VW, now THAT is a major problem.

[rocker59]

The EPA could always issue a waiver for the existing owners and use that as a justification to soak some more billions in fines that could be ongoing ala carbon credits.

In other words, the US could refuse the import of any VW vehicles getting less than a certain EPA rating to offset the models currently in possession while at the same time extracting some payments until all the emission overages are offset.

That would be both punishment and a revenue collection. VW would have to weigh the cost/benefit to accepting that or just take back all the vehicles and offer new as compensation.

Another route would be to require the Germans to accept a higher ratio of our car exports to their country, something the US auto makers would cry with joy for.

Creative skinning of the cat will no doubt be part if all this.

Yep.  make 'em buy "carbon credits" for the existing cars that don't meet spec.

[dibble]

Another route would be to require the Germans to accept a higher ratio of our car exports to their country, something the US auto makers would cry with joy for.

Of course you would actually have to pursuade us to buy them............... ..


Do the Germans restrict the number of cars imported anyway, his would seem a very difficult thing to do in a single EU country.

[canuguzzi]

Of course you would actually have to pursuade us to buy them............... ..


Do the Germans restrict the number of cars imported anyway, his would seem a very difficult thing to do in a single EU country.

That's another story, isn't there an equivalent cash for clunkers?

Never underestimate the creativity of governments to straighten the shaft and then see how far it will go. If you're lucky, the wallet stops it.

[jas67]

Yep.  make 'em buy "carbon credits" for the existing cars that don't meet spec.

And leave my car alone -- it runs great and gets good fuel economy the way it is.

[ITSec]

As I mentioned in a (far) earlier post in this thread, software code review is going to have to be part of the regulatory process for all relevant vehicles from here on.

Fortunately, my view is shared by some people of substantially more influence than mine... Bruce Schneier, for example: http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/28/opinions/schneier-vw-cheating-software/index.html

(edit for a typo)

[rodekyll]

The problem with carbon credits is that they don't scrub any carbon out of the air.  They just make money flow over a dying planet.  Stupidest f***ing brain fart ever invented.

[Gian4]

Dying planet????  Give me a brake.   
Gian4

[LowRyter]

it looks like they might have to make hardware changes, perhaps even the Urea.

http://news.yahoo.com/illegal-volkswagen-diesel-emission-systems-may-require-two-223240284--finance.html


 Beginning in 2012, Volkswagen offered the same 2.0 TDI engines with a more sophisticated and expensive emissions control system called Selective Catalytic Reduction. These systems, which debuted on VW's largest car, the Passat, injected a liquid urea solution into the exhaust to break down the nitrogen oxides.

    These systems also had software that turned them off during normal driving, the company has admitted. The consequences of running the systems all the time will be different for consumers than the older, NOx traps.

    Ideally, the urea solution used to control smog-forming gases is supposed to be replaced every 10,000 miles, typically by a dealer, but VW encountered potential problems.

    On newer models with the SCR system, Trahan said there were concerns within the company about the urea consumption being so great that it would require separate "fill-ups" every 5,000 miles, rather than the desired 10,000-mile intervals that are typical between engine oil changes.

    A software update on the newer diesel models equipped with SCR devices could lead to "reduced vehicle performance and fuel economy and increased urea use," said analyst Kevin Riddell of LMC Automotive. The new software "also will have an impact on resale value and potential marketability,"

[canuguzzi]

The problem with carbon credits is that they don't scrub any carbon out of the air.  They just make money flow over a dying planet.  Stupidest f***ing brain fart ever invented.

Of course it's stupid why else do you think governments endorse and use them?

But the planet was dying as soon and it was created. Human beings are just one species in a never ending line of species to inhabit the earth. We won't be the last, many will come afterwards. Nothing can be destroyed, only changed into something else.

Humans can't and won't kill the planet, the planet will eventually kill off humans.

The idea that some tipping point, artificially created that if not crossed would mean humans would inhabit the earth until the sun goes Nova is preposterous. One way or another, humans are temporary inhabitants.

[rodekyll]

It's a LOT easier to mock the science of climate change when you know your sorry ass will be dead in a few years, isn't it?

[AJ Huff]

I don't think the urea systems will fit in the Jetta and Beatle.

-AJ

[LowRyter]

I suppose a filter change every couple of thousand miles would suffice. 

I am not sure what they mean about the hardware (two) solution(s).

