Author Topic: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild  (Read 39093 times)

Online Rick4003

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Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild
« on: January 13, 2016, 10:28:48 AM »
Hi Guys, and girls if we have any  :grin:

I have been in the progress of ruining a perfectly almost running T5 and build it into my dream bike, it won't be anything remotely like a T5 as the only parts that are carried over is the engine, gearbox, frame and rear swing arm. All other parts comes from other Guzzis or made for the bike.

I originally bought a caf�d T5 as it looked absolutely amazing. I knew when I bought it that it would be nearly impossible getting registered and road legal as it stood.


This is the bike as I bought it. Chopped frame, removed lower frame rails, converted to mono shock, USD fork, 17" wheels, too modified to have a chance to get it MOT'ed in Denmark.

The plan was to find a new unmolested frame and transfer all the good parts to that and get some good twin shocks to compliment the fork. After searching for a frame a while I found one from a 1978 T3 with German papers. The guy selling it wanted 700$ for the bare frame. Bearing in mind that with the German frame I still had to get the finished bike thru the Danish MOT system and get a value estimate which they use for determining how much you have to pay in "Registreingsafgift" (Registration tax) to legally use it on Danish roads I decided that the 700$ was way more than what I wanted to pay. (The estimates vary wildly and would be expected to be around 1000$ or more.)

So no luck finding a frame at first :undecided:
Sometime later I found a cheap 850T5 that looked pretty unloved but was registered in Denmark. So I made an even cheaper offer and the seller agreed to the deal.


This is the bike I picked up in dire need for some TLC.
While the bike looks okay on the pictures it was running very rough and needed to have new tires and a bunch of other work to get it thru the MOT. First plan was to change the front tire and get the bike running well enough to get the MOT. But after several tries to get it running smoothly I ran out of time and out of patience. The wiring loom was completely botched by the previous owner and would need some serious work to get sorted out. (Every time I fixed something on it something else broke or stopped working�)
I ditched the idea of getting the bike road worthy in the state it was in and put it away as I had run out of time.
I work in the cement business and am working aboard so I can only work on the bike in my spare time. Off to work I was�  :sad:

Fast forward to next vacation:
Started taking both bikes apart.

Stripped both bikes to bare frames and removed some of the unneeded brackets from the green bikes frame, added some new brackets for mounting points for seat and electric box.
Frame just after being picked up from the sandblaster:

End of vacation�
A small mistake I made was that I didn't know that Guzzi changed the Tonti frame to the tall headstock in between 1984 and 1985.

So I have one of each... Which means that the USD fork could not be used as it was not possible to modify it to fit on the frame with the tall headstock.

I found the solution in a guy who sold a brand new 45mm Marzocchi fork for the tall head stock. I don't actually know which exact model it comes from. I'm guessing a Cali aluminium or a Cali Sport.
Of course the spacers and wheel axle didn't fit from the old USD fork, so I had to turn new spacers and modify an old Guzzi rear axle to get everything to fit together.

Front wheel finally on the fork.
On to the build finally:
I haven't been very good at taking pictures of the progress with putting the bike together again but here are rest of the pictures up to the point where I am now.
 

Showing the three new brackets to mount seat and electronic box.


New timing cover gets sodablasted to match the rest of the engine.


First trial fit of tank and seat.




Motogadget M-unit v.2 and finished electrics box.


Vroom Vroom  :bike-037:

End of Christmas holidays. back to work.

This is as far as I got this time. I still have a lot of work on the wiring and I need to get a new regulator/rectifier plus paint and all the finishing touches. Front and rear fenders and so on. I haven't really decided if I want to use the seat or not yet.


I have a ton of questions I will need some of you good folks to give your opinion on and are looking forward to get the bike on the road.
English is not my mother tongue so forgive me if there is some grammatical errors or misspellings, I try my best  :laugh:

I welcome all the suggestions, opinions and ideas you might have that would improve my project. Even if you don't like it  :grin:

Let the lynching begin!  :grin:  :whip2:
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 04:23:28 AM by Rick4003 »
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

Offline cruzziguzzi

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2016, 11:31:19 AM »
I sure do like your returning some of the period look to it. Getting rid of the awful downward streaking exhaust, the USD forks and getting back to dual shocks are great aesthetic improvements even if the previous might have had some advantages.

