Anudder kweshun

[HardAspie]

Yes, that is also on my list of potentials. Thank you!

[Kev m]

In 32 years of Guzzi ownership, I can count on one hand (with fingers left over) the number of times I've worked on my old Guzzis "on the side of the road". In the same period of time, to count the number of newer "wonder bikes" I've seen stranded and unfixable along side the road would require that I remove both of my shoes. 

And the terrible burden of setting my points and timing, cleaning the float bowls out and syncing the carbs once a year! Oh, the agony... 

In only a little more than 2 decades of riding and a couple of hundred thousand miles, ALL with solid state ignitions and more than half with EFI the ONLY things that have ever left me stranded were:

1. an ignition switch
2. a single flat tire

BOTH would have occurred on the same bike regardless of carbureters or EFI.

Personally, with more than two decades in the repair/service industry (mostly on the repair info/data side of the industry, which gives me insight into failure/repair patterns etc.) I'll say that there is no doubt that your chances of being left strande are lower the more modern the machine.

Luddites will claim the old stuff can be fixed on the side of the road, but truth is that's only because THEY WILL HAVE TO when the newer stuff is much less likely to require it.

YMMV, but not statistically and I wouldn't hesitate to buy another V7. Fwiw, if you can't get over the ludditism, then take solace that the V7 has the least amount of additional modern tech when compared to the average modern vehicle.

[Kev m]

Guys, I love airheads, but the NEWEST ones are antiques.

Everything breaks, everything wears out.

Seals and diaphragms age... Insulation hardens and cracks, electronic components become vulnerable.

At least if you buy a new bike you're starting baseline with everything BRAND NEW!

I'm not putting down old bikes, but let's not pretend they are less likely to strand you.

[HardAspie]

Yeah, that era Bimmer might be it.

I've been in the real world. Being single does not allow for a division of labour, and then I like to walk at least four miles per day, been out of time.

Much is whirling about in my head. Ya know, I was riding bikes in the seventies. . .and never got stranded due to carbs or points or such. But then, I stayed ahead of the potential issues. Best is to do a tune early enough that the bike feels the same before and after. I carried the last set of points and condenser and plugs (plugs cleaned and gapped for easy install.) and never had to use them. Felt good to have them aboard though. I don't mind tinkering...is okay. I do not like actual break downs.

The worst on the road fail I ever had was when a stone cut the center stand spring of my CB 350 quite a distance out. I had to look about at road debris to find a thing that would hold the stand up to get me to shop to buy a replacement. Added bailing wire and duct tape to my kit!

[HardAspie]

And you see,that is the issue:

New and no wear on the bike. Technology I dislike.

Old and tech I like but possibly pre broken.

[HardAspie]

1980 is new! You got it.

(dang, where'd the time go? Wait! don't answer that!)

[Kev m]

And you see,that is the issue:

New and no wear on the bike. Technology I dislike.

Old and tech I like but possibly pre broken.

Realistically, what tech is the problem?

Fwiw the V7 is basically what the Airhead might have become (if the motor had more character) if it remained in production till today.

There is very little tech for the sake of it.

It's all arguably "old school" tech at this point. No less or more magical than breakerlessc ignitions.

[Kev m]

Guys, my wife was born in 1980, and as of last year she'd had 27 YEARS of school...

... And she's old. 

[HardAspie]

Well, my problem is that I  have had on the road issues with automotive electronics.
I know that my (automotive) mechanic has said these things:
   Re: being a mechanic and so being able to fix his car if something happens on the road: "No, I can't I wouldn't have my shop. Have to get it towed to a shop like
         anyone else."
   Re: my question of what tool kit would I need to take care of this thing on the road: - Holds up his cell phone.

[HardAspie]

Kev M

Don't let her hear you say that!

[Kev m]

Well it's just one data point, but you've got my experience in between a 1/4 and 1/2 million miles. And if you add my cars into it then we're easily past 1/2M miles. And my EFI cars, even those that went past 250k miles, have always been more reliable than the carb ones.

As for Jenn, she's working a 15 hour moonlight shift  bless her heart, but she'd laugh and point out I'm still 13 years older. 

[HardAspie]

That time compression is real. I took a decade out of my life to care for my mother; least i could do since she had cared so much for me! Probably added 20 years to me. And while so much life has seemingly passed in a slow drag; now that it is past it is but a blur.

Ya see, my electronic experience has not been so sanguine. GM electronics have treated me well, but FoMoCo (oh I dread having to say that I have owned such!) have not been so good. Mopar is questionable. Suzuki automotive has been far less than satisfactory. (Yeah, cars and trucks: mom care, snowy climate, architecture eliminated 2 wheelers for a while.) What I really dislike about tronics is that if one burps, I have no idea why.

[Kev m]

Well, this is what I do for a living, but what's different about a carb bike? If either burps, you check for spark and fuel. Realistically spark is checked the same way. Fuel is probably happening if you hear a fuel pump, and if it's worth there is a trouble light.

And if it's worse, I've never had to do it, but there's always Uhaul.

But then go back to the basic premise, it's so much less likely to happen, why waste time worrying.

[HardAspie]

Not saying I will insist on a mechanical bike. But as I said, I've been stranded by electronics more than twice. I'm just a bit wary.

[Kev m]

Hey, I get it, do what makes you feel warm and fuzzy.

But look again at the vehicle choices and maintenance, maybe the answer is there. Or maybe it is brand. Or maybe dumb luck.

But what type of failures are we talking about? Again, the fallacy is believing that a 1980's bike doesn't use electricity too. There are still solid state components in most cases, and they are now antiques and were built with lower standards with regards to materials and tech.

