Author Topic: Crankshaft seizure problems with V7 II'S  (Read 26283 times)

Offline redhawk47

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Re: Problems With 6-Speed V7's
« Reply #60 on: March 03, 2017, 09:20:03 AM »
Bingo!  My other transportation is a 2004 Prius with 165,000+ trouble-free miles on it.  There are Priuses around with three times that mileage.  They are among the most reliable cars ever built.  But you wouldn't know that if you visit the Prius forums, where there is a litany of horror stories, complaints about reliability, comparisons with other, supposedly more reliable and better built cars, etc.  It's the nature of these forums that they attract these attitudes and participants.  There are probably millions of satisfied Prius owners who haven't even heard of a Prius forum, just as there are probably thousands of Moto Guzzi owners who happily ride their bikes, blissfully unaware that this forum even exists.
:1:
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Online Kev m

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Re: Problems With 6-Speed V7's
« Reply #61 on: March 03, 2017, 09:39:25 AM »
At least, Moto Guzzi is stepping up to the plate on this clutch/thrust washer issue. I had a new engine in my V7II in two weeks time.

It took the BMW dealer, with factory help, four months to fix the stalling problem on my F800GS. In the mean time I bought a Stelvio. I have definitely switched brand loyalty.

 :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Optimism it is.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2017, 09:51:09 AM by Kev m »
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Offline asaleo

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Re: Problems With 6-Speed V7's
« Reply #62 on: March 03, 2017, 03:49:53 PM »
Frightening threads for all V7II owners. I own a 2015 V7II with 2200 miles up till now. Hoping it will be OK
My only contribution on this matter will be a picture of mounting of thrust half rings and some dimensions.
Axial play of crankshaft should be 0.35-0,4 mm 0,0157-0,0157"





up loading photos

Mounting of thrust halves rings.
Insert the timing system side and flywheel side half-bearings with their
thrust washers into the seats in the upper crankcase

Dimensions:

Main journal diameter on timing system side   40.023   - 43.007 mm (1.5757 - 16932 in)
Flywheel side main bearing seat diameter   47.130   - 47.142 mm (1.8555 - 1.8560 in)
Total thickness for flywheel side main bearings   2.044   - 2.050 mm (0.0805 - 0.0807 in)
Clearance between shaft and flywheel side bearing   0.007   - 0047 mm (0.0003 - 0.0018 in)
Flywheel side main journal diameter   39.995   - 40.011 mm (1.5746 - 1.5752 in)

Thickness of thrust half ring on flywheel side main bearing   2.310   - 2.360 mm (0.0909 - 0.0929 in)

Side thrust clearance of crankshaft in crankcase   0.35   - 0.40 mm (0.0138 - 0.0157 in)

« Last Edit: March 04, 2017, 12:10:22 AM by asaleo »

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Problems With 6-Speed V7's
« Reply #63 on: March 03, 2017, 06:50:21 PM »
I seen one at 3K mi so you should know by now.  I don't want to mislead anyone, they have used this motor for almost 40yrs, they will sort it.  I am not a fan of the smallblock, that's all.
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Offline SportsterDoc

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Re: Problems With 6-Speed V7's
« Reply #64 on: March 03, 2017, 07:02:30 PM »
Well, I am loving the V7 II.
Gearbox is very smooth, clutch is very predictable, and handling is excellent.
781 miles on the clock, in the past 3 weeks.

Only issue is gearbox vent weep.   Cleaned it up twice (spray 409, splash a bucket of water)

Going to dealer for service on Tuesday.   Maybe it was overfilled.   Need to research the valve, for which SIB provided the part number.

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Online Kev m

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Re: Problems With 6-Speed V7's
« Reply #65 on: March 03, 2017, 07:22:45 PM »
I think you're good doc, as am I, but hey I saw one of these guys on the streets in Philly the other week, standing on a milk crate outside Reading Terminal Market with a bullhorn telling us all how we were sinners... Of course he was less than 10' from a passed out homeless man...hmmmm
« Last Edit: March 04, 2017, 06:49:10 AM by Kev m »
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Re: Problems With 6-Speed V7's
« Reply #66 on: March 03, 2017, 07:41:50 PM »
 :coffee:
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Offline sib

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Re: Problems With 6-Speed V7's
« Reply #67 on: March 04, 2017, 06:30:51 AM »
Only issue is gearbox vent weep.   Cleaned it up twice (spray 409, splash a bucket of water)

Going to dealer for service on Tuesday.   Maybe it was overfilled.e_Lake_M ead_5.jpg[/img][/url]

image hosting

If it's overfilled, it might also have the wrong oil.  If your dealer is more into "doing it the way I've always done it" instead of reading the manual, it's possible that he put in 1000 mL of 85W-90 (what the 5-sp gearbox takes) instead of 500 mL of 75W-90.  I would suggest draining out whatever is in there now and replacing it with what you know should be in there.
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Online pete roper

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Re: Problems With 6-Speed V7's
« Reply #68 on: March 04, 2017, 06:51:21 AM »
If it has a litre in there it would be spewing out in torrents! Probably just a tad over full.

