Welding . flux core or Mig ?

[arveno]

Hi All
I would like to buy a small welder for some small welds, nothing "PRO" but just to be able to welds brackets , do some small repairs etc.

I was looking around and I would like to get a Mig welder but i do not like the idea of having the shield Gas .
I then found out about the so called Flux core welder , no gas necessary .( I like it )

What is your thought ?

I am a very beginner....

http://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-90a-flux-core-welder.html

thanks
Marco

[RayB]

I don't like flux core for quality welds. Get a MIG outfit if you can find a way to afford it. Maybe find a used kit?

[Rich A]

I'm not an expert but I'd strongly suggest MIG. Flux core is useful when it is windy, but otherwise MIG is far superior.

Rich A

[twowings]

Have you tried out the fluxcore welder yet or had it demonstrated to you?

With your acknowledged skill level, MiG is really a better choice...if the gas expense is an issue, see if you can find a shop that will let you get in on their bulk order...

[Farmer Dan]

Mig will give a better, cleaner, stronger weld than flux core.  It took me a couple years but I saved up and bought a Hobart 140.  Glad I did, using it to make saddlebag mounts now and the welds look just like factory with no slag or splatter and good penetration.

[rodekyll]

Just been there on a welder purchase this spring.

The flux makes its own shield gas.  That's the only good thing to say about it.  That and flux gear is available at harbor freight.  Aside from that according to everything I read and all the welders I talk to it's a waste of time and materials.  I was easily talked out of it despite the attractive buy-in price.

You can get a hobby bottle of gas -- knee high.  If you remember to turn it off after a burn it will last a long time the way you want to use it.  Then you can do aluminum, steel . . .

I got a "Coplay" 200 refurb off of ebay for $400.  It's a Miller clone.  It will burn up to 1/4" with no problem.  Economical to use (110/220 convertible), and with a spool gun does thin aluminum pretty well.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/REFURBISHED-Coplay-Norstar-Dual-Voltage-Input-MIG-Welder-Package-M200-M-/181873723355?hash=item2a5884c7db:g:r8sAAOSwKIpV-r-~

[Triple Jim]

My strong preference is TIG, but you said you're a beginner, etc..  It would be a great idea to go to a welding equipment supplier that has welders set up for demo and get one of the guys to let you try MIG and TIG. 

TIG is by far the most versitile of all the types.  MIG's advantage is mainly speed, so it's great if you're going into production making boat trailers, for example.  It is probably also easier to learn than TIG, although if you've ever welded with oxy-acetylene, TIG is a very easy step to take.

In my experience, once you commit to shielding gas, you're way better off getting a TIG setup, and there are some very reasonably priced TIG machines coming from the far east these days.

[Wayne Orwig]

I bought a Lincoln. I set it up to use flux core. It has done well for me.
I can add a regulator and the lines to it to convert it to MIG, but never felt the need.


 

[arveno]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.
the only experience i have is with stick welding ( don't laugh lol ) that's why i thought the next step should be a Mig or fluxcore welder and make some experience.

I see that with a budget of around 300/400 bulks it's possible to buy a decent welder to begin with.

This one for example...http://www.eastwood.com/mig-welder-110vac-135a-output.html
what do you think ?

[Triple Jim]

There's nothing to laugh about with stick welding.  If it were me, I'd stay with stick until I saved enough for a TIG setup.  Stick really isn't much different from flux core wire feed when you get down to it, and you don't get more economical.

[wymple]

Unless you weld a lot, there is no super huge advantage to the gas shielded wire. I have both and the flux core works just fine even if the gas shielded is a bit better to deal with. I also welded flux core and regular for years with Caterpillar and never saw a strength of weld difference.

[rodekyll]

A 135 is very limited.  Anything larger would be more versatile even at the home level.