Every indication in the industry is that components last longer and are more reliable than ever. So anything that is 20 years old was less reliable 20 years ago when it was new and before things started breaking down because of use and atmospheric exposure.

Again, not saying anything can't break, just suggesting those who feel warm and fuzzy about the old stuff being less likely to are buying into classic myths, ones that we feel predisposed to believe, but that doesn't make them more true.

[HardAspie]

I think you misunderstand.

Not about feeling anything. About experience. Specifically my experience. Not saying I will get a prehistoric bike. I might. I put a lot of miles on those and was never stranded. I have not had an ECU, EFI, ABS. . . bike. I have had cars and trucks. My experience has been spotty. I have had to walk out of the woods due to electronic failures. Not feeling. Thinking.

[oldbike54]

 Of course if complete reliability is the primary concern , buy a Honda (GASP) 

  Dusty

[HardAspie]

Reliable and involving as a refrigerator.

Actually, my CB 750F S2 was good. The Mold Wing that followed it was a disaster. I'd love a non Japanese bike!

[Kev m]

I think you misunderstand.

Not about feeling anything. About experience. Specifically my experience. Not saying I will get a prehistoric bike. I might. I put a lot of miles on those and was never stranded. I have not had an ECU, EFI, ABS. . . bike. I have had cars and trucks. My experience has been spotty. I have had to walk out of the woods due to electronic failures. Not feeling. Thinking.

Nope, I didn't misunderstand a thing. YOUR experiences are making you FEEL a certain way.

I'm telling you that my experiences alone don't justify my advice for you to abandon that feeling.

I'm telling you that industry wide statistics suggest your feelings are based on out-dated or never representative data.

I'm addressing your feelings because it sounds like your feelings are holding you back, not logic.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not dismissing them... Just suggesting you respond to them differently IF you want to drive your decisions by logic instead of emotion.

[HardAspie]

Ummmm, I have Asperger's Syndrome. Logic is my native software.

I am aware that my older bikes had trouble prone systems that required much maintenance to keep right. I did that and they performed well.
I am aware that my recent vehicles with electronics have had issues with things like TPS, MAF, In tank fuel pumps, ignition modules, Hall Effect sensors, stub wiring harnesses, ECU issues, transmission electrohydraulic actuators. . . and such.
I am aware that I am taking my experience into account in generating a decision matrix.

[Lash]

I think our individual preferences also depend on the stage of our life.  When I was younger, I liked the challenge of constantly tweaking and fiddling with my machines, getting them ever more perfectly tuned (or so I imagined), trying to improve on what the manufacturer engineered.  Now, not so much.  My current bike ('16 V7II Stone) just works.  Every time.  It stays in perfect tune.  No floats of float valves to get stuck, no points that arc and get out of adjustment, no need to synchronize anything.  Push the start button, it starts.  It purrs at speed, goes where I point it, and stops when I want it to.  Life is good.

I have the same attitude. The good old days were fun during the good old days.

[Yukonica]

Which way is the wind blowing? I feel the need to P.

[HardAspie]

Find a place with no wind! That is dangerous! 

[Kev m]

Ok, last post because I don't want to berate anyone.

If logic is your guide, then let it be. Don't cloud your judgment with extremely limited personal experience. Look at (Google) industry statistics and reports of reliability.

If that's the ultimate metric, abandon small, largely unsupported marques like MG and go for the reputations.

But don't bend statistics to fit one person's (your or my) limited experiences. Unless you can assert some conditions you're subjecting these vehicles to in order to produce a pattern of failures not normally expected.

No matter what you choose, I wish you miles and miles of smiles.

Most of all, RIDE SAFE!!!

Kev

[HardAspie]

Yeah. I think this thread has dome all that it might.

Dang I wish my keyboard didn't bounce so much.

Thanks all for info!

[oldbike54]

 Modern Bonneville .

  Dusty

[HardAspie]

Also considered. Still tronic, and I kinda like the V7's easily gotten to valves. And the V7 is about 100 lb lighter. Still, the Bonnie is nice. Many factors to ponder, and several bikees to ponder as well.

see that doubled e? Keyboard bounce. That is why I distrust electronics.   

[HardAspie]

All true!

In my quest I even looked (gasp!) at 883 Sporty. Don't much like it.

[Vasco DG]

What Charlie said. However, if is some old suspenders wearing turd that doesn't get fixed if it ain't broke, something is ready to break.    If you maintain your old Guzzi in like new mechanical condition, it will run forever.

Exactly. There is nothing wrong with older Guzzis, I still own several although they are off the road at the moment.

An old Guzzi is a glorious thing if it ticks all your boxes and it has been properly maintained. What annoys me is this idea that the new ones are any more unreliable than the old ones if they are maintained properly. Yes there may well be a few bikes out there that come ex-factory with problems but I saw plenty of those 'Back in the day' too, but generally I find the new ones BETTER than most of the old ones in terms of problems.

The biggest fly in the ointment is that many, many shops and 'Technicians' don't understand how the newer systems work. Generally speaking they are super-reliable but if you screw around with them without understanding what you are doing you are guaranteeing that your bike, (Or the one you are working on!) will run like a bag of boiling shit and then  people blame the bike and the technology rather than the shaved ape who screwed up.

A bike like Charlie's is obviously going to be constantly trimmed and fettled as needed. There are though a host of horrid old shitters out there that are nominally *The same bike*. The reality is very, very different.

Pete

[sidecarnutz]

A Loopframe Guzzi "too complicated"?    Seriously?

I still have a '73 Eldo (That I would like to sell) and my trusty '90 Cali III which will become a sidecar rig this Fall!

I AM really enjoying the old Enfield though. Fun bike when run within it's limitations. Parts are easy to get and quite inexpensive too.