My v65 refresh

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

Hi guys,

I've got a 1984 v65 that needs some attention. I posted a bit about it over the summer but couldn't ever get it running nicely.

The bike has had a full cosmetic resto, including a swap from v65sp to v65c tank & seat, a full satin black powder coat, hand worked side covers, fresh paint, etc. PO indicated they didn't open rear drive, engine, or tranny as it has run well and had lots of maintenance documentation.

The bike has about 27k on it and seems to have been well taken care of.
 It ran well the first couple months I had it, but soon started acting up. It would start & run briefly but would then refuse to idle & died frequently. Waiting 10/15min it would restart but then not run much further.

After futzing around with the idle screws and other bits (big thanks to Chuck & kevdog who offered suggestions!) I never could get it to run for more than a few minutes.

I did a little thinking and realized my problems had nothing to do with idle or carb adjustment...  My carbs are full of junk! Flashlight inspection of the fuel tank seemed to verify there could be some rust/crud issues.

I don't know much of anything about working on engines.. And deff not carbs! The only thing I know about carburetor sis that Daisy Duke has to assemble one blindfolded to win the 'Miss Hazzard' pageant.. What can I say, Daisy made a strong impression on the young Mayor.

So workspace or experience, or a knowledgeable person to help be damned! I'm going to fix this sucker if it takes all winter! I don't have a shop or even a workbench.. just hand tools, and I live in a little duplex; but I'm fairly handy and I worked as a bicycle mechanic for two years...  what could go wrong? right?

So I chocked up the truck ramp on my front steps...  terrified my 100lb girlfriend with instructions (she was on 'squeeze the front brake' duty) and pushed the sucker up on the deck and into the living room  ;D


Bachelor pad

SO my bike needs, and I hope you will help me with the following!

* Oil pressure Sending unit
* install tranny breather mod
* gotta pull the airbox to do that.. so..
* install pod filters & ditch airbox
* build a new crankcase breather system
* pull old rusty tank and replace
* swap the seat while yr at it
* rebuild carbs w/o rust in them & swap jets if needed for the pods
* figure out why the tach stopped working
* rear drive scnorr washer update mod
* drill rear drive oil passage mod
* trim the rear fender as needed to accommodate the new seat, and relocate signals/wiring so the rear wheel doesn't scrub the harness (a problem when riding 2up)
* shorten the clutch cable

If I get really crazy and somehow finish all that, i'll look at:
* replacing all the switchgear, throttle, and levers
* maybe change the dash if I've killed the tach
* install Lario lower frame rails (found on eBay)  and move the pegs back

Here's the initial mock-up  ;-T

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

I got a used V7 tank and to my surprise.. It's fits pretty dang good!

The tank lacks all the fixtures, so first order of business is to get a gas cap on it and a block-off plate for the fuel pump hole






Yep! it's gonna work!

That hole will be filled with this cap  ;D



This is beyond my fabrication abilities, but now that I have my little template, I will be trying to figure out how to get my ring made!

In the meantime, if you have a nylon-tank V7 and have the fuel pump out.. would love a tracing of the base plate!  ;-T

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

did you know the airbox is a real SOB to get outta there? Yeah that may have been mentioned a time or two!



I actually ordered all the parts & tore the bike down this far before I peeked in the carbs to confirm my diagnosis!

Luckily i think I guessed right  :o





I know nothing about carbs.. just what I "learned" in intro to automotive tech in 9th grade...

I am going to use this write-up to tear down and rebuild the carbs: http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_carburetor_rebuild_-__vhb.html
I know it's not exactly the same carb but this has got to be better than going in blind! Also, I can't find anything this in-depth on the PHBH carb but if anyone knows of something like this for the SB carbs, please post up a link!

I'm going to do the carbs start to finish, one at the time.. that way I can use one as the model while I rebuild the other.
I have no idea what jets in here, but GuzziSteve told me the apropos jetting for pods on a v65.. I guess we'll see what we need once I disassemble!

[Unkept]

Cool thread!

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

Thanks kept! You & I can form the 'we don't need no stinkin workbench' club!

***********************



The Transmission breather & oil pressure sending unit are straight bolt in & out



I was warned not to turn the rear wheel while doing the sending unit.. The tip does something important!

As for the tyranny breather.. Why was this spring under the mushroom plug? Should it be installed under the barb fitting?




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[guzzisteve]

You need the spring under your vent, the plunger is still in the trans. It is your detent for the trans shifter drum. W/O it it don't click & stay.
Need a shop manual?   http://www.guzzitek.org/gb/ma_us_uk/V35V50V65Atelier_041983%28GB%29.pdf
How is fuel coming out of the tank?

[Chuck in Indiana]

into the living room

;D ;-T
Chad, one good turn deserves another.  ;D I made a fuel pump block off plate for Rosie when I lined her tank.
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=62087.0

*If it is the same*.. look in parts manuals and make sure it is the same part number.. I'll make one for you out of aluminum. Let me dig through my "good junk" pile and see if I have some. You'll also need that big hunker gasket to seal it.
I'll also make that filler neck part, but your cardboard template isn't good enough. I'll need a real one to get the geometry.

