To MGNOC, or not to MGNOC, the threadfest

[T in NC]

Let's see if I can accurately sume up these 9 pages -

1) Someone wants a 'better' MGNOC.
2) Someone wants to know why someone else hasn't done something
3) Someone suggests that the someone actually do something instead of suggesting someone else should do something.
4) Many someone's chime in wanting someone else to do something to their liking.
5) Other someone's say it is what is is and no more.
6) Someone chimes in and says that's not good enough.


End result - more someone's leave, sell their Guzzi and then complain that Guzzi's suck and MGNOC sucks. All because no one did what they 'suggested'. Including them.

Close?

Yep, nailed it. Except you forgot about the hipster detour.

[oldbike54]

Marrionette  ??? ::)

  Dusty

[Lannis]

Marrionette  ??? ::)

  Dusty

Go ahead.  Post something like ....

"Everyone in the USA is becoming poor and poverty-stricken except for a few rich CEOs who are stealing all the money that we should have.   The government should pass a $50/hour minimum wage law and another law that says that no one can make over $100,000 a year."

... and see what happens.   No control at all, I'll just jump up and down on the strings .... Or mention how you like Apple computers, and watch THAT guy ... or mention American Indians, and watch THAT guy ....

Nope, time to quit that.

Lannis

[bad Chad]

Let's see if I can accurately sume up these 9 pages -

1) Someone wants a 'better' MGNOC.
2) Someone wants to know why someone else hasn't done something
3) Someone suggests that the someone actually do something instead of suggesting someone else should do something.
4) Many someone's chime in wanting someone else to do something to their liking.
5) Other someone's say it is what is is and no more.
6) Someone chimes in and says that's not good enough.


End result - more someone's leave, sell their Guzzi and then complain that Guzzi's suck and MGNOC sucks. All because no one did what they 'suggested'. Including them.

Close?

No, I think you missed it by a large swath.

[dilligaf]

Actually by this thread going to nine pages in a very short time tells me MGNOC is doing just fine.  :BEER:
Matt

[jdelv]

While I don't have any intention of organizing an annual rally, I have "hosted" a monthly breakfast for over a year now, hoping to drag Guzzi riders out into the sunlight.  ...  I've had so few Guzzi riders turn out I'm not sure why I still list the breakfast.

I do have some good news to report from the last MG breakfast in Rochester, NY.   8)

It's basically winter here now, we got a snow storm and it's been cold.  Last Sunday we had three Guzzi owners (the only three in our riding club actually) show up.  And while no one rode a Guzzi (I would have ridden my Griso instead of the vstrom but there was some salt residue on the roads and that just isn't acceptable), there were at least 5 motorcycles ridden to breakfast and about 10 people in total showed up (again, all from our usual riding group).  But what I enjoyed tremendously is that I got to headline and celebrate the Guzzi brand over a meal.  And maybe that's all that I really need anyways from this endeavor.  

While they love to rip on the fact that no (new) Guzzi riders typically show up at these breakfasts, and verbally abuse me to change the name, I'll never do it!

Long live the forth Sunday breakfast at the Countryside Diner in Avon, NY!   :food

[rodekyll]

Actually by this thread going to nine pages in a very short time tells me MGNOC is doing just fine.  :BEER:
Matt

I backed up and checked -- over 9000 hits.  That's funny.   :BEER:   

I don't think there is an amount you could pay for comedy of this quality.  Heck -- we even got the puppet monologs at the open mike, on either an extended run or final night, featuring Marion, who seems to be a suffragette agitating for minimum wage and better stage props, and apparently a tad touchy when asked personal questions.   :wife:  I'd say you can't make this stuff up, but why would you believe me?   

