinsed now, so I'll set the mv again and try get out for a spiníni during the week when the sun's back.

cheers

[pehayes]

LAD:  A "bastard" it is for sure.  As I wrote privately, Guzzi is famous for introducing improvements and changing parts mid-model.   I found the attached parts diagram online.  Note that there are TWO images for part #3.  Enlarging the image clearly shows the two very different TPS body shapes that we have been discussing.  So, either TPS could  be accurate for your year of production.  Just depends on which day of the week your motor rolled out of the line.  Oddly, the picture seems to indicate that either TPS shape would fit under the RIGHT side throttle body.  But, we know the smaller PF3C (which you have) fits under the left side throttle body.  File away this transition data for when you get stumped on other areas of your Frankenstein bike.   

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA





Google search these part numbers.
The upper part number  highlighted will show the smaller PF3C TPS.
The lower part number highlighted will show the larger PF09 TPS.

[usedtobefast]

Been reading this and the other thread ... might have missed this, but ... did you buy this and it was running this way at purchase time?

Or did it run fine for some number of months/miles and then started acting up more and more?   Or was it running fine and then one day it started running bad like it is now?

Have you had any discussions with the previous owner?   Be interesting to hear if they did some strange throttle body swap or this area has been worked on and parts replaced before.

Hope the drill and clean TPS works for you!

[lad]

That's the diagram I was working off, in the top left it says 3a (the small PF3C) was in production after frame 15922, and mine is 15292, so I went with the PF09, unless the frame numbers go backwards?

Actually didn't twig the right side, or that the throttle body covers are completely different. Mary Shelley owes me an apology