Offline SportsterDoc

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Re: Problems With 6-Speed V7's
« Reply #69 on: March 04, 2017, 11:27:40 AM »
If it's overfilled, it might also have the wrong oil.  If your dealer is more into "doing it the way I've always done it" instead of reading the manual, it's possible that he put in 1000 mL of 85W-90 (what the 5-sp gearbox takes) instead of 500 mL of 75W-90.  I would suggest draining out whatever is in there now and replacing it with what you know should be in there.

Thanks, Sam, but according to the Dealer installed fluids? thread, the bike is shipped wet from the factory.
If that is not correct, then the overfill theory is likely.
It gets replaced on Tuesday and I won't get a chance to ride it again until then.

I have not found a way to measure, other than by draining.

Do you know anything about the vent function?
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Offline SportsterDoc

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Re: Problems With 6-Speed V7's
« Reply #70 on: March 04, 2017, 11:31:08 AM »
If it has a litre in there it would be spewing out in torrents! Probably just a tad over full.

Seems logical.
Over the decades, I had a couple Hondas with base gasket weep, but it was not enough to bother with disassembly...it was only an appearance issue.
In this case, the quantity is not copious, but would not want it to make its way to the rear tire going into a turn.
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Offline sib

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Re: Problems With 6-Speed V7's
« Reply #71 on: March 04, 2017, 12:25:24 PM »
Do you know anything about the vent function?
Both the gearbox and rear bevel drive have vents because their oil, and mainly the air within the boxes, expand when heated and, without a vent, the internal pressure would increase and tend to push the oil out through the seals. The vents provide an escape route for the air and relieve the pressure.  The vents are high enough above the oil level, and are possibly also baffled, so oil shouldn't be ejected out of the vents under normal conditions.  As far as I know, there are no pressure valves or check valves in the vents; topologically, they are open tubes.  I hope that answers your question.
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Offline SportsterDoc

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Re: Problems With 6-Speed V7's
« Reply #72 on: March 04, 2017, 12:52:16 PM »
Both the gearbox and rear bevel drive have vents because their oil, and mainly the air within the boxes, expand when heated and, without a vent, the internal pressure would increase and tend to push the oil out through the seals. The vents provide an escape route for the air and relieve the pressure.  The vents are high enough above the oil level, and are possibly also baffled, so oil shouldn't be ejected out of the vents under normal conditions.  As far as I know, there are no pressure valves or check valves in the vents; topologically, they are open tubes.  I hope that answers your question.

Completely, thank you
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Offline Markinlv

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Re: Problems With 6-Speed V7's
« Reply #73 on: March 04, 2017, 02:41:30 PM »
Ok, so this exactly the situation I am in right now.  My V7ii Stone had the problem occur at 1024 miles.  The dealer first told me that I had misadjusted the clutch cable, of course I had never touched the clutch cable.  Then I was told it would take a week to get a tool to measure for a misalignment of the shaft.  Then the next day they said the "Motor Guzzi" contact had said the whole engine would need to be replaced.  I'm into a week and a half without my bike which is also my daily driver so I'm not thrilled.  What really burns me is that the dealer just charged me 440 dollars for my 1k service, and now I will be repeating that about 6 weeks after I get the bike back.  What really bothers me is that the service department used the wrong oil during the change compared to what the service manual calls for, and then the service manager doesnt even know the correct name of the brand.  And it's 74 degrees out today and I'm staring at my helmet longingly dreaming of riding the twisties.  Thanks for listening to my mini-rant.

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Re: Problems With 6-Speed V7's
« Reply #74 on: March 04, 2017, 03:14:30 PM »
What really burns me is that the dealer just charged me 440 dollars for my 1k service, and now I will be repeating that about 6 weeks after I get the bike back. 