[pete mcgee]

Flux core, it has its uses and can produce strong welds if cleaning, preparation are done correctly.
You are VERY limited with a 110v 90 amp welder.
Much better to save your money for something 220v and 175 to 200 amp.
The quality will be better, duty cycle will be reasonable and with practice you will be able to weld from 1mm through to 8 mm.
Plus when you decide gas is a better way to go, you have a quality unit to put it on.
Have a read through this site;
http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/      , they also have a great friendly forum.
Read through that and find a welding course in your local area BEFORE you buy.
Welders are a bit like bikes, if you start cheap and small you out grow it very quickly or you try to get it to work beyond its capabilities.
That's my advice and I have oxy, stick mig and tig, I started with a small 140 stick welder and have been steadily working through bigger machines ever since.
Cheers

[Perazzimx14]

Having been exposed to lots of welding (Pipefitter) for the last 24+ years, sporadic welding experience in the field and 1 year of weld classes in my Apprenticeship I can stick two pieces of metal together but can not do so efficiently or effectively. If you are not an experienced welder, are not going to dedicate many hours of practice, have someone to show you proper technique  and will not be welding on the regular basses, take the money you think you'll spend on a weld rig setup and use that money to pay a welder when projects come up.



   

[pyoungbl]

Our community college offers welding classes so I took every one they had.  Based on that I bought a MIG machine.  Later I got TIG.  Recently I got an  inverter stick machine.  Each has its advantages but all are pretty useless unless you get some instruction on how to use them correctly.  I'd recommend at least 150 amp on any machine you get, 200 is even better.  MIG is my first choice for the tinkering I do.  In an hour I'm taking the stick machine out to repair a steel fence in a local park.  Local welders charge $50/hour so not only is it handy to have your own machine, it ends up saving a lot of money too (that's my story and my wife believes it!).

[Rough Edge racing]

  I bought a Miller 130 120 volt MIG 20 years ago...I've built several  hot rods,  and modified many motorcycles and general hillbilly repairs with the machine..It's fine for 1/8 inch steel.... A TIG has more versatility  for sure and will make the very trendy "row of dimes" weld bead ....Bottom line is money and what you will really do with the machine...

[LaMojo]

I bought a Lincoln 180c with gas regulator and the optional aluminum feed several years ago.  It has the variable volt/amp rheostat rather than the fixed step control that comes in handy when welding sheet metal.  I prefer the shielding gas as it greatly reduces splatter over the flux core wire.

The main selling point of the Lincoln is that I can get parts locally (never needed one), the higher duty cycle over the cheaper ones and the quality feed gun (important).  Being somewhat a poor welder, I needed all the help I can get.

I could have bought a mig machine for half of what I paid for the Lincoln, but prorating the additional cost over 20 years or more, its not that much. 

[Mike Tashjian]

I bought a Lincoln SP 100 over twenty years ago and fitted it with gas. Gas is so much cleaner than flux core I gave the flux core wire away. The time saved cleaning up the flux core welds alone is worth the price of the gas. I use a 70 series wire and it has proved to be very versatile.Thin sheetmetal to 1/8 in one pass.  For heavy stuff I use the stick welder.  Mike

[charlie b]

I will be buying a new welder soon as well.  Have used stick for hobby stuff for 40 years.  The only real downside to me is flux cleanup and splatter.  Flux core has the same problem.  I'd get another stick machine before I'd get a flux core.

I'll be getting a MIG outfit.  It is night and day difference between flux or stick.

For most common stuff a high duty cycle and current/voltage is not a big deal.  BUT...it limits you a lot.  The minute you have a light machine you'll end up with several projects that need the higher capacity.  Like a tow hitch for a truck :)

[Wayne Orwig]

so not only is it handy to have your own machine, it ends up saving a lot of money too (that's my story and my wife believes it!).

Same here. Ended up convincing her that a small oxy-acetylene setup would save me $$ too.

[tris]

I got a baby 105 Amper years ago that came set up for flux cored welding but could be converted to gas if so desired.

Works OK for 90% of what I need to do.