[rocker59]

I don't think the urea systems will fit in the Jetta and Beatle.

-AJ

Why not?  Just delete the spare and there's your space for the DEF tank.   

[rocker59]

i
    Ideally, the urea solution used to control smog-forming gases is supposed to be replaced every 10,000 miles, typically by a dealer, but VW encountered potential problems.

    On newer models with the SCR system, Trahan said there were concerns within the company about the urea consumption being so great that it would require separate "fill-ups" every 5,000 miles, rather than the desired 10,000-mile intervals that are typical between engine oil changes.
 

Why is 5,000 miles between DEF fillups a problem?  Many gas stations now have DEF at the pump, with the diesel.

[LowRyter]

Hey Mike, don't ask me, ask the guy that wrote it.  Or Ask VW.

 

[Lannis]

Of course it's stupid why else do you think governments endorse and use them?

But the planet was dying as soon and it was created. Human beings are just one species in a never ending line of species to inhabit the earth. We won't be the last, many will come afterwards. Nothing can be destroyed, only changed into something else.

Humans can't and won't kill the planet, the planet will eventually kill off humans.

The idea that some tipping point, artificially created that if not crossed would mean humans would inhabit the earth until the sun goes Nova is preposterous. One way or another, humans are temporary inhabitants.

As long as we're discussing this ....   I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague and ... oh, I don't know the cure .....

Smith

[rocker59]

As long as we're discussing this ....   I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague and ... oh, I don't know the cure .....

Smith

" Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague and we are the cure. "

[Lannis]

WTF are you two guys talking about  Although in some ways Lannis' rant makes perfect sense 

  Dusty

You didn't know who John Wayne was, no way you're going to know who Agent Smith is.   

[oldbike54]

You didn't know who John Wayne was, no way you're going to know who Agent Smith is.   

 You are probably correct , just curious where that piece of wisdom came from .

  Dusty

[rocker59]

You are probably correct , just curious where that piece of wisdom came from .

  Dusty

The Matrix.  It's actually pretty deep:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0133093/?ref_=nv_sr_1

Agent Smith.  The computer virus who ironically believes Humans are a virus on earth:
http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0000745/bio

[LowRyter]

Ya'know, if you gotta explain yur joke.........   

[Lannis]

Ya'know, if you gotta explain yur joke.........   

It's not so bad if you're explaining it to the ONLY guy on the Internet who claims never to heard of Google and doesn't know how to use it.    A short break and a Google tutorial might be in order, but hey .....

Lannis

[Dogwalker]

That's another story, isn't there an equivalent cash for clunkers?

There is, and had been used several times, but it must be equal for all the cars that meet certain pollution standards, otherwise is a state aid to a certain maker, and is forbidden under the EU rules. So it's difficult to change the ratios between car makers with it.

[Nic in Western NYS]

You didn't know who John Wayne was, no way you're going to know who Agent Smith is.   

I thought Dusty WAS John Wayne?

[Kev m]

And leave my car alone -- it runs great and gets good fuel economy the way it is.

And pollutes more than it should. There shouldn't be exceptions. We're all in this together, we should all be expected to meet the same standards.

Now I realize globally that's a tougher issue to solve than it is in JUST the US.

And I realize plenty of people cheat it individually too, but that could change.

and non of those facts excuses the 500,000 on the road in the US now.

[Kev m]

Humans can't and won't kill the planet, the planet will eventually kill off humans.

Semantics. Rendering the planet effectively "DEAD" for us is the point.

[Kev m]

Oh Google is familiar , just couldn't for the life of me figure out why Lannis was sounding like George Carlin 

  Dusty

You mean he was being funny for a change.     

[Lannis]

You mean he was being funny for a change.     

Oh, listen who's talking, Mr. DarkSide Lecturer And Corrector Of All Who Don't Bow To The Gospel According To Kev m ...... a little humor might lighten you up a bit too .....   

[Kev m]

Oh, listen who's talking, Mr. DarkSide Lecturer And Corrector Of All Who Don't Bow To The Gospel According To Kev m ...... a little humor might lighten you up a bit too .....   

I'm F'n hilarious. When I'm not dealing with curmudgeons.   

[sib]

.....We're all in this together.....

Commie pinko one-worlder sentiment.  The cure:  you need to get off the grid, get into camos, and ride your Harley more.