But really -- be glad it's no-cover.  If luap could afford to pay the acts all this would go away.    :-\

[oldbike54]

Think it has more to do with the health of WG than anything else . RK , would that be Marian McPartland , the famous jazz pianist  ;D

  Dusty

[rodekyll]

That's the thing about Marions.  They all spell it different but it's all the same thing.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Think it has more to do with the health of WG than anything else . RK , would that be Marian McPartland , the famous jazz pianist  ;D

  Dusty

Wow, almost forgot about her. What a great player.. I'll have to dig through the vinyl catacombs. Haven't played any of her stuff for years.  ;-T

[dilligaf]

I think they are still doing reruns on Public Radio.  ;D  :BEER:
Matt

[Bill Hagan]

That's the thing about Marions.  They all spell it different but it's all the same thing.

Yup , a bit of fancy prestidigitation fools some folks .

  Dusty

I suppose they are much the same thing, as the Maronites do "salute" the Pope, as, of course, do we of the Roman Rite.   ;)

But, as for prestidigitation, we don't see it quite the same as do the Calvinists.   ;D

Bill

[redrider90]

I backed up and checked -- over 9000 hits.  That's funny.   :BEER:   

I don't think there is an amount you could pay for comedy of this quality.  Heck -- we even got the puppet monologs at the open mike, on either an extended run or final night, featuring Marion, who seems to be a suffragette agitating for minimum wage and better stage props, and apparently a tad touchy when asked personal questions.   :wife:  I'd say you can't make this stuff up, but why would you believe me?   

But really -- be glad it's no-cover.  If luap could afford to pay the acts all this would go away.    :-\

RK you continue to amaze being spot on.
I too find it rather strange that with 9350 (now) hits and counting that is a reflection of MGNOC's health. 9300 hits is a reflection of he health of WG.
As for the health of MGNOC I think only one person knows that and it is Frank Wedge after all it is his sole proprietorship and he does not offer up any number. I am not criticizing him for it. It is his private enterprise. Good for him.  You could say the same about WG/LUAP except LUAP does it for the love of the Goose and Guzzi community and is also totally transparent with the numbers from membership to donations and on and on.  Heck even Luap and Rocker's personal info says how many members ignore them.
Speaking of ignores I was shocked to see I got my "1st" ignored by one member  ??? . I could not sleep afterwards after seeing that as I am so insecure.  :'( ;)

[blackcat]

Speaking of ignores I was shocked to see I got my "1st" ignored by one member  ??? . I could not sleep afterwards after seeing that as I am so insecure.  :'( ;)

I have accidentally ignored people due to the use of an iPad, so hopefully that is what someone did to you. I will occasionally come across someone's post who I'm ignoring and I immediately turn it off.  :-[

[Rick T.]

It's not easy to understand.   Some people have a real negative passion about the fact that Frank and the MGNOC even exist, as if it's hurting them personally.

Look at some of the war-like, paranoiac language that's been used in this one thread in relation to MGNOC.

“Assault”
“Branded”
“Jihad”
“Takeover”
“Forced on me”
“Required to pay”
“Restricted”
“Requiring payment”
“Branding” (again)”
“Unwelcome”
“Joe McCarthy”
“Gestapo”
“Belittle”
“Shame”
“Loyalty oaths”
“Enforcing”.

Nobody is requiring anything, nobody is enforcing anything, nobody is shaming anyone, no one is requiring "loyalty oaths", but this is the mindset people have.   Nobody can "take over" anything, there's no war, no assault, no jihad ... why all this negative perception?   Frank's very existence, Lannis' unwelcome opinions, MGNOC's place in the universe, can all disappear in an INSTANT and become a non-factor in your or anyone's life if you push the right button on your keyboard.

I was sitting in a cafe booth once.  Four guys were sitting in the next booth.   They were talking about "takeovers", "cliques", "constitutions", "commitments", "lies" - I thought they were plotting a coup in a Central American country.  Turns out they were part of a 12-man bass-fishing club ...  :o

Lannis

You forgot "Mafia"...

[Lannis]

You forgot "Mafia"...

Yes; the risk of waking up in bed at night and find a Galleto head at the foot of it, dripping with oil with a MGNOC sticker on it ... a very effective warning.

More than one recalcitrant Guzzi rider has been found "sleeping with the fishes" in a pond near Larned for betraying the MGNOC site username and password.

