tazer flashlight

[Orange Guzzi]

My neighbor "had" a dog that would attack anyone that came to my home.  She claimed the dog was well trained, good and would not bite.  The dog attacked dogs that my family own and brought to my home, myself and others several times.  They installed a fence, but the dog would run to the fence and bark continuously and learned to climb over. 

One after noon, I had enough of the dog barking and its attack attitude.  I tried complaining, hornet spray, water, screaming, snacks, ignoring and finally a quick trip to the fireworks store.  I was in my garage when the dog was standing at the fence barking continuously.  I reached in the bag and grabbed a bottle rocket.  Laid it on the floor, lit it and launched it out the door.  I did not or could not have got off a better shot.  I went out the door, landed at the dog's feet, smoked a second, the dog stuck its nose on it and it exploded.  The dog ran back to the garage for a few seconds, peaked around the corner and set down.  It took  2 more firecrackers dropped in the driveway and the dog would run with just a flick of the Bic lighter.  After that, if the dog was outside, I could flick the bic and it would run up the hill, into the garage for a second, come out and sit down. 

This past July 4, Rick my friend and I bought some fireworks.  No dogs around, lets go.  We were not the only one lighting fire works and I had commented to Rick that there were more fireworks in the neighborhood this year than ever before.  A short time later, the neighbor comes out and ask if we have seen Shadow, the dog.  We told him the dog had not been out or around in the last 15 minutes since we started our fireworks show.  The neighbor lady was in panic mode because her precious little Shadow was missing.  Being a nice guy, I rode thru the area looking for Shadow.   Three days later, the report from the neighbor was Shadow was served up as lunch for the Turkey Buzzards after being hit by a vehicle.  The neighborhood has been much more peaceful since this past July. 

I would say fire crackers or bottle rockets launched ahead of your intended path of travel will clear out all threats.

[George_S]

It should be mentioned that here in the U.S. there's also a LOT of variation in laws and also how those laws are interpreted from state to state and even county to county within a state.

In New jersey, shoot someone and that will get you put in front of a grand jury to see if you should be charged with a crime.
In another state, they may throw you a parade for the exact same shooting. Not joking.

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

ive seen a really smart lady who walks/jogs up on one of my favorite riding roads in the mountains. She is always alone, sometimes at dusk and the area is lousy with blackbears, dogs, and who knows what else.

She carries an old pitching wedge or a 5 iron on her runs

the shaft is wrapped with 3m reflective type tape strips

with one simple tool from a pawn shop or thrift store...  she has 1. visibility 2. an improvised walking stick if she encounters a stiff grade or twists an ankle 3. a pretty effective dog/bear/rapist wacker if it comes to that

[Tom]

Use of deadly force laws only apply to such force used against a PERSON. Doubtful that any prosecutor would "run you through the wringer" for killing an aggressive dog. Little to be gained by him to do that.

Go ahead discharge a firearm in a residential area.  See what happens or for that matter.  Discharge one in an urban area.  My point being use of a firearm can lead you into a lot of trouble if discharged in the wrong area even if the reason maybe correct.  Don't keep your fingers crossed when a young prosecutor is looking at filing charges.

[luthier]

A Pit Bull once attacked my son's Dalmation when I was watching. It came from the next door neighbour's and walked up the front steps and grabbed the Dally round the throat.
Supposedly once they have a grip like that it is impossible to get them off.
I grabbed the damn thing round the neck and put strong pressure on it's windpipe. Not being able to breathe had quite a good effect as it soon loosened it's grip and became quite floppy. I carried the thing round to the neighbour's yard while still hanging on to the wind way and before it was quite dead I flung it over the fence. It never came back.
Later I wished I had finished it off but I wasn't sure if that would cause too much trouble.
I can strongly recommend throttling as an ideal reaction to these dogs which should never have been bred in the first place.
Though I'm not sure how I'd go with a bigger dog like a Shepherd or a Doberman. Best defense there would be to carry a lump of meat to throw them.

[George_S]

Go ahead discharge a firearm in a residential area.  See what happens or for that matter.  Discharge one in an urban area.  My point being use of a firearm can lead you into a lot of trouble if discharged in the wrong area even if the reason maybe correct.  Don't keep your fingers crossed when a young prosecutor is looking at filing charges.

If the reason is correct, end of story. But like I said, and  think we are saying the same thing, laws and the interpretation and implementation of those laws do vary depending on location. I was in law enforcement for 40 years. I can give many examples of the wide latitude police and prosecutors have.

Same state, same laws, but different counties in NJ- In one county (a very busy, urban one) a police officer was stabbed in the hand. Charge was assault. Case was downgraded to municipal court and the assailant received a $75 fine. In another very rural county, a person gave the middle finger out his car window as he passed a police officer. He was also charged with assault. He was convicted and at sentencing the judge cited his previous criminal history and he actually served six months in the county jail. 

[oldbike54]

 So George , you are saying don't flip off the dog ??? 

  Dusty

[kirb]

Discharging a weapon can be problematic depending on the state, concealed carry laws, etc. Doing some research is needed.
Draw a fire arm in defense and plan on it being costly if things get screwy with the police and such. Michigan has billboards that say 'you just blew $10k' for DUIs. They should teach the same rule in gun classes for CCW when you draw a weapon in defense.