What did you end up doing with that wonderful fairing from the 850 donor? Looks like a nice set-up.


Todd.
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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2016, 11:36:35 AM »
No lynching here. Looks great!

Maybe I'm just a partner in crime though. I blew up my LM III last spring (lost oil while riding, found out later i'd also developed a bad oil pressure sender, no idiot light, freeway in heavy traffic, disaster, honestly just glad to be alive), it's currently getting a new mill, cosmetic makeover and won't be an LM III any more. I'm saving the original motor for a rebuild in the future and not cutting the frame, but it's still heresy to most I'd imagine. Oh well....

Keep up the updates.



 
« Last Edit: January 13, 2016, 11:38:35 AM by SteveAZ »

Offline Don G

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2016, 12:25:44 PM »
It is very nice to see that you are making something better, keep up the good work. There is nothing wrong with your grammar and spelling, infact it is better than a lot of native english speaking people! DonG

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2016, 12:25:44 PM »

Offline rboe

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2016, 12:40:49 PM »
Me thinks you still have a worthy project bike with the original bike frame you started with. Just not sure what, but you can sort that out when this project is finished.   :grin:
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Offline mrrick

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2016, 02:19:31 PM »
Your English is fine, no need to apologize for that, and I admire your ambition.
My only suggestion is about the seat, which (to my eye) seems to come up too far on the tank and spoils the "lines" of the design.
It's a cool project, and already looking good!

Offline Petrus Rocks

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2016, 04:11:50 PM »
I'm looking forward to seeing more!  What was involved with adding the new front end? 
I have an '85 call II and I want to upgrade the front end.  How hard was it to source the front end?

Online Rick4003

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2016, 07:25:03 PM »
Gift = tax?  Interesting.

Actually it is "afgift" that means tax, or it is just a other word for tax.

"Gift" means married and it also means poison, read what you like from that  :laugh:

The proper danish word for tax is "Skat" which is also a common thing to call your wife/girlfriend/boyfriend as it also means tresure.

The danish language is a funny one, lots of words have more than one meaning and often they are complete contradictions.

Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

Offline JoeW

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2016, 08:36:05 PM »
Your bike looks great, I like the retro look as well. I think I would have kept the front end from the original custom though.
I did a similar build on an 850T a few years ago.
http://s1146.photobucket.com/user/jwalano/slideshow/950S
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Offline oldbike54

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2016, 08:43:19 PM »
Actually it is "afgift" that means tax, or it is just a other word for tax.

"Gift" means married and it also means poison, read what you like from that  :laugh:

The proper danish word for tax is "Skat" which is also a common thing to call your wife/girlfriend/boyfriend as it also means tresure.

The danish language is a funny one, lots of words have more than one meaning and often they are complete contradictions.

 Danes also don't say Copenhagen , comes out like Koovenhagen .

  Dusty
It's been rainin' all day Max , and it don't look like it's a gonna stop .

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2016, 09:06:48 PM »
Looks good, I really like the clean electrical box and wiring.

Online Rick4003

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2016, 10:55:16 PM »
Your bike looks great, I like the retro look as well. I think I would have kept the front end from the original custom though.
I did a similar build on an 850T a few years ago.
http://s1146.photobucket.com/user/jwalano/slideshow/950S

I kind of wanted to keep the USD front end, but as the "new" stock frame I bought had the tall headstock, so I couldn't use the original front end. I tried to go thru all the possible solutions for getting it to work. But in the end, it was not worth it. So I bought the Mazocchi fork instead.

The difference between the old short headstock and the newer tall headstock is 50mm. 170mm for the old type and 220mm for the newer type. If I lowered the bottom triple tree by 50mm the bike would be standing completely on its nose and the outer fork legs starts to taper just below the lower triple tree. So it would never be a neat solution.