Lannis

[youcanrunnaked]

my bolds

Help me understand this:
1. What would you like the MGNOC to do regarding your two "tangible support" references above?
2. Where are you getting this enemy/bad side information from? What State reps are on that list?

Nick, the answers to both questions appear in this thread. 

The question was raised as to what would breathe new life into the MGNOC.  Plenty of answers so far; personally, I would like to see more suggestions.  Among the responses, some have questioned whether the MGNOC needs "new life."  If you think things are fine as they are, so be it.  I think the majority of answers are more in the nature of laments over missed opportunities, rather than attacks on the MGNOC and/or Frank Wedge.  In particular, I find it odd that some people would find fault in calls for a more democratic, representative, transparent, and active MGNOC.

[Arizona Wayne]

 I find it odd that some people would find fault in calls for a more democratic, representative, transparent, and active MGNOC.
[/quote]



I find it odd that you think a private business based on a MC brand needs to have a bunch of rules like a country and everything that happens in it is for all to see.  Most countries don't even operate like that, including the USA, even tho they say they will, but don't. To suggest the MGNOC is not active is ridiculous, with rallies, breakfasts,  all over the US and reps. in many of the states of the US.  The only way the reps. get paid is a free subscription of the monthly MGNOC News and any $ they might profit by for their efforts when putting on rallies, etc.   Some times they lose $ doing that.   Just like any small business.  But reps. don't do what they do to make a profit.  They do what they do to give something back to the Club for the good times they've had in it themselves.  It's a labor of love.

[rodekyll]

RK you continue to amaze being spot on.
I too find it rather strange that with 9350 (now) hits and counting that is a reflection of MGNOC's health. 9300 hits is a reflection of he health of WG.
As for the health of MGNOC I think only one person knows that and it is Frank Wedge after all it is his sole proprietorship and he does not offer up any number. I am not criticizing him for it. It is his private enterprise. Good for him.  You could say the same about WG/LUAP except LUAP does it for the love of the Goose and Guzzi community and is also totally transparent with the numbers from membership to donations and on and on.  Heck even Luap and Rocker's personal info says how many members ignore them.
Speaking of ignores I was shocked to see I got my "1st" ignored by one member  ??? . I could not sleep afterwards after seeing that as I am so insecure.  :'( ;)

Hmmm.  I know you probably didn't mean to sort of say that luap loves the goose and the community and maybe Frank does not?  I don't think you did, but before some context jumper spins it up, I'll say that I don't think anyone has questioned the love of either of them for the marquee or their respective organizations.  They've both been at it a long time, and paid or not, it's a commitment, not just a job.

[youcanrunnaked]

Wayne, maybe part of the problem is that the MGNOC is not run like most enthusiast's clubs but as a private business.  As for the rallies, at this point they exist independent of, and some might say in spite of lack of support from, the national organization. 

Look, I get it.  You like the MGNOC as it is.  Okay, one vote in favor of not changing anything.

[Stormtruck2]

I suppose they are much the same thing, as the Maronites do "salute" the Pope, as, of course, do we of the Roman Rite.   ;)

But, as for prestidigitation, we don't see it quite the same as do the Calvinists.   ;D

Bill

I say this with all due respect









You're killin me Bill  :D :D :D :D :D

  Dusty

Actually I believe it is pronounced "OH NO MISTER BILL!!!!!!

[rodekyll]

I find it odd that some people would find fault in calls for a more democratic, representative, transparent, and active MGNOC.




I find it odd that you think a private business based on a MC brand needs to have a bunch of rules like a country and everything that happens in it is for all to see.  Most countries don't even operate like that, including the USA, even tho they say they will, but don't. To suggest the MGNOC is not active is ridiculous, with rallies, breakfasts,  all over the US and reps. in many of the states of the US.  The only way the reps. get paid is a free subscription of the monthly MGNOC News and any $ they might profit by for their efforts when putting on rallies, etc.   Some times they lose $ doing that.   Just like any small business.  But reps. don't do what they do to make a profit.  They do what they do to give something back to the Club for the good times they've had in it themselves.  It's a labor of love.