However, I realised that my non fan cooled welder had the same casing as the fan cooled version and by happy coincidence I dismembered a microwave at some point and found that the fan in it fitted the mounting holes already in the welders casing.

Voila a fan cooled welder - doesn't help the amps but does improve the duty cycle

[Rick4003]

I would chose MIG(MAG) as the first welder also.

I have a Migatronic 183 MIG and it has payed for itself many times over with car repairs and such. Also very easy to wip out and weld something quickly. I prefer to be able to do my own projects everything included and have a tendency to spend way more on tools than what would be reasonable for the project, but hey! the tools can be used for other projects right!? 

I have Stick, MIG and TIG, and like Triple Jim I prefer the TIG welder above the others, but thats mainly because most of my private work is small stuff. Bigger stuff stick have the advantage IMO.

And don't laugh about stick welding.
From this:


To This:

99,99% of what you see here is done by stick welding.

It is a limestone mill capable of crushing more than 8000ton/day of raw limestone into powder , btw

My little work project you can see the scale by the worker in the blue on the bottom picture.

-Ulrik

[Rick4003]

Oh and I forgot.

For technique and tips check out weldingtipsandtrick s on youtube, Jodi/Jody, have made a bunch of good videos to give you an idea on how to weld.
Might not be as good as a welding course, but it will get you started. I'm sure there a bunch of other guys making welding videos, but I like Jody's style of showing the actual puddle as he's moving along with the welds. Gives you a better idea of handcontrol/motions.

-Ulrik

[Chuck in Indiana]

Speaking of tips and tricks.. I can weld very well (gas) *if* I can see the puddle. I don't know if it's my eyes, helmet, or what, but I have a very difficult time seeing the puddle with TIG unless it is on very heavy metal. Whatup wit dat?

[Triple Jim]

I don't know for sure, Chuck, but you may need more lens power at your eyes.  I use 4 diopters over my "distance" lenses for welding, so I can get down to 8 or 10 inches from the work.  I used to use the little clip-on, flip-up fly tying lenses you can get from places like Cabella's, but once I homed in on the lenses I liked, I got a pair of trifocals made for the purpose, with my distance lenses at the top, my normal bifocal lenses in the middle, and another +2 for the bottom lenses.  Years ago I learned that for welding, I *have* to get my eyes down close to do good work.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Thanks for that, Jim. Close vision is no problem. I have bifocal implants in both eyes, and I'm 20/15 at 12 inches or so.

[Toecutter]

Hobby welder here, with a little Lincoln 140. Duty cycle is short, but I've never run afoul of it, by the time I get set up. things clamped, etc

Flux is great for quick and dirty jobs where looks aren't important.

Mig is much cleaner, but needs pretty still air... not an issue most of the time.

[Wayne Orwig]

Speaking of tips and tricks.. I can weld very well (gas) *if* I can see the puddle. I don't know if it's my eyes, helmet, or what, but I have a very difficult time seeing the puddle with TIG unless it is on very heavy metal. Whatup wit dat?

Speaking of which, for my next waste of money upgrade, I was thinking about getting an automatic darkening shield. Not being able to see the initial strike location is a pain.
Do those help?
 

[arveno]

wow , this thread had more interest than i thought .
I am aware i should take some class and i will , soon.

I am not planning on become a professional welder but i like to be independent , like motorcycle maintenance , i tent to do everything myself.... i would like to be able to do some welding just for fun , hobby ..etc.
If i would need to weld a frame of something that will require a professional welder... i would pay someone to do it ( i know my limit ) but i like to learn new things.

thanks for the feedback

[rodekyll]

Speaking of tips and tricks.. I can weld very well (gas) *if* I can see the puddle. I don't know if it's my eyes, helmet, or what, but I have a very difficult time seeing the puddle with TIG unless it is on very heavy metal. Whatup wit dat?

I was having problems seeing the puddle too.  I got a variable-dimming helmet (9-13, whatever that means)  I keep it down at 9 and I can see well enough when it autodarkens.  At higher values I can't see anything.