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Watch any Motor Officer competition and you will quickly see that that is wrong . At slow speeds you steer into the turn . Dusty
Turning into my driveway at a slow speed, 7 -10 mph, I am definitely turning the bars into the turn just like a three wheeler.
Below a certain speed you are actually steering the bike instead of leaning , thus countersteering doesn't come into play . Think about it , when you are moving a bike around in the garage you steer it in the desired direction of travel .
I forget now where the article was published , or the exact details , but above a certain speed (300 MPH maybe) , car steering reverses , then above a certain speed (400 MPH ?) it returns to normal . Explain that , go ahead , we'll wait patiently Dusty
The reason for that is below a very low speed, I would judge 5 mph or slower versus 7-10 mph, centrifugal force is not a major player. However, when you turn the steering in a certain direction, geometric trail moves the contact patch away from the centerline of bike in the opposite direction. The bike then falls into the turn in the direction the bars are turned. Above the very low transition speed where centrifugal force starts to act, the effect of trail in this regard is negligible and counter steering works.
I love the stories where someone says "I was counter steering as hard as I could around the turn" Still haven't figured out how you counter steer the full corner It clicked in my head when "as at least one mentions above" you push the arm/shoulder/hand on the side you want to turn as you lean. Until then I couldn't get my head around it. Only, like several also mention, that I was already doing it! But once you understand it, you can refine it.
This!
Actually centrifugal force has very little to do with what makes the bike lean, its the Gyroscopic forces that do that.The spinning wheel is like a gyro, and at lower rpm the forces are very small but are proportional to rpm and become quite strong.Turning a spinning gyro (w/handlebars) will cause it to tilt resulting in the lean. It will tilt 90 degrees in the direction of the spin opposite to the turning force applied.:-)
In most AC it would be the ailerons or the rudder...causing to AC to bank, which that alone would not result in a turn without using the elevator (pitch control). Your operating in 3 dimensions no? Motos do not.Gyroscopic forces cause the moto to lean (bank?) and due to the dynamics of a single track vehicle leaning will cause the machine to turn. However that is only at speeds of 10mph or so normally. Under that you Steer the moto with the bars.And your point ?, as I can see no connection to a moto's turnings physics and an aircraft...:-)
Watch any Motor Officer competition and you will quickly see that is wrong . At slow speeds you steer into the turn . Dusty
The only way you can do that is if you keep the bike vertical and they don't. You always initiate the turn by countersteering. Once the bike drops into the turn, then the wheel follows the turn. If you are going along at any speed including crawling along and you try and turn the handlebars to the left thinking you are going to go left you will find yourself laying on the ground on your right side.
Watch the short video in my #53 post and tell me the rider isn't leaning the bike into the turn and steering into the turn at the same time..
About 2:40ish coming from middle sized to large you see the countersteer on transition - slight jostle on the bars.The small input needed would be hard for an external observer to see - for me it used to be a slight pressure on the bar.
If initiating a turn a very low speed requires no countersteer input as popular opinion suggests, how is the lean inwards in the direction of the turn generated, to counteract the centrifugal force ?
I think it’s become less about who is right and more about who do you want to upset the least..When someone with a solid explanation based on physics enters the argument, it’ll be time to sit up again and take notice.At the moment, the core WG respondents remind me of the first divisions of a single called organism.A fair bit of jostling for sides before hostilities commence.Most people have figured out by now where the strength lies. I can’t reach the dump button from my side..Bugger..!BTWIf initiating a turn a very low speed requires no countersteer input as popular opinion suggests, how is the lean inwards in the direction of the turn generated, to counteract the centrifugal force ?
Well allrighty then...!!!That will do nicely. A succinct and accurate explanation.
You mean like Kirby ? No one is arguing counter steering , it might be good to actually read what some are saying , fair enough > Dusty
The ones that say they steer directly into a turn at very low speeds ARE disputing the countersteering argument and it is the only aspect I fundamentally disagree with.