Wayne, I don't think he said the mgnoc isn't active.  I think he said he'd like to see it MORE active.

But I also think your post pinpoints one of the basic problems people have with the mgnoc -- confusion over what it is.  You say it's a private business, and that's true.  But with the word 'club' in the name folks who aren't clearly told that they're subscribing to a newsletter and website, but not really joining a 'club' expect something different.  They are shocked when they discover their 'dues' don't buy them club-level participation.  Then the confusion sets in more when you redefine the private business as a 'Club' (capitol C), when you just said it is not.  So one improvement in transparency would be to call it what it is.

As has been pointed out by you and others, Frank returns none of the money sent to him to the mgnoc events.  As you say, only Frank gets paid.  The reps he has do the work for no pay, and as you say, Frank can't keep his state chapters' reps.  There could be a cause and effect relationship there -- I mean -- if someone else made money on your labor, required you to invest in an uncompensated effort and tossed you a free password to their newsletter as the only payment, how long would you last?  The state reps organize, publicize, host and supply their events themselves and hope to make up the cost through attendance fees and maybe a 50/50 raffle at the monthly breakfast.  If the costs are not met, it's the rep, not Frank who is solely responsible for the shortfall.  So it's Frank's small business and he gets paid, but it's the volunteer's risk, and they often end up paying the business loss for Frank.  You say that's the way any small business is run -- but it's not.  This is an aberration.  So another improvement to "give back to the club" could be to support your LOCAL rep -- buy 50/50 tickets at breakfast.  Add a Jackson to your event fee when you register.  Swing a ladle on the chow line.  Make the beer run.  Help police the campground as the party closes.  Put your money and energy where it's being spent on you.

[Lannis]

  So another improvement to "give back to the club" could be to support your LOCAL rep -- buy 50/50 tickets at breakfast.  Add a Jackson to your event fee when you register.  Swing a ladle on the chow line.  Make the beer run.  Help police the campground as the party closes.  Put your money and energy where it's being spent on you.

Even though it isn't required?

I like that idea.   Pretty interesting concept!  ;-T

Lannis

[redrider90]

Hmmm.  I know you probably didn't mean to sort of say that luap loves the goose and the community and maybe Frank does not?  I don't think you did, but before some context jumper spins it up, I'll say that I don't think anyone has questioned the love of either of them for the marquee or their respective organizations.  They've both been at it a long time, and paid or not, it's a commitment, not just a job.

That is a good catch RK: thanks for pointing it out.  I never for a second meant nor wanted to suggest or infer that Frank Wedge does not love Guzzi and the Guzzi community. I could see where a spin-mister might spin my words. I think what I wanted say was Luap is not in it for a profit but just for the love of pulling together an online community. Like I said I do not criticize Frank Wedge for running a private profit making enterprise out of MGNOC if in fact it does turn a profit: something I have no knowledge about. I would no more criticize any of the dealers who participate in this online forum for making a profit off their Guzzi businesses. I did draw and meant to draw the distinction between what Luap had done and Frank has done. But it was done in the context about the "health" of WG and not as a criticism of MGNOC vs WG. They are very different platforms.

[rodekyll]

Even though it isn't required?

I like that idea.   Pretty interesting concept!  ;-T

Lannis

Nope, not a requirement.  Just a suggestion to help out the folks that take the brunt of the effort and expense, since Frank does not.

[dilligaf]

David, from reading your post I have suspect you have the same opinion of MGNOC that I have about BMWMOA.   ;D  :BEER:
Matt

[bad Chad]

Good God, and I'm an agnostic!   This thing has legs! 


May winter be short for all.  That shall be my mantra this season.

[LowRyter]

confession.

For many months, perhaps years, I thought Luap's was the MGNOC board.  I used to link to Luap's through the MGNOC website when I was shopping the MGNOC classified. 

Like I said, if not world wide then USA-wide, both MGNOC and Luap cover most of the Guzzi (North America) world.

[Nick]

I used to link to Luap's through the MGNOC website

You still can. Luap is the MGNOC webmaster.

[bad Chad]

But why?