Anudder kweshun

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

A bike like Charlie's is obviously going to be constantly trimmed and fettled as needed.

Pete

My own bikes? Uh, no. Customer bikes get all the "love", my own suffer from neglect other than tires, batteries and maintenance. Yet they remain almost totally reliable...

[HardAspie]

You know, I rode many bikes from the no computers ear and never had a problem. My troubles generally are with newer and more electroniced stuff. As you all have read before, there is some time between now and buying anything. I am thinking hard of pre electronic Guzzis. They were already tough and powerful enough for my wants, and no computers. My thinking is that for the price difference new / older, I could afford to deal with a few issues and therefore end up with a reliable bike that needs service that I can provide.

[Chuck in Indiana]

You know, I rode many bikes from the no computers ear and never had a problem. My troubles generally are with newer and more electroniced stuff. As you all have read before, there is some time between now and buying anything. I am thinking hard of pre electronic Guzzis. They were already tough and powerful enough for my wants, and no computers. My thinking is that for the price difference new / older, I could afford to deal with a few issues and therefore end up with a reliable bike that needs service that I can provide.

That's my thought, too, from what you've said. Just start with a good one.

[HardAspie]

From Chuck in Indiana: (i have no idea how to do quotes!) (computers are not my thing)

"That's my thought, too, from what you've said. Just start with a good one."

Thanks! I think it is a good start. I have developed a plan:
1. Use the time I must take between now and then to study. This site is great. Find a model that should meet my needs, bearing in mind that even Guzzi has made models with issues to be avoided; whether service related or weight.
2. Shop; take my time
3. Buy a good one
4. Ride it and see:
    A. Do I like Guzzis?
    B. Do I like that specific one?
    C. Did I get a goodie or several hundred pounds of problems?
5. Decide whether to keep it of bail out fast and try again
6. Then I can refresh it and set up for my needs as desired
7. Coincident with (6) enjoy! and maintain forever

[HardAspie]

Laura , look straight to the right of the topic line , little blue quote thingie . Trust me , you are better with pooters than me 

  Dusty

OhHolyNed!  Blind as a bat Laura! If it was a snake. . .

[HardAspie]

 Seriously , my skills are inferior to anyone's here , some of our smart guys have tried to assist me , to no avail . Rodekyll says it's like trying to teach a raccoon calculus 

  Dusty

We might be tied! You are no longer alone. I make the things work, after a fashion, but just barely. I wasn't raised on them. They mystify me still.

[rodekyll]

 Seriously , my skills are inferior to anyone's here , some of our smart guys have tried to assist me , to no avail . Rodekyll says it's like trying to teach a raccoon calculus calcium.

  Dusty

Fixed it.  I hate being misquoted by others.  It's bad enough when I do it to myself.   

[HardAspie]

I'm quoting myself, but I never said that!

[HardAspie]

You know,  this is a great forum!

[MGPilot]

One way to look at it is the same way some people compare new to old sports cars or new to older airplanes.

Do you primarily want to ride and use it for transportation (more capable of longer trips without maintenance/repairs along the way)?

or

Do you want it primarily as a life style of fiddling and recreation (more character, better suited for local/regional rides; still capable of longer trips...but may be more adjusting/work along the way)? 

Transportation - newer bike -- and you will meet more people at your destinations.
Recreation/fiddling - older bike -- and you meet more people on your trip while fiddling with it and through parts hounding, etc. Would you take particular pride in the fact that it's running due to your efforts?  Is a day in the garage fiddling with it as or more rewarding than a ride?

Just depends on how you want to spend your time and what puts a smile on your face.  A friend was asked why he didn't get a newer sports car. He replied that with a new car, he wouldn't have anything to do in the winter.

[rodekyll]

Uh , is calcium part of the curriculum at the University of Alaska ? That might explain a few things 

  Dusty

Simple life, simple concepts.  Calcium is easier to understand than calculus.

[oldbike54]

Simple life, simple concepts.  Calcium is easier to understand than calculus.