More than you probably want to know in the Lario rehab thread. A search will find it. I made a gizmo for nothing for the transmission vent, but IIRC, a big block vent will interchange.

[Bill Hagan]

Impressive thread!

And, your girlfriend is a sport on several levels.  Kathi is terrified to do the "help move" the Guzzis, but does it cheerfully with only occasional drama involving the laws of physics.   ;D

Looking forward to the tales of your progress ... and the inevitable expletives or three.   ;)

Best,

Bill

[Chuck in Indiana]

did you know the airbox is a real SOB to get outta there? Yeah that may have been mentioned a time or two!

Oh, no problem if you have a SawsAll..  ~; :BEER:

[BPRM]

Nice! I like the look a lot better, and always wanted an inside bike for the winter. It just goes to show what a few years of ethanol in the gas will do to your carb. Have fun.

[fotoguzzi]

if the gas cap and flange that mounts on tank are the same as an EV (looks like it) I will give you the whole set up complete with key/ it looks the same but someone with both bikes could confirm it? might be a lot easier than making a plate.

[Chuck in Indiana]

if the gas cap and flange that mounts on tank are the same as an EV (looks like it) I will give you the whole set up complete with key/ it looks the same but someone with both bikes could confirm it? might be a lot easier than making a plate.

 ;-T

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

To Chuck & Fotoguzzi...

The gas cap ring

OD 120mm
ID (for the cap I have in mind) 1.5"
Thickness ~2mm
The bolts holes are m5 and 60mm ctc
The PCD of the bolt holes is 102.06 mm


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[Dimples]

You might want to put the transmission breather and its spring back together the way it was designed.

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

The shift detent spring is back in under the barb.. I put it in originally just took the pic cause I wasn't sure *exactly* what it was for.

******************

I spend a long time last night looking for the emails from GuzziSteve with the jetting and filters..
I cannot find those SOB's anywhere.. I must have deleted by accident :-( They have been in my inbox for over a year then POOF gone

My carbs have been re-jetted from stock.. Euro jetting *i think*

I am going to run stock headers & x-over pipe with Busso pipes off a Lario and the pod filters

If Steve or anyone has a good jetting baseline for that setup please let me know!

I'm going to crack open the carbs tonight & see what jets are in there & start the cleaning

*****************

I do have a question on the pods... I'm sure Steve recommended something besides K&N but that info was in the jetting email I lost :-(

They had bright red rubber cages and I'm pretty sure they were 45 degree instead of straight?? I'm pretty sure it was a German or Italian company but not K&N or BMC.. Someone I had never heard of.

I did order one of these to test fit up...
http://www.knfilters.com/mobile/mProduct.aspx?&prod=RU-2930
I got free shipping with amazon Prime so of it doesn't work I can send it back

Oh yeah obligatory pic.. Here's why my carbs are full of junk!

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

;D ;-T
Chad, one good turn deserves another.  ;D I made a fuel pump block off plate for Rosie when I lined her tank.
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=62087.0

*If it is the same*.. look in parts manuals and make sure it is the same part number.. I'll make one for you out of aluminum. Let me dig through my "good junk" pile and see if I have some. You'll also need that big hunker gasket to seal it.
I'll also make that filler neck part, but your cardboard template isn't good enough. I'll need a real one to get the geometry.

More than you probably want to know in the Lario rehab thread. A search will find it. I made a gizmo for nothing for the transmission vent, but IIRC, a big block vent will interchange.

Well chuck that's mighty nice!

According to the Harper's website those bikes have different parts numbers
The '10 v-7 is #978930
The v11 sporty one is a #01107290

No idea if the footprint is the same!
I'll take some measurements off this tank, maybe you can compare them to your CAD of your block-off plate.

I figure it's pretty possible the pump is a diff part # but the bung is the same size/bolt pattern


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[Mayor_of_BBQ]

See chuck if you had taken this bike for the Aero engine you would still be futzing with this tank instead of halfway through your engine swap!


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[balvenie]

Mayor,
        Just a thought about dismantling the carbs. One at a time is Good ;-T
        The carbs on my old BM were mirror images. Make drawings in a note pad.
           You have an excellent GF ;-T

[Chuck in Indiana]

See chuck if you had taken this bike for the Aero engine you would still be futzing with this tank instead of halfway through your engine swap!


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Oh, I knew it issues that would bother me until I had them sorted out. I've BTDT already with the Lario..  ;D

[Perazzimx14]

Carbs are easy. Follow thisoldtractor and you'll be fine. To clean them once dissembled soak in 100% original PineSol for 12 to 24 hours. Rinse with hot water and inspect. If still dirty another soak and a used toothbrush are your friend. The tank is also salvageable. A gallon of milkstone remover and top the rest of the tank off with warm water. Let soak 24 hours and it'll be clean as a whistle.  All the rust will be gone. Rinse out tank with hot water. Empty out as goo as you can then pour in some 90% rubbing alcohol a or a bottle or so of Heet. It will help to absorb the remanding water. Alcohol likes to bind with water.