 
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

Offline JoeW

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2016, 10:58:16 PM »
I kind of wanted to keep the USD front end, but as the "new" stock frame I bought had the tall headstock, so I couldn't use the original front end. I tried to go thru all the possible solutions for getting it to work. But in the end, it was not worth it. So I bought the Mazocchi fork instead.

The difference between the old short headstock and the newer tall headstock is 50mm. 170mm for the old type and 220mm for the newer type. If I lowered the bottom triple tree by 50mm the bike would be standing completely on its nose and the outer fork legs starts to taper just below the lower triple tree. So it would never be a neat solution.

I understand, some times the juice isn't worth the squeeze!
Joe Walano

Online Rick4003

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2016, 11:16:08 PM »
I sure do like your returning some of the period look to it. Getting rid of the awful downward streaking exhaust, the USD forks and getting back to dual shocks are great aesthetic improvements even if the previous might have had some advantages.

What did you end up doing with that wonderful fairing from the 850 donor? Looks like a nice set-up.


Todd.

Thanks Todd, appreciate the feedback. The old exhaust did indeed look awful, but it sounded amazing! :grin:

The new dual shocks is a set of piggy back Wilbers shocks set up to my riding weight and will look and ride fantastic! (I hope)  :laugh:

The fairing has been sold.

- Ulrik
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

Online Rick4003

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2016, 11:21:33 PM »
Me thinks you still have a worthy project bike with the original bike frame you started with. Just not sure what, but you can sort that out when this project is finished.   :grin:

I do have another T5 frame with Italian papers so I do plan to build a bike of that when I get the time for it :grin:
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

Online Rick4003

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2016, 11:31:07 PM »
I'm looking forward to seeing more!  What was involved with adding the new front end? 
I have an '85 call II and I want to upgrade the front end.  How hard was it to source the front end?

The new front was very easy to fit. It is made for Guzzi originally, so it was plug and play. Fit new headstock bearings and mount it.

I was lucky that there was one for sale when I needed it. So I don't know how difficult to source one elsewhere.
If you can find a fork that has the right diameter and height for the headstock bearings then it won't be so difficult. But you might need to make a custom "bearing shaft?" I can't remember the proper english term for it.

Remember to check if you have the 170mm or the 220mm headstock.

Ulrik
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

Online Rick4003

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2016, 11:34:11 PM »
Danes also don't say Copenhagen , comes out like Koovenhagen .

  Dusty

KÝbenhavn  :wink:

Looks good, I really like the clean electrical box and wiring.

Thanks! that's something coming from you!  :laugh: Loved your V7 and 750S threads! Fantastic details!

Ulrik
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

Offline krglorioso

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2016, 12:40:33 AM »
Rick:  I was a little hesitant at first, but seeing the quality of your work has convinced me you are on the right track.  Beautiful work.  Lynching postponed, maybe forever!

Ralph
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Offline jacksonracingcomau

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2016, 02:48:15 AM »
Another approval
Not just because it looks neat (aesthetics are by definition subjective)

But because motorbikes are a blank canvas when they leave the factory, ready to be modified to suit the owner's needs and wants

I'd lynch the factory original is only right train spotters instead, but that'd still be wrong, they may turn out to be nice people (who should have bought a Honda)

My bike still developing, one owner 38 years,  I just fitted my perfect tankbag, been through many, I made this one to last forever.
Tested in belting rain & wind today, works as planned, shop bought ones good enough for everyone else maybe, not this black duck,

Keep on fiddlin, you find out where you went wrong when you do it twice. Only a fool does it the same 3 times

Offline charlie b

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2016, 07:26:32 AM »
FWIW, I don't think anyone can "ruin" a T5.  But, I may be biased since I turned mine into a touring rat.  I wish I was in Europe and I'd take that USD fork off your hands :)
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Offline David 54

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2016, 08:28:04 AM »
Your bike looks great, I like the retro look as well. I think I would have kept the front end from the original custom though.
I did a similar build on an 850T a few years ago.
http://s1146.photobucket.com/user/jwalano/slideshow/950S
[/quote
Are they Ducati Conti exhausts, if so how does the Guzzi run with them?
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Online Rick4003

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2016, 08:21:35 PM »
Thanks for all the approvals appreciate it!  :laugh:

I don't have so much more to show you as I didn't take that many pictures. I do have a bit more things.