Tasers, in MI, are concealed carry weapons. You have to obtain a CCW to carry one. The tasers have a bunch of ID tags that spray out when discharged that are traced back to the sale. The public versions will give a 5 second (or more?) ride of the bull to allow the person to run away. Pit bulls are insanely strong...they should not have an issue with surviving a taser.
Do these work on animals? yep: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwrqwzWNgNs

Bear pepper spray (~$45) can reach long distances, should stop a pit bull, and has a bunch loaded in the can. Check local laws. Don't stand down wind.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/counter-assault-reg-8-1-oz-bear-deterrent-spray-with-holster/1595374.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch.cmd%3Fform_state%3DsearchForm%26N%3D0%26fsch%3Dtrue%26Ntk%3DAllProducts%26Ntt%3Dbear%252Bspray%26x%3D10%26y%3D6%26WTz_l%3DHeader%253BSearch-All%252BProducts&Ntt=bear+spray

Hornet spray provides a similar reaction to the eyes, can reach long distances, and should not be lethal to the animal. Not proven, but will not draw as much legal attention unless used in a defensive manner.

[George_S]

So George , you are saying don't flip off the dog ??? 

  Dusty

Not if it's a police K9!

[oldbike54]

Not if it's a police K9!

 One of our K9 officers here is a buddy , he has a retired K9 officer at home , Spike , what a great dog . Of course I am always on my best behavior around Spike 

  Dusty

[George_S]

One of our K9 officers here is a buddy , he has a retired K9 officer at home , Spike , what a great dog . Of course I am always on my best behavior around Spike 

  Dusty

I was a K9 officer too at one point in my career. I never ever had to worry about my dog when off duty, his temperament was that good. Until one day we had a contractor working on the second floor of our home and he came down the stairs holding a screw gun in his hand. Thankfully he didn't bite him but ran at him and growled and backed him into a corner and wouldn't let him move.

[oldbike54]

I was a K9 officer too at one point in my career. I never ever had to worry about my dog when off duty, his temperament was that good. Until one day we had a contractor working on the second floor of our home and he came down the stairs holding a screw gun in his hand. Thankfully he didn't bite him but ran at him and growled and backed him into a corner and wouldn't let him move.

 Oh hell , Spike and I had a very similar instance , except there were no stairs involved , rather a crawl space . He was in the backyard , I was exiting an access port carrying a small Hitachi drill . Good thing Spike knew me , still some growling occurred 

  Dusty

[Tom]

If the reason is correct, end of story. But like I said, and  think we are saying the same thing, laws and the interpretation and implementation of those laws do vary depending on location. I was in law enforcement for 40 years. I can give many examples of the wide latitude police and prosecutors have.

Same state, same laws, but different counties in NJ- In one county (a very busy, urban one) a police officer was stabbed in the hand. Charge was assault. Case was downgraded to municipal court and the assailant received a $75 fine. In another very rural county, a person gave the middle finger out his car window as he passed a police officer. He was also charged with assault. He was convicted and at sentencing the judge cited his previous criminal history and he actually served six months in the county jail.

The one variable that you didn't throw in is that you were or still are a cop.  You could get away with carrying and discharging a firearm than the rest of us shmoes.

[George_S]

The one variable that you didn't throw in is that you were or still are a cop.  You could get away with carrying and discharging a firearm than the rest of us shmoes.

My comments had nothing to do with my experiences or what I could or could not 'get away with'.
And given today's climate, I don't think I could get away with more than anyone else. And that's how it should be.

[kirb]

My comments had nothing to do with my experiences or what I could or could not 'get away with'.
And given today's climate, I don't think I could get away with more than anyone else. And that's how it should be.

Ahh...if only that were true. It ~should~ be that way, but it isn't. I don't have a 'get out of jail free card' like all police I am friends with. They usually drive any place we are going...fast.

More serious 'altercations' are getting harder to hide from the public, but let's not blanket statement that one just yet.

[Tom]

My comments had nothing to do with my experiences or what I could or could not 'get away with'.
And given today's climate, I don't think I could get away with more than anyone else. And that's how it should be.

While I tend to agree with you on more scrutiny on LEO's.  There is in reality "professional courtesy" given to LEO's.  They do it out here.  No complaint on my end just an observation.  To bring it back to the OP's post.  If I was to use a firearm vs you using one in your area under the same conditions.  I would be under closer scrutiny than you because of the LEO ties.  Just a fact.  You're a trained LEO vs a trained CCW.  LEO vs. civilian.  Different scenario.

[George_S]

While I tend to agree with you on more scrutiny on LEO's.  There is in reality "professional courtesy" given to LEO's.  They do it out here.  No complaint on my end just an observation.  To bring it back to the OP's post.  If I was to use a firearm vs you using one in your area under the same conditions.  I would be under closer scrutiny than you because of the LEO ties.  Just a fact.  You're a trained LEO vs a trained CCW.  LEO vs. civilian.  Different scenario.

With regard to you or I using a firearm, at least here in NJ, BOTH of us would be thoroughly investigated and scrutinized. There's no free passes for shooting someone. Like I said, that's here in NJ.  Obviously, other parts of the country may differ.

[Tom]

Investigated yes.  A discount given LEO vs. civilian.  We already know the answer to that.  Nothing wrong with that.