[BPRM]

Yes it was jetted to euro spec as per Guzziology, but I don't remember what sizes they were.

[guzzisteve]

Malossi filters for PHBH carbs from Herdan Corp,Port Clinton, PA

[kevdog3019]

Great to see you didn't give up and are doing the necessary steps to make it run spiffy!  No reason after what you are doing that it shouldn't scoot nicely for you.  I like the seat/tank mod.  What about those side covers?  Carbs are easy.  I'd check yours against normal perimeters and let us know.  Changes I've made with pods/exhaust didn't amount to any change in jets surprisingly.  Don't just assume you need to change anything.  I wouldn't change jets until I rode it and inspected the plug chops (and possibly played with my needle a bit).  You need to run it with good gas before you know anything from what your past posts have indicated.  Keep us updated.   ;-T
Kevin   

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

I got one of my carbs disassembled, soaked and clean..


I did commit two boo-boos, hopefully you guys can tell me not all is lost

Boo-Boo #1
I must have missed a couple of the paper gaskets on tear-down (there are a few more in the PHBH than in the loop carb on this old tractor)..  Once I got the carb soaking they came out.
I did not get fresh gaskets & o-rings, as these carbs were totally rebuilt under 1000k mi ago. and were not gunky, just clogged with rust.
I took the pinesol-soaked gaskets, rinsed them, and placed them between paper towels under a heavy toolbox to press them dry.
Do you think this has compromised the gaskets?  I am going to put it back together but I don't forsee testing them with gas for months.

Boo-Boo #2
I prob should have not soaked the carbs in pinesol; as I said they weren't gunky, just clogged.
I took it apart and lo-n-behold I ended up letting them soak almost 3 days before I scrubbed rinsed & dried it.

This is what the pinesol did to the slide  :o


So new slide at a minimum, I guess I will go ahead and order a gasket kit :-(

[Groover]

I do also think I would get a lot more done on my bike this winter if I could just tinker on it in the warm living room watching TV!.. Wow on the slide, NAPA sells a good carb cleaner for soaking (comes in a 1 gallon can).

All is looking good!

[Guido Valvole]

I like what you're doing. Was your bike originally a regular V65 or the cruiser version? V7 tank fits with minor finagling only? How are you going to attach the seat, as it's quite different underneath than the V50 seats, which are presumably not too different from the V65?

I used the Café seat on my V50. Could have made up something complicated but ended up just using hose clamps. Hey, what holds a Guzzi together anyway? A little tricky to get at the tool kit but better security for it, and it's the most comfortable motorcycle seat my butt has ever sat on.

You're right about the airbox. PITA and gets in the way of everything. Pods on the V50, still have the stock box on the Monza as it works perfectly and if it ain't broke… but getting to anything is a major hassle and I have small hands. At some point it will get tossed.

Keep up the good work!
cr

[kevdog3019]

Did you take the complete carb fully assembled and submerge it for three days?  Not sure how caustic that stuff is but by the looks it did a number on things. I'd rebuild the plastic/rubber/gasket bits by the looks of that metal. I would have disassembled and did a quick washing/rinsing/blowout with air. Your slide plating looks toasted. I hope your floats are ok as new ones are worthless, but your float jet seats that are rubber-tipped I'd inspect or simply replace.  Anything that's not metal likely was compromised.
Nothing a few dollars can't get back.
Kevin

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

Did you take the complete carb fully assembled and submerge it for three days?  Not sure how caustic that stuff is but by the looks it did a number on things. I'd rebuild the plastic/rubber/gasket bits by the looks of that metal. I would have disassembled and did a quick washing/rinsing/blowout with air. Your slide plating looks toasted. I hope your floats are ok as new ones are worthless, but your float jet seats that are rubber-tipped I'd inspect or simply replace.  Anything that's not metal likely was compromised.
Nothing a few dollars can't get back.
Kevin

Kev,

I totally disassembled the carbs

I soaked all the metal bits

Did not soak the o-rings or gaskets (except the two I missed~ which I fished out within a couple hours). I also did not soak the plastic cap over the slide or the float itself!

Slide is most deff roasted.. It feels like concrete texture lol

Luckily Hearndon had a euro slide, gasket kit, & the Malossi filters all in stock!


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[Mayor_of_BBQ]

Also kev, the metal looks a bit dark in the pic owing to the cat-proof "don't steal my jets & O-ring dome" :-)


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[Chuck in Indiana]

Also kev, the metal looks a bit dark in the pic owing to the cat-proof "don't steal my jets & O-ring dome" :-)


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Ol Radar.. RIP.. A Maine Coon, would have had that dome off there in a heartbeat if he thought is was interesting.  ;D