That's BS, MG should pick up the tab.
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Offline O

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Re: Problems With 6-Speed V7's
« Reply #75 on: March 04, 2017, 03:18:45 PM »
Ok, so this exactly the situation I am in right now.  My V7ii Stone had the problem occur at 1024 miles.  The dealer first told me that I had misadjusted the clutch cable, of course I had never touched the clutch cable.  Then I was told it would take a week to get a tool to measure for a misalignment of the shaft.  Then the next day they said the "Motor Guzzi" contact had said the whole engine would need to be replaced.  I'm into a week and a half without my bike which is also my daily driver so I'm not thrilled.  What really burns me is that the dealer just charged me 440 dollars for my 1k service, and now I will be repeating that about 6 weeks after I get the bike back.  What really bothers me is that the service department used the wrong oil during the change compared to what the service manual calls for, and then the service manager doesnt even know the correct name of the brand.  And it's 74 degrees out today and I'm staring at my helmet longingly dreaming of riding the twisties.  Thanks for listening to my mini-rant.

Ouch.  You listed about 5 reasons not to return to that dealer.  Perhaps a ride to an alternative is in order? 

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=81314.0
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Offline SportsterDoc

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Re: Problems With 6-Speed V7's
« Reply #76 on: March 04, 2017, 03:24:30 PM »
What really bothers me is that the service department used the wrong oil during the change compared to what the service manual calls for, and then the service manager doesnt even know the correct name of the brand.

Wrong grade of oil or different brand?
What was used where?
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Offline SportsterDoc

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Re: Problems With 6-Speed V7's
« Reply #77 on: March 04, 2017, 03:28:01 PM »
Ouch.  You listed about 5 reasons not to return to that dealer.  Perhaps a ride to an alternative is in order? 

Good suggestion, but some of us have few options.

For me, alternatives are Phoenix or Chandler, AZ 300+ miles, Thousand Oaks, 300+ miles.
St. George, Utah is only about 120 miles, but that dealer is not shown on the current map.
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Offline Markinlv

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Re: Problems With 6-Speed V7's
« Reply #78 on: March 04, 2017, 03:37:34 PM »
Wrong grade of oil or different brand?
What was used where?

Wrong grade, used 10w-50 in engine oil as opposed for MG recommended 10w/60.  I asked about it and the service manager was just condescending.  If I felt more confident or could find a good video on checking valve clearence I would just do it myself.

Offline Markinlv

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Re: Problems With 6-Speed V7's
« Reply #79 on: March 04, 2017, 03:43:34 PM »
Good suggestion, but some of us have few options.

For me, alternatives are Phoenix or Chandler, AZ 300+ miles, Thousand Oaks, 300+ miles.
St. George, Utah is only about 120 miles, but that dealer is not shown on the current map.

Ah, we are in the same area.  I'm almost to the point where a trip down the 15 to SoCal would be worth it to not have to deal with this service department.  I did not know that St. George had a dealer, will file that away in my mental bank.  The sad part is that as much as the dealer frustrates me the Guzzi is my pride and joy and I love it dearly.

Offline O

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Re: Problems With 6-Speed V7's
« Reply #80 on: March 04, 2017, 03:44:10 PM »
Fair enough regarding the distance to an alternative, but I suppose you could make that into a nice day trip or overnight if so inclined.  I'm lucky enough to have 2 great dealers within about 65 miles of me, but regardless of proximity, I couldn't return to an incompetent dealer that blamed me for a problem I wasn't responsible for. 

The beauty of these bikes is that the maintenance schedule isn't all that demanding.  For the first gen single TB V7, it's at 600 and 6200 miles, then every 6200 miles after that if memory serves.  Not sure if that has changed for the later generations.
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Offline Markinlv

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Re: Problems With 6-Speed V7's
« Reply #81 on: March 04, 2017, 03:57:33 PM »
Fair enough regarding the distance to an alternative, but I suppose you could make that into a nice day trip or overnight if so inclined.  I'm lucky enough to have 2 great dealers within about 65 miles of me, but regardless of proximity, I couldn't return to an incompetent dealer that blamed me for a problem I wasn't responsible for. 

The beauty of these bikes is that the maintenance schedule isn't all that demanding.  For the first gen single TB V7, it's at 600 and 6200 miles, then every 6200 miles after that if memory serves.  Not sure if that has changed for the later generations.

I'm tempted, there is a dealer in Malibu that has an Airbnb-type rental as well as half of MG rental while service is being done.  Never ridden the canyons before.

Offline Socalrob

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Re: Problems With 6-Speed V7's
« Reply #82 on: March 04, 2017, 04:28:54 PM »
I'm tempted, there is a dealer in Malibu that has an Airbnb-type rental as well as half of MG rental while service is being done.  Never ridden the canyons before.

