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Well, I am officially rollerized, Not a bad job thanks to Pete's well done instructions. Was shocked to see early signs of dlc failure on all 4 tappets. At only 6000 miles I didn't expect to find any , but just like Wayne, it was worse on one intake tappet. I am glad I decided to bite the bullet and do the swap. I can only wonder if a dealer would have considered this a failure and supplied the kit at this early stage and low mileage. I also found slight leakage on the valves with a dish soap and compressed air test so I removed all the valves and re lapped them, no more bubbles. Tomorrow I will check tb balance and reset tps and self learners and give it a go. I already fired it up and it is definitely way quieter. I set the valve gaps to .o15 and .o20mm I wasn't sure what they should be with the roller set up. If anyone has the factory 03 map they could share I would like to try it at least temporarily. Will post some pics soon. Dave
If anyone has the factory 03 map they could share I would like to try it at least temporarily.
the main thing that I changed was taking OUT some fuel from TP24 upwards. That's the opposite of what I expected, but the first run with the logger on clearly showed that it was running slightly richer (3 to 4%) with the rollers than with the flat tappets at higher throttle positions. I suppose that means the roller profile doesn't quite allow the same airflow?
Really, no hyperbole Mark, you can take mine out when you're down here and see for yourself.Strangely enough too rich is what I thought it felt like as it doesn't break down and pop and fart, it just goes dead flat and gives you nothing. Only at wider throttle openings and above about 6,000. At lower RPM it actually feels a bit lean. Logging it will tell us.Pete
Assuming equivalent torque, this suggests the roller cams provide better VE than the flat cams. Interesting.
Hi Mark. I'm not so sure about the equivalent torque though. I'd love to see torque/power curve comparison of roller vs. flat tappet models on the original map. I have the feeling the roller version might have slightly less power at the top end. I understood the profile should simulate exactly the Flat Tappet lift and duration, but maybe there is a slight difference. Or maybe it's the added weight of the valve-train components?I now have my map set up with exactly the same air/fuel ratios that I had with the flat tappets. It runs very well and very smooth, but if anything it has just slightly less "bite" at the top. It's not obvious, and I'm talking here about speeds in excess of 170kmh and approaching 200kmh, but it does feels slightly tamer at those speeds.So maybe the VE is less efficient at higher rpms and that's why it requires slightly less fuel? Just speculating. As I say, it would be great to see some curve comparisons.John
That makes perfect sense but I'd have to say that if there is a noticeable 'Flattening' of top end delivery something is still wrong. Even if it produces less outright performance there shouldn't be some sort of arbitrary 'Transition Point' that is detectable by feel.There again it could be that the roller system is actually limited as you say by its extra mass and the useable profile of the cams. I really don't know.Pete
I wouldn't say there is a certain transition point or that it's very noticeable, it's just got very slightly less bite at the more extreme rpm/throttle positions. I think I have the fuelling right, but still, maybe something is possible with fuel phasing? I don't know yet. I think though that the rollers might have very slightly more power in the mid range and slightly less at the top. Just my feeling. It'll be interesting to see what all the others say, post conversion! John
Kit A-$999.39 Part # 1A002060Kit B-$1050.78 Part # 1A002063Kit C-$1456.00 Part # 1A002082As I have previously explained though you can make a 'C' kit appreciably cheaper by buying a 'B' kit and the shims, valve stem oil seals, inlet and exhaust gaskets and measuring the head gaskets that come off and simply buying a pair of similar thickness. The 'C' kit contains all three thicknesses of head gasket as well as those extra parts, hence its higher price. If you're doing it on your own dime why buy two pairs of gaskets you don't need? They aren't cheap!Oh, those prices are from the AF-1 website but I'd imagine that MPH, MI or any of the other reputable suppliers and 'Good' shops will have very similar prices.PetePS. Time depends on what needs to be done.
In searching for a good place to purchase, I found that Teo Lamers has them for a very reasonable price. Substantial savings for the B kit. Fortunately, the one I need.
I live 12 miles from the US Moto Guzzi warehouse.The ones from Teo Lamers on the other side of the planet would get to me faster then the ones in stock in the US I suspect.