 Tastes better also .

  Dusty

[HardAspie]

Well, new v old.

Would an older Guzzi ridden a bit and then refurbished as needed, and then maintained well be any less reliable than it was new? I would think not. Then all it would need is tinkering with mainly ignition, then valves, then carbs. I don't mind that. Indeed, as I got newer and newer Japanese bikes, I got ever more complex bikes needing strange tools and techniques taught to shop mechanics. I could do less and less. I missed the connection that fiddling gave me. I used old tech bikes (not old tech at the time!) as only vehicles. Took some effort, but that was okay.

Hey, I have osteoporosis, think a course in calcium would help?

[nick949]

Do you primarily want to ride and use it for transportation (more capable of longer trips without maintenance/repairs along the way)?

Dan - http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=76882.0 has made from California to Newfoundland and is currently back in Minnesota on his way home. Apart from oil changes and now a new tyre (after 10,000 miles), his 73/4 Eldorado has been completely trouble free.

A properly prepared bike - of any age - is capable of just about anything.

Nick

[HardAspie]

Thanks Nick, that is my guess too.

I mean: some of us geezers were actually riding bikes before they had computational power greater  than a Lunar Rocket and GPS. I got where I was going.

[rodekyll]

Aspie -- you say you're governed by logic, but your rejection of modern bikes (technologies) isn't fact-based.  It stands on subjective beliefs acquired empirically, years ago, that may no longer apply.  Folks are trying to tell you facts about current technology.  You're arguing against those modern facts with opinions based in antiquity.  I'm not saying that nonrational decisionmaking isn't a valid way to live, but please don't call it logic.

$0.02

[Chuck in Indiana]

I'd say that she's being logical if she doesn't want the specter of a broken immobilizer antenna in Bumsquat, Utah ruining her day.  Or..just in the back of her mind.

[Guzzistajohn]

Modern Bonneville .

  Dusty

  best advice! My Triumph dealer is nearby, helpful and eager to please!

[HardAspie]

I'd say that she's being logical if she doesn't want the specter of a broken immobilizer antenna in Bumsquat, Utah ruining her day.  Or..just in the back of her mind.

That is pretty much what I am weighing. Damned immobilizer antennas have indeed immobilized me more than twice.

[Kev m]

Aspie -- you say you're governed by logic, but your rejection of modern bikes (technologies) isn't fact-based.  It stands on subjective beliefs acquired empirically, years ago, that may no longer apply.  Folks are trying to tell you facts about current technology.  You're arguing against those modern facts with opinions based in antiquity.  I'm not saying that nonrational decisionmaking isn't a valid way to live, but please don't call it logic.

$0.02

+1 Brazilian.

And the fictitious specter of an immobilizer that doesn't even exist on some bikes, like the V7, doesn't provide an argument against logic.

Look, do what you want, but don't pretend it's science when it's divining.

Fact

Modern vehicles are statistically more trouble free and last longer in general.

Fact

All machines succumb to time.

Fact

Any machine that has been around for decades, unless every part has been replaced, has a compilation of older parts that are closer to failure from atmospheric exposure. Be that hardened insulation for electronics or seals and hoses, to metals that corrode.

Therefore, it is less likely that a more modern machine would leave you stranded than an older one.

Myth

You can't work on new machines.

In my career of writing repair manuals I've yet to come across a machine where 99% of maintenance is any more difficult or beyond the reach of the DIYer because a machine is more modern.

Myth

You can't fix new machines.

In most things that could leave you stranded on the side of the road you're just as likely to fix a modern machine as you are an antique.

The myths stem from lack of comfort with the tech.

Sure, there's a point you need a scan tool, but back to the facts, the solid state components last longer and are less likely to leave you on the side of the road anyway.

I suspect some, maybe the OP included, are reluctant because they lived through a period of growing pains where the solid state components weren't as reliable as points and condensers, but that time passed a decade or two ago.