As a long time socal rider I can assure you that you would have loads of fun doing the rental.

I personally prefer Angeles Crest to the Santa Monica Mountains, but Angeles Crest is practically my driveway. 

Another option would be Pro Italia in Montrose, CA.  They are within a few miles of Angeles Crest Highway.  They normally have some used Guzzis, and just might not be opposed to a 3 hour test ride while your repairs are being done.  3 hours gets you up and down the crest in some glorious riding.

And finally, with your living in Las Vegas, I would definitely want that 10-60 weight full synthetic.  That a Vegas dealer does not use that oil all the time in any air cooled bike is bothersome to me.

I've taken BMW's on 150 mile test rides.  Not sure what Pro Italia's policies are.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2017, 04:33:04 PM by Socalrob »

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Re: Problems With 6-Speed V7's
« Reply #83 on: March 04, 2017, 04:32:09 PM »
ANY dealer that deviates from the factory recommended service requirements had better have a buttload of evidence supporting their choice... :cool:

Offline Kent in Upstate NY

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Re: Problems With 6-Speed V7's
« Reply #84 on: March 04, 2017, 04:39:59 PM »
I'm tempted, there is a dealer in Malibu that has an Airbnb-type rental as well as half of MG rental while service is being done.  Never ridden the canyons before.
There is a dealer in Thousand Oaks just north of Malibu. I don't think the guy in Malibu is a dealer.
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Offline SportsterDoc

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Re: Problems With 6-Speed V7's
« Reply #85 on: March 04, 2017, 04:55:22 PM »
Wrong grade, used 10w-50 in engine oil as opposed for MG recommended 10w/60.  I asked about it and the service manager was just condescending.  If I felt more confident or could find a good video on checking valve clearence I would just do it myself.

Service manager = Todd?
How did you discover the grade difference?
Tiffany told me that they "cannot get" AGIP/Eni and use Motoul, but the grade difference is a surprise.
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Offline SportsterDoc

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Re: Problems With 6-Speed V7's
« Reply #86 on: March 04, 2017, 05:10:33 PM »
Ah, we are in the same area.  I'm almost to the point where a trip down the 15 to SoCal would be worth it to not have to deal with this service department.  I did not know that St. George had a dealer, will file that away in my mental bank.  The sad part is that as much as the dealer frustrates me the Guzzi is my pride and joy and I love it dearly.

Not certain about St. George. as it is NOT on the dealer map on this forum.

http://www.powersportstv.com/dealers/4356745664/Guzzi-St.-George/

Will check it out on my next trip to Zion National Park..or just call them.

Mark, when did you buy your V7 II?
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Offline sib

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Re: Problems With 6-Speed V7's
« Reply #87 on: March 04, 2017, 05:12:51 PM »
Service manager = Todd?
How did you discover the grade difference?
Tiffany told me that they "cannot get" AGIP/Eni and use Motoul, but the grade difference is a surprise.
AGIP/eni has a US distributor that will be happy to sell it to them, and even sells small quantities to non-dealers.  And if your "dealer" can't seem to get it from the distributor (maybe their credit is bad), they can bloody well buy it from AF1 Racing.
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Offline SportsterDoc

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Re: Problems With 6-Speed V7's
« Reply #88 on: March 04, 2017, 05:13:33 PM »
I'm tempted, there is a dealer in Malibu that has an Airbnb-type rental as well as half of MG rental while service is being done.  Never ridden the canyons before.

Born in Los Angeles, raised in San Fernando Valley, raised kids in Simi Valley.
I could give you a long list of canyons to ride.
One of the things I miss about SoCal.
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Offline SportsterDoc

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Re: Problems With 6-Speed V7's
« Reply #89 on: March 04, 2017, 05:22:53 PM »
AGIP/eni has a US distributor that will be happy to sell it to them, and even sells small quantities to non-dealers.  And if your "dealer" can't seem to get it from the distributor (maybe their credit is bad), they can bloody well buy it from AF1 Racing.

Now I have a dilemma. I can easily do all the first service..although the "service manual" does not list head bolt torque...or I did not find it.
Well, maybe not easily, as the older I get, doing work on the garage floor is it quite as easy as it was when I was 16...54 years ago.
...and putting it on a lift, makes it easy to turn the rear tire to get to TDC to adjust valves.
Part of the list is to check plug gap, which I have already done...but the plugs should come out for TDC, anyway..although seeing the valves closed may suffice.

Main purpose of going to the dealer was to establish a relationship, should there be a warranty issue.
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