The old front end had a wheel axle diameter of 25mm so I had to change the bearings in the wheel to have a internal diameter of 20mm as the new front end. This is the spacer I made to fit between the bearings. The two larger diameter sections is to concentric center the spacer in the wheel.


I delinked the brakes so I had to find a new position for the rear master brake cylinder. I have looked at a bunch of pictures of custom Guzzis to try to figure out the best position. This is the position I choose, hopefully it will work out just fine. One problem is that it is not possible to weld the brake lever at a right angle to the brake cylinder as the swingarm pivot nut is in the way.


On the original custom (can you even say that?) the rear wheel spacer was not really working really well so I had to make a new one. I made a nice new one only to find out that there had been an extra spacer washer in between on the old one. So my nice new spacer was 5mm too short.. Bugger, had to make another one with the correct height. Don't have any pictures of it unfortunately.

Ulrik
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

Offline brightonguzzi

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2016, 10:08:34 AM »
Hey Rick

Lovely job you've done there!

What are your plans for the USD forks from the original bike?

I'd be interested if they are for sale and would fit a LM1 frame.

Based in the UK.

Cheers
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Offline Daleroso

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2016, 01:28:00 PM »
I'm a self taught tinkerer with minimal tools & confidence. I really appreciate someone with your ability. Thanks for including us!

Offline jbell

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2016, 07:36:04 PM »
Everything looking good. My only question is, "How can anyone have that much room in the shop?"   :laugh:
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Offline cruzziguzzi

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2016, 07:41:07 PM »
Everything looking good. My only question is, "How can anyone have that much room in the shop?"   :laugh:

Hell - think of the money he saves on bike work stands. :boozing:

Todd.
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07 Calvin            77 TT500
95 Sport 1100      04 Breva 750
82 Katana           79 GS850G
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Offline JoeW

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2016, 08:07:49 PM »
"How can anyone have that much room in the shop?"   :laugh:
You have to be organized...

This was yesterday, I cleaned up today. Too tired to take a picture though.
Joe Walano

canuck750

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2016, 10:01:18 PM »
You have to be organized...

This was yesterday, I cleaned up today. Too tired to take a picture though.

 :bow: :bow: :bow:

Offline Cal3Me

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2016, 12:49:16 AM »
how about mounting that rear master cylinder backwards? on a bracket ?? Keep up the good work  :thumb:

Joe W. shop doesn't really look like that ,,,,,,,,,,  :boozing:
TMS

Online Rick4003

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2016, 08:30:56 AM »
Hey Rick

Lovely job you've done there!

What are your plans for the USD forks from the original bike?

I'd be interested if they are for sale and would fit a LM1 frame.

Based in the UK.

Cheers

Thanks!

I don't really have any plans for the USD fork, so they might be for sale if you make a good offer  :wink:

The fork should fit the LM1 frame, any tonti frame up to around 1985 I believe.

Hell - think of the money he saves on bike work stands. :boozing:

Todd.

HEY! That's a genuine american walnut bike stand!  :wink:

Reason for the size of the shop is because it is my dads furniture workshop. He makes dinner tables.   http://www.dk3.dk/
I just borrowed a small area of it during the holidays.

Same reason the bike stand is pallets and an old door :grin: haven't found a place I could put a bike lift when it is not in use. A lift is high up my wish list though!

how about mounting that rear master cylinder backwards? on a bracket ?? Keep up the good work  :thumb:

I was thinking about that, but the exhaust bracket/rear footrest bracket was in the way. I did have to make new exhaust brackets as the lafranconi exhausts wouldn't fit on the ones from the footrest kit. So it would be possible to do so. If it doesn't work in the position it has now I will move it to the rear.

-Ulrik
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

 

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