Ride an old bike because you LIKE IT, but don't pretend it's less likely to require attention or generally any harder to fix, just because you don't understand it.

[oldbike54]

 Here is my other best advice regarding a suitable bike . The '00 and '01 series Jackal . They are a bit heavy , even though with some work probably a fair bit of weight could be removed . These things are about as bullet proof slightly more modern MC as anyone ever built . Mine has 120K miles on the original computer , ignition , and fuel injection system . They handle well , have decent brakes , and no fake plastic chrome gee gaws . $ 3,000.00 will buy a sweet one with low mileage . OK , so the ergos are strange to some , not hard to fix . Solid lifters , easy to maintain , cheap to run .  What say you Rodekyll ?

  Dusty

[HardAspie]

Ok. I was going to be polite and allow the anti logic statement slide.

Obvious is that you two blokes have no clear idea of logic. Logic is a form. Data is placed into that form.
You are questioning not my form...but my  data. You question not my logic, but my experience.
You have not had my life experiences.
You do not have my personal data.

I am asking for information here. I did not ask to be scolded. I did not ask for fallacious arguments. I did not ask for your personal rants. There have been, on this thread, many varying viewpoints. I shall consider them all. That is why I asked the initial question. But your personal love for automotive computational systems does not constitute logic; it is personal belief.

I had no idea I would encounter such emotional attachment to automotive electronics.

[HardAspie]

Oldbike! Thank you! I am going to research the Jackel.

[Kev m]

I don't question your personal experience.

I question if your personal experience is representative of the industry as a whole or the statistics I've been exposed to in more than two decades on the data side of the repair industry.

I question whether or not you are willing to look past your personal experience.

I don't fault you for not wanting to.

But I ask you to then at least recognize your prejudices or at least preferences as such.

And if you're not willing to look at statistics, at least don't call it logic.

[Kev m]

Oldbike! Thank you! I am going to research the Jackel.

This is funny to me.

Because my personal experience suggests that my Jackal was one of the most unreliable bikes I've ever owned. Left me stranded twice, though I got it home one of those times (and ironically both times had nothing to do with the EFI).

My personal experience would suggest it's a horrible choice.

But a number of people have reported the opposite, which makes me wonder if the bike in question was victim to something else (bad atmospheric exposure before I got it, an unfortunate combination of cheap sourced parts, a Friday afternoon assembly, or gremlins?).

But I'm willing to consider my experience was not representative based on the additional data.

[oldbike54]

Oldbike! Thank you! I am going to research the Jackel.

 I did forget to mention that replacing a clutch in a  big block Cali ain't much fun . 

  Dusty

[Kev m]

Maybe it just didn't like you Kev . OK my emos aren't working again , picture a smiley .

  Dusty

Lol, it's entirely possible. I gave it shelter and maintenance, but not mercy... I rode it in rain, I rode it in snow, I thrashed it sometimes... But only some of the faults could be logically traced to those conditions.

So maybe it just didn't like me.


PS, you got my voice mail the other day, right? And Seamus'?

[kevdog3019]

I agree with Kevm that todays modern bikes are pretty darn reliable.  You need something very reliable if  it's your only source of transportation.  So... best suggestion is to find something that you feel comfortable riding and working on (according to your knowledge and comfort level) and with the extras you want or feel you need.  Research those that fit those needs and make your choice.  Older bikes do have their nigglies that need addressing of course, so they come with a price.  Most are not major with a Guzzi but you roll the dice nevertheless.
Best of luck!   

[Kev m]

No voice mail , try again please .

  Dusty

Bummer.. Tried calling you back the other day. Said you keep calling when I'm on the bike.

Shay saw the phone and wanted to say hi.

Which he did, like a 1 y/o....Said "Hiiiiiiiiii".

It was cute, bummer there's no voicemail.

[wymple]

"Therefore, it is less likely that a more modern machine would leave you stranded than an older one."

There is a huge variable in there called quality, in both design and build. All are not created equal, never have been, never will be. Bean counters see to that.